drumpf literally wanting a safe space

[brycejones]

Historically speaking as far as bad nights at the theater go for republicans this shouldn't even register.

Too soon, it's only been 161 years.

 

[IronWing]

We have liberals to thank for parental advisor stickers. How conveniently we forget Tipper Gore and all of that save the children nonsense.

I love those stickers. I like them even better in the iTunes store. The Anonymous 4 had one of their albums tagged as explicit as did a classical Sufi group, "Praise the Beloved, holy of holys, purest of pure, praise motherfuckers!", apparently though there is a clean version one can download. In a brief review of my music collection, I note that Amy Winehouse is personally responsible for two thirds of the explicit tags.

 

[JSt0rm]

What doesn't make sense? Enlighten me.

You are a Russian. Commie trump supporter. You deserve no enlightenment.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Are you saying that people can't talk about the difference in quality of life when you're born a white male?

You're against freedom of speech.



Are people not allowed to cry about a matter? Stop suppressing freedom of speech and freedom of expression.



It's called freedom of speech. Stop trying to suppress it.



If by speech, you mean racism, sexism, homophobia, racial supremacy, etc., then I'm okay with that. Which is by and large what "The Left" are arguing for. "The Right", on the other hand, want to be free to be as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. etc., as they want.

At least, that's what I've seen from the people who label themselves as "The Right", and label others that are more grounded in reality as "The Left".

Thank you for writing a very thoughtful post. I think what many of us forget, myself included, is that it is easy to place others into convenient buckets rather than understand from where they are entering the conversation.

It is all a matter of perspective.

Take white privilege. I could see how some might think that white American males enter life from an advantageous starting point. From my life experience, my grandparents left poverty and immigrated to this country and entered the working class. Both my parents grew up in the projects. Neither of them went to college, nor did the majority of the adults I knew. Military service was my path to higher education. I also had a chance to see much of the third world, so from my perspective, even the most disefranchised person in America has first world problems compared to 70% of the world's population.

I am not stopping you from claiming white privilege exists. You have every right to make that argument.

However, because from my life experience I reject the idea of it, do not label me a racist. It is lazy.

Trump is no more my President than he is yours.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You are a Russian. Commie trump supporter. You deserve no enlightenment.

I am actually an Australian anarchist trapeze artist. You were so close.

 

[sandorski]

Here's the video of what the cast said.

The Comments section below that is sad.

 

[Starbuck1975]

No he doesn't. I think he just likes to see his thoughts somewhere else other than his head.

Hey look who decided to come out and play. Recently I've noticed a trend of us both liking similar posts. I even find myself agreeing with many of your posts and ability to rise above the partisan nonsense. I actually respect much of what you say even if I don't necessarily always agree. Pity.

 

[MajinCry]

Thank you for writing a very thoughtful post. I think what many of us forget, myself included, is that it is easy to place others into convenient buckets rather than understand from where they are entering the conversation.

It is all a matter of perspective.

Take white privilege. I could see how some might think that white American males enter life from an advantageous starting point. From my life experience, my grandparents left poverty and immigrated to this country and entered the working class. Both my parents grew up in the projects. Neither of them went to college, nor did the majority of the adults I knew. Military service was my path to higher education. I also had a chance to see much of the third world, so from my perspective, even the most disefranchised person in America has first world problems compared to 70% of the world's population.

I am not stopping you from claiming white privilege exists. You have every right to make that argument.

However, because from my life experience I reject the idea of it, do not label me a racist. It is lazy.

Trump is no more my President than he is yours.

Uh. You're an American in America. I'm a Scot in Scotland. Pretty sure Trump has no authority over here.

See, when it comes to "white privilege", you have to look at what happens to the other races. Great example; the Native Americans. An entire race, who's vast majority lives in poverty, and have been forced into racially segregated communities (reservations).

Subjugated wholeheartedly by European immigrants and their descendants, the current state of affairs is that they have nothing. Except rape, there's a lot of that being done to them.

Contrast the aforementioned lower class Europeans and the lower class Native Americans. Although lower class, your grandparents were able to achieve primary and secondary education. Which is far superior to what the lower class Native Americans had going for them, in terms of economic opportunities for the impoverished.

Although lower class, your grandparents had clean drinking water. The Native Americans don't.

Your grandparents had electricity. The Native Americans don't.

Your grandparents, with what little skill and education they possessed, had jobs available to them. The Native Americans don't.

And on and on it goes. The white privilege...Meme? Concerns how a bottom of the barrel white dude, rejected by society, still has a hell of a lot more opportunities, safety nets and ways out of poverty, than those who have brown/red/orange melanin in their skin.

 

[fskimospy]

Historically speaking as far as bad nights at the theater go for republicans this shouldn't even register.

Haha, excellent.

 

[MrSquished]

Thank you for writing a very thoughtful post. I think what many of us forget, myself included, is that it is easy to place others into convenient buckets rather than understand from where they are entering the conversation.

It is all a matter of perspective.

Take white privilege. I could see how some might think that white American males enter life from an advantageous starting point. From my life experience, my grandparents left poverty and immigrated to this country and entered the working class. Both my parents grew up in the projects. Neither of them went to college, nor did the majority of the adults I knew. Military service was my path to higher education. I also had a chance to see much of the third world, so from my perspective, even the most disefranchised person in America has first world problems compared to 70% of the world's population.

I am not stopping you from claiming white privilege exists. You have every right to make that argument.

However, because from my life experience I reject the idea of it, do not label me a racist. It is lazy.

Trump is no more my President than he is yours.

I'm a white straight male. Born here, 1st generation American. This is as good as it gets in America, and it's not hard to figure out either.

 

[K1052]

Are you going to see it?

I have tickets in Chicago for late December but if some patriotic souls decided to tank the resale pricing for the week we are in NYC...

 

[lopri]

What the actor did was rude and inappropriate. I do not like Pence at all, but he was in a position where he cannot defend himself. He was not there for political purpose but for watching the play, and as a citizen he has the right to enjoy the show as everyone else.

Now, one can argue that he was really there for political purpose, not for personal entertainment. Considering that he did not seek privacy but paraded in with secret service and all that, there may be a merit to that argument. But as is often the case with stuff like this, we will never know.

 

[Bowfinger]

I suppose from within the echo chamber it sounds like free speech.

Using white privilege as the starting point in a conversation about race suppresses speech.

Having cry-ins on a college campus over who lost an election suppresses free speech.

Claiming that Halloween costumes is a form of cultural appropriation suppresses free speech.

We have liberals to thank for parental advisor stickers. How conveniently we forget Tipper Gore and all of that save the children nonsense.

Both sides look to suppress speech when it is convenient to do so

Please explain how these are examples of suppressing free speech. I saw your reply to MajinCry, but you don't really address this question. In my opinion, two of your examples do not suppress free speech at all, while the other two might if they were followed by actual restrictions:

White privilege -- how does claiming white privilege suppress free speech? People are free to accept or reject the premise. They are free to challenge it, provide counterarguments, etc.

Cry-ins -- how do cry-ins suppress free speech? They are an expression of free speech. People are not forced to join them. We are free to give them a quick /rolleyes as I do, and move on with our lives.

Halloween costumes -- complaining about Halloween costumes, in and of itself, does not suppress free speech. It is an expression of free speech. If crying about Halloween costumes leads to an authority restricting them, I agree that becomes suppression.

Parental advisory labels -- First, while Tipper Gore was the nominal leader of this effort, she had a lot of enthusiastic support from the right. Beyond that, such labels do not suppress free speech as long as they do not lead to restrictions upon adults' access to the products. (Parents have the right to make these decisions for minors.) I think they're kind of dumb, and an unhealthy symptom of America's Puritan hangups, but that's not a suppression of free speech as long as they remain informational and not actionable.

 

[alien42]

he was in a position where he cannot defend himself.

he wasn't attacked, why would he need to defend himself?

 

[MajinCry]

Where are all the free speech dudes that were in the other thread? Surely, they should be defending the cast right the now.

 

[IronWing]

What the actor did was rude and inappropriate. I do not like Pence at all, but he was in a position where he cannot defend himself. He was not there for political purpose but for watching the play, and as a citizen he has the right to enjoy the show as everyone else.

Now, one can argue that he was really there for political purpose, not for personal entertainment. Considering that he did not seek privacy but paraded in with secret service and all that, there may be a merit to that argument. But as is often the case with stuff like this, we will never know.

I'd have some sympathy for Mr. Pence but he used his position in Congress to spew inane preacher babble on the floor of the House, wasting time that he should have spent doing the people's business. If he sees fit to abuse his position of public trust in such a manner, I have no issue with the private cast in a private theater using the opportunity to offer their thoughts to Mr. Pence.

 

[sandorski]

What the actor did was rude and inappropriate. I do not like Pence at all, but he was in a position where he cannot defend himself. He was not there for political purpose but for watching the play, and as a citizen he has the right to enjoy the show as everyone else.

Now, one can argue that he was really there for political purpose, not for personal entertainment. Considering that he did not seek privacy but paraded in with secret service and all that, there may be a merit to that argument. But as is often the case with stuff like this, we will never know.

Frome what I understand the Crowd was booing Pence. This speech was as much calming the crowd down as it was sending a message to Pence. It was a damn good speech too. If Pence was offended, fuck him.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Uh. You're an American in America. I'm a Scot in Scotland. Pretty sure Trump has no authority over here.

See, when it comes to "white privilege", you have to look at what happens to the other races. Great example; the Native Americans. An entire race, who's vast majority lives in poverty, and have been forced into racially segregated communities (reservations).

Subjugated wholeheartedly by European immigrants and their descendants, the current state of affairs is that they have nothing. Except rape, there's a lot of that being done to them.

Contrast the aforementioned lower class Europeans and the lower class Native Americans. Although lower class, your grandparents were able to achieve primary and secondary education. Which is far superior to what the lower class Native Americans had going for them, in terms of economic opportunities for the impoverished.

Although lower class, your grandparents had clean drinking water. The Native Americans don't.

Your grandparents had electricity. The Native Americans don't.

Your grandparents, with what little skill and education they possessed, had jobs available to them. The Native Americans don't.

And on and on it goes. The white privilege...Meme? Concerns how a bottom of the barrel white dude, rejected by society, still has a hell of a lot more opportunities, safety nets and ways out of poverty, than those who have brown/red/orange melanin in their skin.

Such is the original sin of America, one that we will never overcome.

 

[MajinCry]

Such is the original sin of America, one that we will never overcome.

So there we go; that right there is "white privilege". If you were born red, your life is fucking terrible; you will probably never have the compounded opportunities that would allow you to escape poverty, and the horrific racism will not fade.

White Americans are generally not allotted such despair through sake of birth. Red Americans are.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Please explain how these are examples of suppressing free speech. I saw your reply to MajinCry, but you don't really address this question. In my opinion, two of your examples do not suppress free speech at all, while the other two might if they were followed by actual restrictions:

White privilege -- how does claiming white privilege suppress free speech? People are free to accept or reject the premise. They are free to challenge it, provide counterarguments, etc.

Cry-ins -- how do cry-ins suppress free speech? They are an expression of free speech. People are not forced to join them. We are free to give them a quick /rolleyes as I do, and move on with our lives.

Halloween costumes -- complaining about Halloween costumes, in and of itself, does not suppress free speech. It is an expression of free speech. If crying about Halloween costumes leads to an authority restricting them, I agree that becomes suppression.

Parental advisory labels -- First, while Tipper Gore was the nominal leader of this effort, she had a lot of enthusiastic support from the right. Beyond that, such labels do not suppress free speech as long as they do not lead to restrictions upon adults' access to the products. (Parents have the right to make these decisions for minors.) I think they're kind of dumb, and an unhealthy symptom of America's Puritan hangups, but that's not a suppression of free speech as long as they remain informational and not actionable.

White privilege - It starts the conversation from a position that already establishes fault, with the added intimidation factor of being labeled a racist if you disagree with it.

Cry-ins - I dont recall college administrators providing grief counseling for college republicans when Obama won. By catering to the emotional needs of only one ideology, college administrators are essentially creating a hostile environment for the conservative members of their "diverse" community. I imagine it would be very intimidating to be a Trump supporter on a college campus right now.

Parental advisory stickers - This one is more personal for me, as I experienced some very actionable discipline from liberal high school administrators for wearing devil music concert shirts to school. I find irony for when Puritans and liberals overlap. It's all mindcrime bullshit.

 

[IronWing]

So there we go; that right there is "white privilege". If you were born red, your life is fucking terrible; you will probably never have the compounded opportunities that would allow you to escape poverty, and the horrific racism will not fade.

White Americans are generally not allotted such despair through sake of birth. Red Americans are.

Caring is easy when you have no responsibility.

 

[Starbuck1975]

So there we go; that right there is "white privilege". If you were born red, your life is fucking terrible; you will probably never have the compounded opportunities that would allow you to escape poverty, and the horrific racism will not fade.

White Americans are generally not allotted such despair through sake of birth. Red Americans are.

So how does acknowledging white privilege change that? Guilt doesn't fight poverty or put food on the table, nor does it change the dynamics that persist the cycle of poverty.

 

[MajinCry]

Caring is easy when you have no responsibility.

I'd wager it's more to do with culture. For example:

Columbus, a man who sexually enslaved the Native Americans, as well as committed genocide against them, is celebrated in the US.

Theodore Roosevelt, a man who lusted for the death of all Native Americans, is regarded as a fairly macho president, who's head is rightfully carved into Mt. Rushmore.

Thanksgiving, a holiday originating from the betrayal of Native Americans, is regarded as a fairly intimate holiday for the whole family.

Stuff like that is intrinsic to American culture, and to come to terms with what the reds suffer, is to also be posited with a distressing reality.

 

[MajinCry]

So how does acknowledging white privilege change that? Guilt doesn't fight poverty or put food on the table, nor does it change the dynamics that persist the cycle of poverty.

That is a strawman. The argument was that there is no such thing as white privilege, which we can now agree to actually be, err, "a thing".

As to what acknowledging it will do, that's fairly obvious. A good ol' metaphor will suffice.

If you are suffering a necrotic, infectious, cancerous wound that could readily be taken care of, through a few hospital visits and a long-term steady dose of medication, but are completely oblivious to both facts, nothing will be done.

However, if you know that the problem exists, and how to articulate it to others that may also deny it's existence, that's the first step.

But denying it will just make the wound fester and spread.

 

[IronWing]

But denying it will just make the wound fester and spread.

Could you tell what public policies are currently in place that perpetuate the situation you believe exists wrt Native Americans?