Dutch Muslim group fined over Holocaust cartoon

[SandEagle]

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE67I3ZT20100819

Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:07pm EDT

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AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - A Dutch Muslim group was fined 2,500 euros ($3,200) for publishing a cartoon which suggested the Holocaust was made up or exaggerated by Jews, a Dutch appeals court ruled on Thursday.
The court in the western city of Arnhem overruled an acquittal handed down by a Dutch lower court, saying the cartoon, published on the website of the Arab European League's (AEL) in 2006, was "unnecessarily hurtful."
"The court points out that the European Court of Human Rights, which considers freedom of speech of paramount importance and defends it thoroughly, makes no exception for the denial or trivialization of the Holocaust," the court said.
The court also imposed a 2-year probation period on the AEL.
The cartoon shows two men in Auschwitz looking at several dead bodies. "I don't think they are Jews," says one man. The one man replies: "We have to get to the 6,000,000 (figure) somehow'. Six million Jews were killed during the Holocaust.
The Dutch group says it had no intention of disputing the Holocaust, but wanted instead to highlight what it described as double standards in free speech.
The AEL circulated it in 2006 after a Danish newspaper published a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammad which triggered an outcry among Muslims in many countries.
(Reporting by Gilbert Kreijger; Editing by Maria Golovnina)

lol at the hypocrisy of these dutch. where's the call for freedom of speech? not surprised that the US media didn't touch this one at all.

 

[Phokus]

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE67I3ZT20100819



lol at the hypocrisy of these dutch. where's the call for freedom of speech? not surprised that the US media didn't touch this one at all.

The Dutch group says it had no intention of disputing the Holocaust, but wanted instead to highlight what it described as double standards in free speech.

Pretty smart on their part.

But yeah, the double standard is sickening.

 

[Infohawk]

Western European countries don't respect freedom of speech when it comes to the Holocaust. I don't agree with it but it stems from the collective guilt of some collaborating with the Nazis and deporting Jews. At least the dutch aren't killing them for it, because you know that's what radical Muslims would do.

 

[peonyu]

Its against the law in most European countries to deny the Holocaust or debate any aspect of what happened. Even arguing that disease could have killed a large percent of Jews is asking to get sent to jail since it raises questions about what happened. That in itself can be construed as Holocaust denial [since it indirectly claims that disease could have killed that many instead of deliberate gassing] so you go to jail...Considering that, its not surprising this group is being fined.

Besides that, cartoons of Muhammed are completely different. Thats making fun of a man who died 1300 years ago. And Jesus is mocked more often than he is...So a fair comparison is comparing how Jesus is portrayed at times vs how Muhammed is...And everyone knows Muslims get special treatment in this area since nobody wants to get they're neck slit over a cartoon. Christians havnt been burning people at the stake for Heresy in what, 300 years ? 400 ? Something like that.

 

[OCGuy]

I love how morons try and take something from Europe and apply it to the US.

"See, they trample free speech in the Netherlands! Now your arguments about being able to draw Mohammed the pedo are invalid!"

Doesnt work like that, sorry.

 

[SandEagle]

I love how morons try and take something from Europe and apply it to the US.

"See, they trample free speech in the Netherlands! Now your arguments about being able to draw Mohammed the pedo are invalid!"

Doesnt work like that, sorry.

The US media was eating up the whole Mohammed cartoon story. Why? if it doesn't apply to us here?

 

[xj0hnx]

The US media was eating up the whole Mohammed cartoon story. Why? if it doesn't apply to us here?

Because the media doesn't define the US? Especially their stories about other countries? Maybe they didn't think a 2,500 euro fine for drawing a cartoon was as great a story as loping off peoples heads for drawing cartoons?

 

[BoberFett]

Western European countries don't respect freedom of speech when it comes to the Holocaust. I don't agree with it but it stems from the collective guilt of some collaborating with the Nazis and deporting Jews. At least the dutch aren't killing them for it, because you know that's what radical Muslims would do.

It is a double standard, and it's stupid. Holocaust laws in Europe about as anti-free-speech as you can get.

 

[Infohawk]

It is a double standard, and it's stupid. Holocaust laws in Europe about as anti-free-speech as you can get.

Yup. Don't disagree with that. But are you saying they should make anti-muslim cartoons illegal too? (Honestly I'm not getting it.)

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

It is a double standard, and it's stupid. Holocaust laws in Europe about as anti-free-speech as you can get.

Actually, hate speech laws apply to almost all nations on earth, it's not exclusive to Europe.

What happened to HR 1913?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Yup. Don't disagree with that. But are you saying they should make anti-muslim cartoons illegal too? (Honestly I'm not getting it.)

Well, the cartoons are of a historical religious figure, there is no problem with making fun of Jesus or Moses either, but the Holocaust is problematic for Europeans.

It's in recent memory and there are laws preventing the denial of it still, sure, there shouldn't have to be but there are and from what i gather (mostly because of the influx of Muslim immigrants) it's needed to this day.

Jews are a very small minority in todays Europe and hated by almost all newcomers not to mention almost all Eastern Europeans.

 

[waggy]

sure is a double standard.

 

[BoberFett]

Yup. Don't disagree with that. But are you saying they should make anti-muslim cartoons illegal too? (Honestly I'm not getting it.)

I'm saying neither should be illegal.

 

[OCGuy]

Actually, hate speech laws apply to almost all nations on earth, it's not exclusive to Europe.

What happened to HR 1913?

You obviously have no idea about US hate speech laws.

We can certainly deny any historical event, and say pretty much anything.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

sure is a double standard.

I don't get how it's a double standard, one is portraying a dead holy guy as a caricature, one is denying a genocide. It's not like they are equal portrayals.

Now if it had been Moses portrayed as a caricature and that would have been forbidden but a Mohammed caricature would have been allowed then THAT would have been a double standard.

I do believe it's equally against the law to argue that non-jewish semites (Arabs) were never killed in the Holocaust.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

You obviously have no idea about US hate speech laws.

We can certainly deny any historical event, and say pretty much anything.

It was an honest question, i never did follow what happened to HR1913.

If you couldn't deny your past you wouldn't survive as a nation so that is a given.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwaNRWMN-F4

That's how US hate speech laws work, they just remove disturbing elements so that people can continue their hate speech.

 

[OCGuy]

Watch a neo-nazi rally, Black Panther rally, or a Westboro Baptist Church rally. People say whatever they want here.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Watch a neo-nazi rally, Black Panther rally, or a Westboro Baptist Church rally. People say whatever they want here.

Really? I believe there have been a LOT of people transported away just because they were protesting against a bigger crowd "for their own safety".

Shouldn't the police be protecting them instead of escorting them out of the area? Or is majority rules the rule in actual practice in the US?

 

[chucky2]

Really? I believe there have been a LOT of people transported away just because they were protesting against a bigger crowd "for their own safety".

Shouldn't the police be protecting them instead of escorting them out of the area? Or is majority rules the rule in actual practice in the US?

If the bold was anywhere close to true, the Westboro F'ers would have been shot, burned, p1ssed on, and left to be eaten by wild dogs long ago.

Instead, they're still alive and kicking (unfortunately not being kicked)....

Chuck

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Watch a neo-nazi rally, Black Panther rally, or a Westboro Baptist Church rally. People say whatever they want here.

Oh, BTW, you can watch neo-nazi rallies, muslim demonstrations, Eritreans demonstrating, or pretty much every other group demonstrating in the UK, in the rest of the EU, apart from three nations, Netherlands, Germany and Switzerland, you won't have any problem, not even in Poland.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

If the bold was anywhere close to true, the Westboro F'ers would have been shot, burned, p1ssed on, and left to be eaten by wild dogs long ago.

Instead, they're still alive and kicking (unfortunately not being kicked)....

Chuck

Well, they are in the christian majority with a common denominator, the US hates fags and believes in the Christ no matter what your government thinks on the issue.

 

[chucky2]

True, the majority of the US leans towards the Christian faith, but the majority doesn't really care what ones religion is (and I know some very racist and anti-religous folks). As far as gays, most could care less about them, one way or the other. Most I know don't care if they want a civil union, they just don't want to think of them as married, as they in their view are not, as they're not 1 man 1 woman. Gays unfortunately - for them at least, and for us since we have to keep hearing their whining - cannot understand this, think their relationship is equal to a 1 man 1 woman (it's not, nor will ever be), and so keep pushing for something the majority does not want. Sad really that so many gays will die w/o being able to have a civil union because they want to make a point that the average straight person doesn't really give two shits about in respect to their cause.

No one likes the Westboro folks...I expect some of them to be shot soon, hopfully that'll send the rest of them back to their holes....

Chuck

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

True, the majority of the US leans towards the Christian faith, but the majority doesn't really care what ones religion is (and I know some very racist and anti-religous folks). As far as gays, most could care less about them, one way or the other. Most I know don't care if they want a civil union, they just don't want to think of them as married, as they in their view are not, as they're not 1 man 1 woman. Gays unfortunately - for them at least, and for us since we have to keep hearing their whining - cannot understand this, think their relationship is equal to a 1 man 1 woman (it's not, nor will ever be), and so keep pushing for something the majority does not want. Sad really that so many gays will die w/o being able to have a civil union because they want to make a point that the average straight person doesn't really give two shits about in respect to their cause.

No one likes the Westboro folks...I expect some of them to be shot soon, hopfully that'll send the rest of them back to their holes....

Chuck

"the majority doesn't care what ones religion is"?

Do you think anyone but a christian could become president? If you don't then the majority do care.

I'm oversimplifying, i know, but in reality, hate speech is only tolerated amongst the majority in the US, there are no ifs and buts about it, you cannot have a minority protest or the police will move them instead of protecting them, we both know that.

In reality, we protest muslims, indians, not mexicans so much because we have so few but others too and funny thing is, our police protect the minority by standing up to the majority so that both can be heard.

And no, there is no double standard, it's just ridiculous to compare denial of genocide to a caricature of some dead guy.

One thing though, Muslims can't protest Jesus or Moses nor can they burn Bibles because they consider all of it holy so this is pretty much what they got and that's not acceptable because of history.

I'm fairly sure that a big crowd in Washington claiming that "awesome people" should not continue the lie of slavery would be a short demonstration.

 

[woolfe9999]

I don't get how it's a double standard, one is portraying a dead holy guy as a caricature, one is denying a genocide. It's not like they are equal portrayals.

Now if it had been Moses portrayed as a caricature and that would have been forbidden but a Mohammed caricature would have been allowed then THAT would have been a double standard.

I do believe it's equally against the law to argue that non-jewish semites (Arabs) were never killed in the Holocaust.

You're quite right that the analogy drawn by the OP is poor. However, there is no good reason to criminalize denying the Holocaust. It's more than likely counter-productive.

- wolf