DrPizza's project: turn garage into ... apartment

[vi edit]

Very few have paid off houses.

I'm trying to find an updated census with this data. In '97, over 25,000,000 out of 65,000,000 home owners were free and clear on their mortgages. Of that 25 million, a little over half were elderly.

That still leaves about 12 out of 65 million mortgage free. That's still close to 1/5 "non" elderly free and clear. Hardly "very few".

Now I'm sure those numbers have changed in the last 10 years, but I can't find the data to be specific.

I just think you live in an area that paints a very different picture of living than many other people in the US live.

 

[Doppel]

WTF are you talking about?

First, college has always been expensive. Your own argument that homes are at dual income levels is surprising as adults living with their parents is also having an affect at a lot of disposable income items. Housing is not so affected as many of these adults are still living at home 10+ years later and have nothing to show for it.

I went away to college and by the time I was 23 I was out, married and had a nice 3/2/2 pool home on the water in one of the more desirable communities. My parents took care of a lot of things like gas/insurance, but at the same time I was working up to 3 jobs at a time and saving money.

I qualified for little free college money and had to do loans for the rest and work summer's. I ended up with $7000 in debt for 7 years of education when I went the first time.

The second time I went back I had a life to support at my old income level. One year of college racked up a $40k tab...an ex added another $20k to that tab. This was not a problem, just the cost of doing business UNTIL my mortgage company screwed up my credit by incorrectly (and still incorrectly reporting) that I was not making my mortgage payments. They put me into some HAMP program without any agreement on my part.

Once that happened my 6-7% fixed rate credit lines went to 24%, my interest amounts were more than my full payments. That was my 'CREDIT PROBLEM'.

However; I fucking rocked that problem by doing some personal growth, working my salary up and basically paid off everything in a year.

Despite how messed up you think my credit is I qualified for a used car loan of $39,000 without even needing a downpayment at 3.75% which also includes GAP.

I was able to buy a new car too, I'd have qualified for the 2% rate, but my wife wanted to do it in her name only so she paid about 4%...we are paying the car off in about 3 years away so rate is not so important.

All those issues came 10+ years after I left home.

As always, personal anecdotes are interesting only but do little to impact national trends affecting millions, which is what vi_edit was specifically addressing and perfectly correct when he did so. The job and housing market this very minute is the worst it's been for new college grads in many generations. Nobody actually denies this. It's one of those simple facts like 2+2 = 4.

 

[alkemyst]

I'm trying to find an updated census with this data. In '97, over 25,000,000 out of 65,000,000 home owners were free and clear on their mortgages. Of that 25 million, a little over half were elderly.

That still leaves about 12 out of 65 million mortgage free. That's still close to 1/5 "non" elderly free and clear. Hardly "very few".

Now I'm sure those numbers have changed in the last 10 years, but I can't find the data to be specific.

I just think you live in an area that paints a very different picture of living than many other people in the US live.

Like I said MOST aren't free and clear and definitely not most by the time their kids are ready for college.

I think you believe people are doing much better than they are. Also if a parent was free and clear, at today's interest rates the smartest move would be to refinance the college education into the home rather than go for school loans with can never be forgiven and carry a rate almost double.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I'm in NY; formosan termites are in the South. Too cold of a climate up here for them. In fact, only once have I heard of someone with a termite problem (an old barn with a leaky roof.)


As far as living "with" his parents, essentially this turns the house into a duplex, with a shared laundry room/sun room between the two.

Nice work.. It is better than having a shared living space, also in my experience this sort of thing really adds value to the house above and beyond it just being an extra bedroom

 

[SketchMaster]

While my dad and will I never agree on his parenting skills, one thing he did do was make sure by the time I was 16 I could:

Frame a wall.
Lay Sheetrock.
Work on any engine.
Run basic electical wire.
Pack for a hike.
Stay warm and dry in the rain.
Read a map/compass.
Load gun rounds.
Shoot long range without a scope.
Hunt.
Start a fire with out matches.
Drive stick.
Run a chain saw.
Down a tree.
Accurately drive a truck through a forest, in reverse, with 20' trailer.


While there is nothing wrong with being a geek, there are skills that every boy should know before they are old enough to vote. Pizza looks like he's doing a good job of that with his son. :thumbsup:

 

[Drako]

While my dad and will I never agree on his parenting skills, one thing he did do was make sure by the time I was 16 I could:

Frame a wall.
Lay Sheetrock.
Work on any engine.
Run basic electical wire.
Pack for a hike.
Stay warm and dry in the rain.
Read a map/compass.
Load gun rounds.
Shoot long range without a scope.
Hunt.
Start a fire with out matches.
Drive stick.
Run a chain saw.
Down a tree.
Accurately drive a truck through a forest, in reverse, with 20' trailer.


While there is nothing wrong with being a geek, there are skills that every boy should know before they are old enough to vote. Pizza looks like he's doing a good job of that with his son. :thumbsup:

Agree 100%, except that you need to add proper use of a belt :biggrin:

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Not sure why your grown kid wants to live at home? He couldn't budget and do all of this on his own?

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

While my dad and will I never agree on his parenting skills, one thing he did do was make sure by the time I was 16 I could:

Frame a wall.
Lay Sheetrock.
Work on any engine.
Run basic electical wire.
Pack for a hike.
Stay warm and dry in the rain.
Read a map/compass.
Load gun rounds.
Shoot long range without a scope.
Hunt.
Start a fire with out matches.
Drive stick.
Run a chain saw.
Down a tree.
Accurately drive a truck through a forest, in reverse, with 20' trailer.


While there is nothing wrong with being a geek, there are skills that every boy should know before they are old enough to vote. Pizza looks like he's doing a good job of that with his son. :thumbsup:

I've taught myself most everything I know. My dad didn't pass many skills on to me. I'm a self made man.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

First, college has always been expensive.

I ended up with $7000 in debt for 7 years of education when I went the first time.

$7,000 in debt for SEVEN years of education is expensive to you? Good luck finding a degree program anywhere that will only cost you $1,000 a year and not be a complete joke. I graduated 6 years back now, I had most of my college education subsidized with grant money... and I still left with around $25,000 in student loans for a four year degree. Most of my friends were carrying two to three times that load.

It is ABSURD to suggest that it is somehow "immature" for a recent graduate to live at home when they're shouldering 5 or 6 figures in debt and facing a depressed job market. It's incredibly prudent for recent grads to save money by living with their parents cheaply, putting more money towards paying down the debt they built up in college, and saving so they can put money towards a house in the near-future; what's the alternative, renting an overpriced apartment and seeing absolutely no return on your investment? At least if they're living at home, that money stays in the family.

I just can't understand this mindset that if you haven't left home the second you're out of high school, you've somehow failed. It makes no sense. I mean, sure, thirty years ago that was fine. My mother went to school in the 60s and got a degree for $100 a semester. She bought a house in the 70s for $20k; that house is now valued at over $400k. But even though houses have gained 20 times their value over the past few decades, jobs haven't. I would wager that fewer than 5% of recent grads could have enough money one year out from college to be able to afford to buy a house in my area; in areas like San Francisco, I bet that number is significantly smaller. Should they just rent forever? Or should they save a bunch of money by living with their parents? Why should a bizarre sense of "pride" trump "economic sense?"


Pizza, looks like a cool project, and much better than I was expecting since I initially read the thread title as "Turn garbage into mancave for son."

 

[waggy]

College prices have skyrocketed in the recent years. Much faster than in many other periods of time. A college I went to 12 years ago was about $17,000 a year. Now it's almost $30,000. My wife's college was $25,000 at the time and is now almost $40,000. State tuitions have doubled or tripled. But salaries have not.

As far as housing goes, most parents have a locked in mortgage or a house paid off by the time they have teenage kids/college age kids. It's not like they are taking kids income and upgrading. Or expecting that income 5..10...15...20 years earlier when they took out their home loan. Extra income in the house *now* has jack shit to do with the house price when it was originally bought.

We just sent my wife's sister (we have custody of her) to college. i was amazed at the cost of them. prices ranged for $23-29K a year. WTF i went out of state to RIT and didn't pay that much (ok yeah it was in the early 90's..)

I can' understand DrP's plan. hopefully it works out. when kids out of college have 100k+ debt i can understand them staying home wanting to clear it. i think its a good move actually.

 

[DrPizza]

Not sure why your grown kid wants to live at home? He couldn't budget and do all of this on his own?

Of course he could (after he graduates.) He just realizes that student loans are like an anchor around his neck. Living at homenext to home for a couple of years, and saving up enough money in the meantime to make a sizable down payment on a house seems a hell of a lot wiser than moving on the day after he graduates, and having a rent payment, utilities, AND student loans to pay off, which would greatly affect his ability to save. Heck, we wouldn't even have to share driveways; my wife and I could park in one of the other driveways (and often do.)

 

[mvbighead]

Trying to figure why everyone has a beef with the kid living at home? Should be little to no impact on the parents as they only share a washer/dryer.

I stayed with my folks through college, and left shortly after. Every parent wants their kid to succeed. Pushing them out before they're ready may not be the best plan. Hell, if the kid went to college, he's already going down the right path. What they're doing seems like a sound plan to prepare for a bright future.

 

[alkemyst]

$7,000 in debt for SEVEN years of education is expensive to you? Good luck finding a degree program anywhere that will only cost you $1,000 a year and not be a complete joke. I graduated 6 years back now, I had most of my college education subsidized with grant money... and I still left with around $25,000 in student loans for a four year degree. Most of my friends were carrying two to three times that load.

First the debt I was left with <> college being expensive or not. I also added the second time I went back to college I ended up with $30k in debt for one year, but a lot was living costs.

I started working when I was not even 12 doing things like paper routes and the like, by the time I was around 12-13 my dad got me a job doing filing and the like at a bank. By the time I was 16 I was participating in loan sales.

After work there, once I could drive I picked up jobs delivering chinese food for some good money. Most of which I saved (I spent a lot too). I also detailed cars, did yard work, etc on the side. So I was able to leverage that into paying my own way.

It is ABSURD to suggest that it is somehow "immature" for a recent graduate to live at home when they're shouldering 5 or 6 figures in debt and facing a depressed job market. It's incredibly prudent for recent grads to save money by living with their parents cheaply, putting more money towards paying down the debt they built up in college, and saving so they can put money towards a house in the near-future; what's the alternative, renting an overpriced apartment and seeing absolutely no return on your investment? At least if they're living at home, that money stays in the family.

If someone takes on anything more than about mid 5 figures for a full college ride they are an idiot unless they know they are walking into a job (this is how most do it).

State college should not approach anywhere near $15k per year of actual costs if one prepared prior to going in.

Rent is cheap now. All your examples are worst case scenarios.

I just can't understand this mindset that if you haven't left home the second you're out of high school, you've somehow failed. It makes no sense. I mean, sure, thirty years ago that was fine. My mother went to school in the 60s and got a degree for $100 a semester. She bought a house in the 70s for $20k; that house is now valued at over $400k. But even though houses have gained 20 times their value over the past few decades, jobs haven't. I would wager that fewer than 5% of recent grads could have enough money one year out from college to be able to afford to buy a house in my area; in areas like San Francisco, I bet that number is significantly smaller. Should they just rent forever? Or should they save a bunch of money by living with their parents? Why should a bizarre sense of "pride" trump "economic sense?"

Why ever move out then?

 

[vi edit]

State college should not approach anywhere near $15k per year of actual costs if one prepared prior to going in.

Oh really?

http://www.osfa.uiuc.edu/cost/undergrad/res_1112.html

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

This thread has me thinking. Life's tough. Hmm... Maybe I should return home to my parents place at 30 years old? I mean sure I make do but imagine if I was to move back in.

 

[DrPizza]

While my dad and will I never agree on his parenting skills, one thing he did do was make sure by the time I was 16 I could:

Frame a wall.
Lay Sheetrock.
Work on any engine.
Run basic electical wire.
Pack for a hike.
Stay warm and dry in the rain.
Read a map/compass.
Load gun rounds.
Shoot long range without a scope.
Hunt.
Start a fire with out matches.
Drive stick.
Run a chain saw.
Down a tree.
Accurately drive a truck through a forest, in reverse, with 20' trailer.


While there is nothing wrong with being a geek, there are skills that every boy should know before they are old enough to vote. Pizza looks like he's doing a good job of that with his son. :thumbsup:

By 12 years old, he was more accurate with my gun than I am. And, of course he can start a fire without matches - he uses a lighter. The kid loved his bonfires. Chainsaw? I paid someone to drop a maple tree in my front yard (it was split, with a lot of weight toward the bedrooms of the house.) He grabbed my chainsaw and had 90&#37; of the tree cleaned up before I got home from school:

On a related note - several of the maples that size on my street are flagged by the electric company to be taken down this spring. I'm still debating turning them into flooring. Checked with the Amish: it'll cost me about $1 per square foot for rough cutting, kiln drying, and milling into 3/4" solid maple flooring. Hmmmmm....

Oh, and a few weeks ago, I bought a new (used) car for him, because we were sick of trying to fix whatever was wrong with his - looks like it was a faulty control train module that was tossing out codes left and right. Regardless, we got a great price on a relatively low mileage Neon. Problem with the Neon: oh no! There was oil all over the spark plugs, leaking out of the engine! I think we spent under $30 for the new gasket & spark plug tube seals, plus a couple little containers of sealant & stuff to hold the tubes in place. And got at least $1500 off what it was worth as a result. So, he got to tear apart the valve cover on the car, etc. A couple months ago, he ran over a large rock and tore a transmission line, losing all his transmission fluid in the process. So, that was another repair he got to enjoy. He's not afraid to take things apart & service them.

 

[Doppel]

I've taught myself most everything I know. My dad didn't pass many skills on to me. I'm a self made man.

Meh, to be honest mine didn't either. Many suburban guys never learn this stuff and thus never pass it onto their kids. All the handy man type crap I know I learned online and by playing around with it myself (cars, construction, etc.).

I'm sure a lot of the negative nancies in this thread are not nearly as wealthy/on the right path as their posts would hint at.

 

[alkemyst]

Oh really?

http://www.osfa.uiuc.edu/cost/undergrad/res_1112.html

Minus scholarships and room and board is always inflated in on campus figures. Everyone should be able to work a few months as well to pay some as you go.

 

[DrPizza]

State college should not approach anywhere near $15k per year of actual costs if one prepared prior to going in.

At a glance, SUNY Geneseo is 20,109 per year, in state if you live on campus. (29k out of state.) Most of the state schools are similar in NY. He lived on campus for 1 year; then realized that room & board is a huge rip-off, so this year, he's commuting.

 

[waggy]

At a glance, SUNY Geneseo is 20,109 per year, in state if you live on campus. (29k out of state.) Most of the state schools are similar in NY. He lived on campus for 1 year; then realized that room & board is a huge rip-off, so this year, he's commuting.

and most colleges make freshmen stay in the dorms at least one year. 15k? not one of the decent colleges we looked at in IL was that cheap (counting dorms etc).

I am really amazed at the cost vs when i went in the 90's

 

[bfdd]

nice! My dad and I did this awhile ago when I moved into their garage. Fun stuff, if anyone in So Cal plans on doing it I'm always down for some hammer swinging and insulation itching.

 

[DrPizza]

and most colleges make freshmen stay in the dorms at least one year. 15k? not one of the decent colleges we looked at in IL was that cheap (counting dorms etc).

I am really amazed at the cost vs when i went in the 90's

We had to fill out all sorts of documents & have them notorized so that he could live at home. They insist that their freshmen live on campus.

 

[Modelworks]

The only issue I can see is if you were to rent it out in the future. Most states and utilities have laws requiring a separate meter for each household . It might be something to check into before you run that 100 amp line . The cost of a meter base and panel isn't all that much and would only add value in the future.

 

[Pantlegz]

Minus scholarships and room and board is always inflated in on campus figures. Everyone should be able to work a few months as well to pay some as you go.

Not everyone gets scholarships? Room and board on that site is about as expensive as is to rent a 1br anywhere near campus here and I'm paying ~250 per credit hour for in state tuition in a state run university. 20k a year is pretty standard, which is why a lot of recent grads have a ton of debt and are having a hard time finding jobs which puts them in a bad position.

 

[waggy]

nice! My dad and I did this awhile ago when I moved into their garage. Fun stuff, if anyone in So Cal plans on doing it I'm always down for some hammer swinging and insulation itching.

shit to bad you didn't live near me. i have to redo my shed..and i don't have a clue on how to do it heh.

a handyman i am not. I was going to do the basement on my own. figured hell if its ugly who cares? its going to be a playroom and 2nd living room. but my wife talked me into hireing out someone. i think that was a good idea. think i would be in over my head.

We had to fill out all sorts of documents & have them notorized so that he could live at home. They insist that their freshmen live on campus.

I have a buddy that lived in Dekalb and went to NIU (wich is in Dekalb). he had to live in the dorms his freshmen year and they wouldn't let him live at home. lol i thought it was funny.

my SIL is to far for it. only good part is she is getting almost a free ride (she had to take out 1k in loans). she works during the summer for spending money (we pay for her phone, car insurance and whatever else comes up).

The only issue I can see is if you were to rent it out in the future. Most states and utilities have laws requiring a separate meter for each household . It might be something to check into before you run that 100 amp line . The cost of a meter base and panel isn't all that much and would only add value in the future.

he might be able to get around that by making electric part of the rent. Around here its common to Buy a huge house and rent out rooms to college students. $300-4000 for a room (with all utilites).