For those who are against Universal Heath care. Why are you not for charging for other services?

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Red Irish
...and the land of the free and the home of the brave

[1st addendum: except when you fall ill and don't have enough money]

Before you spout nonsense, you should do your research. It is THE LAW that no one can be refused medical service. If you break your arm, the hospital ER MUST take you in and treat you. Regardless of whether you can pay or not.

It's part of the problem actually, because our hospitals are so overloaded with illegals who use the ER like a family doctor.

Sick people attending the doctor, immigrants on top of it all, what is the world coming to?

Again with the straw men and the red herrings.

It's not attending the doctor...it's the EMERGENCY ROOM, for emergencies, not a common cold.

It's not just immigrants. They are illegal...you know, breaking the law? The O-team loves to say that "this is a nation of laws!"

This stuff just doesn't just *poof* appear out of thin air. Somebody has to pay for it.

You are pointless to respond to. You never address the issues and instead try and send people off the trail with these emotional rabbit trails.

Actually, I was reading the post above about somone's uncle who had to pay for his own treatment after he had a heart attack and the insurance company refused to cover him: clearly a Straw Man/emotional rabbit trail.

If I am "pointless to respond to" stop responding to me

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Red Irish
...and the land of the free and the home of the brave

[1st addendum: except when you fall ill and don't have enough money]

Before you spout nonsense, you should do your research. It is THE LAW that no one can be refused medical service. If you break your arm, the hospital ER MUST take you in and treat you. Regardless of whether you can pay or not.

It's part of the problem actually, because our hospitals are so overloaded with illegals who use the ER like a family doctor.

Sick people attending the doctor, immigrants on top of it all, what is the world coming to?

Again with the straw men and the red herrings.

It's not attending the doctor...it's the EMERGENCY ROOM, for emergencies, not a common cold.

It's not just immigrants. They are illegal...you know, breaking the law? The O-team loves to say that "this is a nation of laws!"

This stuff just doesn't just *poof* appear out of thin air. Somebody has to pay for it.

You are pointless to respond to. You never address the issues and instead try and send people off the trail with these emotional rabbit trails.

Actually, I was reading the post above about somone's uncle who had to pay for his own treatment after he had a heart attack and the insurance company refused to cover him: clearly a Straw Man/emotional rabbit trail.

If I am "pointless to respond to" stop responding to me

Nice backpedal, but you clearly quoted and addressed *MY* post.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Red Irish
...and the land of the free and the home of the brave

[1st addendum: except when you fall ill and don't have enough money]

Before you spout nonsense, you should do your research. It is THE LAW that no one can be refused medical service. If you break your arm, the hospital ER MUST take you in and treat you. Regardless of whether you can pay or not.

It's part of the problem actually, because our hospitals are so overloaded with illegals who use the ER like a family doctor.

Sick people attending the doctor, immigrants on top of it all, what is the world coming to?

Again with the straw men and the red herrings.

It's not attending the doctor...it's the EMERGENCY ROOM, for emergencies, not a common cold.

It's not just immigrants. They are illegal...you know, breaking the law? The O-team loves to say that "this is a nation of laws!"

This stuff just doesn't just *poof* appear out of thin air. Somebody has to pay for it.

You are pointless to respond to. You never address the issues and instead try and send people off the trail with these emotional rabbit trails.

Actually, I was reading the post above about somone's uncle who had to pay for his own treatment after he had a heart attack and the insurance company refused to cover him: clearly a Straw Man/emotional rabbit trail.

If I am "pointless to respond to" stop responding to me

Nice backpedal, but you clearly quoted and addressed *MY* post.

after you felt the need to comment upon mine

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Slick5150
Whose ass did you pull that out of? Americans go overseas in droves trying to find better and more affordable health care for a number of different reasons.

I was recently traveling through SE Asia and wound up having to goto a hospital in Thailand. It was a FAR better experience than any hospital visit I've ever had here in the U.S. There were at least 3 times the amount of hospital staff working, the doctor was extremely knowledgeable and friendly, and best of all, I was in his office getting checked on within 15 minutes of walking in the door off the street.

Pot, meet Kettle.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: Pulsar

Originally posted by: smashp
Its Funny when UHC is brought up, nobody mentions Germany or the Nordic countries, they always mention the failures

Perhaps, is that because:

#1 Germany's health care system is on the verge of collapse
#2 Those "Nordic" countries that you're talking about are most likely 1. Norway. And guess what? They get a huge portion of their health care money and their educational money from oil. Not taxes.

Between you, sandorksi, and the other folks here who haven't the faintest clue what they're talking about, it's no surprise our country can't get our of their own way when they go to vote.

You make me laugh

You know what Pathetic is? A buddy of mine is a senior Bio chemist and has been looking for work for a couple on months. The Only offers he has gotten is for 1099 work. He finally took an 18 month deal for clinical test in Philly. The Pay was good, but no Benefits of course.

The Company was Merck.

THEY DONT EVEN WANT TO PAY FOR HEALTH BENEFITS. WTF DOES THAT TELL YOU

 

[BoberFett]

Police are local, paid for by local taxes. UHC is nationwide. Apples and oranges. Try again.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Police are local, paid for by local taxes. UHC is nationwide. Apples and oranges. Try again.

I was going to say that too...the OP was setting up a straw man argument anyway.

Popular tactics nowadays...

 

[Possessed Freak]

I paid for my police services this year. I got a speeding ticket...

As for paying for other services, I am absolutely for the privatization of schools, those that do not have kids should not support those who do (we already do that enough with other tax breaks related to kids and whatnot).

I prefer private health insurance, as it to me is no different then car insurance. You pay for the coverage you want and the risk you are willing to take. I do think there should be a minimal free form of healthcare but that form should not cover heart conditions for the obese, lung conditions for smokers, etc. If you make poor choices in life then don't expect others to pay for it (similar to my views on say... the bailouts). If you have lived a healthy life and still get some random disease, I don't have a problem with you getting treatment for free.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Police are local, paid for by local taxes. UHC is nationwide. Apples and oranges. Try again.

Taxes is taxes. Civilization needs it's basic healthcare the same as it needs police, firefighters, the Army, Air Force, Navy, etc., etc.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Police are local, paid for by local taxes. UHC is nationwide. Apples and oranges. Try again.

Taxes is taxes. Civilization needs it's basic healthcare the same as it needs police, firefighters, the Army, Air Force, Navy, etc., etc.

We also NEED food and shelter.. Should we provide those?

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Police are local, paid for by local taxes. UHC is nationwide. Apples and oranges. Try again.

Taxes is taxes. Civilization needs it's basic healthcare the same as it needs police, firefighters, the Army, Air Force, Navy, etc., etc.

We also NEED food and shelter.. Should we provide those?

Cars are also viewed by many as a necessity in today's society...let's provide those too!

Oh wait...some places already do!

http://www.bostonherald.com/ne...w.bg?articleid=1171939

And the people hate it...you know, the people who have to foot the bill...the actual taxpayers.

Somebody has to pay for all of these "free" programs. Where does it end? When everything is government subsidized and we pay 75% taxes? Of course, most of the recipients of these "free" programs don't pay taxes anyway, so why do they care?

FREE STUFF!

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Police are local, paid for by local taxes. UHC is nationwide. Apples and oranges. Try again.

Taxes is taxes.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

You, as a private citizen, could get in front of your local politicians to argue about how your taxes are going to be spent. City and county meetings are open forums.

What are your chances of getting in front of the US Congress and speaking in front of them?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I want to understand why anyone believes they would have free health care (excepting medicaid)

I once heard an nutjob back when Hillary was pushing for this say "People shouldn't pay for health care, the government should" I was dumbstruck. Since then I've gotten accustomed to the stupidity surrounding the myth of "free" health care, but have understood whatever failed reasoning they use.

 

[lokiju]

Why is it always the argument of "the rest of the world does xyz!"?

Who cares? Seriously.

We're America, the greatest country in the world and it's not because we started this country to be in the image of all others, we started it to get away from how things were done in others.

I just do not understand that line of thinking at all.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: lokiju
Why is it always the argument of "the rest of the world does xyz!"?

Who cares? Seriously.

We're America, the greatest country in the world and it's not because we started this country to be in the image of all others, we started it to get away from how things were done in others.

I just do not understand that line of thinking at all.

It is hard to believe that there are Americans who hate America, but it is true...

They don't believe that we are the greatest nation on Earth. They want to reduce us to the level of the rest of the world which hates us and is jealous of us.

It is very sad indeed.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: lokiju
Why is it always the argument of "the rest of the world does xyz!"?

Who cares? Seriously.

We're America, the greatest country in the world and it's not because we started this country to be in the image of all others, we started it to get away from how things were done in others.

I just do not understand that line of thinking at all.

It's an argument that can have merit at times, but when used in excess and trying to favorably compare countries that most people in this one don't want to live in nor hold in particularly high esteem to begin with, it has limitations. I prefer the US to the countries with UHC because what makes the US better is also what tends to minimize the expansiveness of UHC.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: lokiju
Why is it always the argument of "the rest of the world does xyz!"?

Who cares? Seriously.

We're America, the greatest country in the world and it's not because we started this country to be in the image of all others, we started it to get away from how things were done in others.

I just do not understand that line of thinking at all.

Your line of thinking is what's hard to understand. America is subject to the same Needs and Issues as everyone else. Why not look to see how Others have addressed(successfully) the Issues? Seems stupid to be different for the sake of being different.

 

[Arcex]

Originally posted by: lokiju
Why is it always the argument of "the rest of the world does xyz!"?

Who cares? Seriously.

We're America, the greatest country in the world and it's not because we started this country to be in the image of all others, we started it to get away from how things were done in others.

I just do not understand that line of thinking at all.

Once could argue that we used to be the best country in the world (depending on your criteria) but in recent years we have let our convictions and morals fall too steeply to still be in contention.

As to the main point, a country as great as ours used to be should have been able to put into place some kind of better than nothing basic service for those without insurance, but in our current economic situation we need to cut expenses and re-group before attempting something as ambitious as a UHC.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Food is a necessity.. more so than healthcare.. why do we not offer that for free? Shelter is a necessity.. shall we offer people free homes as well? In a free society we expect people to pay for most things themselves. In some areas people ARE charged for things like emergency response.

Poor analogy. Food and shelter costs are relatively constant and predictable, things people can budget for. That's why nobody gets food insurance, it's a ridiculous idea. Health care costs can vary wildly, from 50 dollars per year to literally millions. Very few people can budget for that. That is why we have health insurance. Unfortunately, for a variety of reasons, health care and health insurance costs have grown so high that many people -- and an increasing number of employers-- cannot afford them.

In fact, one of the strongest arguments for some sort of government-funded health insurance program is the increasing competitive disadvantage American companies face compared to their foreign competitors. I think that factor as much as anything is the reason why American UHC is an idea whose time has come.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Arcex

Originally posted by: lokiju
Why is it always the argument of "the rest of the world does xyz!"?

Who cares? Seriously.

We're America, the greatest country in the world and it's not because we started this country to be in the image of all others, we started it to get away from how things were done in others.

I just do not understand that line of thinking at all.

Once could argue that we used to be the best country in the world (depending on your criteria) but in recent years we have let our convictions and morals fall too steeply to still be in contention.

As to the main point, a country as great as ours used to be should have been able to put into place some kind of better than nothing basic service for those without insurance, but in our current economic situation we need to cut expenses and re-group before attempting something as ambitious as a UHC.

Now that is a line of thinking I can get behind. There are much bigger fish to fry right now than universal health care. This crash course of crazy changes is going to be a disaster for an already fragile economy...

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Why were you going to the doctor for something you only needed Tylenol and rest for anyway?

Friend of mine, he was coughing up large amounts of green mucus (probably had pneumonia). He scheduled an appointment with the doctor, It took him a week just to get in to see the GP. After a week of being fairly sick (and he was sick for a couple of weeks afterward) the GP looked him over for about 15 mins, didn't check for strep throat, pneumonia, or anything, just gave him the prescription and said he should be fine.

3 weeks of coughing is not normal.

Is he dead now? If not, sounds like a good call. No overpriced tests to diagnose something he'd get over anyway.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
I want to understand why anyone believes they would have free health care (excepting medicaid)

I once heard an nutjob back when Hillary was pushing for this say "People shouldn't pay for health care, the government should" I was dumbstruck. Since then I've gotten accustomed to the stupidity surrounding the myth of "free" health care, but have understood whatever failed reasoning they use.

People say that all the time, and I don't see how you can think that it would be considered 'free' from that statement. People also say that 'government should pay/provide for the defense of the country'. Do you think that implies that they believe the military is free?

 

[Arcex]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Why were you going to the doctor for something you only needed Tylenol and rest for anyway?

Friend of mine, he was coughing up large amounts of green mucus (probably had pneumonia). He scheduled an appointment with the doctor, It took him a week just to get in to see the GP. After a week of being fairly sick (and he was sick for a couple of weeks afterward) the GP looked him over for about 15 mins, didn't check for strep throat, pneumonia, or anything, just gave him the prescription and said he should be fine.

3 weeks of coughing is not normal.

Is he dead now? If not, sounds like a good call. No overpriced tests to diagnose something he'd get over anyway.

Honestly dain that's bad logic, neither you or I can know all the variables at play to make a determination like that.

In a nutshell there will always be examples of the best or the worst medical system failing someone, speaking from my personal experience duration should play a significant part of deciding advanced tests, that's why on pretty much any medication you can take for "flu like symptoms" they tell you to see a doctor if the symptoms persist for more than X period of time.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Police are local, paid for by local taxes. UHC is nationwide. Apples and oranges. Try again.

Taxes is taxes. Civilization needs it's basic healthcare the same as it needs police, firefighters, the Army, Air Force, Navy, etc., etc.

We also NEED food and shelter.. Should we provide those?

We already do for those that can't afford it, along with school, free luches, and even babysitting. Of course if all employers were to provide health care and pay enough money to keep people from qualifying for welfare you might have a point.

Try to keep up.

 

[Pulsar]

Originally posted by: smashp

Originally posted by: Pulsar

Originally posted by: smashp
Its Funny when UHC is brought up, nobody mentions Germany or the Nordic countries, they always mention the failures

Perhaps, is that because:

#1 Germany's health care system is on the verge of collapse
#2 Those "Nordic" countries that you're talking about are most likely 1. Norway. And guess what? They get a huge portion of their health care money and their educational money from oil. Not taxes.

Between you, sandorksi, and the other folks here who haven't the faintest clue what they're talking about, it's no surprise our country can't get our of their own way when they go to vote.

You make me laugh

You know what Pathetic is? A buddy of mine is a senior Bio chemist and has been looking for work for a couple on months. The Only offers he has gotten is for 1099 work. He finally took an 18 month deal for clinical test in Philly. The Pay was good, but no Benefits of course.

The Company was Merck.

THEY DONT EVEN WANT TO PAY FOR HEALTH BENEFITS. WTF DOES THAT TELL YOU

It tells me that you have trouble stringing coherent arguments together. How, exactly, does your spew have to do with refuting my comments about Germany or Norway's health care systems?

The standard for debate is not normally - present argument, have argument refuted, completely change topic with unrelated anecdote. Usually you attempt to defend your initial argument.