For those who are against Universal Heath care. Why are you not for charging for other services?

[Locut0s]

The US is the only westernised country left which does not have some form of universal health care. For those most of us living in other countries it's not something most would vote to give up. Both systems have their problems and no the problems are not small in any medical system but most public opinion polls still show that the vast majority of people would keep their universal systems.

The question is if you are against Universal Health care then why not make other services private too like the Police. People would have police "care" plans they pay a monthly bill for which would cover any expenses like calling 911, having police search for a suspect etc etc.. For those who do not have such a plan each person would be charged for services rendered.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Food is a necessity.. more so than healthcare.. why do we not offer that for free? Shelter is a necessity.. shall we offer people free homes as well? In a free society we expect people to pay for most things themselves. In some areas people ARE charged for things like emergency response.

 

[nageov3t]

without a structure in place to maintain law, we'd have anarchy.

without universal healthcare... we'd have some unlucky people having to declare bankruptcy occasionally but our society generally chugging along fine.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Food is a necessity.. more so than healthcare.. why do we not offer that for free? Shelter is a necessity.. shall we offer people free homes as well? In a free society we expect people to pay for most things themselves. In some areas people ARE charged for things like emergency response.

Correct, In my home town emergency response is payed for by the citizens (some even opted out of having it).

Most people that want universal care have never experienced it. It is garbage. Imagine that every time you get into a doctors office, the only prescription that you are given is "Take a Tylenol and get some rest." Imagine hospitals packed to the eye ball, no private rooms, and the government talking about cutting out hospitals in your area to save money.. Yeah, that sounds like fun.

And lets not forget that you are still paying for it. One way or another, you are paying for it.

 

[Locut0s]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Food is a necessity.. more so than healthcare.. why do we not offer that for free? Shelter is a necessity.. shall we offer people free homes as well? In a free society we expect people to pay for most things themselves. In some areas people ARE charged for things like emergency response.

Correct, In my home town emergency response is payed for by the citizens (some even opted out of having it).

Most people that want universal care have never experienced it. It is garbage. Imagine that every time you get into a doctors office, the only prescription that you are given is "Take a Tylenol and get some rest." Imagine hospitals packed to the eye ball, no private rooms, and the government talking about cutting out hospitals in your area to save money.. Yeah, that sounds like fun.

And lets not forget that you are still paying for it. One way or another, you are paying for it.

And your post shows you have never experienced it either. Like I said above there are problems with Universal Care and wait times are one but that stuff above is nonsense. I'm not arguing that it's the only solution or even necessarily the best but there is a reason that just about every westernised country has adopted it.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Food is a necessity.. more so than healthcare.. why do we not offer that for free? Shelter is a necessity.. shall we offer people free homes as well? In a free society we expect people to pay for most things themselves. In some areas people ARE charged for things like emergency response.

Correct, In my home town emergency response is payed for by the citizens (some even opted out of having it).

Most people that want universal care have never experienced it. It is garbage. Imagine that every time you get into a doctors office, the only prescription that you are given is "Take a Tylenol and get some rest." Imagine hospitals packed to the eye ball, no private rooms, and the government talking about cutting out hospitals in your area to save money.. Yeah, that sounds like fun.

And lets not forget that you are still paying for it. One way or another, you are paying for it.

And your post shows you have never experienced it either. Like I said above there are problems with Universal Care and wait times are one but that stuff above is nonsense. I'm not arguing that it's the only solution or even necessarily the best but there is a reason that just about every westernised country has adopted it.

Wrongo... I lived in England for 2 years. I personally experienced the heath care in Preston, Burnley, Colne, and Morton. But thanks for playing! Think of it, the government spent millions of pounds on the Colne hospital only to threaten to close it down... Yeah, that sounds way better to me!

And yes. Those experiences are EXACTLY what happened. Private rooms where reserved for citizens that payed for private care. GPs where generally worthless, prescribing OTC medications. And the hospitals in general felt much dirtier then any hospital I have ever been into in the states.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Food is a necessity.. more so than healthcare.. why do we not offer that for free? Shelter is a necessity.. shall we offer people free homes as well? In a free society we expect people to pay for most things themselves. In some areas people ARE charged for things like emergency response.

Correct, In my home town emergency response is payed for by the citizens (some even opted out of having it).

Most people that want universal care have never experienced it. It is garbage. Imagine that every time you get into a doctors office, the only prescription that you are given is "Take a Tylenol and get some rest." Imagine hospitals packed to the eye ball, no private rooms, and the government talking about cutting out hospitals in your area to save money.. Yeah, that sounds like fun.

And lets not forget that you are still paying for it. One way or another, you are paying for it.

And your post shows you have never experienced it either. Like I said above there are problems with Universal Care and wait times are one but that stuff above is nonsense. I'm not arguing that it's the only solution or even necessarily the best but there is a reason that just about every westernised country has adopted it.

Wrongo... I lived in England for 2 years. I personally experienced the heath care in Preston, Burnley, Colne, and Morton. But thanks for playing! Think of it, the government spent millions of pounds on the Colne hospital only to threaten to close it down... Yeah, that sounds way better to me!

And yes. Those experiences are EXACTLY what happened. Private rooms where reserved for citizens that payed for private care. GPs where generally worthless, prescribing OTC medications. And the hospitals in general felt much dirtier then any hospital I have ever been into in the states.

:laugh:

That's your "experience", the government threatened to shut a Hospital down? Fail.

 

[Locut0s]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Food is a necessity.. more so than healthcare.. why do we not offer that for free? Shelter is a necessity.. shall we offer people free homes as well? In a free society we expect people to pay for most things themselves. In some areas people ARE charged for things like emergency response.

Correct, In my home town emergency response is payed for by the citizens (some even opted out of having it).

Most people that want universal care have never experienced it. It is garbage. Imagine that every time you get into a doctors office, the only prescription that you are given is "Take a Tylenol and get some rest." Imagine hospitals packed to the eye ball, no private rooms, and the government talking about cutting out hospitals in your area to save money.. Yeah, that sounds like fun.

And lets not forget that you are still paying for it. One way or another, you are paying for it.

And your post shows you have never experienced it either. Like I said above there are problems with Universal Care and wait times are one but that stuff above is nonsense. I'm not arguing that it's the only solution or even necessarily the best but there is a reason that just about every westernised country has adopted it.

Wrongo... I lived in England for 2 years. I personally experienced the heath care in Preston, Burnley, Colne, and Morton. But thanks for playing! Think of it, the government spent millions of pounds on the Colne hospital only to threaten to close it down... Yeah, that sounds way better to me!

And yes. Those experiences are EXACTLY what happened. Private rooms where reserved for citizens that payed for private care. GPs where generally worthless, prescribing OTC medications. And the hospitals in general felt much dirtier then any hospital I have ever been into in the states.

Get back to us when you loose your insurance and need a tipple bypass.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: sandorski
:laugh:

That's your "experience", the government threatened to shut a Hospital down? Fail.

How about reading the rest of the post? The was one instance, and not an isolated one. I know at the time that there where several hospitals that where being closed down by Blare to save money.

The main point I was getting at is the health care was generally crappy. Even in the brand spankin' new Blackburn general hospital things that we take for granted (Like private rooms) are nonexistent.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Get back to us when you loose your insurance and need a tipple bypass.

How would one "loose" their insurance? How is getting health insurance any different then a gym membership? Should the government pay for every citizen to go to the gym? After all, many people can't afford a gym with which regular attendance would keep people from needing to use the health services in the first place.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Food is a necessity.. more so than healthcare.. why do we not offer that for free? Shelter is a necessity.. shall we offer people free homes as well? In a free society we expect people to pay for most things themselves. In some areas people ARE charged for things like emergency response.

Correct, In my home town emergency response is payed for by the citizens (some even opted out of having it).

Most people that want universal care have never experienced it. It is garbage. Imagine that every time you get into a doctors office, the only prescription that you are given is "Take a Tylenol and get some rest." Imagine hospitals packed to the eye ball, no private rooms, and the government talking about cutting out hospitals in your area to save money.. Yeah, that sounds like fun.

And lets not forget that you are still paying for it. One way or another, you are paying for it.

Wow. Just wow. How can Americans be so ignorant?

That's not how UHC works at all.

My country has it and it works just fine. Our free health care is probably just as good as yours.

And our private healthcare sector is far superior to yours.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Locut0s

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Food is a necessity.. more so than healthcare.. why do we not offer that for free? Shelter is a necessity.. shall we offer people free homes as well? In a free society we expect people to pay for most things themselves. In some areas people ARE charged for things like emergency response.

Correct, In my home town emergency response is payed for by the citizens (some even opted out of having it).

Most people that want universal care have never experienced it. It is garbage. Imagine that every time you get into a doctors office, the only prescription that you are given is "Take a Tylenol and get some rest." Imagine hospitals packed to the eye ball, no private rooms, and the government talking about cutting out hospitals in your area to save money.. Yeah, that sounds like fun.

And lets not forget that you are still paying for it. One way or another, you are paying for it.

And your post shows you have never experienced it either. Like I said above there are problems with Universal Care and wait times are one but that stuff above is nonsense. I'm not arguing that it's the only solution or even necessarily the best but there is a reason that just about every westernised country has adopted it.

Wrongo... I lived in England for 2 years. I personally experienced the heath care in Preston, Burnley, Colne, and Morton. But thanks for playing! Think of it, the government spent millions of pounds on the Colne hospital only to threaten to close it down... Yeah, that sounds way better to me!

And yes. Those experiences are EXACTLY what happened. Private rooms where reserved for citizens that payed for private care. GPs where generally worthless, prescribing OTC medications. And the hospitals in general felt much dirtier then any hospital I have ever been into in the states.

Why were you going to the doctor for something you only needed Tylenol and rest for anyway?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Food is a necessity.. more so than healthcare.. why do we not offer that for free? Shelter is a necessity.. shall we offer people free homes as well? In a free society we expect people to pay for most things themselves. In some areas people ARE charged for things like emergency response.

Correct, In my home town emergency response is payed for by the citizens (some even opted out of having it).

Most people that want universal care have never experienced it. It is garbage. Imagine that every time you get into a doctors office, the only prescription that you are given is "Take a Tylenol and get some rest." Imagine hospitals packed to the eye ball, no private rooms, and the government talking about cutting out hospitals in your area to save money.. Yeah, that sounds like fun.

And lets not forget that you are still paying for it. One way or another, you are paying for it.

Wow. Just wow. How can Americans be so ignorant?

That's not how UHC works at all.

My country has it and it works just fine. Our free health care is probably just as good as yours.

And our private healthcare sector is far superior to yours.

What country would that be?

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Food is a necessity.. more so than healthcare.. why do we not offer that for free? Shelter is a necessity.. shall we offer people free homes as well? In a free society we expect people to pay for most things themselves. In some areas people ARE charged for things like emergency response.

Correct, In my home town emergency response is payed for by the citizens (some even opted out of having it).

Most people that want universal care have never experienced it. It is garbage. Imagine that every time you get into a doctors office, the only prescription that you are given is "Take a Tylenol and get some rest." Imagine hospitals packed to the eye ball, no private rooms, and the government talking about cutting out hospitals in your area to save money.. Yeah, that sounds like fun.

And lets not forget that you are still paying for it. One way or another, you are paying for it.

Wow. Just wow. How can Americans be so ignorant?

That's not how UHC works at all.

My country has it and it works just fine. Our free health care is probably just as good as yours.

And our private healthcare sector is far superior to yours.

What country would that be?

The wonderful land of Oz.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Food is a necessity.. more so than healthcare.. why do we not offer that for free? Shelter is a necessity.. shall we offer people free homes as well? In a free society we expect people to pay for most things themselves. In some areas people ARE charged for things like emergency response.

Correct, In my home town emergency response is payed for by the citizens (some even opted out of having it).

Most people that want universal care have never experienced it. It is garbage. Imagine that every time you get into a doctors office, the only prescription that you are given is "Take a Tylenol and get some rest." Imagine hospitals packed to the eye ball, no private rooms, and the government talking about cutting out hospitals in your area to save money.. Yeah, that sounds like fun.

And lets not forget that you are still paying for it. One way or another, you are paying for it.

Wow. Just wow. How can Americans be so ignorant?

That's not how UHC works at all.

My country has it and it works just fine. Our free health care is probably just as good as yours.

And our private healthcare sector is far superior to yours.

No, it's probably better than ours because your doctors aren't trained drug-dealers, they're actually doctors.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Why were you going to the doctor for something you only needed Tylenol and rest for anyway?

Friend of mine, he was coughing up large amounts of green mucus (probably had pneumonia). He scheduled an appointment with the doctor, It took him a week just to get in to see the GP. After a week of being fairly sick (and he was sick for a couple of weeks afterward) the GP looked him over for about 15 mins, didn't check for strep throat, pneumonia, or anything, just gave him the prescription and said he should be fine.

3 weeks of coughing is not normal.

 

[babylon5]

I think this is a bad analogy comparing UHC to police service.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Why were you going to the doctor for something you only needed Tylenol and rest for anyway?

Friend of mine, he was coughing up large amounts of green mucus (probably had pneumonia). He scheduled an appointment with the doctor, It took him a week just to get in to see the GP. After a week of being fairly sick (and he was sick for a couple of weeks afterward) the GP looked him over for about 15 mins, didn't check for strep throat, pneumonia, or anything, just gave him the prescription and said he should be fine.

3 weeks of coughing is not normal.

So what you're saying is you have no personal experience?

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Why were you going to the doctor for something you only needed Tylenol and rest for anyway?

Friend of mine, he was coughing up large amounts of green mucus (probably had pneumonia). He scheduled an appointment with the doctor, It took him a week just to get in to see the GP. After a week of being fairly sick (and he was sick for a couple of weeks afterward) the GP looked him over for about 15 mins, didn't check for strep throat, pneumonia, or anything, just gave him the prescription and said he should be fine.

3 weeks of coughing is not normal.

it's not like the US health care system is immune.

back in december, I went into the emergency room for a pain in my leg. they discovered that I was dehydrated and kept me for like 36 hours on IV fluids. checked me out without actually addressing my leg despite my repeated protests (though by the end, I was just like F this and wanted to GTFO).

went to my primary care doctor the following week who diagnosed the blood clot in my leg in like 20 seconds.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet
Wow. Just wow. How can Americans be so ignorant?

That's not how UHC works at all.

My country has it and it works just fine. Our free health care is probably just as good as yours.

And our private healthcare sector is far superior to yours.

Oh, sorry, I forgot it was wrong to speak from personal experience. Next time Ill just assume that my health system MUST suck because other people are doing something different!

I would like to know how you arrived at the conclusion that your healthcare system is far superior to the American system. Last I checked there weren't large amounts of Americans flying to country x to have some procedure done on them.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

So what you're saying is you have no personal experience?

No, what I am saying is that in the instance of Tylenol and minimal examination being done, I was not personally involved. I did wait for him at the hospital when he received the examination, and lived with him for the 3 weeks that he was sick. Without actually getting sick myself, that's about as close as you can get to personally experiencing it.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet
Wow. Just wow. How can Americans be so ignorant?

That's not how UHC works at all.

My country has it and it works just fine. Our free health care is probably just as good as yours.

And our private healthcare sector is far superior to yours.

Oh, sorry, I forgot it was wrong to speak from personal experience. Next time Ill just assume that my health system MUST suck because other people are doing something different!

I would like to know how you arrived at the conclusion that your healthcare system is far superior to the American system. Last I checked there weren't large amounts of Americans flying to country x to have some procedure done on them.

People from other countrys in the region fly to Australia for healthcare aswell.

And of course America is on the cutting edge with heaps of new medical technologies etc. You have 300 million people. We have 21 million.

For our size we a large contributers to healthcare technology.

And I wasnt saying your system didn't provide good care. I meant as a 'system' it isn't very good.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet
Wow. Just wow. How can Americans be so ignorant?

That's not how UHC works at all.

My country has it and it works just fine. Our free health care is probably just as good as yours.

And our private healthcare sector is far superior to yours.

Oh, sorry, I forgot it was wrong to speak from personal experience. Next time Ill just assume that my health system MUST suck because other people are doing something different!

I would like to know how you arrived at the conclusion that your healthcare system is far superior to the American system. Last I checked there weren't large amounts of Americans flying to country x to have some procedure done on them.

And you guys have House, so I guess that's a big plus for you.

 

[Cogman]

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: Cogman

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet
Wow. Just wow. How can Americans be so ignorant?

That's not how UHC works at all.

My country has it and it works just fine. Our free health care is probably just as good as yours.

And our private healthcare sector is far superior to yours.

Oh, sorry, I forgot it was wrong to speak from personal experience. Next time Ill just assume that my health system MUST suck because other people are doing something different!

I would like to know how you arrived at the conclusion that your healthcare system is far superior to the American system. Last I checked there weren't large amounts of Americans flying to country x to have some procedure done on them.

People from other countrys in the region fly to Australia for healthcare aswell.

And of course America is on the cutting edge with heaps of new medical technologies etc. You have 300 million people. We have 21 million.

For our size we a large contributers to healthcare technology.

And I wasnt saying your system didn't provide good care. I meant as a 'system' it isn't very good.

Ok, my misunderstanding then.

Perhaps UHC in Australia is far superior to that of England's NHS, I wouldn't know that. However, I haven't heard a whole lot of good things about other UHCs in general (I had a brother spend 2 years in Belgium, he spent a considerable time in the hospital after eating some hazelnut chocolate).

For me, the system works well enough, and knowing current government by trying to implement UHC we would have much to lose and little to gain.

 

[Docnasty]

About 50 years ago people in America didn't use health insurance to go see a doctor when they were sick, or when they needed a prescription, or needed their teeth cleaned. Health insurance was just for having surgury or hospitol stays. Our health care was the envy of the world.

Health care cost too much now because of too much government intervention - too many idiotic regulations too abide by that take time and money. Example: There is a family doctor's office about 10 miles from where I live that does not accept medicare, medicade, or health insurance. A consultation only cost $29 dollars. The average for most family doctor's office visits is well over $100 dollars in most places. The other problem is malpractice insurance costs thousands of dollars a month for most health care providers. Too many people are lawsuit happy. The easy fix to this is to put a law to protect doctors from lawsuits - if the prosecution loses, they have to pay all legal fees for the doctor. Or something to that effect.

Anytime government sticks its nose in something it just makes it worse. If you don't think so you've been watching too much TV and not reading enough history books.