Florida Gov Scott signs bill forcing welfare drug tests

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ward of the state, in and out of foster homes, raised by druggie parents ...there's a difference in the outcome?

Well since all options suck let's just do away with the program. No sense in throwing good money after bad eh?

 

[sandorski]

Care to elaborate?

Do I really need to? You seem very eager to rip Rights away from others.

 

[Ape]

Do I really need to? You seem very eager to rip Rights away from others.

Yes you do, you made the claim back it up.

Now what rights are being ripped away exactly? The right to be a well fare druggie? The right to be irresponsible? The right to be an unfit parent?

 

[Nebor]

We should also test for alcohol, cigarettes, and cheeseburgers.

Cheeseburger test is questionable, I'm ok with the other two though. Perhaps if the cheeseburger test was conditioned on BMI?

 

[Ape]

Cheeseburger test is questionable, I'm ok with the other two though. Perhaps if the cheeseburger test was conditioned on BMI?

lol

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

I didn't say you did say that. It's either state or druggie unless there is another option I am missing.

So the state becomes the guardian for thousands of kids (nevermind the damage that will cause) while they figure out how to place them in foster care... how does this save them any money?

So back to my question. What's the plan here?

 

[Ape]

So the state becomes the guardian for thousands of kids (nevermind the damage that will cause) while they figure out how to place them in foster care... how does this save them any money?

I'm not sure it would save but I would rather my tax money go to those kids in foster care then their junkie parents. This is one of those situations that sucks either way. The foster, to me mind you, seems less sucky.

 

[JSt0rm]

I'm not sure it would save but I would rather my tax money go to those kids in foster care then their junkie parents. This is one of those situations that sucks either way. The foster, to me mind you, seems less sucky.

You mean you want MY tax money to go there hmm? Your state is in the hole regarding taxes already.

 

[Jhhnn]

So I haven't seen this question yet...

Most welfare cases involve kids. What happens when the recipiant tests positive? They just get cut off? The kids starve? Become a ward of the state? Get placed in foster care?

All this "America Fuck Yeah! Cut off the deadbeats!!!" seem to miss the point here. I'm all for a better system with tighter controls but how is this thing really going to play out?

Do not attempt to make sense to the self righteous raving trolls. Do not remind them that they're the only people on earth who can reconcile "smaller govt" with drug testing welfare recipients, who can keep their noses squarely in their leadership's buttcracks through an entire figure skating performance, including a quadruple axle.

It's hard sometimes, but they can do it, because they've had lots of practice, and because they want to do so quite desperately.

Mom's dumb enough to take a coupla tokes off a joint friday night, and her kids go hungry starting tuesday. What a great idea!

Did we drug test Wall St bankers when we handed over $Trillions? AIG? GM? Chrysler?

Maybe we should just act like people who collect welfare are doing something wrong, regardless of circumstance, and drug test them because that's probable cause, right?

Obviously, of course, real addicts will commit less crime if they're own their own, Huh? And I'm sure it's much, much cheaper to put 'em in prison than paying welfare, too... then paying foster families to keep their kids... and then there's drug testing fees, attorneys, prison guards, counselors- maybe this is just Florida's version of a jobs program... they need one, with 12% unemployment, a lot more than they need this... well, other than the wingnut outrage junkies, who'll get their smug jollies off of this, obviously.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

I'm not sure it would save but I would rather my tax money go to those kids in foster care then their junkie parents. This is one of those situations that sucks either way. The foster, to me mind you, seems less sucky.

So you're willing to absorb the immediate costs of forcible removal from the home and temp housing plus foster care PLUS the inevitable long term costs associated with that kind of emotional trauma put on the kids and the parents. I get that.

But back to my original question. What is Florida's plan here? What happens when the recipiant fails a test? And bear in mind here... I'm kind of on your side. I just don't believe that draconian methods work in situations like this. I'm all for the EBT cards and direct section 8 housing payments.

But if your answer is to just cut them off, what you'll end up with is a mess the likes of which you've never seen before. Tons of kids in foster care or wards of the state and their parents potentially out on the street, homeless. Or worse, parents AND kids out on the street, homeless.

Can't you look a little bit further down the road, get past your 'F the deadbeats' attitude and look at the long term consequences/costs of just yanking the rug out from under people?

 

[sandorski]

Yes you do, you made the claim back it up.

Now what rights are being ripped away exactly? The right to be a well fare druggie? The right to be irresponsible? The right to be an unfit parent?

Privacy.

 

[spidey07]

Privacy.

Don't take the government money and you have all the privacy you want. That's freedom. When you invite the government into your life don't be surprised if they start telling you what you can and cannot do.

Don't want them in your shit? Don't invite them in by taking other peoples money. That's MY money and as such I'll tell you exactly what you can and cannot do. I'm your boss effectively when you take my money. As your employer I'm going to drug test you. If you fail, no job (welfare), I'm not paying you to sit on your fat ass and do drugs.

 

[xj0hnx]

Well since all options suck let's just do away with the program. No sense in throwing good money after bad eh?

Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. What would be better, putting the kids in foster homes, and the parents in jail, or getting the parents into a rehab, and helping them make a move to a sober life with their kids?

 

[soundforbjt]

Don't take the government money and you have all the privacy you want. That's freedom. When you invite the government into your life don't be surprised if they start telling you what you can and cannot do.

Don't want them in your shit? Don't invite them in by taking other peoples money. That's MY money and as such I'll tell you exactly what you can and cannot do. I'm your boss effectively when you take my money. As your employer I'm going to drug test you. If you fail, no job (welfare), I'm not paying you to sit on your fat ass and do drugs.

You live in Florida? I thought you lived in KY. How is it YOUR money?

Let's see. Parents lose kids (costs alot of money for foster care, no savings there), Then parent (s) probably get "free" drug conselling (more costs) + they're homeless (more crime= more costs, cops, trials, prison,etc.)

How does this save money again???

 

[CitizenKain]

I'm not sure it would save but I would rather my tax money go to those kids in foster care then their junkie parents. This is one of those situations that sucks either way. The foster, to me mind you, seems less sucky.

So do you think everyone who tests positive on a drug test is a junkie? If so, it does explain your poor grasp of reality. You think someone who smokes a single joint a week is some sort of monster? What about the guy who downs a 6 pack as soon as he gets home, what makes him the better member of society other then the contents of his blood stream?

Why do you think foster care is better? I'm asking questions in the vain hope that you will attempt to think of something besides screaming "MY TAX DOLLARS."So, when these people lose their welfare and now have no income, what do they do now? Now, before you say "get a job" I'd like you to look at the unemployment rate in Florida, or frankly, any state. So, what job do they get?

Never gets old seeing "small government" people get all excited about invading someone's personal life. If only they understood irony.

 

[Ape]

Privacy.

Then don't take the money.

 

[Ape]

So you're willing to absorb the immediate costs of forcible removal from the home and temp housing plus foster care PLUS the inevitable long term costs associated with that kind of emotional trauma put on the kids and the parents. I get that.

But back to my original question. What is Florida's plan here? What happens when the recipiant fails a test? And bear in mind here... I'm kind of on your side. I just don't believe that draconian methods work in situations like this. I'm all for the EBT cards and direct section 8 housing payments.

But if your answer is to just cut them off, what you'll end up with is a mess the likes of which you've never seen before. Tons of kids in foster care or wards of the state and their parents potentially out on the street, homeless. Or worse, parents AND kids out on the street, homeless.

Can't you look a little bit further down the road, get past your 'F the deadbeats' attitude and look at the long term consequences/costs of just yanking the rug out from under people?

I agree I am being a little bit harsh and to be fair it will take smarter people than us to fix this. I can see the kids being temporarily removed and then returned if the parents straighten themselves out. Or even better able to live with other family members is that option is available.

As for the cost, I would hope, and when government is involved who knows really, that the money not spent on the well fare would be transfered to aiding those kids but who knows.

 

[spidey07]

So do you think everyone who tests positive on a drug test is a junkie? If so, it does explain your poor grasp of reality. You think someone who smokes a single joint a week is some sort of monster? What about the guy who downs a 6 pack as soon as he gets home, what makes him the better member of society other then the contents of his blood stream?

Why do you think foster care is better? I'm asking questions in the vain hope that you will attempt to think of something besides screaming "MY TAX DOLLARS."So, when these people lose their welfare and now have no income, what do they do now? Now, before you say "get a job" I'd like you to look at the unemployment rate in Florida, or frankly, any state. So, what job do they get?

Never gets old seeing "small government" people get all excited about invading someone's personal life. If only they understood irony.

Get a fucking JOB. Problem is they've never had one so it's a foreign concept to most. Welfare is their way of life and has been for generations and they're going to make damn sure they jump through the hoops to get it. Making one of those hoops not doing drugs is a HUGE step in the right direction.

Welfare recipients don't want a job, because if they got one they wouldn't get free money. See how the democrats developed the perfect trap?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. What would be better, putting the kids in foster homes, and the parents in jail, or getting the parents into a rehab, and helping them make a move to a sober life with their kids?

I'd like some sort of rehab program, but how do you know if it's needed if you aren't allowed to find out?

I detest the current system but I realize two things. First there is a need for a functional system and the second is that political considerations will never allow one to exist.

 

[soundforbjt]

Get a fucking JOB. Problem is they've never had one so it's a foreign concept to most. Welfare is their way of life and has been for generations and they're going to make damn sure they jump through the hoops to get it. Making one of those hoops not doing drugs is a HUGE step in the right direction.

Welfare recipients don't want a job, because if they got one they wouldn't get free money. See how the democrats developed the perfect trap?

If they had a job, they wouldn't be on welfare.
But I'm sure that simple concept is lost on you, also the jobless rate in FL is 12%, where do you think they'll get a job at?

College graduates are working at McDonalds now, where will welfare moms with probably not even a GED get a job?

 

[CitizenKain]

Get a fucking JOB. Problem is they've never had one so it's a foreign concept to most. Welfare is their way of life and has been for generations and they're going to make damn sure they jump through the hoops to get it. Making one of those hoops not doing drugs is a HUGE step in the right direction.

Welfare recipients don't want a job, because if they got one they wouldn't get free money. See how the democrats developed the perfect trap?

So, have you look at unemployment recently? I know that would involve reading and understanding, but I'm sure you could manage it. Do you somehow think that people would rather squeak by on welfare vs having a decent job?

 

[JSt0rm]

If they had a job, they wouldn't be on welfare.
But I'm sure that simple concept is lost on you, also the jobless rate in FL is 12%, where do you think they'll get a job at?

College graduates are working at McDonalds now, where will welfare moms with probably not even a GED get a job?

They wont. They are fucked.

 

[classy]

I don't think this going to help that much. Most hard core druggies ain't sitting around collecting welfare. I agree with what someone else said, I don't think they should be collecting money any more. Give them free rent and food stamps.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If they had a job, they wouldn't be on welfare.
But I'm sure that simple concept is lost on you, also the jobless rate in FL is 12%, where do you think they'll get a job at?

College graduates are working at McDonalds now, where will welfare moms with probably not even a GED get a job?

Good jobs are scarce, sometimes crappy ones too. The problem is that the current system is a complete free ride and that's why most reasonable people object to. Consider that people are free to bring as many mouths into the world that they can't take care of. In fact it is rewarded. That's screwed up. Imagine a politician bringing that up? He'd be flayed alive. That's even more screwed up. Really need it but go over by a few dollars? Lose all your health benefits. It's insane.

 

[Nebor]

They wont. They are fucked.

Who cares.