Employees with kids get to take time off more often...

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: mugs
Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but the law already goes so far with regard to protecting parents in the workplace. The FMLA requires your employer to let you take time off for family medical incidents, i.e. birth. Companies can't "discriminate" against you in employment even if you're visibly pregnant and about to pop and it's obvious that you're not going to stick around for long. If you're going to protect a person from discrimination based on parenthood, I think it's wrong to allow discrimination based on lack of children.

To me, it comes down to this - having kids is a choice. And it's not work-related. If I choose not to have kids and instead start flying model airplanes as a hobby, why should you get special consideration to go to your kid's play and I don't get special consideration to go to a model airplane event at the local park? Why should you get comp time while I have to take vacation time? I AM going to have kids, but I have many coworkers who never will have kids. I want to be treated the same as they are.

I agree mostly here. The comparing kids to hobbies is very far fetched for obvious reasons, but I understand what you are trying to say. Ideally, I would like to see everyone treated equally in the work place for everything just like you, but people just don't do that. They have never done that and they will never do that. They will obey the law and from there they will do as they please because it is "their business". The best thing we can all do for ourselves is to simply keep looking until we find that job which makes us happy. There really is nothing more to it.

Also, in regards to protecting parents in the workplace, you should talk to some of the single moms out there who got laid off when their boss found out they were pregnant because they didn't want to have an taken position with an empty seat waiting for months. Unless you live in a right to work state, employers can legally do that. To them, "it's just business". My wife was one of them. While I understand this may not be the norm, I just wanted to say that just so you and everyone understands that it is important that the parents are protected to a degree. Greed can be a terrible disease.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
You can't say your time at home is more valuable simply because you have kids. My time is just as important to me outside work.

You also cannot hold the world accountable for things that you bring / have been brought on yourself. Hell, I lose a leg tomorrow it's going to suck...I am not about to go after the government for what is not already part of the disability I pay into because I had some bad luck.

If the parent's don't work in careers that allow time off as needed then they should change professions. Not everyone gets to be the boss, the astronaut, the pro ball player....it's real life and one has to make compromises.

If the employer offers no questions asked time off simply because one is a parent they are looking to upset the workforce as well as be taken advantage of.

In the 30+ years I have been working there have probably been 5-6 cases of some parent claiming they had to have time off due to their kid only to be caught in a lie. These are just the cases I was aware of. It's usually been the type that used to call in at least one monday/friday a month sick as well.

As I have stated in other replies in this thread, it is not a question of the value of time as much as it is the amount of free time a parent has vs someone who is single. Most parents try to find jobs like you are talking about which fit their lifestyle the best that they can. They are not all trying to be that single guy that shot up through the ranks and is raking in money while being a parent at the same time. Unfortunately, casual jobs are also becoming few and far between these days with the kinds of hours the average workplace expects as opposed to the amount of hours 20-30 years ago. However, the needs of kids has not changed. In fact, it is often worse. So many families require both parents to work just to make ends meet. This means daycare and less time with the kids. With daycare comes the kids getting sick a lot more often which means the parents need to take more time off and it also means a much heavier monthly bill. You can't just send a 2 year old to daycare with a cold. It is simply cruel and it will get the rest of the kids sick anyways. So we have to take pay cuts with the unpaid time off for the kids.

Still, we all tend to get by one way or another. Much of that is thanks to the generous employers who understand the needs of the parents and will cater to them to a point. Those parents often show their thanks by putting in hard work during the hours they are in the office and make sure to get the job done and to get it done well. It's a healthy work relationship.

Believe me. Most parents would rather not have to take unpaid time off, but we do it anyways for the kids.

 

[Nik]

The OP needs to stop wasting his mental capacity worrying about the affairs of others so he can concentrate on his work. I'm sure his employer would appreciate him minding his own business.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: mooglemania85
You forgot to mention the tax breaks you get if you're married, have kids, etc.

You pretty much take it us the ass if you're the head of the household and have no spouse or other dependents.

It's a marriage tax PENALTY. Not a Marriage tax bonus.

The lower income automatically gets taxed at the rate of the higher income. You aren't saving money in taxes by getting married.

Plus with kids it's a $1000 a year credit per kid. I'm shopping out daycare right now for an infant and it's $1000 A MONTH. Yes. A month. That's just for daycare. Not clothes. Not healthcare. Not toys/furniture. Just for care M-F from 8:00-5:00.

18 years of the credit will only cover the first 18 months of care.

Obviously the answer is "well don't have one then!". Think of it like this - how much are you paying a year in taxes right now? If it's more than $1000 then the Government is coming out ahead by offering your parents a finanical incentive to have you.

The best tax benefit of marriage is the dual-income ability to buy a home and get a massive mortgage to write off the interest expense.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Also, in regards to protecting parents in the workplace, you should talk to some of the single moms out there who got laid off when their boss found out they were pregnant because they didn't want to have an taken position with an empty seat waiting for months. Unless you live in a right to work state, employers can legally do that. To them, "it's just business". My wife was one of them. While I understand this may not be the norm, I just wanted to say that just so you and everyone understands that it is important that the parents are protected to a degree. Greed can be a terrible disease.

That's against the law. http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/qanda.html

You can't lay someone off for getting pregnant.

 

[TheFamilyMan]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Also, in regards to protecting parents in the workplace, you should talk to some of the single moms out there who got laid off when their boss found out they were pregnant because they didn't want to have an taken position with an empty seat waiting for months. Unless you live in a right to work state, employers can legally do that. To them, "it's just business". My wife was one of them. While I understand this may not be the norm, I just wanted to say that just so you and everyone understands that it is important that the parents are protected to a degree. Greed can be a terrible disease.

That's against the law. http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/qanda.html

You can't lay someone off for getting pregnant.

Yes you can just as long as you don't explicitly state it was because of said person being pregnant. You can wrap up a layoff/firing with any wrapper you want to...a right-to-work state = you being able to terminate employment anytime for any reason just as the employer can terminate employment at anytime for any reason (stated or unstated).

Most companies, however, don't/won't terminate someone who is pregnant even if they wanted to due to the simple fact of what the connotations would say if the case was ever deliberated in a civil court.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: mooglemania85
You forgot to mention the tax breaks you get if you're married, have kids, etc.

You pretty much take it us the ass if you're the head of the household and have no spouse or other dependents.

It's a marriage tax PENALTY. Not a Marriage tax bonus.

The lower income automatically gets taxed at the rate of the higher income. You aren't saving money in taxes by getting married.

Plus with kids it's a $1000 a year credit per kid. I'm shopping out daycare right now for an infant and it's $1000 A MONTH. Yes. A month. That's just for daycare. Not clothes. Not healthcare. Not toys/furniture. Just for care M-F from 8:00-5:00.

18 years of the credit will only cover the first 18 months of care.

Obviously the answer is "well don't have one then!". Think of it like this - how much are you paying a year in taxes right now? If it's more than $1000 then the Government is coming out ahead by offering your parents a finanical incentive to have you.

The best tax benefit of marriage is the dual-income ability to buy a home and get a massive mortgage to write off the interest expense.

You save more money by consolidating bills living under one roof than you do with the interest deduction. IMHO the home interest deduction is largely overrated. Yeh it's nice, but it's not as big of a bonus as it's made out to be.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: TheFamilyMan
Yes you can just as long as you don't explicitly state it was because of said person being pregnant. You can wrap up a layoff/firing with any wrapper you want to...a right-to-work state = you being able to terminate employment anytime for any reason just as the employer can terminate employment at anytime for any reason (stated or unstated).

Most companies, however, don't/won't terminate someone who is pregnant even if they wanted to due to the simple fact of what the connotations would say if the case was ever deliberated in a civil court.

That is basically what happened. They didn't tell her it was because she was pregnant. The truth is that companies can lay you off for not liking the color of your shoes if they want to. Slipping through the legal loopholes is easy in this case.

 

[BigJ]

I do the majority of covering for my department for people with family. As long as I get taken care of (getting vacation days whenever I need them, good reviews) I don't give a crap.

They've got a family, which I think is more important than going out and getting drunk with my buddies. So I cover for them.

 

[j00fek]

Employees with kids dont have alot of money either...

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: BigJ
I do the majority of covering for my department for people with family. As long as I get taken care of (getting vacation days whenever I need them, good reviews) I don't give a crap.

They've got a family, which I think is more important than going out and getting drunk with my buddies. So I cover for them.

Was just looking to beat the rush at the mall at five oclock to finish my christmas shopping. Not get blitzed early on a Friday. It really doesn't have anything to do with the people who were allowed to take time to go to a kids recital or whatever. Just ticked me off that I never asked for any accomodation before and the one time I do I got slapped down.
I've since transfered out of that department and hadn't though about it since until I read the article about it and thought you know that kind of fits the situation I was in. My new boss is a lot more understanding when it comes to these things. I had a death in my family that required me to be out of town for two days on real short notice. My new boss covered some things I had been working on finishing up and made that possible for me. I'm infinitely grateful for it and I would never abuse the option for this by leaving early to "get drunk with my buddies". I don't harbor any bad feelings towards my old supervisor though. Perhaps he was just stressed that day trying to finish up work before the holiday and didn't really understand what I was asking him. The more I thought about that article I read though the more it seemed correct to me. My co-workers with kids would use their personal time for leaving early for a concert whereas I had no such reason to and hardly used any personal time unless it was for a dentist visit or a doctors visit. I also rarely get sick so it's pretty much an hour a year of personal time to go to the dentist.
Anyways, didn't mean to get everybody so heated. Lets all just take a deep breath and relax. Fighting about something regulated by your company's policy is not going to accomplish anything. They make the rules to best accomodate everybody.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler

Originally posted by: BigJ
I do the majority of covering for my department for people with family. As long as I get taken care of (getting vacation days whenever I need them, good reviews) I don't give a crap.

They've got a family, which I think is more important than going out and getting drunk with my buddies. So I cover for them.

Was just looking to beat the rush at the mall at five oclock to finish my christmas shopping. Not get blitzed early on a Friday. It really doesn't have anything to do with the people who were allowed to take time to go to a kids recital or whatever. Just ticked me off that I never asked for any accomodation before and the one time I do I got slapped down.
I've since transfered out of that department and hadn't though about it since until I read the article about it and thought you know that kind of fits the situation I was in. My new boss is a lot more understanding when it comes to these things. I had a death in my family that required me to be out of town for two days on real short notice. My new boss covered some things I had been working on finishing up and made that possible for me. I'm infinitely grateful for it and I would never abuse the option for this by leaving early to "get drunk with my buddies". I don't harbor any bad feelings towards my old supervisor though. Perhaps he was just stressed that day trying to finish up work before the holiday and didn't really understand what I was asking him. The more I thought about that article I read though the more it seemed correct to me. My co-workers with kids would use their personal time for leaving early for a concert whereas I had no such reason to and hardly used any personal time unless it was for a dentist visit or a doctors visit. I also rarely get sick so it's pretty much an hour a year of personal time to go to the dentist.
Anyways, didn't mean to get everybody so heated. Lets all just take a deep breath and relax. Fighting about something regulated by your company's policy is not going to accomplish anything. They make the rules to best accomodate everybody.

If you thought it was my intention to compare your specific case to me getting plastered with my friends, I apologize. I was simply making a statement about my own attitude towards covering for people with family, in my own specific situation.

 

[Lamont Burns]

I would rather them take time off than to ever bring them in.

*shudder*

 

[jandrews]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: mooglemania85
You forgot to mention the tax breaks you get if you're married, have kids, etc.

You pretty much take it us the ass if you're the head of the household and have no spouse or other dependents.

It's a marriage tax PENALTY. Not a Marriage tax bonus.

The lower income automatically gets taxed at the rate of the higher income. You aren't saving money in taxes by getting married.

Plus with kids it's a $1000 a year credit per kid. I'm shopping out daycare right now for an infant and it's $1000 A MONTH. Yes. A month. That's just for daycare. Not clothes. Not healthcare. Not toys/furniture. Just for care M-F from 8:00-5:00.

18 years of the credit will only cover the first 18 months of care.

Obviously the answer is "well don't have one then!". Think of it like this - how much are you paying a year in taxes right now? If it's more than $1000 then the Government is coming out ahead by offering your parents a finanical incentive to have you.

The best tax benefit of marriage is the dual-income ability to buy a home and get a massive mortgage to write off the interest expense.

You save more money by consolidating bills living under one roof than you do with the interest deduction. IMHO the home interest deduction is largely overrated. Yeh it's nice, but it's not as big of a bonus as it's made out to be.

I disagree 100%, people who rent get no deduction while homeowners especially early on get over 12,000 in deductions every year. It is a big deal especially since the standard single deduction is like 3500.

 

[Bryophyte]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

In the 30+ years I have been working

IIRC, you're about my age (under 40). Have you been working since you were eight?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: jandrews
I disagree 100%, people who rent get no deduction while homeowners especially early on get over 12,000 in deductions every year. It is a big deal especially since the standard single deduction is like 3500.

True, but renting an apartment is usually much less than paying a mortgage after you take into account insurance, taxes, etc. Even after taxes, the homeowner pays more $$$ per year in most cases unless you are renting something outrageous.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: jandrews

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: mooglemania85
You forgot to mention the tax breaks you get if you're married, have kids, etc.

You pretty much take it us the ass if you're the head of the household and have no spouse or other dependents.

It's a marriage tax PENALTY. Not a Marriage tax bonus.

The lower income automatically gets taxed at the rate of the higher income. You aren't saving money in taxes by getting married.

Plus with kids it's a $1000 a year credit per kid. I'm shopping out daycare right now for an infant and it's $1000 A MONTH. Yes. A month. That's just for daycare. Not clothes. Not healthcare. Not toys/furniture. Just for care M-F from 8:00-5:00.

18 years of the credit will only cover the first 18 months of care.

Obviously the answer is "well don't have one then!". Think of it like this - how much are you paying a year in taxes right now? If it's more than $1000 then the Government is coming out ahead by offering your parents a finanical incentive to have you.

The best tax benefit of marriage is the dual-income ability to buy a home and get a massive mortgage to write off the interest expense.

You save more money by consolidating bills living under one roof than you do with the interest deduction. IMHO the home interest deduction is largely overrated. Yeh it's nice, but it's not as big of a bonus as it's made out to be.

I disagree 100%, people who rent get no deduction while homeowners especially early on get over 12,000 in deductions every year. It is a big deal especially since the standard single deduction is like 3500.

Most households only save themselves $1000-$3000 a year for the mortgage deduction. But when you factor in the higher cost of a loan + property taxes + insurance + repairs you really aren't saving money each month with a home.

Again, I won't turn it away, but don't think that you are going to save money buying a home vs. renting.

 

[PingSpike]

Some one has to raise the next generation to pay for your pathetic future social security check!

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
Some one has to raise the next generation to fix Clinton's theft from social security to pay off national debt (robbing peter quietly to pay paul publicly) to pay for your pathetic future social security check!

fixed!

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: AMCRambler

Originally posted by: BigJ
I do the majority of covering for my department for people with family. As long as I get taken care of (getting vacation days whenever I need them, good reviews) I don't give a crap.

They've got a family, which I think is more important than going out and getting drunk with my buddies. So I cover for them.

Was just looking to beat the rush at the mall at five oclock to finish my christmas shopping. Not get blitzed early on a Friday. It really doesn't have anything to do with the people who were allowed to take time to go to a kids recital or whatever. Just ticked me off that I never asked for any accomodation before and the one time I do I got slapped down.
I've since transfered out of that department and hadn't though about it since until I read the article about it and thought you know that kind of fits the situation I was in. My new boss is a lot more understanding when it comes to these things. I had a death in my family that required me to be out of town for two days on real short notice. My new boss covered some things I had been working on finishing up and made that possible for me. I'm infinitely grateful for it and I would never abuse the option for this by leaving early to "get drunk with my buddies". I don't harbor any bad feelings towards my old supervisor though. Perhaps he was just stressed that day trying to finish up work before the holiday and didn't really understand what I was asking him. The more I thought about that article I read though the more it seemed correct to me. My co-workers with kids would use their personal time for leaving early for a concert whereas I had no such reason to and hardly used any personal time unless it was for a dentist visit or a doctors visit. I also rarely get sick so it's pretty much an hour a year of personal time to go to the dentist.
Anyways, didn't mean to get everybody so heated. Lets all just take a deep breath and relax. Fighting about something regulated by your company's policy is not going to accomplish anything. They make the rules to best accomodate everybody.

If you thought it was my intention to compare your specific case to me getting plastered with my friends, I apologize. I was simply making a statement about my own attitude towards covering for people with family, in my own specific situation.

Ahh I got you. I suppose after the christmas shopping I might have knocked back an egg nog or three! When I have kids some day I'll be grateful for the leeway they give us.

 

[thomsbrain]

I get to schedule sick or vacations hours whenever I want, with no explanation, as long as I notify my boss enough in advance, am not on-call, and make sure all my loose ends are wrapped up with clients. As for letting people off the hook now and then, we all set our own schedules, and as long as we meet our productivity requirements, no one gives us a hard time for taking an afternoon off or even "working from home" for a day. It is up to us if we want to use PTO off for that (in which case we get a break on our productivity requirements), or just have it be a very un-productive work day.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
I get to schedule sick or vacations hours whenever I want, with no explanation, as long as I notify my boss enough in advance, am not on-call, and make sure all my loose ends are wrapped up with clients. As for letting people off the hook now and then, we all set our own schedules, and as long as we meet our productivity requirements, no one gives us a hard time for taking an afternoon off or even "working from home" for a day. It is up to us if we want to use PTO off for that (in which case we get a break on our productivity requirements), or just have it be a very un-productive work day.

People would be so much happier if every job was this flexible. Mine is like that too. I understand that certain businesses just can't do that because of customer demands, but it's nice to dream

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
Anybody else bothered by the fact if you have kids your employer is more likely to give you time off for things that really aren't a necessity? I know where I work, the people with kids always get to take time to go see their kids in a play or some lame graduation ceremony. Most of the time if the person has been working long days or whatever, the supervisor tells them not even to mark it down on their time sheets as they are just recouping the time they've put in but did not get pad for being on salary. Ordinarily I'd be fine with this but there's a double standard. I work just as hard as these working parents, bust my butt and work long days. I asked the same supervisor to leave two hours early to go finish Christmas shopping the Friday before Christmas and he tells me no, I could take a half day of vacation but that's it. Man was I cheesed. I'd been working 12 hour days trying to help get an understaffed project done on time just to get crapped on like that. Not to mention several call outs in the middle of the night requiring me to come to work to fix them and be at work by 8 the next morning. Just wow. I even mentioned this but said supervisor didn't care. Now if I had a kid and had to go on a field trip or something, that would have been acceptable.
I understand being a parent is rough. You're responsible for the welfare of another person who is absolutely dependent on you. But does that make your time any more valuable than another persons? I wouldn't think so. That sure de-motivated me from bustin' my butt for them though. Why work 12 hour days if I was never going to be reimbursed or even get a fraction of my time back? Same goes for emergency call outs in the middle of the night. Where's my motivation to answer the pages? That was the first time and the last time I ever asked for any kind of accomodation ever again. Anybody else experience things like this at their work place? This is the article that got me thinking about it.

Linky

Ok I'm done whining, your turn!

Well, go get some kids if you think it is a better life Trust me, those people prefer not to have to take time off.

 

[Doodoo]

Thats what you get for working in IT...now that your part of Engineering it should be all good. Even better if you work in Customer Services.

Most of the IT crew is gone by 4:30...unless they have something special going on. Most of Customer Services works till 5, so when they need the extra two hours one day its not that big of a deal.

 

[DrPizza]

Ahhh, one of the joys of having a union:
"Hi, I'm taking off the afternoon of the 15th. Here's the time-off form. kthxbye"

It's kinda funny that people put up with such crappy conditions at their places of employment. But, it must be nice having a purpose in life - your purpose is to make money for someone else. Anything you want is secondary.