Finding Common Ground

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: digitalsm
No.

Its time for the GOP to ram through Tax Code Reform and Social Security reform. Screw mucking around with social issues. Its time for the GOP to set its site on a hand full of things and get them done.

However more than likely certain GOP members will pressure Bush to relax the ban on funding of embryonic stem cell research. Gay marriage wont be touched at the federal level in all likelyhood, and abortion rests in the lap of the Supreme Court and it could take years for Roe V Wade to be redirected.

I hope the GOP does come up with a recipe for setting realistic goals and achieving them. I have doubts, however, that President Bush will sway in his position on Stem cell research.

 

[spidey07]

I don't think so.

there has been what I like to call the "wussification of america" and it started back in the early 90s with polictial correctness.

There are those that say "you must conform to our ideals no matter what the cost to liberty or how atrociously stupid it is" and they have been distancing themselves from america for a long time. Things like "we should love the terrorists" and "everybody is the same" no matter how different they are.

what you are seeing now is the backlash of telling people how they should think/act. So no, its time we get back on track and stop telling people how to think/act.

this is our agenda - to get America back on track to the great nation is used to be...not a wussified version.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: spidey07
I don't think so.

there has been what I like to call the "wussification of america" and it started back in the early 90s with polictial correctness.

There are those that say "you must conform to our ideals no matter what the cost to liberty or how atrociously stupid it is" and they have been distancing themselves from america for a long time. Things like "we should love the terrorists" and "everybody is the same" no matter how different they are.

what you are seeing now is the backlash of telling people how they should think/act. So no, its time we get back on track and stop telling people how to think/act.

this is our agenda - to get America back on track to the great nation is used to be...not a wussified version.

Sounds like you'd like this cartoon

 

[Steeplerot]

Common ground failed, these centrist democrat canidates are useless why pander to republican's base if your not a repug?
Back to the party itself and liberal values. The days of pandering to close minded fools is a failure.
Time to tax churches too if they think being a part of govt is so important then they can pay.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: alchemize
Given the complete inflexibility of the left, and their continued extremist views, I doubt we'll have much common ground. It's hard to have common ground with someone that hates you. Depends...maybe this forum is just an indicator of that rabid leftists, but maybe the democrat politicians will start to realize that the rabid leftists will still vote for them even if they ignore the screeches and hollers.

I am having a little trouble understanding how we can not find some common ground. Aside from Abortion and Gay marriage, I don't recall a lot of the goals of Republicans and Democrats being that different. I do recall questioning about the person best qualified to lead us towards our common goals. Most of Senator Kerry's claims were only to do what President Bush was doing, but to do it better.

Perhaps there may be a hidden Democratic Agenda that I am not aware of?

Again, look at the posts in this thread. And other threads. Nope, I think we are entering a culture war. Funny thing is, the bigotry and hate is all coming from the left, targeted at a specific religion and set of beliefs. Kinda reminds you of a time long ago. Republicans are communists, and Christians are Jews. They are even starting to hate Hispanics now, as evidenced by some threads popping up. They openly advocate violence and political assassination. They partner with filmmakers to distrubute propaganda. We had a thread about all the violence and intimidation against the GOP. All the civil war threads, the secession threads are coming from leftists. All the conspiracy threads are coming from leftists. They are more depressed about losing an election than losing 3,000 lives. Nope, unless they regain some common sense, I'm afraid there will be no compromise. Until they stop pandering to the minority, and start working with the moderate majority of democrats, there won't be any compromise. 20% of the people (or less) can't dictate what happens in this country. Just think, if WMD's had been found, this would have been a HUGE landslide. But even with that they couldn't win. Now they are bitter and full of hate.

 

[Steeplerot]

Yeah keep fooling yourself while the hate plays on the radio non-stop and chimpy can do no wrong on national tv.
Awww poor neocons and funa-headcases are victims now.
/crymeariver

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: spidey07
I don't think so.

there has been what I like to call the "wussification of america" and it started back in the early 90s with polictial correctness.

There are those that say "you must conform to our ideals no matter what the cost to liberty or how atrociously stupid it is" and they have been distancing themselves from america for a long time. Things like "we should love the terrorists" and "everybody is the same" no matter how different they are.

what you are seeing now is the backlash of telling people how they should think/act. So no, its time we get back on track and stop telling people how to think/act.

this is our agenda - to get America back on track to the great nation is used to be...not a wussified version.

Precisely who, and I mean precisely, has said these things. Who here said we should love the terrorists? Who said we should not protect ourselves from GENUINE threats? No one. Hyperbole. Fact is that those who oppose the Iraq War did so because it was a hoax. If not, where are those much talked about WMDs? No conjecture. We were told we knew what and where they were. We just let them get away and not watch ONE site? Nothing? Where are concrete ties to Saddam Al Queda? What did he have to do with 9/11? Where are the nukes? No where.

I have seen a lot of brave talk from foolish men long dead. They spoke mighty nice and were stupid enough to get killed in sensless situations.

You want people to stop telling others how to think, and I want the govt. out of trying to make people think a particular way. Stop lying to us.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: alchemize
Given the complete inflexibility of the left, and their continued extremist views, I doubt we'll have much common ground. It's hard to have common ground with someone that hates you. Depends...maybe this forum is just an indicator of that rabid leftists, but maybe the democrat politicians will start to realize that the rabid leftists will still vote for them even if they ignore the screeches and hollers.

I am having a little trouble understanding how we can not find some common ground. Aside from Abortion and Gay marriage, I don't recall a lot of the goals of Republicans and Democrats being that different. I do recall questioning about the person best qualified to lead us towards our common goals. Most of Senator Kerry's claims were only to do what President Bush was doing, but to do it better.

Perhaps there may be a hidden Democratic Agenda that I am not aware of?

Not being a Democrat, I cannot answer to agendas, but the last four years has suggested that Bush believes that compromise is a one way street. That is what many here liked about him, that he is "uncompromising". Well, I agree. He doesn't budge, however he welcomes anyone who adopts his POV. Sorry, but meaningful compromise is impossible except on trivial issues.

Education and Medicare prescription drugs were not trivial issues.

Here is a compromise. All records involving decision making and evidence leading to the invasion of Iraq get unfettered access by a special commission. Let's have an investigation and get on with things. In return, people get to know what happened and base sentiments on fact rather than conjecture. We get to know, and Bush gets off the hook if he acted properly.

This is an issue that I have absolutely no interest in. However, as a compromise, I would not oppose you in any way, shape or form in pursuing what you feel is an important issue. It would be hard work, but I am sure you could handle it, if it is that important to you.

That is the best I can do.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: alchemize
Given the complete inflexibility of the left, and their continued extremist views, I doubt we'll have much common ground. It's hard to have common ground with someone that hates you. Depends...maybe this forum is just an indicator of that rabid leftists, but maybe the democrat politicians will start to realize that the rabid leftists will still vote for them even if they ignore the screeches and hollers.

I am having a little trouble understanding how we can not find some common ground. Aside from Abortion and Gay marriage, I don't recall a lot of the goals of Republicans and Democrats being that different. I do recall questioning about the person best qualified to lead us towards our common goals. Most of Senator Kerry's claims were only to do what President Bush was doing, but to do it better.

Perhaps there may be a hidden Democratic Agenda that I am not aware of?

Not being a Democrat, I cannot answer to agendas, but the last four years has suggested that Bush believes that compromise is a one way street. That is what many here liked about him, that he is "uncompromising". Well, I agree. He doesn't budge, however he welcomes anyone who adopts his POV. Sorry, but meaningful compromise is impossible except on trivial issues.

Education and Medicare prescription drugs were not trivial issues.

Here is a compromise. All records involving decision making and evidence leading to the invasion of Iraq get unfettered access by a special commission. Let's have an investigation and get on with things. In return, people get to know what happened and base sentiments on fact rather than conjecture. We get to know, and Bush gets off the hook if he acted properly.

This is an issue that I have absolutely no interest in. However, as a compromise, I would not oppose you in any way, shape or form in pursuing what you feel is an important issue. It would be hard work, but I am sure you could handle it, if it is that important to you.

That is the best I can do.

Now THAT is fair enough, and I consider it a good start. Now can we convince leaders to go along with us? That is the issue. Can our LEADERS compromise?

 

[spidey07]

hey, that is just my observation that many people agree with. the wussification of america. And we're tired of it.

So I believe there are those that think the wussification of america is a good thing. Others think it isn't.

 

[Steeplerot]

Thanks I'll make sure neanderthal assh0le is on my agenda for the week.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith


Here is a compromise. All records involving decision making and evidence leading to the invasion of Iraq get unfettered access by a special commission. Let's have an investigation and get on with things. In return, people get to know what happened and base sentiments on fact rather than conjecture. We get to know, and Bush gets off the hook if he acted properly.

This is an issue that I have absolutely no interest in. However, as a compromise, I would not oppose you in any way, shape or form in pursuing what you feel is an important issue. It would be hard work, but I am sure you could handle it, if it is that important to you.

That is the best I can do.[/quote]

Now THAT is fair enough, and I consider it a good start. Now can we convince leaders to go along with us? That is the issue. Can our LEADERS compromise?

[/quote]

[*]It would be your chore to convince leaders to go along with you. I won't do the work for you.

[*]In the end we have a political process that determines the level of compromise among our leaders.
The way it works is that if you can get a majority of the people to agree with your POV on the issue, you have the political leverage to effect compromise.

 

[AFB]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Given the complete inflexibility of the left, and their continued extremist views, I doubt we'll have much common ground. It's hard to have common ground with someone that hates you. Depends...maybe this forum is just an indicator of that rabid leftists, but maybe the democrat politicians will start to realize that the rabid leftists will still vote for them even if they ignore the screeches and hollers.

:thumbsup:

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
There is no common ground, because with the exception of tax cuts, I'm on the polar opposite of every single issue there is. Tell me where Bush is and I'm 180-degrees of that. Furthermore, the only conservative agenda that will be advanced is the conservative social agenda. The conservative fiscal agenda will be back-burnered just like the first term and the R's will continue to spend like drunken sluts with their mom's credit card.

No it wont. You can expect both tax code reform and social security reform to be pushed in the first year.

Mmmm hmmm. And how much is that gonna cost us?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Can we find common ground, or are we simply to resign ourselves to four more years of vile hate filled rhetoric and hyperbole being exchanged and a deepening divide among party lines?

There is 51% of the Country perfectly happy to see the Country go down the toilet such as the OP.

There is 49% of the Country that still holds hope in saving it.

Pretty simple really.

 

[Rainsford]

Well why couldn't we find common ground? What with all the following issues being off limits for compromise:

# Abortion

# Stem cell research

# Morality

# Winning in Iraq

# War on terror

# Tax breaks

# Homeland security

# Faith based initiatives

# Gay marriage

# Judicial reform

# Tort reform

...And of course people like spidey characterizing the left as being for the wussification of America and many of the rest of you believing all the inflexibility lies with the left.

I mean let's step back from this for a second. You just said the most important issues of the day are things YOUR'RE not willing to compromise on, and all the inflexible behavior comes from the left. Are you serious? Do you listen to yourselves talk?

Look, I'm willing to accept that we on the left need to compromise. Since the election is over, I think we can dial down the anti-Bush stuff, that's certainly no longer productive unless some new things come up. But if anyone thinks the left is the only side with problems, they haven't been paying attention. "The left really needs to compromise more" is just silly, and if you don't think so, I'd like to hear why the right doesn't need to do anything different.

Seriously though, I think finding common ground will be tough. As long as people are more interested in their views winning than helping America, even if it's not exactly the way they want, we're going to be divided. This election was pretty divisive on the issues, it will take people looking at helping America, not looking at this as winning and losing. That's people on BOTH sides as far as I can tell.

 

[GrGr]

Compromise and dialogue is the wussy liberal way. Brute force is the resolute Republican way. Now that the Republicans control the White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, the CIA and the Pentagon they have a golden opportunity to ram through their agenda, don't you think?

 

[Rainsford]

To give a solid example of what I was talking about, I disagree with most conservatives and Bush on faith based initiatives, stem cell research and gay marriage. Now, even if I'm willing to compromise, I'm not willing to compromise all the way to the conservative view of things, that's not a compromise. So if you tell me those issues are off the table and I just need to accept your view of things as the start of "negotiations", that's a pretty bad point to start off with. The issues that matter to me aren't things you are willing to compromise on, don't you guys see a problem with this?

 

[BBond]

Finding Common Ground

Is it a realistic Goal?

NO.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: alchemize
Given the complete inflexibility of the left, and their continued extremist views, I doubt we'll have much common ground. It's hard to have common ground with someone that hates you. Depends...maybe this forum is just an indicator of that rabid leftists, but maybe the democrat politicians will start to realize that the rabid leftists will still vote for them even if they ignore the screeches and hollers.

I am having a little trouble understanding how we can not find some common ground. Aside from Abortion and Gay marriage, I don't recall a lot of the goals of Republicans and Democrats being that different. I do recall questioning about the person best qualified to lead us towards our common goals. Most of Senator Kerry's claims were only to do what President Bush was doing, but to do it better.

Perhaps there may be a hidden Democratic Agenda that I am not aware of?

Again, look at the posts in this thread. And other threads. Nope, I think we are entering a culture war. Funny thing is, the bigotry and hate is all coming from the left, targeted at a specific religion and set of beliefs. Kinda reminds you of a time long ago. Republicans are communists, and Christians are Jews. They are even starting to hate Hispanics now, as evidenced by some threads popping up. They openly advocate violence and political assassination. They partner with filmmakers to distrubute propaganda. We had a thread about all the violence and intimidation against the GOP. All the civil war threads, the secession threads are coming from leftists. All the conspiracy threads are coming from leftists. They are more depressed about losing an election than losing 3,000 lives. Nope, unless they regain some common sense, I'm afraid there will be no compromise. Until they stop pandering to the minority, and start working with the moderate majority of democrats, there won't be any compromise. 20% of the people (or less) can't dictate what happens in this country. Just think, if WMD's had been found, this would have been a HUGE landslide. But even with that they couldn't win. Now they are bitter and full of hate.

Maybe you are right...

I hope we can find common ground.

For our families and ourselves, we strive at a minimum to have a roof over our heads, food, water, and clothing for basic sustenance. That is the glue that bonds us together. Anything else over this is the product of what our society has evolved into. The extra's have become expected, I believe that is where our main divide occurs and it is what steer's us in different directions.

In an Ideological sense, pessimism, bitterness and hatred can't compete and will not overcome optimism and the willingness to compromise.

The ability to compromise is a part of our core, Alchemize. It is a part of our strength as well as our weakness. We may as well embrace it because it is what keeps us from physically eliminating those that refuse to compromise. It is what makes us civilized....

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: GrGr
Compromise and dialogue is the wussy liberal way. Brute force is the resolute Republican way. Now that the Republicans control the White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, the CIA and the Pentagon they have a golden opportunity to ram through their agenda, don't you think?

Only if they don't like being elected again. Remember, Moderates make up 45% of the voters, and they ALREADY leaned towards the Democrats in this election. All we'd need is Bush ramming conservative views down the rest of our throats to get many more of the Moderates on the liberal side of things.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: GrGr
Compromise and dialogue is the wussy liberal way. Brute force is the resolute Republican way. Now that the Republicans control the White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, the CIA and the Pentagon they have a golden opportunity to ram through their agenda, don't you think?

Only if they don't like being elected again. Remember, Moderates make up 45% of the voters, and they ALREADY leaned towards the Democrats in this election. All we'd need is Bush ramming conservative views down the rest of our throats to get many more of the Moderates on the liberal side of things.

Of course, but the Republicans could figure that the political price could be worth the long time results of their actions. I don't think the Republicans will do something too stupid, too direct and too obvious right away that will get the dems energized and on the warpath for real, but rather follow the "fuzzy muddled insiduous" strategy they did with medicare, tax cuts etc.

After the masterful job of selling the RNC strategy I think the Reps can get their supporters to eat out of their hands whenever they want to. Reality and facts have no meaning to too many of their supporters.

I think that this election will mark the real beginning of the end of the US as it has been shaped by FDR in the 1930's and WWII. The 2000 election might have been the real start of course but now we will see the agenda reach levels that will take generations to overturn. We will now see a US shaped after the much more austere ideals of the deep south (Texas) with pure capitalism and strong religious beliefs at the core.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: GrGr
Compromise and dialogue is the wussy liberal way. Brute force is the resolute Republican way. Now that the Republicans control the White House, the Senate, the House, the Supreme Court, the CIA and the Pentagon they have a golden opportunity to ram through their agenda, don't you think?

Only if they don't like being elected again.

I agree

the liberal side of things.

Clarity on what exactly this amounts to would be a huge boon to the Democratic party, IMHO. And in fact could define a level of compromise that is realistic.

Is being a Liberal to accept the position of every minor issue, regardless of the view of the majority?

Is being a liberal to deny the rights afforded to the majority in our political process?

Is being a Liberal being above the need to compromise?

Does being a Liberal entitle one to decide at what level compromise is acceptable?

 

[jjzelinski]

You know whats sad is that even if this country were attacked again I don't think it would bring people together.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
You know whats sad is that even if this country were attacked again I don't think it would bring people together.

When we're dealing with a political party that equates bi-partisanship with date rape what else can be expected?