Finally mustered the courage to reject religion.

[RedRooster]

Just like us looking back at old civilizations like the Greeks and Egyptians and their "Gods", in hundreds of years we will also be looked at as ignorant cavemen(whether its believing in our "God" or believing everything came from the head of a pin exploding). Its pathetic how uneducated and uninspired mankind is, we have nothing to be proud of in our beliefs of where the universe came from. No matter what, we're wrong. Guaranteed, everyone on Earth will be wrong.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

True the hypothesis as to be consistent with observable data. However often the observable data is more in the effect of something on something else rather than the ability to directly detect it, ie black holes.

That's all well and good, but my point was simply to highlight the difference between logical inconsistencies and empirical inconsistencies. You appeared to have them confused.

If I simply reject the concept of singularities based on the absence of the ability to see them I would not have all the data.

There is no such thing as "direct" observation. All observations are indirect to some extent, and it is only a matter of degree. Having said that, singularities are features of our mathematical models, not necessarily features of reality.

It is actually much harder to prove the nonexistence of something than you imply.

That depends on the something. I can prove that there exists no largest prime number, for example. More broadly, however, empiricism is incapable of "proof" in any capacity, so your point is a bit lost on the subject of science.

 

[Aikouka]

Seriously? After iyou acknowledge how ridiculous the original sentence was, you again chime in with "I am not going to force her."

Since you're committed to this, please explain to me how you would "force" your girlfriend to reject religion. You do realize that they have the right to vote now, right? Not sure if you missed that class in school.

I don't get it... are you trying to joke around? There's no emoticons to suggest so. Do you really not get what the point of the original remark was? It's a way of saying, "while I don't believe in it anymore, I respect your right to do so."

 

[Jeeebus]

I don't get it... are you trying to joke around? There's no emoticons to suggest so. Do you really not get what the point of the original remark was? It's a way of saying, "while I don't believe in it anymore, I respect your right to do so."

I understand what he's trying to say, but find his choice of words rather silly. She's free to do what she wants, she "complied," I'm not going to "force her" to change, etc.

I'm not Mr. Feminism, not by a long stretch, but there is definitely something off with his choice of words.

 

[busydude]

I understand what he's trying to say, but find his choice of words rather silly. She's free to do what she wants, she "complied," I'm not going to "force her" to change, etc.

I'm not Mr. Feminism, not by a long stretch, but there is definitely something off with his choice of words.

Why don't you teach me English Mr. Jeeebus, because I basically suck at that.

 

[Perknose]

Post your break up thread in L&R

Ok, this made me laugh! :thumbsup:

 

[mattpegher]

That's all well and good, but my point was simply to highlight the difference between logical inconsistencies and empirical inconsistencies. You appeared to have them confused.


There is no such thing as "direct" observation. All observations are indirect to some extent, and it is only a matter of degree. Having said that, singularities are features of our mathematical models, not necessarily features of reality.


That depends on the something. I can prove that there exists no largest prime number, for example. More broadly, however, empiricism is incapable of "proof" in any capacity, so your point is a bit lost on the subject of science.

Very good points. You sir would be one I would assume would chose to respectfull decline the premise that a god exists and refrain from the hubris that many choose to exhibit. That said I dispise the hubris that the devout (holier than thou) choose to exhibit as well. As you most certainly have noticed, that when the two opposing sides interact on ATOT neither side is enriched by the conversation. Often they are speaking a different language.

Thank you for this intelligent discussion.

 

[mattpegher]

Just like us looking back at old civilizations like the Greeks and Egyptians and their "Gods", in hundreds of years we will also be looked at as ignorant cavemen(whether its believing in our "God" or believing everything came from the head of a pin exploding). Its pathetic how uneducated and uninspired mankind is, we have nothing to be proud of in our beliefs of where the universe came from. No matter what, we're wrong. Guaranteed, everyone on Earth will be wrong.

You are certainly right. If anything, we should have learned to recognize the limits of our understanding.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Rejecting religion is like rejecting magical unicorns and fairies; it doesn't take courage, it simply takes a moment of critical thinking.

Oh, no, trust me, a magical unicorn's power can blow right past any attempt to reason.

 

[lupi]

just think, you're now more like neckbeard.

 

[mrjminer]

Welcome to the world of logical and rational thought.

 

[RisenZealot]

I respect anyone and everyone but it saddens me how the non believers look down upon anyone who has religion as being uneducated and incapable of critical thought. This is absolutely crazy and if followed down the line they have their own belief in a fantasy.

Sure science can explain many things, in fact I believe we should always work to learn more about our world and others. Put simply though no matter how much of a "science" person you are, you cannot claim to be any more capable of critical thought then a person with religion. In the end science will always go back to a point it simply cannot explain. Everything has to come from somewhere, so if that's the case where did the stuff needed to set this entire course of events in motion come from?

You can't explain it, you can't see it and you will never be able to. So save us from your praises on how you only believe in science and what can be proven when by the very nature of science itself once taken back to the start it's a big a fairy tale as any.

 

[busydude]

just think, you're now more like neckbeard.

That statement saddens me a lot. :'(

 

[RisenZealot]

Let me explain a little more.

Just to be clear I don't want anyone to think I am against science or think it is evil. Science is a great thing and it can explain numerous things and it can open our eyes to more possibilities then we could have ever imagined.

All I'm trying to say is that it should not, and can not be used to determine how this universe came to be. It's simply not possible.

 

[SMOGZINN]

You can't explain it, you can't see it and you will never be able to. So save us from your praises on how you only believe in science and what can be proven when by the very nature of science itself once taken back to the start it's a big a fairy tale as any.

The difference is that when we hit the point where science is not yet able to answer a question a reasonable person will say that is okay, I don't have to know everything.
Religious people start making up stuff and trying to convince everyone else that it is true. Failing that they try killing any one that does not believe their made up stories.

 

[RisenZealot]

The difference is that when we hit the point where science is not yet able to answer a question a reasonable person will say that is okay, I don't have to know everything.
Religious people start making up stuff and trying to convince everyone else that it is true. Failing that they try killing any one that does not believe their made up stories.

You're right a reasonable person would say that is ok and that we cannot know everything.

However it seems to me that a reasonable person would also have to admit then anything short of a God (if one existed) would have to come from somewhere...

Seriously, there is no remote answer in science for this.

Oh we think a big bang happened. Ok, I'm willing to accept that as possible. There is even evidence for it. However, where did the materials needed for the Big Bang come from? Where did the materials needed for them come from? You can continue to go back and say you don't know. Seems quite reasonable to me that someone should be able to admit there had to be a designer somewhere.

Look I'm not saying you're wrong and I am not saying you will go to hell. I'm not even saying I am right.

All I'm saying is I have a belief in God. It is my religion. I am educated as well. Science to this point has only been able to give me so much. Science and the so called "free thinkers" would have me throw away my religion when the best they can give me is "a big bang, and uh we have no clue where the shit came from or how it got here".

Sorry it's just not enoigh.

 

[SMOGZINN]

You're right a reasonable person would say that is ok and that we cannot know everything.

However it seems to me that a reasonable person would also have to admit then anything short of a God (if one existed) would have to come from somewhere...

Seriously, there is no remote answer in science for this.

Oh we think a big bang happened. Ok, I'm willing to accept that as possible. There is even evidence for it. However, where did the materials needed for the Big Bang come from? Where did the materials needed for them come from? You can continue to go back and say you don't know. Seems quite reasonable to me that someone should be able to admit there had to be a designer somewhere.

Look I'm not saying you're wrong and I am not saying you will go to hell. I'm not even saying I am right.

All I'm saying is I have a belief in God. It is my religion. I am educated as well. Science to this point has only been able to give me so much. Science and the so called "free thinkers" would have me throw away my religion when the best they can give me is "a big bang, and uh we have no clue where the shit came from or how it got here".

Sorry it's just not enoigh.

The problem is that a reasonable mind would ask the same question of a god. Where did he come from? Where did the materials for him come from? The answer religious folk always come up with is that he has always existed. Well, my reasonable mind then says, then why couldn't the universe have always existed? Why can we magically give one a special property but not the other?

 

[eits]

After 25 years.. I finally give up. Already feels like a huge burden has been lifted from my shoulder. I just spoke with my GF, who is extremely religious BTW, about this and she seems to take it better than I initially thought. I also told her that she is free to follow her faith and she complied.

That said; I still don't think Hinduism is bad.. just like the constitution of India. My biggest gripe is the caste system..it is just not relevant in this day and age. I will be waiting, in hope, for that day to come.

People of no faith - UNTIE!!!

/blog

it's good to know that you allowed her to believe in whatever she believed. how cool of you.

 

[busydude]

it's good to know that you allowed her to believe in whatever she believed. how cool of you.

Damn it. I'll edit that part out.. I said before that it was poor choice of words.

 

[sandorski]

I respect anyone and everyone but it saddens me how the non believers look down upon anyone who has religion as being uneducated and incapable of critical thought. This is absolutely crazy and if followed down the line they have their own belief in a fantasy.

Sure science can explain many things, in fact I believe we should always work to learn more about our world and others. Put simply though no matter how much of a "science" person you are, you cannot claim to be any more capable of critical thought then a person with religion. In the end science will always go back to a point it simply cannot explain. Everything has to come from somewhere, so if that's the case where did the stuff needed to set this entire course of events in motion come from?

You can't explain it, you can't see it and you will never be able to. So save us from your praises on how you only believe in science and what can be proven when by the very nature of science itself once taken back to the start it's a big a fairy tale as any.

Given this post, it is easy to see why you run into the situation of being called "uneducated". Perhaps there's more to it than others just being assholes?

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

I respect anyone and everyone but it saddens me how the non believers look down upon anyone who has religion as being uneducated and incapable of critical thought. This is absolutely crazy and if followed down the line they have their own belief in a fantasy.

Sure science can explain many things, in fact I believe we should always work to learn more about our world and others. Put simply though no matter how much of a "science" person you are, you cannot claim to be any more capable of critical thought then a person with religion. In the end science will always go back to a point it simply cannot explain. Everything has to come from somewhere, so if that's the case where did the stuff needed to set this entire course of events in motion come from?

You can't explain it, you can't see it and you will never be able to. So save us from your praises on how you only believe in science and what can be proven when by the very nature of science itself once taken back to the start it's a big a fairy tale as any.

So where did god come from?

Just because we don't know where the big band singularity came from doesn't mean it was magic. We just don't understant it's origin yet.

Saying a magical man did it is just stupid. That is why we call religious people uneducated.

 

[Wanescotting]

So where did god come from?

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

What if "religion" is part of the "plan"?
some follow blindly, other question and still follow, yet others question and don't follow. I would say that your "rejection" of religion will bring you closer to "god"...by choosing to see things as they are, rather than the way they should be, you have (OP) have removed the burden of illusion from your life.....

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

You're right a reasonable person would say that is ok and that we cannot know everything.

However it seems to me that a reasonable person would also have to admit then anything short of a God (if one existed) would have to come from somewhere...

I can answer that question for you right now.

The state of the universe at any time T came from the state of the universe at T minus one attosecond.

Glad we cleared that up. If that doesn't satisfy you, then you have some additional unfounded assumptions about time and the universe which are your problem, not mine.

Oh we think a big bang happened. Ok, I'm willing to accept that as possible. There is even evidence for it. However, where did the materials needed for the Big Bang come from? Where did the materials needed for them come from?

They were likely always in existence. Please refresh your knowledge of the first law of thermodynamics.

You can continue to go back and say you don't know. Seems quite reasonable to me that someone should be able to admit there had to be a designer somewhere.

On what basis? The realization of a gap in one's knowledge is not a license to arbitrarily fill the gap with whatever suits your fancy.

All I'm saying is I have a belief in God. It is my religion. I am educated as well. Science to this point has only been able to give me so much. Science and the so called "free thinkers" would have me throw away my religion when the best they can give me is "a big bang, and uh we have no clue where the shit came from or how it got here".

I would rather believe fewer things that are true than to believe even one thing that is false.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I like mustard

Horseradish?

 

[Perknose]

So where did god come from?

Certainly not New Jersey, I can tell you that much.