For those who are against Universal Heath care. Why are you not for charging for other services?

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet
Wow. Just wow. How can Americans be so ignorant?

That's not how UHC works at all.

My country has it and it works just fine. Our free health care is probably just as good as yours.

And our private healthcare sector is far superior to yours.

Oh, sorry, I forgot it was wrong to speak from personal experience. Next time Ill just assume that my health system MUST suck because other people are doing something different!

I would like to know how you arrived at the conclusion that your healthcare system is far superior to the American system. Last I checked there weren't large amounts of Americans flying to country x to have some procedure done on them.

People from other countrys in the region fly to Australia for healthcare aswell.

And of course America is on the cutting edge with heaps of new medical technologies etc. You have 300 million people. We have 21 million.

For our size we a large contributers to healthcare technology.

And I wasnt saying your system didn't provide good care. I meant as a 'system' it isn't very good.

Ok, my misunderstanding then.

Perhaps UHC in Australia is far superior to that of England's NHS, I wouldn't know that. However, I haven't heard a whole lot of good things about other UHCs in general (I had a brother spend 2 years in Belgium, he spent a considerable time in the hospital after eating some hazelnut chocolate).

For me, the system works well enough, and knowing current government by trying to implement UHC we would have much to loose and little to gain.

Not all UHC systems are created equal. There're definitly good ones and bad ones.

If you're going down the path of a single insurer, and keep the hospitals etc private, then it's going to be a disaster.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Docnasty
About 50 years ago people in America didn't use health insurance to go see a doctor when they were sick, or when they needed a prescription, or needed their teeth cleaned. Health insurance was just for having surgury or hospitol stays. Our health care was the envy of the world.

Health care cost too much now because of too much government intervention - too many idiotic regulations too abide by that take time and money. Example: There is a family doctor's office about 10 miles from where I live that does not accept medicare, medicade, or health insurance. A consultation only cost $29 dollars. The average for most family doctor's office visits is well over $100 dollars in most places. The other problem is malpractice insurance costs thousands of dollars a month for most health care providers. Too many people are lawsuit happy. The easy fix to this is to put a law to protect doctors from lawsuits - if the prosecution loses, they have to pay all legal fees for the doctor. Or something to that effect.

Anytime government sticks its nose in something it just makes it worse. If you don't think so you've been watching too much TV and not reading enough history books.

fail

 

[herm0016]

who here does not pay for police service? its called property taxes, they pay for police, fire, city council, the people who organize the elections etc... those that do not support uhc just don't want to have to pay for it as a tax, we want to pay for our own care, we don't want to pay for the care of others indirectly. Imho, if i feel i should help someone, I will help them directly, I don't need the government to be a middle man. a very simple, straight forward concept.

it is simply delusional to think that we don't pay for government services.

 

[Docnasty]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Docnasty
About 50 years ago people in America didn't use health insurance to go see a doctor when they were sick, or when they needed a prescription, or needed their teeth cleaned. Health insurance was just for having surgury or hospitol stays. Our health care was the envy of the world.

Health care cost too much now because of too much government intervention - too many idiotic regulations too abide by that take time and money. Example: There is a family doctor's office about 10 miles from where I live that does not accept medicare, medicade, or health insurance. A consultation only cost $29 dollars. The average for most family doctor's office visits is well over $100 dollars in most places. The other problem is malpractice insurance costs thousands of dollars a month for most health care providers. Too many people are lawsuit happy. The easy fix to this is to put a law to protect doctors from lawsuits - if the prosecution loses, they have to pay all legal fees for the doctor. Or something to that effect.

Anytime government sticks its nose in something it just makes it worse. If you don't think so you've been watching too much TV and not reading enough history books.

fail

Please elaborate.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: sandorski
:laugh:

That's your "experience", the government threatened to shut a Hospital down? Fail.

How about reading the rest of the post? The was one instance, and not an isolated one. I know at the time that there where several hospitals that where being closed down by Blare to save money.

The main point I was getting at is the health care was generally crappy. Even in the brand spankin' new Blackburn general hospital things that we take for granted (Like private rooms) are nonexistent.

Those are superficial criticisms. "Felt dirtier" for eg is just a matter of perception.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Docnasty

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Docnasty
About 50 years ago people in America didn't use health insurance to go see a doctor when they were sick, or when they needed a prescription, or needed their teeth cleaned. Health insurance was just for having surgury or hospitol stays. Our health care was the envy of the world.

Health care cost too much now because of too much government intervention - too many idiotic regulations too abide by that take time and money. Example: There is a family doctor's office about 10 miles from where I live that does not accept medicare, medicade, or health insurance. A consultation only cost $29 dollars. The average for most family doctor's office visits is well over $100 dollars in most places. The other problem is malpractice insurance costs thousands of dollars a month for most health care providers. Too many people are lawsuit happy. The easy fix to this is to put a law to protect doctors from lawsuits - if the prosecution loses, they have to pay all legal fees for the doctor. Or something to that effect.

Anytime government sticks its nose in something it just makes it worse. If you don't think so you've been watching too much TV and not reading enough history books.

fail

Please elaborate.

Life Expectancy has improved a lot in 50 years. Many ailments have been Cured and/or made much more survivable.

 

[Docnasty]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Docnasty

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Docnasty
About 50 years ago people in America didn't use health insurance to go see a doctor when they were sick, or when they needed a prescription, or needed their teeth cleaned. Health insurance was just for having surgury or hospitol stays. Our health care was the envy of the world.

Health care cost too much now because of too much government intervention - too many idiotic regulations too abide by that take time and money. Example: There is a family doctor's office about 10 miles from where I live that does not accept medicare, medicade, or health insurance. A consultation only cost $29 dollars. The average for most family doctor's office visits is well over $100 dollars in most places. The other problem is malpractice insurance costs thousands of dollars a month for most health care providers. Too many people are lawsuit happy. The easy fix to this is to put a law to protect doctors from lawsuits - if the prosecution loses, they have to pay all legal fees for the doctor. Or something to that effect.

Anytime government sticks its nose in something it just makes it worse. If you don't think so you've been watching too much TV and not reading enough history books.

fail

Please elaborate.

Life Expectancy has improved a lot in 50 years. Many ailments have been Cured and/or made much more survivable.

How does that have anything to do with the positive correlation of government involvment in health care and rising costs of health care? (The point of my post)

Improved technology, medicine, and hygene have resulted in longer life expectancies and treatments for illness/disease.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Docnasty

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Docnasty

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Docnasty
About 50 years ago people in America didn't use health insurance to go see a doctor when they were sick, or when they needed a prescription, or needed their teeth cleaned. Health insurance was just for having surgury or hospitol stays. Our health care was the envy of the world.

Health care cost too much now because of too much government intervention - too many idiotic regulations too abide by that take time and money. Example: There is a family doctor's office about 10 miles from where I live that does not accept medicare, medicade, or health insurance. A consultation only cost $29 dollars. The average for most family doctor's office visits is well over $100 dollars in most places. The other problem is malpractice insurance costs thousands of dollars a month for most health care providers. Too many people are lawsuit happy. The easy fix to this is to put a law to protect doctors from lawsuits - if the prosecution loses, they have to pay all legal fees for the doctor. Or something to that effect.

Anytime government sticks its nose in something it just makes it worse. If you don't think so you've been watching too much TV and not reading enough history books.

fail

Please elaborate.

Life Expectancy has improved a lot in 50 years. Many ailments have been Cured and/or made much more survivable.

How does that have anything to do with the positive correlation of government involvment in health care and rising costs of health care? (The point of my post)

Improved technology, medicine, and hygene have resulted in longer life expectancies and treatments for illness/disease.

It doesn't, because "Government involvement" is not the cause. Impproved Drugs, Diagnosis devices, and Treatments are the cause.

 

[smashp]

Its Funny when UHC is brought up, nobody mentions Germany or the Nordic countries, they always mention the failures

 

[Cuda1447]

As I said in another thread, more government, as a general rule, is a very very bad thing. ESPECIALLY with our government, the master of "fuck up everything I touch". If UHC is a PITA in England, you know our polifuckers will make it a hell of a lot worse.

 

[gingermeggs]

well, I'm an aussie who waited 3years to see an "gov" ENT for chronic tonsillitis.
gave up start of this year and pay a private doc. $2500 to chop em' still pay about $1800 to medicare in tax, so our system is far from being a good example- but if you a down and out or a illegal you get good service out of it comparatively. Now I'm no hotshot, I clear bout 45g after tax so really I see our system in a culture which is self-abusive a big fail ATM. What really fucks me up the most is we seen such a productive gain in clerical and administrative duties since the "IT" revolution, but no cost reduction from those gains, it's like they sucked up the gains into their public servant pay checks and left the "user" to pay.......again.
And ol'mate, most americans I've met personally tend to be well educated, well rounded culturally and ethically, so the only thing I'd really knock em' about is their financial engineering and their foreign policies over the last 3 decades, pretty much say the same for the pommes'

If you want to talk about good health systems which incorporate a safety net for the vulnerable in society and a cutting edge private system, I would talk Switzerland and Japan.
Your cobber, digger, mate!
Gingermeggs'

 

[Mursilis]

N/M - already answered.

 

[gingermeggs]

Maybe be you should GTFO of Maccy Dees?(mcdonalds)
sorry that's rude of me, but I hate how much resources are being squandered to the excessive, compulsive and abusing cultures in all our western countries. Here, we just stole your phat crown, here in cobber, digger, mate land(au).
Time people started eating fruit, vege and whole grain cereals again, I'd reckon!
You can led a horse to water, but you can't make em' drink
*as I gulp my low carb beer!

 

[gingermeggs]

and most of those are 3RD world, funny we got people that live here go to thailand for dental work.

 

[gingermeggs]

At the end of the day we keep propping up "low genetic" and we'll have a land full of sick cvnts.(no not nazi!)
The old pommie saying was "let nature take it's course".
ps- me dad, paw,dah, back in the day had tonsillitis as a kid, they chopped at first glance and he had none of the issues I had in his 30's
Back in the day that people could make a decision without lawyers trampin em' into the dirt that is.

 

[StageLeft]

The US is the only westernised country left which does not have some form of universal health care.

Really, what do you call medicaid?

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

The US is the only westernised country left which does not have some form of universal health care.

Really, what do you call medicaid?

And MediCare.

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Get back to us when you loose your insurance and need a tipple bypass.

How would one "loose" their insurance? How is getting health insurance any different then a gym membership? Should the government pay for every citizen to go to the gym? After all, many people can't afford a gym with which regular attendance would keep people from needing to use the health services in the first place.

My uncle lost his health insurance after he had a heart attack. They covered that, then they dropped him.

He owned his own small business, so did not have a large group plan you'd get from working from a large corp.

No one would cover him, so he ended up paying for all the subsequent angioplasties, stints, etc etc by himself. Forget about other things that happened, like getting a tumor later.

Basically all the medical costs bankrupted his business and he had to let go of all his employees and sell off the business assets (like equipment.)

He limped along for 10 years until he qualified for medicare, and now at least other problems are covered. Who knows how much of the problems he has now could have been avoided if he had been getting decent care previously. How many people can afford to pay $200K/yr in medical costs out of pocket if they have a serious illness and no insurance. Evil gov healthcare is the only thing that is saving his ass now.
BTW, my wife's family are Brits, and they deal w/ NHS. Its not perfect by any means, but ours sucks even more in many ways.


Our system is fucked up and it hurts businesses.

 

[Pulsar]

Originally posted by: smashp
Its Funny when UHC is brought up, nobody mentions Germany or the Nordic countries, they always mention the failures

Perhaps, is that because:

#1 Germany's health care system is on the verge of collapse
#2 Those "Nordic" countries that you're talking about are most likely 1. Norway. And guess what? They get a huge portion of their health care money and their educational money from oil. Not taxes.

Between you, sandorksi, and the other folks here who haven't the faintest clue what they're talking about, it's no surprise our country can't get our of their own way when they go to vote.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Pulsar

Originally posted by: smashp
Its Funny when UHC is brought up, nobody mentions Germany or the Nordic countries, they always mention the failures

Perhaps, is that because:

#1 Germany's health care system is on the verge of collapse
#2 Those "Nordic" countries that you're talking about are most likely 1. Norway. And guess what? They get a huge portion of their health care money and their educational money from oil. Not taxes.

Between you, sandorksi, and the other folks here who haven't the faintest clue what they're talking about, it's no surprise our country can't get our of their own way when they go to vote.

It's also funny, that supporters of Universal Health Care fail to mention any negatives like:

1. Cost
2. Rationing
3. The fact that the current government run health care, MediCare, is going to be bankrupt far faster than initially predicted. Yup, let's trust the gov'ment with running things efficiently, right?
4. The fact that for the best, top-of-the-line health care, people come to the United States. I wonder why that is...they leave their utopian universal health care system to come to the US for the best treatment...hmmm...

 

[Slick5150]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Pulsar

Originally posted by: smashp
Its Funny when UHC is brought up, nobody mentions Germany or the Nordic countries, they always mention the failures

Perhaps, is that because:

#1 Germany's health care system is on the verge of collapse
#2 Those "Nordic" countries that you're talking about are most likely 1. Norway. And guess what? They get a huge portion of their health care money and their educational money from oil. Not taxes.

Between you, sandorksi, and the other folks here who haven't the faintest clue what they're talking about, it's no surprise our country can't get our of their own way when they go to vote.

It's also funny, that supporters of Universal Health Care fail to mention any negatives like:

1. Cost
2. Rationing
3. The fact that the current government run health care, MediCare, is going to be bankrupt far faster than initially predicted. Yup, let's trust the gov'ment with running things efficiently, right?
4. The fact that for the best, top-of-the-line health care, people come to the United States. I wonder why that is...they leave their utopian universal health care system to come to the US for the best treatment...hmmm...

Whose ass did you pull that out of? Americans go overseas in droves trying to find better and more affordable health care for a number of different reasons.

I was recently traveling through SE Asia and wound up having to goto a hospital in Thailand. It was a FAR better experience than any hospital visit I've ever had here in the U.S. There were at least 3 times the amount of hospital staff working, the doctor was extremely knowledgeable and friendly, and best of all, I was in his office getting checked on within 15 minutes of walking in the door off the street.

 

[Red Irish]

...and the land of the free and the home of the brave

[1st addendum: except when you fall ill and don't have enough money]

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
...and the land of the free and the home of the brave

[1st addendum: except when you fall ill and don't have enough money]

Before you spout nonsense, you should do your research. It is THE LAW that no one can be refused medical service. If you break your arm, the hospital ER MUST take you in and treat you. Regardless of whether you can pay or not.

It's part of the problem actually, because our hospitals are so overloaded with illegals who use the ER like a family doctor.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Red Irish
...and the land of the free and the home of the brave

[1st addendum: except when you fall ill and don't have enough money]

Before you spout nonsense, you should do your research. It is THE LAW that no one can be refused medical service. If you break your arm, the hospital ER MUST take you in and treat you. Regardless of whether you can pay or not.

It's part of the problem actually, because our hospitals are so overloaded with illegals who use the ER like a family doctor.

Sick people attending the doctor, immigrants on top of it all, what is the world coming to?

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Red Irish
...and the land of the free and the home of the brave

[1st addendum: except when you fall ill and don't have enough money]

Before you spout nonsense, you should do your research. It is THE LAW that no one can be refused medical service. If you break your arm, the hospital ER MUST take you in and treat you. Regardless of whether you can pay or not.

It's part of the problem actually, because our hospitals are so overloaded with illegals who use the ER like a family doctor.

Sick people attending the doctor, immigrants on top of it all, what is the world coming to?

Again with the straw men and the red herrings.

It's not attending the doctor...it's the EMERGENCY ROOM, for emergencies, not a common cold.

It's not just immigrants. They are illegal...you know, breaking the law? The O-team loves to say that "this is a nation of laws!"

This stuff just doesn't just *poof* appear out of thin air. Somebody has to pay for it.

You are pointless to respond to. You never address the issues and instead try and send people off the trail with these emotional rabbit trails.