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Florida Gov Scott signs bill forcing welfare drug tests

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spidey07 said:
Get a fucking JOB. Problem is they've never had one so it's a foreign concept to most. Welfare is their way of life and has been for generations and they're going to make damn sure they jump through the hoops to get it. Making one of those hoops not doing drugs is a HUGE step in the right direction.

Welfare recipients don't want a job, because if they got one they wouldn't get free money. See how the democrats developed the perfect trap?
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A perfect example of what I offered earlier- total denial as self justification. He'll believe what he wants to believe up to his dying breath, and there's no force in heaven or on earth that'll change that.

12% unemployment in Florida? meaningless. It's their own fault, obviously. Nobody is ever victim to economic circumstances beyond their control. The Great Depression never happened. If he believed such were possible, his world would crumble.

And, of course, it's all Democrats' fault, too. It has to be in order to support his fantasy.
 
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Jhhnn said:
A perfect example of what I offered earlier- total denial as self justification. He'll believe what he wants to believe up to his dying breath, and there's no force in heaven or on earth that'll change that.

12% unemployment in Florida? meaningless. It's their own fault, obviously. Nobody is ever victim to economic circumstances beyond their control. The Great Depression never happened. If he believed such were possible, his world would crumble.

And, of course, it's all Democrats' fault, too. It has to be in order to support his fantasy.
Click to expand...

It's both party's fault. This is where democracy leads you, no matter what leanings you have. Allowing people to determine the course of government will always result in the stupid masses running things into the ground.
 
drebo said:
Good.

But it still doesn't go far enough. Welfare should be in the form of food stamps and rent vouchers only. Giving them money at all is being too generous.
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Agreed.
And agreed.

Am tired of people being paid to sit around and get high. Only in such a rich country as America would you be able to convince some of the voters thats a good idea.
 
Ape said:
Sounds good to me. A single drug test is a hell of a lot cheaper than using tax payer money to support their habit. Cleaning out the dirt bags will also leave more money for those people who actually need it.
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Yeah because passing a piss test is so hard... even welfare recipients can figure out how to substitute or dilute. Waste of time and money. When do we start mandatory testing the legislators who voted for this?
 
spidey07 said:
Get a fucking JOB. Problem is they've never had one so it's a foreign concept to most. Welfare is their way of life and has been for generations and they're going to make damn sure they jump through the hoops to get it. Making one of those hoops not doing drugs is a HUGE step in the right direction.

Welfare recipients don't want a job, because if they got one they wouldn't get free money. See how the democrats developed the perfect trap?
Click to expand...

I don't think you have ever demonstrated having a JOB yourself purse holder...

Posting on the internet, contrary to popular opinion, is not a job.
 
umbrella39 said:
Yeah because passing a piss test is so hard... even welfare recipients can figure out how to substitute or dilute. Waste of time and money. When do we start mandatory testing the legislators who voted for this?
Click to expand...

There are other ways to test for drugs than the Wizz Quiz.
 
The basis is a very good idea, but it does cut into people's right to privacy.

having said that, if people are getting assistance from the government, I dont think they should be allowed to complain.


its not a "right" to be getting money from the government, it is merely assistance.


I dont think anyone here doesnt get angry when they see people at food stores paying with food stamps while holding an iphone in their hand.



I'd be interested in seeing a report in like 5 years to see if we are saving money or not with these drug tests.
 
spidey07 said:
Get a fucking JOB. Problem is they've never had one so it's a foreign concept to most. Welfare is their way of life and has been for generations and they're going to make damn sure they jump through the hoops to get it. Making one of those hoops not doing drugs is a HUGE step in the right direction.

Welfare recipients don't want a job, because if they got one they wouldn't get free money. See how the democrats developed the perfect trap?
Click to expand...

Ok... This is where I'm going to call bullshit from personal experience. And yeah, I know that one example doesn't reflect on the whole, but it's my story.

When I was 10 my parents divorced. Actually, 'my dad left' would be a better way to describe it. My mom had been a housewife for 10 years and she married straight out of high school. You can imagine the shock of having a nice household income one minute and being a single mom of two boys with a mortgage, bills and no work experience the next.

My mom was on food stamps, WIC warrants, and received housing assistance... and who knows what else. We were on the free lunch program at school. My dad wasn't paying any child support. We were on welfare.

Granted... my mom wasn't on drugs. But she pulled her shit together, got a job and within 2-3 years was off of all assistance.

My point is, I cannot stand this bullshit, self righteous attitude my fellow conservatives have toward welfare. Welfare, public assistance, entitlement programs (I HATE that term)... whatever you want to call it, are a necessary component of a wealthy, caring society.

Are there people who abuse and game the system? Hell yeah! But that's where our frustation and efforts should be directed. Not at the people who take the hand outs. Not every welfare recipeint is a dead beat. We like to point out the worst, most obvious cases but really, so many of them are just single moms who never expected to be in this position. Pick your situation, they're not all the bad, deadbeats some conservatives try to make them out to be. (see above)

Fix the system. Consolidate government departments to eliminate overlap and redundancy that people take advantage of. Install limits. Do the things that make sense.

Drug testing KIND OF makes sense until you arrive at the consequences of doing it. Because if someone tests positive.... then what?

Boot their deadbeat asses!!! Ok, then what?

I've already said this before, it's a humanitarian and financial disaster. I'm not sure what the right answer is. Identify them and force them into a program? That'll work. 🙄 Boot them from the rolls? What if they have kids. And even the ones who don't have kids, what about them? They get booted and you think you're done because you're no longer funding their drug habit? Right, until they break into someone's house to steal for their habit. Then what? Jail? At $40k a year to house them? Suddenly forking out $20k/yr in welfare to keep them stoned and fed seems like a bargain.

The above kind of illustrates the reactionary, knee-jerk, self satisfying, SHORT SIGHTED, answer that makes someone who refuses to think about the consequences of what they want feel really good about themselves. But it's not an answer. It's just the gateway to an even bigger problem.

The EBT cards are a perfect example. "Welfare people should be ASHAMED to be on foodstamps... the EBT card takes the shame away by making it appear that they are swiping a debit card like everyone else!" More self righteous bullshit. The EBT cards eliminate (or at least make it harder) the misuse of the system by not allowing people to game the system to use the stamps to buy cigs or beer or other things not covered by the program. All you can do is swipe the card. If the items qualify for purchase they go through, if not, they don't. Under the old system any change under $1 was handed back as coinage. If you bought a few jawbreakers or gum you had enough change for a pack of cigs. If you did it enough, you had enough change for a bottle of alcohol.

Of course it sucks to pay someone else's way. But we really need to sit back and look at the big picture and see what welfare is buying us, both now and in the long term.

/soapbox
 
Whoozyerdaddy said:
Ok... This is where I'm going to call bullshit from personal experience. And yeah, I know that one example doesn't reflect on the whole, but it's my story.

When I was 10 my parents divorced. Actually, 'my dad left' would be a better way to describe it. My mom had been a housewife for 10 years and she married straight out of high school. You can imagine the shock of having a nice household income one minute and being a single mom of two boys with a mortgage, bills and no work experience the next.

My mom was on food stamps, WIC warrants, and received housing assistance... and who knows what else. We were on the free lunch program at school. My dad wasn't paying any child support. We were on welfare.

Granted... my mom wasn't on drugs. But she pulled her shit together, got a job and within 2-3 years was off of all assistance.

My point is, I cannot stand this bullshit, self righteous attitude my fellow conservatives have toward welfare. Welfare, public assistance, entitlement programs (I HATE that term)... whatever you want to call it, are a necessary component of a wealthy, caring society.

Are there people who abuse and game the system? Hell yeah! But that's where our frustation and efforts should be directed. Not at the people who take the hand outs. Not every welfare recipeint is a dead beat. We like to point out the worst, most obvious cases but really, so many of them are just single moms who never expected to be in this position. Pick your situation, they're not all the bad, deadbeats some conservatives try to make them out to be. (see above)

Fix the system. Consolidate government departments to eliminate overlap and redundancy that people take advantage of. Install limits. Do the things that make sense.

Drug testing KIND OF makes sense until you arrive at the consequences of doing it. Because if someone tests positive.... then what?

Boot their deadbeat asses!!! Ok, then what?

I've already said this before, it's a humanitarian and financial disaster. I'm not sure what the right answer is. Identify them and force them into a program? That'll work. 🙄 Boot them from the rolls? What if they have kids. And even the ones who don't have kids, what about them? They get booted and you think you're done because you're no longer funding their drug habit? Right, until they break into someone's house to steal for their habit. Then what? Jail? At $40k a year to house them? Suddenly forking out $20k/yr in welfare to keep them stoned and fed seems like a bargain.

The above kind of illustrates the reactionary, knee-jerk, self satisfying, SHORT SIGHTED, answer that makes someone who refuses to think about the consequences of what they want feel really good about themselves. But it's not an answer. It's just the gateway to an even bigger problem.

The EBT cards are a perfect example. "Welfare people should be ASHAMED to be on foodstamps... the EBT card takes the shame away by making it appear that they are swiping a debit card like everyone else!" More self righteous bullshit. The EBT cards eliminate (or at least make it harder) the misuse of the system by not allowing people to game the system to use the stamps to buy cigs or beer or other things not covered by the program. All you can do is swipe the card. If the items qualify for purchase they go through, if not, they don't. Under the old system any change under $1 was handed back as coinage. If you bought a few jawbreakers or gum you had enough change for a pack of cigs. If you did it enough, you had enough change for a bottle of alcohol.

Of course it sucks to pay someone else's way. But we really need to sit back and look at the big picture and see what welfare is buying us, both now and in the long term.

/soapbox
Click to expand...


what does your life story have to do with drug users?

the whole point is to reduce spending on people who would, instead of spending money on useful items, would spend it on drugs.

your mom, by your story, is perfectly fine with her use of the system. Unless she was substituting the little money she made and bought drugs, then she was using the system as it intended.


the whole point of the drug test system imo, is to get people back into reality that the government isnt there to give them free money while they sit back and do nothing., especially when we cant afford it.

if they want to buy drugs, dont get federal money. simple as that
 
Ape said:
So you are against drug testing? What's the harm in making sure people are on the up and up who are using tax payer moneys? And don't kid yourself, people know how to play the system and get services they don't deserve. Bottom line, if they don't want to take the drug test then the have something to hide and don't deserve the tax payers money.
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Lets take it one step further Bonzo, lets test everyone taking their Driver's test. He they are using taxpayers money in the form of roads. Lets also test all the kids using public Schools as they too are using tazpayers money.
 
Freshgeardude said:
what does your life story have to do with drug users?

the whole point is to reduce spending on people who would, instead of spending money on useful items, would spend it on drugs.

your mom, by your story, is perfectly fine with her use of the system. Unless she was substituting the little money she made and bought drugs, then she was using the system as it intended.


the whole point of the drug test system imo, is to get people back into reality that the government isnt there to give them free money while they sit back and do nothing., especially when we cant afford it.

if they want to buy drugs, dont get federal money. simple as that
Click to expand...

I addressed that. You didn't read my entire post. I know it's long, but don't try to explain something to me that I've already addressed. Read the 4th paragraph from the bottom. Then get back to me.

Actually read my entire post in the context of the post I was quoting. You're taking me out of context here. Don't do that. I started out addressing Spidey's overall distaste and broad brushing of welfare recipiants. I made it clear that my mom wasn't a drug user. I wasn't addressing that topic until later in my post.

Fucking learn how to read.
 
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Ape said:
You pay into SS, Farm Aid is private and has no such rules, welfare is a hand out funded by the tax payers, provided by the government and then handed out to people who haven't contributed a penny to the program. And since Welfare is an optional program, they are not being forced to drug test. They chose not to test then they are opting out of the optional hand out program.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Farmers get free government money not to grow, when disaster strikes, and other grants. Constitutionally this is not equal treatment under the law. This is going nowhere.
 
Freshgeardude said:
take it that using drugs is both a state and federal crime, I do think its the govt business.
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using drugs is not a crime, possessing them is. Once you have done them you aren't in possession of them anymore.

Possessing them shouldn't be a crime either but that is another argument.
 
If any of you think Scott is doing this to protect the tax dollars in Florida, you are sorely mistaken. Under the guise of Welfare Reform, Scott is giving a big handout to his health-care cronies (who do you think is gonna administer the drug tests?).

Scott stole MILLIONS of Medicare dollars, as a 'businessman' and ducked out his own back door right before the Feds came swooping in. He used OUR Federal dollars to buy the election last year (he funded the bulk of his own campaign).
 
^ Isnt Florida the state with all those "pain clinics" in every strip mall essentially legalized dope peddling. I think you might be right.
 
Darwin333 said:
using drugs is not a crime, possessing them is. Once you have done them you aren't in possession of them anymore.

Possessing them shouldn't be a crime either but that is another argument.
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In places like Hawaii its illegal to be high on pot and they will test you on the spot. Its a way of busting the bigger dealers who often have someone else with them carrying the pot. This law could end up being similarly enforced on a selective basis which I don't personally care about, but people claiming it will save money is absurd. It is just another political move in the war on drugs to distract people from the real issues such as people working under the table that can easily save tax payers money. Hell, all the studies also show that probation for nonviolent drug offenders is more effective and a lot cheaper too, but the tax payers keep buying into the idea that somehow draconian measures will win the war and save them money.
 
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