Falklands War part 2?

[RabidMongoose]

OK then why do you think the Pope had the authority to grant all of South America to Spain or Portugal? Even the parts of it that had not been discovered.

I don't find that are particularly legitimate, but it's about as legitimate as colonialist tendencies. So I consider it a valid claim if colonialist tendencies are considered to be valid claims. Moreover, the Spanish claim is more than just from the Pope. Anything else?

 

[RabidMongoose]

Intellectual dishonesty is to deny people s sayings and replacing
them by a what suit your twisted point , wich is indeed your usual
rethoric at P&N...

I clearly stated that the guy was ignorant of past history wich
he said about it that it was shit , hence the comparison with
nazis that were ignorant of contemporary art.

Just ignore him, he always goes off-topic, it's his routine to just attack other posters. Let's stick to the issues.

 

[WelshBloke]

I've already stated that I believe that all of Argentina's claims are valid and more specific, I believe that the aggregate of Argentina's claims are legitimate. Do you have any specific questions?

I don't find that are particularly legitimate, but it's about as legitimate as colonialist tendencies. So I consider it a valid claim if colonialist tendencies are considered to be valid claims. Anything else?

So you're happy that the Pope can carve up undiscovered lands and disperse them as he sees fit.

Some anti colonialist you are.

You hadn't even read Argentina's claims had you?

 

[monovillage]

Just ignore him, he always goes off-topic, it's his routine to just attack other posters. Let's stick to the issues.

What issue? I'm still waiting for you to give the reason that Argentina is trying to claim the Falklands. You won't say, you have never said and your links don't show it.

 

[RabidMongoose]

So you're happy that the Pope can carve up undiscovered lands and disperse them as he sees fit.

Some anti colonialist you are.

You hadn't even read Argentina's claims had you?

I think that's about as legitimate as colonialist tendencies. Moreover, as I stated, the Spanish claim is more than just from the Pope. Their claim, which also originates through the French, is IMO vastly superior to the British colonial claim. If we want to go by finders keepers or who controlled first, then obviously the Spanish through the French win over the British.

However, as I've stated earlier, I don't find this to be the determinative law.

 

[WelshBloke]

What issue? I'm still waiting for you to give the reason that Argentina is trying to claim the Falklands. You won't say, you have never said and your links don't show it.

He believes the Pope was right to carve up the new world in 1493.

 

[RabidMongoose]

What issue? I'm still waiting for you to give the reason that Argentina is trying to claim the Falklands. You won't say, you have never said and your links don't show it.

I have, please go back and read the thread instead of posting either a lie or a factually incorrect post.

 

[WelshBloke]

I have, please go back and read the thread instead of posting either a lie or a factually incorrect post.

Would it have been a link to the page that starts off with

Sovereignty over the Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas in Spanish)[1] is disputed between Argentina and the United Kingdom.
The British claim to de jure sovereignty dates from 1690, and the United Kingdom has exercised de facto sovereignty over the archipelago almost constantly since 1833. Argentina has long disputed this claim, having been in control of the islands for a brief period prior to 1833. The dispute escalated in 1982, when Argentina invaded the islands, precipitating the Falklands War.

And that link doesnt say why Argentina is doing it which is what monovillage asked. He's right

You won't say, you have never said and your links don't show it.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Would it have been a link to the page that starts off with

Sorry, but Finders Keepers isn't determinative law. The French were the first to have control over the Malvinas and the Spanish acquired the French interest in the Malvinas. So if we go by colonialist tendencies, obviously the Spanish through the French trump the British since they acquired control afterwards.

I suggest that you read more about the link that you quoted. It would help you out a lot, IMO.

Moreover, that link has Argentinian claims. Please read the article since it appears that you have little understanding of this issue. Thanks!

 

[WelshBloke]

Sorry, but Finders Keepers isn't determinative law. The French were the first to have control over the Malvinas and the Spanish acquired the French interest in the Malvinas. So if we go by colonialist tendencies, obviously the Spanish through the French trump the British since they acquired control afterwards.

I like the way the first sentence there negates everything else you say in that paragraph.:biggrin:

I suggest that you read more about the link that you quoted. It would help you out a lot, IMO.

Moreover, that link has Argentinian claims. Please read the article since it appears that you have little understanding of this issue. Thanks!

You have 110 posts in this thread ether link again or point out the post number.

And that link also has the UK claims which look a lot stronger.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I like the way the first sentence there negates everything else you say in that paragraph.:biggrin:

Yep, I don't believe that colonialism tendencies should determine who wins, but even if we do go by colonialist tendencies as the pro-UK posters here want, the UK obviously loses.

You have 110 posts in this thread ether link again or point out the post number.

And that link also has the UK claims which look a lot stronger.

That link has Argentinian claims, which I believe are far more valid than UK claims. Moreover, if we want to go by pro-colonialist claims as posters here seem to do, then obviously Argentina wins out in that end, too.

How do you feel about the colonialist claims?

 

[Doppel]

I wonder here who supports Argentina's claims over this land is ready to vacate their home tomorrow if I can find a native american who's great ancestor used to live on the land.

Almost two hundred years ago England gained control of an area which today consists of people who want to remain part of England. And, for grins, England even offered to settle the matter in court in the 20th century, but Argentina said no (because they knew they'd lose) and instead tried to take England on militarily. They lost, and now bring this issue up as a way to galvanize its people against more important issues at home (kind of like how the US does with terrorism).

It's as retarded as a group of Native Americans getting together and saying hell Utah is now our state and we want it. Nobody in Utah wants that, but to hell with them, Utah is no longer part of the US, even though it was settled a couple hundred years ago by ancestors of current inhabitants.

 

[WelshBloke]

Yep, I don't believe that colonialism tendencies should determine who wins, but even if we do go by colonialist tendencies as the pro-UK posters here want, the UK obviously loses.





That link has Argentinian claims, which I believe are far more valid than UK claims. Moreover, if we want to go by pro-colonialist claims as posters here seem to do, then obviously Argentina wins out in that end, too.

How do you feel about the colonialist claims?

I believe that land has no rights but that the people that live on that land have rights.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I wonder here who supports Argentina's claims over this land is ready to vacate their home tomorrow if I can find a native american who's great ancestor used to live on the land.

Almost two hundred years ago England gained control of an area which today consists of people who want to remain part of England. And, for grins, England even offered to settle the matter in court in the 20th century, but Argentina said no (because they knew they'd lose) and instead tried to take England on militarily. They lost, and now bring this issue up as a way to galvanize its people against more important issues at home (kind of like how the US does with terrorism).

Argentina wants to settle this matter through peaceful negotiations today. The fact that Argentina said no quite a while ago under a different regime doesn't make it wrong to want to go through peaceful negotiations today.

How would you feel if Argentina occupied an island near the UK mainland, expelled the people currently there, put their own citizens on the island, and then asked if they wanted to be British or Argentinian? Sorry, but I don't believe that British colonialist acts should be rewarded.

 

[WelshBloke]

Argentina wants to settle this matter through peaceful negotiations today. The fact that Argentina said no quite a while ago under a different regime doesn't make it wrong to want to go through peaceful negotiations today.

How would you feel if Argentina occupied an island near the UK mainland, expelled the people currently there, put their own citizens on the island, and then asked if they wanted to be British or Argentinian? Sorry, but I don't believe that British colonialist acts should be rewarded.

They did.

The Spanish expelled the British colony in 1770, but it was restored in 1771 following British threats of war over the islands.

 

[Fern]

How is Chile closer?

Does Chile make any claims on the Malvinas anyways? Chile actually supports the Argentinians here.

Look at a map. One was linked above somewhere.

A part of Chile goes Eastward to the Atlantic Ocean, cutting Argentina in half. That part of Chile's coastline looks to be closer to the Falklands.

Fern

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Argentina wants to settle this matter through peaceful negotiations today.

As far as everyone else is concerned there is nothing to resolve, the islands are British and wish to remain that way. Argentina is simply throwing a tantrum like a jealous child.

 

[RabidMongoose]

They did.

That's about the Spanish expelling the later founded British colony. The French were the first with control and a colony, then the British came in despite the French presence. The Spanish acquired the French interest and then expelled the British.

However, this issue is irrelevant to the issue that I brought up about Argentinians expelling British people from a British island. Your case is Spanish people expelling British people from Spanish territory.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Look at a map. One was linked above somewhere.

A part of Chile goes Eastward to the Atlantic Ocean, cutting Argentina in half. That part of Chile's coastline looks to be closer to to the Falklands.

Fern

That is incorrect. You need to look at the map more closely. The tip of that area that is closest to the Malvinas is Argentinian territory.

 

[WelshBloke]

That's about the Spanish expelling the later founded British colony. The French were the first with control and a colony, then the British came in despite the French presence. The Spanish acquired the French interest and then expelled the British.

However, this issue is irrelevant to the issue that I brought up about Argentinians expelling British people from a British island. Your case is Spanish people expelling British people from Spanish territory.

OK when did British people expel Argentinian people then?

 

[RabidMongoose]

OK when did British people expel Argentinian people then?

1833 is one instance where at least some Argentinians were expelled. However, this point is irrelevant. The issue is that Argentina could tkae over a UK island, keep it under its control for years, and then after generations say "do you guys want to be British or Argentinian?"

It's a rigged vote that actively promotes illegitimate colonialist behavior.

 

[WelshBloke]

1833 is one instance where at least some Argentinians were expelled. However, this point is irrelevant. The issue is that Argentina could tkae over a UK island, keep it under its control for years, and then after generations say "do you guys want to be British or Argentinian?"

It's a rigged vote that actively promotes illegitimate colonialist behavior.

If Argentina took over a British Island with the support of the inhabitants for 170 years I'd support them as well.

 

[Doppel]

How would you feel if Argentina occupied an island near the UK mainland, expelled the people currently there, put their own citizens on the island, and then asked if they wanted to be British or Argentinian? Sorry, but I don't believe that British colonialist acts should be rewarded.

I'll answer your hypothetical if you can tell me you're willing to vacate where you live if i can find a native american who's ancestor was forcibly removed.

Argentina has failed to gain control after almost 200 years. Time to just get over it already.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I'll answer your hypothetical if you can tell me you're willing to vacate where you live if i can find a native american who's ancestor was forcibly removed.

Argentina has failed to gain control after almost 200 years. Time to just get over it already.

I don't live anywhere that ever had native Americans, but I do feel that the native American that you find should at the very least receive some compensation.

Moreover, your point is off-topic since the Malvinas have no native population.

Furthermore, I don't believe in rewarding illegitimate colonialist activity. The fact that UK has had control for a while is meaningless since Argentina has been actively against the UK illegitimate control. If Argentina never cared and left it alone for 200 years, then maybe I could see your point. Ultimately, I don't see why the UK should actually be rewarded for their illegitimate activity.

 

[Doppel]

Moreover, your point is off-topic since the Malvinas have no native population.

Technically neither did the US or Europe. But with this statement you have torpedoed your arguments. With "no native population", the one with the biggest stick wins.