From China with Love [G80, R600 and G81 info]

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

imported_Crusader

Senior member
Feb 12, 2006
899
0
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: apoppin
FACT: nvidia IS the little guy now

FACT: NVIDIA is the ONLY guy now.

ATI is gone, nothing more than a brand name and soon nothing more than a label printed on an intergrated chipset from AMD.

The R600 will be the last high end card from ATI.

just because you post the same ridiculous lie a thousand times doesn't make it true
:thumbsdown:

LIE?
LOL! Is that how passionate you are about denying ATIs demise that already took place??

Hes right even if its in the sense that ATI as you knew it.. is gone forever. :)
But the odds are looking like hes right in as well, in the sense that AMD probably wont fight a brutal two-war front.. one that ATI was losing alone.. and AMDs war against Intel required more resources (ATI) to successfully continue with.

PROOOoooooobably- NOT a good chance of seeing AMD dump any large resources into that.. and without massive resources.. NV is going to win easy.

You're looking at decent or mediocre cards from AMD here on out, old man.
Hope you enjoy cheering for 2nd place. :)
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Crusader
Originally posted by: apoppin
and i am done debating anything with you . . . you lack the ability to hold a coherent debate nor do you have any knowledge of what you post as fact

aloha

LOL! Who lacks the ability to hold a coherant debate Mr. Back Out When Things Get Heated?
Hey Im MORE than willing to explain to you why you are dead wrong kid.
But you back down when you are right? Wow! You MUST be right!!! Thats fine, move along.

no . . . you have already proven to be completely useless in a debate . . . one who constantly posts personal attacks, talks trash about other people and companies, constantly brags about his computer, puts other people down . . . and worst of all when the facts are presented, runs away.

i can't debate with someone i have no respect for personally . . . and zero respect for your opinion . . .

i can't bother replying to your silly posts anymore - i previously indicated i would 'ignore' you when you first showed up to defend Rollo in the AEG scandal - and i am truly sorry i accidently replied to your post in this thread in the first place . . . i thought it was someone else.
:Q

my mistake
:eek:

 

imported_Crusader

Senior member
Feb 12, 2006
899
0
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Crusader
Originally posted by: apoppin
and i am done debating anything with you . . . you lack the ability to hold a coherent debate nor do you have any knowledge of what you post as fact

aloha

LOL! Who lacks the ability to hold a coherant debate Mr. Back Out When Things Get Heated?
Hey Im MORE than willing to explain to you why you are dead wrong kid.
But you back down when you are right? Wow! You MUST be right!!! Thats fine, move along.

no . . . you have already proven to be completely useless in a debate . . . one who constantly posts personal attacks, talks trash about other people and companies, constantly brags about his computer, puts other people down . . . and worst of all when the facts are presented, runs away.

No ones running from you old man. You dont have a clue, and you're under attack for your views that have no basis in logic or fact at all.

You present facts for me and I'll make sure your "facts" are disproven.. if you're right you're right.. but you havent been thus far in this thread.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Yeah, I really do believe this R600 is ATI's last call. Or at the most, second to last. R&D goes back a few years, so we may see a 620/680 whatevertheycallit.
 

Jodiuh

Senior member
Oct 25, 2005
287
1
81
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
ATI just got a parent that has lots of business know-how and they just got a MASSIVE infusion of R&D and cash resources. To a degree that NVDA could only dream of.

I thought NV was bigger than AMD?

EDIT: Damn, I thought this thread was only a page...
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Yeah, I really do believe this R600 is ATI's last call. Or at the most, second to last. R&D goes back a few years, so we may see a 620/680 whatevertheycallit.

and then what?


Then I think they (AMD) will focus on the integrated marketshare pie. Not saying they wont be nice pieces of silicon, but the glory days, I feel, are close to an end. And not just for ATI.
There will be "The big 3". Intel, AMD, Nvidia all competing in the CPU/GPU market. That is where things will go pretty soon. How successful Nvidia will be against the likes of Intel and AMD remains to be seen. Very shaky ground, but I don't see nvidia with much of a choice here. Damned if they do, or don't. My 2 cents.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Yeah, I really do believe this R600 is ATI's last call. Or at the most, second to last. R&D goes back a few years, so we may see a 620/680 whatevertheycallit.

and then what?


Then I think they (AMD) will focus on the integrated marketshare pie. Not saying they wont be nice pieces of silicon, but the glory days, I feel, are close to an end. And not just for ATI.
There will be "The big 3". Intel, AMD, Nvidia all competing in the CPU/GPU market. That is where things will go pretty soon. How successful Nvidia will be against the likes of Intel and AMD remains to be seen. Very shaky ground, but I don't see nvidia with much of a choice here. Damned if they do, or don't. My 2 cents.

do you really think they will sacrifice high-end graphics for integrated graphics?
:Q

what about the high end? . . . AMD says they don't like to have to go to a monopoly [nvidia].
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
Crusader was correct with the NV10 or NVIO chip. A chinese site backs up his source. I created a new thread based on the chinese sites preview of G80. Abit more info.
 

redbox

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2005
1,021
0
0
Originally posted by: Crusader
Originally posted by: redbox
Originally posted by: Crusader
but Intel could probably pull it off if anyone could. But a partnership makes a lot of sense, if even to simply as a means for Intel to hurt AMD by starving off the popular Nforce and SLI options.

I hear that RD600 is supposted to own Nvidia's chips for conroe. If that is true I will have no reason to buy from Nvidia.

I kind of find the merger between ATI/AMD to be a good thing. ATI gets to use the fabs of AMD and Nvidia will still be using TSCM or whatever it's called. Why would Nvidia be looking toward cpu's if they didn't see this merger as a posible risk? But to each his own. I am sure you will have another cheer to do about this.

Cheers to some interesting times!

ATI is still using TSMC for R600. AMD barely has enough capacity for their own product and are constantly expanding as quickly as they can.

Yep that is the rumor but the fabs are there to use in the future and their not there for Nvidia right now. Unless of course Nvidia sells out. You are correct they are constantly expanding as quickly as they can, so why wouldn't this constant expansion lead to fab for gpu chips. They are already looking at producing a mix of the two in the form of Fusion Granted this tech looks a ways off but I still find it groundbreaking. Hardly the stuff I would see a falling company coming up with. Read the comments it really is an interesting article. I beleive this take over or sell out or whatever you want to call it is a little more complex than ATI leaving the market completely. The impact this merger will have on the market is yet to be seen and I would shy away from making outlandish claims as seams your forte. But like I said to each there own. You really really like Nvidia and that is fine. Just trying to point out some things on the horizon that i think might be a little bit different from the Nvidia owned gpu market you seam to invision.

The real question with some of this Fusion stuff is, like they said in the article, how would you match your cpu and gpu needs to your system? Are they going to have a ton of cpu/gpu's to pick from? What about the memory it will use? How will software work with it? There are alot of unknowns about it and it is kind of beyond the scope of this thread to talk about them. Perhaps I should start a thread just on Fusion if there isn't one, i haven't really checked yet.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: apoppin



Then I think they (AMD) will focus on the integrated marketshare pie. Not saying they wont be nice pieces of silicon, but the glory days, I feel, are close to an end. And not just for ATI.
There will be "The big 3". Intel, AMD, Nvidia all competing in the CPU/GPU market. That is where things will go pretty soon. How successful Nvidia will be against the likes of Intel and AMD remains to be seen. Very shaky ground, but I don't see nvidia with much of a choice here. Damned if they do, or don't. My 2 cents.

do you really think they will sacrifice high-end graphics for integrated graphics?
:Q

what about the high end? . . . AMD says they don't like to have to go to a monopoly [nvidia].[/quote]

Intel has made billions off of their integrated graphics chipsets. Good chance that AMD knows this ;) and I would imagine AMD is more interested (ultimately) in that money source rather than the Uber high end discrete graphics margins. More money to be made in mainstream/value/budget. I won't speculate any further on this, because so very much can and will happen over the next few years, and even that will change constantly.

 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: apoppin



Then I think they (AMD) will focus on the integrated marketshare pie. Not saying they wont be nice pieces of silicon, but the glory days, I feel, are close to an end. And not just for ATI.
There will be "The big 3". Intel, AMD, Nvidia all competing in the CPU/GPU market. That is where things will go pretty soon. How successful Nvidia will be against the likes of Intel and AMD remains to be seen. Very shaky ground, but I don't see nvidia with much of a choice here. Damned if they do, or don't. My 2 cents.

do you really think they will sacrifice high-end graphics for integrated graphics?
:Q

what about the high end? . . . AMD says they don't like to have to go to a monopoly [nvidia].

Intel has made billions off of their integrated graphics chipsets. Good chance that AMD knows this ;) and I would imagine AMD is more interested (ultimately) in that money source rather than the Uber high end discrete graphics margins. More money to be made in mainstream/value/budget. I won't speculate any further on this, because so very much can and will happen over the next few years, and even that will change constantly.

[/quote]

please don't forget that the high end drives the market

having the performance crown validates your entire gfx line.

AMD knows about performance crowns ;)

i think AMD is aiming higher than just "integrated graphics" . . . they are looking to take the development of the the hybred cpu-gpu to a new level.

i don't think high end graphics will get neglected a bit....crossfire is not gonna dissappear nor will it fail to be a worthy competitor to what even nvidia does.

and of course, we'll see

no point in arguing about uncertainties
 

josh6079

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2006
3,261
0
0
Yep that is the rumor but the fabs are there to use in the future and their not there for Nvidia right now. Unless of course Nvidia sells out. You are correct they are constantly expanding as quickly as they can, so why wouldn't this constant expansion lead to fab for gpu chips. They are already looking at producing a mix of the two in the form of Fusion Granted this tech looks a ways off but I still find it groundbreaking. Hardly the stuff I would see a falling company coming up with. Read the comments it really is an interesting article. I beleive this take over or sell out or whatever you want to call it is a little more complex than ATI leaving the market completely. The impact this merger will have on the market is yet to be seen and I would shy away from making outlandish claims as seams your forte. But like I said to each there own. You really really like Nvidia and that is fine. Just trying to point out some things on the horizon that i think might be a little bit different from the Nvidia owned gpu market you seam to invision.

The real question with some of this Fusion stuff is, like they said in the article, how would you match your cpu and gpu needs to your system? Are they going to have a ton of cpu/gpu's to pick from? What about the memory it will use? How will software work with it? There are alot of unknowns about it and it is kind of beyond the scope of this thread to talk about them. Perhaps I should start a thread just on Fusion if there isn't one, i haven't really checked yet.
QFT. Because of what DAMIT is doing, the traditional computer layout is going to be getting a face-lift in the near future I believe. Nvidia wouldn't be bothering with constructing a CPU if they didn't feel the industry was going to be heading that direction.
 

nrb

Member
Feb 22, 2006
75
0
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
Evidence
The Inquirer is not a reliable source. It's a matter of record that (for example) ATI engineers when they are bored will ring up people from The Inquirer and then compete with each other to see which of them can get The Inq to publish the most ridiculous false story.

...AMD had looked for some time at spreading its wings into the graphics arena, but concluded that it was better to approach a firm like ATI which had immense expertise in that marketplace. He said that the only rational way to approach that market was to take that approach.

...if you looked at the graphics and CPU market for PCs, there had been five to 10 companies which tried to enter the GPU business and the same sort of number attempted entry into the CPU business too. But that has consolidated into two or three firms in both sectors which suited AMD customers very well. A monopoly didn't suit PC manufacturers, who like to be able to choose which components they use and play the price and performance game.

It's too early to say how AMD's acquisition of ATI will shake out, said Hester, but there were unlikely to be too many redundancies. It continued to be a partner and to work with Nvidia and it was likely that AMD will continue to use the ATI brand in the AMD portfolio
Perhaps you could point out where, in that quote, there is a reference to the high-end graphics market, as distinct from the graphics market in general...? Is AMD interested in the GPU market? Yes, absolutely - there's a lot of money to be made in integrated GPUs. That's not the same thing as being interested in the high-end market.

Originally posted by: apoppin
it stands to reason that to have graphics solutions that compete with intel and nvidia would require persuing high-end grapics in addition to integrated gfx....
True - but who says AMD wants to compete with Nvidia? That's the whole point of what some of us are saying: AMD doesn't want to compete with Nvidia. It wants to compete with Intel. And it swallowed ATI to help it compete with Intel.


On a more general note, and aimed at a number of people....

1) Nobody is suggesting that ATI will stop making graphics products. What some people (including me) are suggesting is that ATI will no longer compete directly against Nvidia in the high-end market.

2) People need to understand the distinction between revenue and profit. ATI's high-end chips bring in a lot of money - but they don't bring in a lot of profit. On the contrary, they are effectively subsidised by ATI's other divisions. AMD has no interest in perpertuating a market segment that causes it to lose money. AMD will make more profit by staying out of the high-end market than it will by staying in.

3) If I and others are predicting that R600 will be ATI's last high-end graphics product, this does not mean that we hate ATI. On the contrary: I am immensely depressed about the possibility of ATI abandoning the high-end market. If Nvidia acquires a de facto monopoly in that space, it'll be very bad for consumers. But the fact that I might want ATI to keep on making high-end chips, doesn't mean it will actually happen. AMD is not a philanthropic organisation. It doesn't care if you end having to pay $1000 for a video card because there's no one but Nvidia in the market. It has no interest in helping to bring down the price of components.
 

Nelsieus

Senior member
Mar 11, 2006
330
0
0
Originally posted by: nrb
Originally posted by: apoppin
Evidence
The Inquirer is not a reliable source. It's a matter of record that (for example) ATI engineers when they are bored will ring up people from The Inquirer and then compete with each other to see which of them can get The Inq to publish the most ridiculous false story.

...AMD had looked for some time at spreading its wings into the graphics arena, but concluded that it was better to approach a firm like ATI which had immense expertise in that marketplace. He said that the only rational way to approach that market was to take that approach.

...if you looked at the graphics and CPU market for PCs, there had been five to 10 companies which tried to enter the GPU business and the same sort of number attempted entry into the CPU business too. But that has consolidated into two or three firms in both sectors which suited AMD customers very well. A monopoly didn't suit PC manufacturers, who like to be able to choose which components they use and play the price and performance game.

It's too early to say how AMD's acquisition of ATI will shake out, said Hester, but there were unlikely to be too many redundancies. It continued to be a partner and to work with Nvidia and it was likely that AMD will continue to use the ATI brand in the AMD portfolio
Perhaps you could point out where, in that quote, there is a reference to the high-end graphics market, as distinct from the graphics market in general...? Is AMD interested in the GPU market? Yes, absolutely - there's a lot of money to be made in integrated GPUs. That's not the same thing as being interested in the high-end market.

Originally posted by: apoppin
it stands to reason that to have graphics solutions that compete with intel and nvidia would require persuing high-end grapics in addition to integrated gfx....
True - but who says AMD wants to compete with Nvidia? That's the whole point of what some of us are saying: AMD doesn't want to compete with Nvidia. It wants to compete with Intel. And it swallowed ATI to help it compete with Intel.


On a more general note, and aimed at a number of people....

1) Nobody is suggesting that ATI will stop making graphics products. What some people (including me) are suggesting is that ATI will no longer compete directly against Nvidia in the high-end market.

2) People need to understand the distinction between revenue and profit. ATI's high-end chips bring in a lot of money - but they don't bring in a lot of profit. On the contrary, they are effectively subsidised by ATI's other divisions. AMD has no interest in perpertuating a market segment that causes it to lose money. AMD will make more profit by staying out of the high-end market than it will by staying in.

3) If I and others are predicting that R600 will be ATI's last high-end graphics product, this does not mean that we hate ATI. On the contrary: I am immensely depressed about the possibility of ATI abandoning the high-end market. If Nvidia acquires a de facto monopoly in that space, it'll be very bad for consumers. But the fact that I might want ATI to keep on making high-end chips, doesn't mean it will actually happen. AMD is not a philanthropic organisation. It doesn't care if you end having to pay $1000 for a video card because there's no one but Nvidia in the market. It has no interest in helping to bring down the price of components.

QFT

Also, apopin, let's not forget the integrated market largely outweighs the discrete desktop, which is why Intel continues to be the number one supplier of graphics. This, is the arena AMD wants to compete with. Not a smaller, nich market that nVidia seems to be covering and has no sign of letting up on. I think nrb explained this well (better than I could :p ).

Staying on top of the graphics industry is very expensive, almost as much so as the CPU world. It would be a huge shift in AMD's buisness plan to begin pouring as much R&D previously poured in by ATI, and then to persistently sustain that involvement. It just isn't logical, imo, and ultimately un-necesary with their CPU / GPU fusion plans, which would end up most beneficial in the long run. And when we're talking about this CPU / GPU fused chip, keep in mind, the graphics power will not rival anything on the highend, or even mid-range at the time from an independant graphics manuf. (such as nV). So even though AMD still is obviously pursuing GPU development for their fusion project, we're not talking Radeon x1800XT / Geforce 7800GTX power there.

I'm not doubting that we'll still see some discrete GPUs in the future from the new AMD/ATI (after R600), just nothing above the $249 segment. That's my prediction, atleast, and I'm glad you acknowledge that most of your points are "uncertain" at this point.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
lots of 'points' all around [yeah, i DO read everything but the flames] :)

i have not changed my belief that ATi will continue to do what it does best .... compete with nvidia . . . and also support AMD in it's new direction

i seriously doubt that they will give up the 'high end' . . . AMD will not accept 2nd best nor buying GPUs from a monopoly....i see the acquisiton of ATi by AMD as a 'good thing' . . . as companies, they are 'similar' and it looks like a 'good marriage'

but then there is nothing i can post that will change your mind . . . nor anything you can show that will change mine ...

i do agree that GENERALLY theInq is not a good source . . . however, they DO have a "relationship" with ATi and do get a lot of ATi news right - especially when they are invited to ATi 'events' . . . much less reliable on reporting nvidia news.

so i will agree to disagree with you . . . again
[big deal]

and we'll see ;)
[for sure]

EDIT: Speaking of theInq:

Nvidia should bundle free cases with giant cards
Geforce 8800 GTX card could be the biggest card ever, we are not sure about 7900 GX2 as we never had those in our hands. 8800 GTX is 28 centimetres long. In comparison, we measured the Radeon X1950 XTX card the highest end ATI and it is 23.5 centimetres long.

The cooler is four centimetres thick, takes both slots and Nvidia uses the same coolers on both cards. Both cards are 12.5 centimetres high, as this is the standard for all the ATX cards.

GTS is shorter at 24 centimetres roughly the size of X1950XTX. It has only one power plug. There is 1.9 centimetres space from the back of the cooler to the end of the card. GTX is 4.5 centimetres from the back of the cooler till the end of the card. GTX also has two power plugs based on the top of the card, just next to cooler. It will be easy to plug the power from the top of the card.

:D
 

Nelsieus

Senior member
Mar 11, 2006
330
0
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
lots of 'points' all around [yeah, i DO read everything but the flames] :)

i have not changed my belief that ATi will continue to do what it does best .... compete with nvidia . . . and also support AMD in it's new direction

i seriously doubt that they will give up the 'high end' . . . AMD will not accept 2nd best nor buying GPUs from a monopoly....i see the acquisiton of ATi by AMD as a 'good thing' . . . as companies, they are 'similar' and it looks like a 'good marriage'

but then there is nothing i can post that will change your mind . . . nor anything you can show that will change mine ...

i do agree that GENERALLY theInq is not a good source . . . however, they DO have a "relationship" with ATi and do get a lot of ATi news right - especially when they are invited to ATi 'events' . . . much less reliable on reporting nvidia news.

so i will agree to disagree with you . . . again
[big deal]

and we'll see ;)
[for sure]

Ok, fair enough. But remember what I said earlier; this is an aquisition of ATI, not an AMD / ATI merger.


 

Nelsieus

Senior member
Mar 11, 2006
330
0
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
it is an acquisition that ATi wanted

not a hostile takeover. ;)

more like a marriage

More than half of all marriges, in the US, end up in divorce. ;)

I'm not trying to predict anything, just applying the same logic you seem to be using to back up your claims.

You are omitting key economic facts from your assertions, and I'm afraid I don't have the time to teach you business 101.

Originally posted by: apoppinand see my "giant case" inq edit
[for fun]

And what does that have to do with anything with this topic? Or are you just trying to start something new since you realize you lost the current debate? (me thinks so)

Nelsieus
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Nelsieus
Originally posted by: apoppin
it is an acquisition that ATi wanted

not a hostile takeover. ;)

more like a marriage

More than half of all marriges, in the US, end up in divorce. ;)

I'm not trying to predict anything, just applying the same logic you seem to be using to back up your claims.

You are omitting key economic facts from your assertions, and I'm afraid I don't have the time to teach you business 101.

Originally posted by: apoppinand see my "giant case" inq edit
[for fun]

And what does that have to do with anything with this topic? Or are you just trying to start something new since you realize you lost the current debate? (me thinks so)

Nelsieus

i'm afraid you have no credentials to teach anyone 'economics'

and half of marriages are 'successful'.

letsee . . . what does my 'case' edit have to do with the topic?

From China with Love [G80, R600 and G81 info]
i guess the info 'fits" . . . even if the card mightn't/ :p

:D

change the subject? . . . i thought we were done with the 'future' discussion as there is nothing we agree on. :p


 

redbox

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2005
1,021
0
0
All this talk about AMD/ATI producing a high end gpu past R600 tech is a little moot if AMD pushes their fusion tech as much as their hyping it. I do think that Nelsieus is probably correct as well as some others that past R600 Nvidia will probably not have anyone to compete with. That is untill AMD brings about fusion. This would provide AMD a way to still compete in the high end graphic segment without having to loose a lot of revenue. Apoppin does have a point, with AMD's ambitions ATI is a rather good fit regardless of the means of takeover or merger. My question is just how far is AMD/ATI willing to take R600 will they stick just with the first card or are they going to do the refreashes also. It seams kind of silly to pour all that R&D into a card and then not take it to full term. Much of the ground work is already laid for them it would be rediculous not to take advantage of it.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,835
2,039
126
Originally posted by: redbox
This would provide AMD a way to still compete in the high end graphic segment without having to loose a lot of revenue. Apoppin does have a point, with AMD's ambitions ATI is a rather good fit regardless of the means of takeover or merger. My question is just how far is AMD/ATI willing to take R600 will they stick just with the first card or are they going to do the refreashes also. It seams kind of silly to pour all that R&D into a card and then not take it to full term. Much of the ground work is already laid for them it would be rediculous not to take advantage of it.

Fusion will be nowhere near the performance levels of discrete graphics though will it? I suppose they could use some of the tech in the Fusion and transplant it into a discrete card, and maybe they'll use some of the tech in R600 and put it into Fusion. That way they don't have to spend too much more on R&D for discrete graphics and so may be able to stay with it. As long as AMD/ATI stays with graphics at a general level I think it's feasible that they could continue to make discrete cards...maybe not in the very high end but at least in the mid-high end.
 

Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,171
13
81
Originally posted by: nrb
Is AMD interested in the GPU market? Yes, absolutely - there's a lot of money to be made in integrated GPUs. That's not the same thing as being interested in the high-end market.

If we follow that logic, then Nvidia shouldn't be interested in the high-end market either. But there's obviously money to be made at all levels of performance. Remember, the specs and features of today's flagship products will be found in tomorrow's mid and low end cards. So it's not as if all the money in R&D is going to waste.

And, as apoppin mentioned, a company will have increased sales throughout their whole lineup if their flagship product is recognized as the top performer. So there's yet another reason for AMD to continue producing high performance video cards that can compete directly with those from Nvidia.

This is already AMD's philosophy against Intel. And look at how quickly they grew after they released the Athlon. All the review sites declared AMD the performance winner, the enthusiasts jumped onboard with AMD and now AMD is a major player in the CPU market. Why would anybody think that they'll do anything differently with ATI? Just because they build performance CPUs doesn't mean they can't build performance GPUs as well.