Fermi's already have significant price drops

[GaiaHunter]

I don't think the bickering about Steam Survey figures was on-topic though.

Yes but who started it? And not for the first time? And people prove him wrong (disproving/proving numbers based on public data is easy, unlike feelings/opinions) and he keeps not acknowledge it.

Should we have just ignored him? Let him say lies?

If I or someone was here saying "AMD processors are much better than Intel look at these numbers" you or Keys would just stay there without doing nothing, letting the person repeat it?

Isn't posting false information intentionally (and I can only think it has to be intentionally due to repetition even after numbers proved he was wrong on making such claims) against forum rules?

The problem here is that I have this feeling that if the situation was reversed and while data presented pointed that NVIDIA was beating AMD 3:1 on high end someone was claiming AMD was outselling NVIDIA, Keys actions wouldn't be the same. Maybe I've the wrong feeling - but facts is I only know Keys from here, likewise Keys only knows me from here, so I can't know better.

 

[mckickflip]

I would really love it if Fermi cards had a sudden giant price drop. I suppose it's possible seeing as supposedly the factories making Fermi chips are refusing to make any more until nVidia sells more cards. I'd get a Fermi if it dropped to around/below $100 soon (although that's very unlikely).

 

[Scali]

But for example I've my differences with Scali, but while he has his biases (and I like to bash him if he tries to pass his bias as facts without support) he doesn't seem a fanboy troll like this guy Lonbjerg.

I think 'bias' is a wrong word. 'Preference' is what you're looking for.
'Bias' is generally associated with brand, and I never go for a brand.
My computing history started in 1981, and if you track it, you'll see that I've jumped from brand to brand many (MANY) times. Aside from the fact that I have used more than just x86 PCs, I've also used way more video chips than just ATi and nVidia. Plantronics, Western Digital, Cirrus Logic, Tseng Labs, S3, PowerVR, Matrox... you name it. Given such a 'rich' history of hardware, it's pretty ridiculous to try and paint me as brand-biased or even brand-loyal.
I just buy what I prefer at the time, mostly for technical reasons, although price and availability may play a factor aswell.

 

[Scali]

Personally I think the answer is to leave threads alone that you aren't interested in (clearly like this one)

Actually, I went into this thread because of the title: I am very much interested in Fermi price drops.
For me, Fermi has two downsides:
1) Too much power consumption.
2) Too expensive.

If the price becomes attractive enough, I may be able to get over the power consumption issue. I'm eagerly awaiting the GTX460, hoping it will improve Fermi on both points for me.

 

[Scali]

If I or someone was here saying "AMD processors are much better than Intel look at these numbers" you or Keys would just stay there without doing nothing, letting the person repeat it?

I think you know what I do when I don't agree

Anyway, regarding your suspicions towards Keys... does it matter?
I mean, if he would respond differently in another situation (which we cannot judge at this moment), does that make his current response any less valid?
I smell a fallacy.

 

[mckickflip]

Actually, I went into this thread because of the title: I am very much interested in Fermi price drops.
For me, Fermi has two downsides:
1) Too much power consumption.
2) Too expensive.

If the price becomes attractive enough, I may be able to get over the power consumption issue. I'm eagerly awaiting the GTX460, hoping it will improve Fermi on both points for me.

These are my thoughts. My PSU is only 370W, but it's rather nice so I should be able to sell it if need be. I'd get a new PSU + Fermi if I could get a Fermi for less than a 5670, but still, a 5670 will at least run on my current PSU.

 

[GaiaHunter]

I think you know what I do when I don't agree

Anyway, regarding your suspicions towards Keys... does it matter?
I mean, if he would respond differently in another situation (which we cannot judge at this moment), does that make his current response any less valid?
I smell a fallacy.

Look, do you think Lonbjerg argument that NVIDIA is selling more cards than AMD based on steam numbers have any validity?

Since you aren't dumb, I'm guessing you won't.

So I doubt you will call fanboys to someone pointing him where he is wrong.

I don't have to judge Keys based on a hypothetical situation - what I know is that in this specific situation (and 2 times that I know of this specific situation) Keys decided the best approach was calling everybody fanboys - I'm sorry but that is what I see when I read Video Company Enthusiasts as opposed to Video Enthusiasts. He can't assume neutrality by treating everybody and everything the same when they are different. Or actually he can, but he has to be prepared for people to not see it like that

This is the way I see it.

 

[tincart]

Yes but who started it? And not for the first time? And people prove him wrong (disproving/proving numbers based on public data is easy, unlike feelings/opinions) and he keeps not acknowledge it.

Should we have just ignored him? Let him say lies?

Hello, and welcome to the internet!

 

[mckickflip]

Look, do you think Lonbjerg argument that NVIDIA is selling more cards than AMD based on steam numbers have any validity?

Since you aren't dumb, I'm guessing you won't.

So I doubt you will call fanboys to someone pointing him where he is wrong.

I don't have to judge Keys based on a hypothetical situation - what I know is that in this specific situation (and 2 times that I know of this specific situation) Keys decided the best approach was calling everybody fanboys - I'm sorry but that is what I see when I read Video Company Enthusiasts as opposed to Video Enthusiasts. He can't assume neutrality by treating everybody and everything the same when they are different. Or actually he can, but he has to be prepared for people to not see it like that

This is the way I see it.

I have an idea. Let's stop getting angry about the internet and talk about what is realistic and what we can expect in terms of Fermi price drops. I mean, the point of this thread was to talk about Fermi price drops.

 

[waffleironhead]

So, should I now make a formal request for a forum with this title?

"Video Card Company Enthusiasts"

I mentioned this once before, but most of you guys are off the chain with this stuff and I really believe that the actual graphics card enthusiasts/troubleshooters should be able to enter a forum without having to wade through oceans of company demographics, sales ratings, market share wins and so on. Way back when, nobody cared about this stuff. All they cared about was how a graphics card performs and even why it performs better than another, cost of the card (not what it costs the company to make the card). Anyone disagree? It would just be nice to get back to the roots of graphics card conversation instead of spreadsheets. MHO.

I think you knew the what was going to be discussed in this thread before you stepped in, and so should others. If the thread was titled "Nvidia architicture discussion" or "Performance of XXX vs XXX" and it strayed into cost, sales, etc, then you may have a point about OT type things. If you see a topic you dont want to read or participate, then maybe you( and others) shouldn't enter. IMO, this thread does pertain to "Video cards and graphics". Any further fragmentation into more subforums is unwarranted IMO.

Good job at derailing this thread btw. :thumbsdown:

 

[tincart]

These are my thoughts. My PSU is only 370W, but it's rather nice so I should be able to sell it if need be. I'd get a new PSU + Fermi if I could get a Fermi for less than a 5670, but still, a 5670 will at least run on my current PSU.

I agree as well. I passed over the 5870 and was waiting for the 480 to see if upgrading this generation would be worthwhile. In general, I buy the fastest single-GPU card of each generation I adopt. When the 480 came out I saw that I would have to upgrade my PSU in order to run one. No thanks. Add the price of a good PSU onto a 480 and my wallet snaps firmly shut. A new PSU generally goes in with a new build.

Given the extra investment required, a 480 would have to be at parity with or cheaper than a 5870 to make it worthwhile.

 

[Nemesis 1]

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/06/11/what-are-the-bestworst-stocks-of-2010/

If ya would have Shorted NV as I told ha 2 you could have enjoyed some nice gains.

 

[GaiaHunter]

I have an idea. Let's stop getting angry about the internet and talk about what is realistic and what we can expect in terms of Fermi price drops. I mean, the point of this thread was to talk about Fermi price drops.

I'm not angry - it is impossible to be angry about the internet when the temperature is 40ºC/104ºF and your AC just died... :thumbsdown:

About Fermi price drops and AMD prices drops due to Fermi pressure - it would be great and there has been good deals but nothing generalized/permanent/official.

I still wouldn't buy a GTX 480 but a GTX 470 for €250 or less could be nice. Of course a GTX 460 or a 5850 that performs close to it, consumes less power and it is even cheaper would be even better.

I guess if I was buying this gen I would give up a bit of performance and NVIDIA exclusive features (that are of marginal use to me at best) for better power consumption/heat and some change in my pocket.

Last gen interestingly was about passing NVIDIA exclusive features/better power at idle/bit of performance for some extra money in the pocket.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I'm not angry - it is impossible to be angry about the internet when the temperature is 40ºC/104ºF and your AC just died... :thumbsdown:

About Fermi price drops and AMD prices drops due to Fermi pressure - it would be great and there has been good deals but nothing generalized/permanent/official.

I still wouldn't buy a GTX 480 but a GTX 470 for €250 or less could be nice. Of course a GTX 460 or a 5850 that performs close to it, consumes less power and it is even cheaper would be even better.

I guess if I was buying this gen I would give up a bit of performance and NVIDIA exclusive features (that are of marginal use to me at best) for better power consumption/heat and some change in my pocket.

Last gen interestingly was about passing NVIDIA exclusive features/better power at idle/bit of performance for some extra money in the pocket.

A little OT . My area again is enjoying wonderful weather as far as temps go . Same as last year. 1 day above 90F is all so far this year . My family must remain comfortable and stay intact.

 

[evolucion8]

Last gen interestingly was about passing NVIDIA exclusive features/better power at idle/bit of performance for some extra money in the pocket.

Even though it didn't had DX10.1 and had a less than stellar video processor, they had a very nice power consumption at idle considering their huge size compared to competition, and they consumption at load wasn't much higher than ATi's equivalent. I have a question, where do you live? I'm currently experiment temperatures between 88F and 92F with a heat index of 100F/107F, I can really feel the heat of my CF setup.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Even though it didn't had DX10.1 and had a less than stellar video processor. I have a questions, where do you live? I'm currently experiment temperatures between 88F and 92F with a heat index of 100F/107F, I can really feel the heat of my CF setup.

Currently in Lisbon, Portugal. This last weak has been a oven around here (even nights hasn't been refreshing much and keep staying at high 20ºC (77F-86F)) and my father keeps ringing to tell me the water in the south of the country is great - bastard!

Well, generally I can feel the heat of my rig increasing room temperature after a few hours usage (Athlon x2 6000 with a 4850) - now can't even notice it although the system temperature increased like 4-5 ºC last few days at idle at same fan speed.

 

[imaheadcase]

You can tell yourself whatever you'd like to make you imagine Nvidia is doing well with "Fermi". However from the link you've provided, Steam's hardware survey shows that for every 2 gamers out there with a GTX470 or GTX480, there are 25 gamers with ATI Radeon HD5700's or HD5800's.

That's not just a staggering lead, that is being completely crushed my friend.

Considering how long ATI has cards based on the survey of course. But considering that only covers 3 months with Nvidia cards...

 

[GaiaHunter]

Considering how long ATI has cards based on the survey of course. But considering that only covers 3 months with Nvidia cards...

Last month it was still 3:1 between 5800 vs 470/480 - so yeah not as big, but not a draw either.

 

[mckickflip]

Currently in Lisbon, Portugal. This last weak has been a oven around here (even nights hasn't been refreshing much and keep staying at high 20ºC (77F-86F)) and my father keeps ringing to tell me the water in the south of the country is great - bastard!

Well, generally I can feel the heat of my rig increasing room temperature after a few hours usage (Athlon x2 6000 with a 4850) - now can't even notice it although the system temperature increased like 4-5 ºC last few days at idle at same fan speed.

ugh, that sucks! i like to stay where it's freezing cold all year long.

i'm running a 27" lcd at 1920x1080 off of crappy integrated VGA graphics, i don't know if i can keep this up for long if I play anything other than CS 1.6. i don't know if i can hold out for when the current lineup of Fermis become shovelware.

 

[evolucion8]

Currently in Lisbon, Portugal. This last weak has been a oven around here (even nights hasn't been refreshing much and keep staying at high 20ºC (77F-86F)) and my father keeps ringing to tell me the water in the south of the country is great - bastard!

Well, generally I can feel the heat of my rig increasing room temperature after a few hours usage (Athlon x2 6000 with a 4850) - now can't even notice it although the system temperature increased like 4-5 ºC last few days at idle at same fan speed.

Wow, considering that Portugal is quite above the ecuator line, I live in Puerto Rico and the humidity is unbearable. I was on Germany two weeks ago and the highs were at 84 and the lows were at 42, quite contradictory.

Back on topic, considering that my CF setup dissipates more heat than a single GTX 480, I think that I can manage to survive owning one.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Wow, considering that Portugal is quite above the ecuator line, I live in Puerto Rico and the humidity is unbearable. I was on Germany two weeks ago and the highs were at 84 and the lows were at 42, quite contradictory.

Back on topic, considering that my CF setup dissipates more heat than a single GTX 480, I think that I can manage to survive owning one.

Well at least according to the news yesterday was supposedly the hottest day of the year - 50ºC/122ºF on the hottest place (http://translate.google.com/transla...-tvi24-alentejo/1175518-4071.html&sl=pt&tl=en) although a bit controversial news - so hopefully will start to get better.

My main problem would be the noise, I hate the repetitive noise of a fan - I keep thinking of buying a custom cooler for this CPU because of the noise but I never intended to keep this CPU for long so keep not doing it. Fortunately after cleaning it I was able to reduce temperatures by quite a good margin allowing me to reduce the fan speed from 4000-5000+ rpm to 2800-3800 rpm, reducing the noise by quite a good amount.

The 4850 (powercolor pcs+) is basically silent at 50% fan and hardly audible at 75% - I have it OC at 720/1050 and the air-flow is good enough that doesn't cause the box to heat up at higher fan speeds.

 

[nitromullet]

Well, it looks like the "price drops" were more of a newegg 4th of July holiday sale than anything else. The cheapest GTX 470 (MSI) was $299.99, now back up to $329.99. With an MSRP of $350, the current street pricing of ~$330-$360 is about what I would expect to see.

...I might bite on a second one for $300 or less (I'd have to buy a $100 waterblock too), but I'm not interested for any more than $300.

 

[Martimus]

So, should I now make a formal request for a forum with this title?

"Video Card Company Enthusiasts"

I mentioned this once before, but most of you guys are off the chain with this stuff and I really believe that the actual graphics card enthusiasts/troubleshooters should be able to enter a forum without having to wade through oceans of company demographics, sales ratings, market share wins and so on. Way back when, nobody cared about this stuff. All they cared about was how a graphics card performs and even why it performs better than another, cost of the card (not what it costs the company to make the card). Anyone disagree? It would just be nice to get back to the roots of graphics card conversation instead of spreadsheets. MHO.

I love the idea, I just don't see how it could work without heavy moderation. That would really increase your workload though, so I commend you for recommending it.

I know that I get caught up in it myself on occasion, and I apologize for my occasional outbursts as well. I have no issue with heavy moderation, and have never been upset with any of the warnings I have gotten.

EDIT: Again, I responded to a thread derailment, instead of the actual thread. I need to get out of that habit!

On topic though, I am very interested in Fermi price drops. This is the reason I started reading this thread. I had hoped it was the harbinger of a new line of lower power Fermi cards, or an early strike to move more inventory before the Southern Islands release with better Tesselation. After reading the first few pages of the thread, it appears to be due to low demand for current Fermi products, and the release of the 460 though.

 

[kalrith]

lmao! I hadn't seen that one before.

Personally, I'm all for any sort of price drops from either company. Even though I'm an ATI fan (but not fanboy...I've owned several nVidia cards), I'm also for the success of Fermi. The more successful Fermi is, the more pressure it places on ATI, and the better the prices that result from it.

 

[Skurge]

Hey now, you don't to go and say the only people who are fanbois are the younger members. I'm 19 btw.

Well Fermis have dropped in price here. Now the 480 is a bit less than a 5970 at $844 vs $910 for a 5970. 470s are now $653 they are still more expensive than the most expensive 5870s at $625.