FIRST OFFICIAL DX10 GAME DEMO OUT

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
Ackmed, your post was a *judgment call*, but it sounded like a *statement of fact*. If you'd said from the first that, in your opinion, it was extremely unlikely that a developer would make a game requiring DX10 hardware exclusively at this point in time, then no one would be arguing with you now because you would all be in agreement. Your posts were worded as if you were saying that *all* DX10 games would run on DX9 cards without any developer action.

*sigh*

Actually, I simply refuted this claim;

You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards. Youll need an 8xxx series Nvidia for 2000 series ATI card for the DX10 version.

Are you trying to say he is correct? Feel free to show me one DX10 game that you cant use a DX9 card for. Since we only have one to try...

Originally posted by: rise

Cave - 39 fps

do you know how to get 1680x1050


[/quote]

You can edit the default.cfg. There are some res' in there, not sure if you can edit them to work.

 

[Chadder007]

Originally posted by: anandus
I just tried both the DirectX9 and the DirectX10 versions, and the first thing I noticed was:
Absolutely no difference in image quality!!!

Anyway,

My setup is:
E6300
MSI 8800GTS320 OC
2Gb DDR2

Gamesettings:
1280x720
4xAA
16xAF
HDR - Medium

Results:
DirectX10 - Snow: 47fps
DirectX10 - Cave: 23fps

DirectX9 - Snow: 52fps
DirectX9 - Cave: 34fps

Cheers

DX10 = FAIL!

 

[nitromullet]

DX10 = FAIL!

Maybe initially, but eventually you will see DX10 do stuff that DX9 simply can't do. This is the first DX10 game out so far, I don't think it's fair to judge the API as a whole based on one title.

 

[Extelleron]

AMD X2 3600+ Brisbane @ 2.8GHz
2GB (1GBx2) DDR-2 @ 800MHz 5-5-5-15
eVGA 8800GTS 640MB
Windows Vista 32-Bit
ForceWare 158.42 (160.03 makes no difference in performance from what I've seen)


1280x960 4xAA/16xAF, Max in Game

8800GTS 640MB @ 500/1600: Snow 14 / Cave 17
8800GTS 640MB @ 612/2000: Snow 17 / Cave 21

1280x960 No AA / No AF, Max in Game

8800GTS 640MB @ 612/2000: Snow 20 / Cave 22
8800GTS 640MB @ 500/1600: Snow 16 / Cave 18

1280x960 4xAA/16xAF, Shadow Quality = Medium

8800GTS 640MB @ 500/1600: Snow 31 / Cave 41
8800GTS 640MB @ 612/2000: Snow 38 / Cave 41

I can't find a way to set resolution @ 1680x1050. Does anyone else know how to do this?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: mcturkey

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Every single game DX10 game, will be able to be played with a DX9 card. Your statement of "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards." is wrong, just admit it and move on.

So you've been playing the DX10 version of the game on your DX9 hardware? Your statement is too inclusive. Most games with a DX10 rendering path will also have a DX9 rendering path. However, there may well come a day when games don't support that.

Name me one, that wont play on a DX9 card. Do you think devs are that dumb to alienate the majority of gamers? No.

I think a more appropriate way to say this is, You can play DX10 games on DX9 hardware, just without any DX10 features. Also, games could turn up that will ONLY run on Vista. Similar to how certain games that ran on Win9x will not run on W2k/XP or games that require W2K/XP and wont run on Win9x.
This is entirely possible. You are too quick to dismiss things however. You'll probably say this will never happen, even though history dictates that it most assuredly has. You can safely bet that Microsoft has it's beady little eyes on this prospect forcing gamers who want to play the latest DX10 game into buying Vista. Alienation is relative. Big devs may see that people who want to game in DX10 style will in fact bite the bullet for Vista. They can use the momentum of MS pressure to make development decisions.



The fact is, any DX10 game will play on a DX9 card. Him saying, "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards. Youll need an 8xxx series Nvidia for 2000 series ATI card for the DX10 version." Is wrong, plain and simple.

It all comes down to this, "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards. Youll need an 8xxx series Nvidia for 2000 series ATI card for the DX10 version." He is wrong in saying so.

How do I know? Because Im playing >>>>>a<<<<< DX10 demo now, with a DX9 card and a DX9 path. Making a blanket statement like he did is wrong, and foolish. All I did is point it out, and now its being dragged on an on...

Yeah some games will require Vista, because MS wants people to upgrade, and use their Live service. That doesnt mean games will be DX10 or nothing. How long as DX9 been out? How many games can you not play today with a DX8 card?

But you're making the exact opposite "blanket statement" which could be considered equally foolish. I just ran into a situation where a user wanted to install and play the SIMS 2 or a certain variation of the SIMS chronicles. They installed it, but couldn't fire it up. Error displayed saying "could not detect proper DX9 hardware" Or something very close to that message. We purchased a GeForce 6200, installed the drivers, and the game fired right up.

Now just because you have never run into a situation like this, doesn't mean they don't happen. To say this, "The fact is, any DX10 game will play on a DX9 card." Is highly presumptuous in it's own right. You used the word "any" which means all DX10 games that will ever be created. You could have used the word "most" and I would have most likely agreed with you. You want to be a stickler for exact word usage? Well, then so can we. And you base this on a single LOST PLANET demo? Here is a gun. Jump it.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: wingless

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: wingless
Sorry bro. You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards. Youll need an 8xxx series Nvidia for 2000 series ATI card for the DX10 version.

This is false. You can play DX10 games, with a DX9 card. Just without the DX10 effects.

Demo working fine for me. Vista Ultimate x32, and X1900XT here. Ill try my WinXp x64 tomorrow, see how it works, and the performance difference. Dual boot, so comparisons are easy.

What I was trying to say is that you cannot play a DX10 game on a DX9 card. Youre just adding the fact that if the DX10 game has a DX9 version then of course it can be played on a DX9 card. DX10 only software doesnt work on DX9 hardware though.

Every single game DX10 game, will be able to be played with a DX9 card. Your statement of "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards." is wrong, just admit it and move on.

Originally posted by: MadBoris

To the rest of the intelligent people... If your getting errors looking for dx files

Haha. Before you insult other people, at least try to have 3rd grade grammar.

Actually you are incorrect...if a game is coded for DX10 and has no DX9 "mode" or "version" then it won't even load up. End of story. The opposite however is ok...meaning if you have DX10 hardware and you have a DX9 game obviously it's backwards compatable. Nowhere in the history of the world has anything been made forward compatabkle with a newer standard. Just like TV... a Standard 480i TV couldn't get a 1080i signal and know what it is.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: mcturkey

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Every single game DX10 game, will be able to be played with a DX9 card. Your statement of "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards." is wrong, just admit it and move on.

So you've been playing the DX10 version of the game on your DX9 hardware? Your statement is too inclusive. Most games with a DX10 rendering path will also have a DX9 rendering path. However, there may well come a day when games don't support that.

Name me one, that wont play on a DX9 card. Do you think devs are that dumb to alienate the majority of gamers? No.

The fact is, any DX10 game will play on a DX9 card. Him saying, "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards. Youll need an 8xxx series Nvidia for 2000 series ATI card for the DX10 version." Is wrong, plain and simple.

Again you're wrong...THERE ARE 2 DIFFERENT EXECUTABLES or "versions" of the game. It's like this...they run in DX10 if you can and if not they run DX9 and yes tehre will be DX10 ONLY titles out there in the future. Just like there are DX9 ONLY titles.

The next version of 3dmark will be DX10 ONLY and they have stated that it will not run at all no matter what on DX9 hardware.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: mcturkey

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Every single game DX10 game, will be able to be played with a DX9 card. Your statement of "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards." is wrong, just admit it and move on.

So you've been playing the DX10 version of the game on your DX9 hardware? Your statement is too inclusive. Most games with a DX10 rendering path will also have a DX9 rendering path. However, there may well come a day when games don't support that.

Name me one, that wont play on a DX9 card. Do you think devs are that dumb to alienate the majority of gamers? No.

I think a more appropriate way to say this is, You can play DX10 games on DX9 hardware, just without any DX10 features. Also, games could turn up that will ONLY run on Vista. Similar to how certain games that ran on Win9x will not run on W2k/XP or games that require W2K/XP and wont run on Win9x.
This is entirely possible. You are too quick to dismiss things however. You'll probably say this will never happen, even though history dictates that it most assuredly has. You can safely bet that Microsoft has it's beady little eyes on this prospect forcing gamers who want to play the latest DX10 game into buying Vista. Alienation is relative. Big devs may see that people who want to game in DX10 style will in fact bite the bullet for Vista. They can use the momentum of MS pressure to make development decisions.



The fact is, any DX10 game will play on a DX9 card. Him saying, "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards. Youll need an 8xxx series Nvidia for 2000 series ATI card for the DX10 version." Is wrong, plain and simple.

It all comes down to this, "You cant play DX10 games with any DX9 cards. Youll need an 8xxx series Nvidia for 2000 series ATI card for the DX10 version." He is wrong in saying so.

How do I know? Because Im playing a DX10 demo now, with a DX9 card and a DX9 path. Making a blanket statement like he did is wrong, and foolish. All I did is point it out, and now its being dragged on an on...

Yeah some games will require Vista, because MS wants people to upgrade, and use their Live service. That doesnt mean games will be DX10 or nothing. How long as DX9 been out? How many games can you not play today with a DX8 card?

No you're playing the version of the game coded for DX9, the seperate version for DX10 won't run. Trust me I tried.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: apoppin

How many games can you not play today with a DX8 card?

quite a few and the list is growing

but that is besides your point
most new games will have a DX9 path at least for a couple of more years

Alan Wake is an 'exception' - so far - that requires DX10 ... and a Dual-core cpu
-next year, i believe

And when did DX9 come out again... ? The fact is, his statement is wrong, and I corrected him on it. He didnt like it, or doesnt understand he is wrong. And now Im done discussing it, there really is no point in it.

Personally, I dont think Allen Wake will require a DX10 card, but who knows. What I do know is that Lost Planet doesnt, making his comment wrong.

i assume that is rhetorical about DX8 and will ignore it

and i was answering YOU ... and i corrected you ... maybe don't you understand you are wrong.

Alan Wake DOES require DX10 and dual core. And now Im done discussing it, there really is no point in it.

We'll have to see. I dont think they will alienate that many people with DX9 cards. Which I seem to be backed up by allenwake.com's forums. See Faq. They said it runs fine on a 7900GTX. They even said it would run on a P4 with HT, but not very well.

Corrected me? Sorry, there is only one DX10 game (demo) available right now, and you can play it just fine with a DX9 card. Seems like I am right, and he is wrong. And of course you had to reply to me, despite you claiming you never read my posts.

3rd time I'm telling you this...You are playing the DX9 version...the DX10 version (there are 2 different downloads BTW) will not run on DX9 hardware.

This game was made originally on an Xbox360 which from what I know was not built on DX10 entirely. So what happened with this game is a port (a bad port for the demo) and the game is mostly built on DX9 but there are some effects added that use DX10 and suck your fps down.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Fraggable

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd

Originally posted by: mcturkey
Color me unimpressed. Under DX10 with everything maxed out, running at 1600x1000, it averaged 19fps on my system (X2 4400, 8800GTX, 2GB DDR2) with no apparent visual improvement over the 360 version. What DX10 visual effects are in this game that are not available in the DX9 version?

Also, I hope this is not indicative of general DX10 performance in all games. Hopefully the driver situation will be remedied in time for Crysis, because it's looking like I may need to go SLI (in addition to a K10 quad-core as soon as they're available). Sigh. This hobby does get rather expensive.

This is my concern too. If the DX10 demos/patches available now are any indication than the highest end hardware will only average somewhere in the neighborhood of ~30fps. That's pathetic and unplayable for most games IMO. That has to change, I can't afford $800 on video cards just to play a handfull of games not to mention a new PSU since my P5B Deluxe can only do crossfire and the 2900xt is too damn power hungry. That would mean that I'd be spending over $1k for just a few games...that's rediculous and out of the question. I sincerely hope that a single card in the range of a 2900xt or 8800gtx can and will handle the new DX10 games.

You could sttribute it to drivers, bad game code, ineffecient use of DX10 in general or whatever you want. I just hope the graphical quality of the real DX10 games doesn't make the game run at 10fps.

I too don't see any difference between DX9 and DX10 of this game except that the DX10 version runs ungodly slow. My friend's 3Ghz C2D with an 8800gts only gets in the range of 25fps give or take.

I'm betting this is a badly coded game, period.

Crysis is the only other DX10 game I've been following, and it's been said many times that it will run very well on X1900's, 1950's, and 7900's. The system requirements are something like a P4 2.0GHz and a X1300. That implies that it's not going to require as much power as this demo seems to, I mean so far it looks like SLI'd 8800GTX's (not possible in Vista right now) are required to play at 1600 X 1200 with good frames and that's just not reasonable. There would be no market for this game.

So don't give up on DX10 games yet, I suspect this is just a bad demo.

Yes, but Crysis is DX9 and DX10...basically depending on what you have you can enable features in DX10 not available in the DX9 version. Similar here except what I said before...DX10 eats your fps and makes the game just about unplayable. You could run DX9 and have 40+fps easy with all the effects turned on and it looks just as good from what I can see as the DX10 version. All I'm hoping is that the new DX10 features don't all make your fps drop so low in every game. I'm sure things will get better as we move on, but I would hate to see someone spend $400 on a card now and then when Crysis or some other game releases they have to use DX9 because DX10 is only 15fps. That would be horrible. We shall see and this is why I'm not buying any DX10 hardware yet.

 

[Nightmare225]

Anyone else having the game freeze under the DX9 version while you are picking up one of those little heat globs to maintain your T-ENG? It happens all the time to me and forces me to restart my system... Quite annoying!

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225
Anyone else having the game freeze under the DX9 version while you are picking up one of those little heat globs to maintain your T-ENG? It happens all the time to me and forces me to restart my system... Quite annoying!

no, not yet...are you running Vista?

 

[Fenixgoon]

can this run on ATI X800 series? I have an X850XT and I got the error "unsupported Pixel Shader version 2.0"

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
can this run on ATI X800 series? I have an X850XT and I got the error "unsupported Pixel Shader version 2.0"

It requires SM3 to work. The X8xx series only support SM2.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
can this run on ATI X800 series? I have an X850XT and I got the error "unsupported Pixel Shader version 2.0"

It requires SM3 to work. The X8xx series only support SM2.

lame:| (that it requires SM3.. i knew the X8xx only did SM2)

guess i might be getting a new video card in the near future

 

[imported_pendragon]

Dx9 /XP
42 fps snow
19 fps cave
1024x768

No problems, playable for me on my old 2.8c / 7600GT

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
can this run on ATI X800 series? I have an X850XT and I got the error "unsupported Pixel Shader version 2.0"

It requires SM3 to work. The X8xx series only support SM2.

lame:| (that it requires SM3.. i knew the X8xx only did SM2)

guess i might be getting a new video card in the near future

there are some *games* out now that require SM3.0 that the x800 series cannot run at all ... one of them is RS:Vegas, i believe

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
can this run on ATI X800 series? I have an X850XT and I got the error "unsupported Pixel Shader version 2.0"

It requires SM3 to work. The X8xx series only support SM2.

lame:| (that it requires SM3.. i knew the X8xx only did SM2)

guess i might be getting a new video card in the near future

there are some *games* out now that require SM3.0 that the x800 series cannot run at all ... one of them is RS:Vegas, i believe

i was never a fan of the RS6 series, so i never noticed

so... who wants an X850XT?

 

[Nightmare225]

I found the solution. Seems that there are some unreleased 160.02 drivers floating around, I tried them, and VOILA, the game has no crashing issues anymore! It even runs a bit faster

http://downloads.guru3d.com/downloadget...1&evp=10ed676d39627fae39346084769af580

 

[CaptainJackSwallows]

HEY DO NOT THINK THAT ALL DX10 GAMES WILL PERFORM THIS BADLY. AS YOU CAN SEE FROM RMED64'S POST IN PAGE 3, IT IS ONLY USING ONE CPU CORE. OTHER DX10 TITLES ARE EXPTECTED TO USE 2+ CORES WHICH EQUALS FASTER GAMING. THAT IS ALL.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
can this run on ATI X800 series? I have an X850XT and I got the error "unsupported Pixel Shader version 2.0"

It requires SM3 to work. The X8xx series only support SM2.

lame:| (that it requires SM3.. i knew the X8xx only did SM2)

guess i might be getting a new video card in the near future

there are some *games* out now that require SM3.0 that the x800 series cannot run at all ... one of them is RS:Vegas, i believe

i was never a fan of the RS6 series, so i never noticed

so... who wants an X850XT?

well, what are you gonna get to replace it ... x1950p/xt ... HD2900xt ?

... i did the x1950p thing in Dec ... when Gothic3 and NWN2 owned my rig...
then it lead to a PS upgrade .. a CPU upgrade ... my CRT died > LCD ... a RAM upgrade ... MB died > another MB ... another RAM upgrade to DDR2 ... another CPU upgrade

be careful ... once you take your x850xt out of your case it starts to get really expensive

but don't wait till you can't get 'anything' for it

 

[40sTheme]

Anyone have any idea how to get 1440x900 resolution in this demo? The blurry/nasty/poopy non-native resolution is starting to piss me off.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: 40sTheme
Anyone have any idea how to get 1440x900 resolution in this demo? The blurry/nasty/poopy non-native resolution is starting to piss me off.

I'm also looking for a way to enable 1680x1050 res. LP is a fun game but it's obvious not much optimization has been put into this PC version - it feels like they copied the X360 version, added a performance-killing "high shadow quality" option, and called it a "PC version."

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Extelleron

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
can this run on ATI X800 series? I have an X850XT and I got the error "unsupported Pixel Shader version 2.0"

It requires SM3 to work. The X8xx series only support SM2.

lame:| (that it requires SM3.. i knew the X8xx only did SM2)

guess i might be getting a new video card in the near future

there are some *games* out now that require SM3.0 that the x800 series cannot run at all ... one of them is RS:Vegas, i believe

i was never a fan of the RS6 series, so i never noticed

so... who wants an X850XT?

well, what are you gonna get to replace it ... x1950p/xt ... HD2900xt ?

... i did the x1950p thing in Dec ... when Gothic3 and NWN2 owned my rig...
then it lead to a PS upgrade .. a CPU upgrade ... my CRT died > LCD ... a RAM upgrade ... MB died > another MB ... another RAM upgrade to DDR2 ... another CPU upgrade

be careful ... once you take your x850xt out of your case it starts to get really expensive

but don't wait till you can't get 'anything' for it

i was thinking of doing a summer HTPC upgrade, but R630, crysis, hellgate london, and ETQW come out soon.. and then phenom comes out at christmas

 

[GEOrifle]

GUYS: Be ready trow your "lovely" Dx9 cards in GARBAGE.
Wellcome to club of "$400++++$1000 GPU cards" or......buy 360 -PS3 .