Employees with kids get to take time off more often...

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: loki8481

it seems as if there's a presumption as if people with kids time is more valuable with the childless. it's always annoyed me, as if just because it's illegal for me to adopt a kid, I somehow don't find it important to spend time with my own make-shift family.

You are slightly off track, but close. It usually isn't that your time is less valuable. It is that the free time that the parents have to spend with their kids and themselves is far less than those without kids.

This is particularly true with young kids. A lot of people without children look at parents and think that they just go home every night and are spending good time with their kids. This is often misleading. What is more accurate is that parents need to rush to make it to the daycare before it closes, go home and start dinner, eat dinner (kids eat very slow sometimes), make sure the kid gets bathed and brushes his teeth, deal with regular picking up cleaning that needs to happen since kids are generally messy, and then there is the other "random factor" where something does not go according to plan and needs your time. On top of all that, assuming you get home between 5:00-6:00PM, you need to get all of this done before the kid's bedtime. Mine is 4 years old and his bed time is 8:30. So, I need to get all that stuff done within 3.5 - 2.5 hours and try my hardest to squeeze in some quality time where I can actually spend time talking and playing with him.

...and we haven't even begun to talk about doctor's appointments and random errands to do whatever during the week. The list goes on and on and the time adds up to a lot leaving very little free time. Everyone's story is different.

 

[jandrews]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: jandrews

Originally posted by: piasabird
Children are our future. Adults without children are just childish selfish children taking up space in the workplace with no meaningful purpose in life. Guys you need to get a grip. Try paying for college.

Single people are always coming in with hangovers. I think overall you will find that married people with children are less likely to be mobile and to want to move from job to job. They make better employees because they do not want to uproot their children, and take them out of school to move to another job.

Of course if you are a narcissistic spoiled rich kid you will never get it.

This is a laughably absurd comment! If anything it is the people with children who are selfish. You want children for whatever reason (to carry on your family line, someone to take care of etc) for your own selfish purposes. Anyone with a house payment has similar interests in keeping their job. Also, what good is a pissed off adult that hates their job but only stays their because of their children? That typically equates to a pretty terrible employee. Get off your high horse and get under the wagon where you belong. Kids are everywhere, they take no skill to make and the biggest idiot in the world can raise them.

edit: and thank you for letting us know what dictates a meaningful or unmeaningful existence, I was so confused before you came to enlighten us your highness.

...and your parents are proof of that. :thumbsup:

*checks your post count* Yes, apparently your time is well used.

 

[jandrews]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: jandrews

This is a laughably absurd comment! If anything it is the people with children who are selfish. You want children for whatever reason (to carry on your family line, someone to take care of etc) for your own selfish purposes. Anyone with a house payment has similar interests in keeping their job. Also, what good is a pissed off adult that hates their job but only stays their because of their children? That typically equates to a pretty terrible employee. Get off your high horse and get under the wagon where you belong. Kids are everywhere, they take no skill to make and the biggest idiot in the world can raise them.

edit: and thank you for letting us know what dictates a meaningful or unmeaningful existence, I was so confused before you came to enlighten us your highness.

If this statement is so true, then why are there so many adults and children out there who just don't do very well in life? I am not just talking about money. I am talking about general good decision making. Most people are not very good at making intelligent decisions for themselves to stay in check and out of trouble. Most people are not good leaders. They tend to be irresponsible and need their hands held for most everything in order to get it right the first time.

btw, I am assuming you do not have kids right?

Yes, that is correct. Oh certainly, I wasnt stating that it is easy to raise a child well. It is just generally easy to have kids and get them along in life for whatever reason. A well cared for and raised child is hard work.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: jandrews

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: jandrews

Originally posted by: piasabird
Children are our future. Adults without children are just childish selfish children taking up space in the workplace with no meaningful purpose in life. Guys you need to get a grip. Try paying for college.

Single people are always coming in with hangovers. I think overall you will find that married people with children are less likely to be mobile and to want to move from job to job. They make better employees because they do not want to uproot their children, and take them out of school to move to another job.

Of course if you are a narcissistic spoiled rich kid you will never get it.

This is a laughably absurd comment! If anything it is the people with children who are selfish. You want children for whatever reason (to carry on your family line, someone to take care of etc) for your own selfish purposes. Anyone with a house payment has similar interests in keeping their job. Also, what good is a pissed off adult that hates their job but only stays their because of their children? That typically equates to a pretty terrible employee. Get off your high horse and get under the wagon where you belong. Kids are everywhere, they take no skill to make and the biggest idiot in the world can raise them.

edit: and thank you for letting us know what dictates a meaningful or unmeaningful existence, I was so confused before you came to enlighten us your highness.

...and your parents are proof of that. :thumbsup:

*checks your post count* Yes, apparently your time is well used.

Yes, because a person's post count reveals everything about them! Bravo!

:roll: GTFO

 

[jandrews]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: jandrews

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: jandrews

Originally posted by: piasabird
Children are our future. Adults without children are just childish selfish children taking up space in the workplace with no meaningful purpose in life. Guys you need to get a grip. Try paying for college.

Single people are always coming in with hangovers. I think overall you will find that married people with children are less likely to be mobile and to want to move from job to job. They make better employees because they do not want to uproot their children, and take them out of school to move to another job.

Of course if you are a narcissistic spoiled rich kid you will never get it.

This is a laughably absurd comment! If anything it is the people with children who are selfish. You want children for whatever reason (to carry on your family line, someone to take care of etc) for your own selfish purposes. Anyone with a house payment has similar interests in keeping their job. Also, what good is a pissed off adult that hates their job but only stays their because of their children? That typically equates to a pretty terrible employee. Get off your high horse and get under the wagon where you belong. Kids are everywhere, they take no skill to make and the biggest idiot in the world can raise them.

edit: and thank you for letting us know what dictates a meaningful or unmeaningful existence, I was so confused before you came to enlighten us your highness.

...and your parents are proof of that. :thumbsup:

*checks your post count* Yes, apparently your time is well used.

Yes, because a person's post count reveals everything about them! Bravo!

:roll: GTFO

You started the childish bickering and I will finish it. I am taking the liberty of ignoring you from now on, problem solved.

 

[Sinsear]

I know how you feel; I've seen it all too often. It's bullshit pure and simple. But it's not likely to change anytime soon either.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: jandrews
You started the childish bickering and I will finish it. I am taking the liberty of ignoring you from now on, problem solved.

but how am I going to up my post count now? Without my post count, I am nothing!

 

[jandrews]

I think the main point of this whole thread is that people generally want parents to be able to spend time with their children but when the time comes for them to take some extra time to do something they want/need to be doing they are not compensated in a similar factor at any point. Regardless of what people with kids think the people who do not have kids are picking up the slack when they are not around. Not to mention some people choose to either be single or not have children for whatever reason. Workplaces are not charities, they are there to make money pure and simple. There is no reason people with children should receive exorborent(sp) amounts of leniency.

 

[GTaudiophile]

I would say good for those employers! If I were a manager and had 30 employees, 15 of which were married and had kids and 15 were single, you bet your ass I would have a double standard. Even if they were all paid the same, I would encourage the 15 married employees to go home and eat dinner as a family...something that is necessary but all but lost in America. The remaining 15 single employees would be worked to death. But they would receive (a lot) more during bonus time.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
The reason for PTO should not matter. If you have accrued enough PTO, and want to take time off, then you should be able to take it (exceptions: deadline for a project looming, other co-workers already out, et cetra). More and more HR Depts are following this standard.

He's talking about "unofficial" comp time though. I'd be pissed too if my boss was treating different employees differently with regard to that just because they have a kid. Perhaps if someone had significantly higher productivity than their coworkers they might deserve more unofficial comp time. I know having kids is tough, but I don't think it warrants inequitable treatment at work. It's nice that a boss is willing to help a parent out, but he should be willing to do the same regardless of whether the employee has kids.

Fortunately my boss is very fair in this regard. He basically tells us to take the time we feel we deserve.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I would say good for those employers! If I were a manager and had 30 employees, 15 of which were married and had kids and 15 were single, you bet your ass I would have a double standard. Even if they were all paid the same, I would encourage the 15 married employees to go home and eat dinner as a family...something that is necessary but all but lost in America. The remaining 15 single employees would be worked to death. But they would receive (a lot) more during bonus time.

How do you expect those single guys to get married and start a family when you're working them to death?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: jandrews
I think the main point of this whole thread is that people generally want parents to be able to spend time with their children but when the time comes for them to take some extra time to do something they want/need to be doing they are not compensated in a similar factor at any point. Regardless of what people with kids think the people who do not have kids are picking up the slack when they are not around. Not to mention some people choose to either be single or not have children for whatever reason. Workplaces are not charities, they are there to make money pure and simple. There is no reason people with children should receive exorborent(sp) amounts of leniency.

Well, I have stated all the moral and mathematical reasons with time so far so let me throw a straight forward one out there. The "reason" people with children should receive said time is because the owner/supervisor of the company wants his business to be that way. Plain and simple. They are big guns with the money and the power so they make the rules and to them that is all the reason they need. Such is life.

Parents who don't get such benefits from their job find another job because they don't like it and there is no other choice but to get a new job. I suggest that everyone who has a job where the parents do get the benefits and it pisses them off to follow the same path and get another job or simply deal with it.

 

[dquan97]

This thread really went nowhere quick....

Anyway, I have two children under 3 and my wife stays home w/ the kids. If I need to take time off, even for a couple hours, I use my vacation/sick leave, which everyone at work has and can use. Fortunately, there's never a busy season and I don't have to cover for anyone's absence.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: mugs
How do you expect those single guys to get married and start a family when you're working them to death?

The single guys I know who are working 10-15 more hours a week than me still have more free time than I do and I only have one kid. Not to mention I have a wife to tend to. Trust me, it works itself out in the end.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I would say good for those employers! If I were a manager and had 30 employees, 15 of which were married and had kids and 15 were single, you bet your ass I would have a double standard. Even if they were all paid the same, I would encourage the 15 married employees to go home and eat dinner as a family...something that is necessary but all but lost in America. The remaining 15 single employees would be worked to death. But they would receive (a lot) more during bonus time.

How do you expect those single guys to get married and start a family when you're working them to death?

Get 15 interns?

Seriously, I would encourage them not to work Friday night/weekends unless we were in serious "crunch time" but I would expect their all Mon-Thurs nights.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: jandrews
I think the main point of this whole thread is that people generally want parents to be able to spend time with their children but when the time comes for them to take some extra time to do something they want/need to be doing they are not compensated in a similar factor at any point. Regardless of what people with kids think the people who do not have kids are picking up the slack when they are not around. Not to mention some people choose to either be single or not have children for whatever reason. Workplaces are not charities, they are there to make money pure and simple. There is no reason people with children should receive exorborent(sp) amounts of leniency.

Well, I have stated all the moral and mathematical reasons with time so far so let me throw a straight forward one out there. The "reason" people with children should receive said time is because the owner/supervisor of the company wants his business to be that way. Plain and simple. They are big guns with the money and the power so they make the rules and to them that is all the reason they need. Such is life.

Parents who don't get such benefits from their job find another job because they don't like it and there is no other choice but to get a new job. I suggest that everyone who has a job where the parents do get the benefits and it pisses them off to follow the same path and get another job or simply deal with it.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but the law already goes so far with regard to protecting parents in the workplace. The FMLA requires your employer to let you take time off for family medical incidents, i.e. birth. Companies can't "discriminate" against you in employment even if you're visibly pregnant and about to pop and it's obvious that you're not going to stick around for long. If you're going to protect a person from discrimination based on parenthood, I think it's wrong to allow discrimination based on lack of children.

To me, it comes down to this - having kids is a choice. And it's not work-related. If I choose not to have kids and instead start flying model airplanes as a hobby, why should you get special consideration to go to your kid's play and I don't get special consideration to go to a model airplane event at the local park? Why should you get comp time while I have to take vacation time? I AM going to have kids, but I have many coworkers who never will have kids. I want to be treated the same as they are.

 

[jandrews]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: jandrews
I think the main point of this whole thread is that people generally want parents to be able to spend time with their children but when the time comes for them to take some extra time to do something they want/need to be doing they are not compensated in a similar factor at any point. Regardless of what people with kids think the people who do not have kids are picking up the slack when they are not around. Not to mention some people choose to either be single or not have children for whatever reason. Workplaces are not charities, they are there to make money pure and simple. There is no reason people with children should receive exorborent(sp) amounts of leniency.

Well, I have stated all the moral and mathematical reasons with time so far so let me throw a straight forward one out there. The "reason" people with children should receive said time is because the owner/supervisor of the company wants his business to be that way. Plain and simple. They are big guns with the money and the power so they make the rules and to them that is all the reason they need. Such is life.

Parents who don't get such benefits from their job find another job because they don't like it and there is no other choice but to get a new job. I suggest that everyone who has a job where the parents do get the benefits and it pisses them off to follow the same path and get another job or simply deal with it.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but the law already goes so far with regard to protecting parents in the workplace. The FMLA requires your employer to let you take time off for family medical incidents, i.e. birth. Companies can't "discriminate" against you in employment even if you're visibly pregnant and about to pop and it's obvious that you're not going to stick around for long. If you're going to protect a person from discrimination based on parenthood, I think it's wrong to allow discrimination based on lack of children.

Well, I don't think many people really care about unpaid time off which is what is given for childbirth etc typically.

 

[Reckoner]

Yep, it's ridiculous, and nothing that will change anytime soon. You're better off going self-employed if you don't want to deal with this particular problem.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: se7en
1/10

Easy answer to all your problems go knock someone up.

And yes my time is more valuable than someone else's regardless of wether I have kids or not.

And yes I will take time off for field trips, plays or whatever and if work isn't flexible enough to work with me then someone else will be working 14 hours a day because I won't be there for sure.

I do however understand your point but like I said in this age its pretty easy to hit a bar and come out with a kid 9months later.

PS. You also get 6weeks off at most places now too wether your the mom or dad.

wow...
how do you figure your time is more valuable than the time of another person?

entitlement theory. The post above had to be blantant sarcasm...I am hoping anyway at least for the benefit of mankind.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: mooglemania85
You forgot to mention the tax breaks you get if you're married, have kids, etc.

You pretty much take it us the ass if you're the head of the household and have no spouse or other dependents.

There is a more of a tax penalty when you are married.

Kids yes you do get deductions.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: AMCRambler
Anybody else bothered by the fact if you have kids your employer is more likely to give you time off for things that really aren't a necessity? I know where I work, the people with kids always get to take time to go see their kids in a play or some lame graduation ceremony. Most of the time if the person has been working long days or whatever, the supervisor tells them not even to mark it down on their time sheets as they are just recouping the time they've put in but did not get pad for being on salary. Ordinarily I'd be fine with this but there's a double standard. I work just as hard as these working parents, bust my butt and work long days. I asked the same supervisor to leave two hours early to go finish Christmas shopping the Friday before Christmas and he tells me no, I could take a half day of vacation but that's it. Man was I cheesed. I'd been working 12 hour days trying to help get an understaffed project done on time just to get crapped on like that. Not to mention several call outs in the middle of the night requiring me to come to work to fix them and be at work by 8 the next morning. Just wow. I even mentioned this but said supervisor didn't care. Now if I had a kid and had to go on a field trip or something, that would have been acceptable.
I understand being a parent is rough. You're responsible for the welfare of another person who is absolutely dependent on you. But does that make your time any more valuable than another persons? I wouldn't think so. That sure de-motivated me from bustin' my butt for them though. Why work 12 hour days if I was never going to be reimbursed or even get a fraction of my time back? Same goes for emergency call outs in the middle of the night. Where's my motivation to answer the pages? That was the first time and the last time I ever asked for any kind of accomodation ever again. Anybody else experience things like this at their work place? This is the article that got me thinking about it.

Linky

Ok I'm done whining, your turn!

It sounds like your problem is really with your manager and not with the people who seemingly get more time off.

Remember, you don't really know how hard these people have been working. They might get into work hours before you or leave hours after you regularily. They might work weekends - if there is a way to track their productivity or profitability, they might be percentage points higher than you. Before you complain, you really need to get the whole picture. Your manager is probably the person who has the most information on this topic. Ask him/her why even though you were working 12 hour days, why he didn't let you off that Friday afternoon.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Until you have kids yourself, stfu.

Having your own kids helps you realize that there are some things more important than work and it also shows you how much less free time you can have in your life overnight just by having one child. Your supervisor obviously understands that. Granted, this also means he has an influence deciding what should be and shouldn't important enough in your life by choosing where to place pressure when granting time off. I do not necessarily agree with that, but don't be pissed at the employees who have children that are getting the time off. It's not their fault. Their kids are much happier that their parents are able to spend time with them during these events which mean so much to them.

Would you rather see those parents be forced to tell their kids that they cannot make it to these things and disappoint them? Stop being so damn selfish. You'll be thankful when the day comes that you have kids and want to ask for that time off.

You can't say your time at home is more valuable simply because you have kids. My time is just as important to me outside work.

You also cannot hold the world accountable for things that you bring / have been brought on yourself. Hell, I lose a leg tomorrow it's going to suck...I am not about to go after the government for what is not already part of the disability I pay into because I had some bad luck.

If the parent's don't work in careers that allow time off as needed then they should change professions. Not everyone gets to be the boss, the astronaut, the pro ball player....it's real life and one has to make compromises.

If the employer offers no questions asked time off simply because one is a parent they are looking to upset the workforce as well as be taken advantage of.

In the 30+ years I have been working there have probably been 5-6 cases of some parent claiming they had to have time off due to their kid only to be caught in a lie. These are just the cases I was aware of. It's usually been the type that used to call in at least one monday/friday a month sick as well.

 

[desy]

I love how people consider and think only in terms of 'job' and not 'life' and forget how a job fits into the overall society and the economy.
Employers allow people to raise their kids for a multitude of reasons, such as a pool to get their next employees as an example.

When you go through a career there are many stages and the part where you have kids is the most demanding. Having kids is a choice, but without them there is no future and if there's no future what are you working for then? why is a company bothering if its projection is negative growth?

If my employer didn't allow me the flexibility I'd look elsewhere and guess what, most of those managers have had children so they understand what a huge investment kids are to parents and how to adapt to family.

Its one of the things that separates us from China or Russia, where here your worthless life is looked upon as valuable, as opposed to human chattel.

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: desy
I love how people consider and think only in terms of 'job' and not 'life' and forget how a job fits into the overall society and the economy.
Employers allow people to raise their kids for a multitude of reasons, such as a pool to get their next employees as an example.

When you go through a career there are many stages and the part where you have kids is the most demanding. Having kids is a choice, but without them there is no future and if there's no future what are you working for then? why is a company bothering if its projection is negative growth?

If my employer didn't allow me the flexibility I'd look elsewhere and guess what, most of those managers have had children so they understand what a huge investment kids are to parents and how to adapt to family.

Its one of the things that separates us from China or Russia, where here your worthless life is looked upon as valuable, as opposed to human chattel.

Is this the part where we start singing some Michael jackson song?

 

[desy]

Our grandparents and parents worked hard fighting wars and fighting for rights to build a better society for their kids.
If your too stupid to take advantage of their labors, your loss. .
I'll put on my gratefull hat, tho