Doom3 Capable Budget Upgrade? Update: Bought Xbox Instead, But New Dell Deal Linked

[SithSolo1]

Yes, I know this out of your budget. But it will kick the cr@p out of most sub $1000 dells.

ANTEC Solution Series Super Mid Tower Case with 350W Power Supply, SLK3700AMB (120mm fan, should be quieter and will cool better)
SONY Black 16X DVD-ROM Drive
Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive
2x Mushkin 184 Pin 256MB DDR PC-3200
Shuttle nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU, Model AN35N-Ultra
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Retail(you won't be overclocking)
SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600PRO Bulk

Total Shipped: $534.99

Upgrade to a 9700Pro for $54

Down grade to 1 stick of ram: -$41 (performance will take a big hit)

Down grade to 2x PC2100: -$27 (Not nearly as big a hit)

Don't need a HD or DVD drive? -$99

Edit: I should probably add that this is all new and from Newegg.com only. I'm sure if you go used you can find a better deal, also other sites out there might have slightly lower prices. I doesn't matter where you get it from as long as you get it and it works so be sure to check Heatware.com when buying used or Resellerratings.com when buying new.

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Look Varun, I said in the OP, that if this can't be accomplished, I'll just wait for a cheap 4600. It quickly started to look like it couldn't be done.

Well then, you've got your answer. It can't be done WITH DELL. Since you're not interested in anything else, you'll have to wait.

Last I heard Intel was stability king. If there's a new leader, I'm all ears.

OBVIOUSLY!

I'll configure you that system shortly.
edit: I could do a little better but it looks like the post above mine is half decent. I'm not going to waste my time getting it to $400 since it's just going to fall on deaf, deaf ears anyway.

 

[MDE]

Abit NF7-S: $100.99
Athlon 2500+: $80
512MB Buffalo PC3200 RAM: $85
Antec SLK3700-BQE w\ 350W PSU: $72 (+$15 shipping)
PowerColor 9700 Pro $189 OR Chaintech FX5900XT: $185
Maxtor 80GB 7200RPM 8MB cache hard drive: $81
________________________________________________
Total: w\ 9700 Pro: $537.99 w\ FX5900 XT: $533.99
EDIT: Added hard drive. This config would be VERY similar to my personal system and could play any game you can throw at it, and future games. All prices from Newegg.

 

[Varun]

Originally posted by: AIWGuru


Please don't talk when you don't know what you're talking about. The FX 5200 is a fully DX9 card. It supports PS 1.1, 1.4, and 2.0. It is not related the the GeForce 2 in any way. It has a GeForce 4ti memory controller and the rest is the FX architecture.
You're probably thinking of the GeForce 4mx.
Please read a 5200 review to inform yourself

Ok I must appologize, I did just go and read a review of the card, and it is actually DX9 compliant. It's performance is just so bad I thought they just extended the GF4-MX line again.

With benches like this it's not too hard to fathom that:

Unreal Tournament 2003
Geforce FX 5950 Ultra - 108.7FPS
Geforce FX 5200 - 33.2FPS
Geforce 4MX-460 - 31.6FPS

Sorry about that mistake.

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: Varun

Originally posted by: AIWGuru


Please don't talk when you don't know what you're talking about. The FX 5200 is a fully DX9 card. It supports PS 1.1, 1.4, and 2.0. It is not related the the GeForce 2 in any way. It has a GeForce 4ti memory controller and the rest is the FX architecture.
You're probably thinking of the GeForce 4mx.
Please read a 5200 review to inform yourself

Ok I must appologize, I did just go and read a review of the card, and it is actually DX9 compliant. It's performance is just so bad I thought they just extended the GF4-MX line again.

With benches like this it's not too hard to fathom that:

Unreal Tournament 2003
Geforce FX 5950 Ultra - 108.7FPS
Geforce FX 5200 - 33.2FPS
Geforce 4MX-460 - 31.6FPS

Sorry about that mistake.

Yep. Same speed as a Vanilla GeForce 3. Faster than a Ti200. It's still a decent card. Not everyone needs 200fps and 4xAA,8xAf. And yes, it's not much faster than the GF4mx-460 as you pointed out which, believe it or not, is also faster than a GF3ti200 in DX7 games (such as UT2K3). It plays every current game just fine at 1024x768 full detail all for $55. All without a fan and no noise. Best. Bang for buck. Ever.

Ironically, the only other card in its price range is the radeon 9200 which is a AGP 8 radeon 9000 which is a 8500 with chopped pipes. Of course, this is only a DX8 card and does not support the upcoming windows longhorn's 3d accelearation of the interface. It's ironic that you fingered this card as being behind in DX support when this is only true of the competition.

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: SithSolo1
Yes, I know this out of your budget. But it will kick the cr@p out of most sub $1000 dells.

ANTEC Solution Series Super Mid Tower Case with 350W Power Supply, SLK3700AMB (120mm fan, should be quieter and will cool better)
SONY Black 16X DVD-ROM Drive
Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive
2x Mushkin 184 Pin 256MB DDR PC-3200
Shuttle nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU, Model AN35N-Ultra
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Retail(you won't be overclocking)
SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600PRO Bulk

Total Shipped: $534.99

Upgrade to a 9700Pro for $54

Down grade to 1 stick of ram: -$41 (performance will take a big hit)

Down grade to 2x PC2100: -$27 (Not nearly as big a hit)

Don't need a HD or DVD drive? -$99

What am I missing? The sub $1,000.00 Dell, $399.00 to be exact, includes:

• Usable, quiet case
• 48x CDRW (I don't need or want DVD)
• 40GB HDD (upgrade to 7200RPM ATA 100 for $10.00)
• 256MB Dual DDR (double it for another $40.00)
• Intel chipset mobo (may be Intel mobo. Is nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard more stable?)
• Pentium-4 2.8GHz
• Integrated Video (add SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600PRO for $135.00)
• That's $585 and includes WinXP Home, as well as keyboard, mouse and 1-Yr Warranty.

Thanks for the list. Are these two configurations far off performance wise?

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Well, let's see how far back my most recent build was.... ummm, the CUSL2 in that Celeron rig was only a few months old, so I guess that's about the 2001 era. I've got four rigs running here, and all are older than that. I bought quality components, so they're all still running without a hitch. At that time, AMD had so GD many issues, I wouldn't even consider one. That, and the fact that all my rigs, and family members had Intel based PCs. I swap parts from one PC to another, and pass outdated CPUs down the line, so throwing an AMD into the mix would halt that.

Eh...happens/ Here there's an excess of PII 300 and 350 CPUs, but an influx of socket370 and socket462 mobos...

There was also chipset issues. No interest in VIA for an Intel based system, or AMD. SIS may or may not be good, but I don't want to be a guinea pig. As I recall, the nForce boards were about to be released, and when they finally were, they were too expensive, buggy and behind the curve.

Yup. Nforce boards are fine now, as are NF2 ones, not counting board-specific issues (see some of the threads here and AMDMB for that).
SiS boards are great. If you're not up to OCing, Gigabyte's boards are nice. ECS ones are cheap and have a high return rate, unfortunately. If you're on a budget theuy are worth a shot (all the onus that got Windows and the drivers installed properly have worked without a hitch so far since the K7S5A was new). IMO, the biggest problem with SiS boards is that nobody makes a feature-rich one for AMD processors. I'd recommend the Gigabyte 746FX board for a low-end server, so that should give an idea of stability .

I've always bought the best quality mobos, though not soon after their release. My PC uses an AOpen AX6BC, my other son has an ASUS P3B-F, as well as the CUSL2 we want to upgrade now. Not sure who makes the most reliable boards today, but I'd very much prefer to stick with an Intel chipset.

As long as you don't go with a Celeron, that's fine .

Thanks for the info on AMD's much needed improvements. Not sure whether I should buy a whole case, or just the power supply. I was hoping to go with an ASUS P4 mobo that supported the older PS, but I guess they don't make them anymore.

Even AMD boards are now using the P4 connector...

If I wait for the Dell deal, it will be the 4600, since you all mentioned that no current PCI based card will cut it. I REALLY didn't have the time to get back up to speed on all this for this birthday, but I will do more research while waiting for a Dell deal. That is unless I can slap something together pretty cheap and stable, but it's not looking good so far...

Why not? Fortron 300w, Abit NF7-S, Barton 2500+, 2x512MB PC3200 = ~2.2GHz solid AMD goodness. Personally, any new AMD solution should be pretty compatible (most issues are specific to boards themselves, not chipsets, now), and very stable. If my PC crashes once, and it isn't obviously a software problem (like ePSXe 1.6.0 , which is the only thing that crashes on my machine right now), I reinstall. IMO, that's 'very stable'. If you have extra $ and want to OC, the P4 2.8C is nice.

Thanks Again!

 

[Bonesdad]

this is friggin ridiculous...

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: SithSolo1
Yes, I know this out of your budget. But it will kick the cr@p out of most sub $1000 dells.

ANTEC Solution Series Super Mid Tower Case with 350W Power Supply, SLK3700AMB (120mm fan, should be quieter and will cool better)
SONY Black 16X DVD-ROM Drive
Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive
2x Mushkin 184 Pin 256MB DDR PC-3200
Shuttle nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU, Model AN35N-Ultra
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Retail(you won't be overclocking)
SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600PRO Bulk

Total Shipped: $534.99

Upgrade to a 9700Pro for $54

Down grade to 1 stick of ram: -$41 (performance will take a big hit)

Down grade to 2x PC2100: -$27 (Not nearly as big a hit)

Don't need a HD or DVD drive? -$99

Edit: I should probably add that this is all new and from Newegg.com only. I'm sure if you go used you can find a better deal, also other sites out there might have slightly lower prices. I doesn't matter where you get it from as long as you get it and it works so be sure to check Heatware.com when buying used or Resellerratings.com when buying new.

...Audigy: $50. Seriously, if you want to use onboard sound, DO NOT GET MY BOARD . The Abit NF7 is far better in that regard.

In closing, I will say:
1. If you want to get an OEM machine, get an eMachine, as they seem to be about the only oneus that actually have well-rounded desktops. Dell min-maxes for marketting.
2. Any PC you build with good components should be perfectly solid. MechBgon has a work fleet of AMD systems, NF1 even! My father has a fleet of ECS SiS boards running all neuw desktop and server PCs. Why? Because they just work, and so far there hasn't been a single issue except for less-than-average QC testing. Every board that works, works forever. So there's always a spare Athlon mobo at the house here or at his office. For <$50 a unit, you accept certain things like that (around 10% return rate, only two of over 50 have died in the last three years, both in the right time frame for the bad capacitor fiasco). A good PSU, just about any memory, decent HD, half-way decent mobo, and you're good to go.
Overall stability, compatability and reliability has soared since the god-damned (and devil-damned, too) KT133. I don't recommend current VIA solutions purely because almost no VIA boards stand out, or have really good bang/buck.

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: Ornery

Originally posted by: SithSolo1
Yes, I know this out of your budget. But it will kick the cr@p out of most sub $1000 dells.

ANTEC Solution Series Super Mid Tower Case with 350W Power Supply, SLK3700AMB (120mm fan, should be quieter and will cool better)
SONY Black 16X DVD-ROM Drive
Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive
2x Mushkin 184 Pin 256MB DDR PC-3200
Shuttle nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU, Model AN35N-Ultra
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Retail(you won't be overclocking)
SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600PRO Bulk

Total Shipped: $534.99

Upgrade to a 9700Pro for $54

Down grade to 1 stick of ram: -$41 (performance will take a big hit)

Down grade to 2x PC2100: -$27 (Not nearly as big a hit)

Don't need a HD or DVD drive? -$99

What am I missing? The sub $1,000.00 Dell, $399.00 to be exact, includes:

• Usable, quiet case
• 48x CDRW (I don't need or want DVD)
• 40GB HDD (upgrade to 7200RPM ATA 100 for $10.00)
• 256MB Dual DDR (double it for another $40.00)
• Intel chipset mobo (may be Intel mobo. Is nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard more stable?)
• Pentium-4 2.8GHz
• Integrated Video (add SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600PRO for $135.00)
• That's $585 and includes WinXP Home, as well as keyboard, mouse and 1-Yr Warranty.

Thanks for the list. Are these two configurations far off performance wise?

You don't seem to be getting it. It's really very simple. THERE'S NO FRICKING AGP SLOT! YOU CANNOT INSTALL THAT RADEON!
edit: and the sound is horrendous.
Even if you did those upgrades to make it comparable, and somehow magically fused an AGP slot to that motherboard, and upgraded the soundcard to a $50 audigy, you're looking at $235 extra. So....that's, what? $820. Since you can't fuse that AGP slot on there, it's kind of mute, even if you could, it would still be a ripoff.

 

[batmanuel]

Here's what you need for a nice quiet, cheapish system that will handle Doom3 fine.


Case:

Antech Sonata: $99

Designed to be near silent, it only puts out about 21 dB thanks to a 120mm rear fan that pushes a lot of air while turning at low RPMs so your system is cool yet quiet at the same time. It also comes with a TruePower 380S (for Silent), power supply which has the dedicated power circuits for all three voltage rails so you get good clean power to your motherboard and components. It is definitely worth the premium you pay over a generic case. Plus it looks really nice, much nicer than your basic Dell case and is basically just as quiet. You'll hate yourself for not buying anything else if you really want a quiet computer.

Motherboard

Shuttle MN31N: $83

This is debatable, but if you want to save some cash right now and go with integrated video, the nForce 2 IGP is the way to go. It will humiliate Intel's Extreme(ly slow) Graphics in every conceivable way, plus give you an AGP slot for upgrade when you realize that you pretty much have to have at least a midrange GeForce FX to play Doom 3. By running with onboard graphics now, your son can play all but the most high end games while you save your money for something a bit nicer. Plus there is some debate over what card will play Doom 3 the best, so it might be worth waiting to see if the GeForce FX cards really run it a lot better than comparable ATi cards, as the word on the street seems to indicate right now. The game was developed mostly with nVidia tech in mind and makes a lot of use of stencil operations, which the GFFX series does particularly well and since it runs in Open GL, Doom3 probably won't suffer from the GFFX series' DX9 weaknesses. All in all, if you really want to run Doom3 and run it well, the best bet might be to hold off until the final benches are in, and run with integrated video for now.

Processor

Duron 1.8 GHz: $43

It's cheap and will run rings around even the fastest Celeron. On die thermal diode, so it won't burn up if a fan fails. If you have more money, you can always go up to a Athlon XP 2500+ for around $75 which is a GREAT processor for the money.

RAM

2x256MB Dual Channel Kit: $92

Kingston usually works well for me, and they make a nice Dual Channel two pack that is qualified to work on the NF2 platform. Two sticks gives you better onboard video performance, and it really isn't that much more to go for PC3200 when you're running 266 or 333 MHz FSB processors, so you might as well go for it. This can sometimes be found cheaper locally.

Cooling

Zalman Quiet CPU cooler: $40

It's pricy, but it is quiet and cools really well. You can go cheaper, but it is recommended if you want to get rid of the noise.

Now, you'll notice that we're already over $300. You'll still need optical and hard dives, plus a copy of Windows XP, so I'd say this config will cost you around $600 all told. Ad in a decent graphics card later, plus a copy of Doom 3 and you're looking at something like $800-$900. This is decent pretty price for a quiet gaming system, but a lot compared to a budget Dell.

The stripped-down Dell though, as many have said, has little chance of running Doom 3 at anything considered a decent frame rate, mostly because of the graphics subsystem. And a PCI add-in card just won't help out the Dell much, since any relatively new card will bring the PCI bus to its knees. If you are looking to run Doom 3 on anything cheaper than about $500-$600 (and only then if you went for the cheapest case and PS imaginable and made due with a low end closeout GFFX card and a Fry's CPU/mobo combo), then I'd say it is time to march out and get an X-Box. Which, by the way, is basically a nForce based system with an enhanced GF3Ti-level graphics core embedded into the IGP.


EDIT: SithSolo1, I just read what you wrote while I was typing this. Didn't realize you already said most of what I wanted to say.

 

[Cerb]

The Dell needs a video card, replacement of RAM (needs 2x512MB), and a better hard drive. Probably a sound card, as well. The Intel onboard is a CPU hog.
Sound: ~$50
80GB 8MB HD: $75
RAM: ~$160
Video: ~$200
So $500+$400
You're dealing with around $1000, maybe a bit more or less for that Dell.

It may only be a DX8 game, but from all anyone has seen, it should set a new standard for visual and sound quality.
You're not getting anything like those screenshots you see around with a $500 PC (counting software).

 

[AIWGuru]

HERE read ANANDTECH's most recent (february) budget system buying guide. It might clear some things up for you. Please read it before posting further.
"These days, it's nearly impossible not to recommend an AMD Athlon XP processor for a budget system."

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: AIWGuru

Originally posted by: Ornery
What am I missing? The sub $1,000.00 Dell, $399.00 to be exact, includes:

• Usable, quiet case
• 48x CDRW (I don't need or want DVD)
• 40GB HDD (upgrade to 7200RPM ATA 100 for $10.00)
• 256MB Dual DDR (double it for another $40.00)
• Intel chipset mobo (may be Intel mobo. Is nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard more stable?)
• Pentium-4 2.8GHz
• Integrated Video (add SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600PRO for $135.00)
• That's $585 and includes WinXP Home, as well as keyboard, mouse and 1-Yr Warranty.

Thanks for the list. Are these two configurations far off performance wise?

You don't seem to be getting it. It's really very simple. THERE'S NO FRICKING AGP SLOT! YOU CANNOT INSTALL THAT RADEON!
edit: and the sound is horrendous.

Other than the AGP problem, you actually have a decent system there. If you could find a similar system that supported AGP and outfitted it with a 4200, a 5700+, or a 9600+, and then you went for the memory upgrade(I'm actually even a bit iffy on 512MB since Carmack said D3 would be a memory hog, but 512 should still work), then you'd be fine. Anything less than that may "run" Doom 3, but it's going to be at such a low framerate that it's going to be difficult to play the game.

 

[AIWGuru]

The cost of the system (not including monitor) for anandtech's recommended budget system?
$375
Have fun.
link

 

[Gerbil333]

Originally posted by: Ornery
I don't want to listen to screaming fans needed to keep an Athlon cool. I've got Zalmen fan speed controls on ALL fans in the system for that reason. Can I trust the Athlon to keep running with low RPM on the fans? Will it it croak if the fan happens to not spin up, due to a low RPM setting? I think we both know the answer to that. I don't want to buy an expensive P4 rated PS, to meet requirements of an Athlon CPU, or be wondering if a lower powered PS is causing issues. Dell gets by with cheap 200watt PS units in their Intel systems, and they're rock solid. I'll stick with what I KNOW works.

First of all, I've used many Dell systems, and not a single one has been "rock solid." I've crashed programs on each and every one I've had the mistfortune of working with. They are far from stable from what I've seen.

The Athlons may have been hot back in the day, but they're not like that anymore. I'm running two of my computers with a $7 hsf that uses an 80mm, 2100rpm, 26dbA fan. They're very quiet Those are 1700+ TBred A's and B's, and they operate at about 35-44C (stock). I've never had a problem with them.

You think an AMD chip will die without a fan? That's not true either, even though TomsHardware guide made a big deal about it, and everyone has believed that. I know this from personal experience, with one 1600+ surviving 12 hours without a fan.

Yes, if the entire heatsink falls off an AMD chip will die. With 6 prongs holding the heatsink down, how likely is that??? Not very.

The Athlon 64's are supposedly even cooler than the Athlon XP's and P4's...

 

[batmanuel]

Originally posted by: AIWGuru
The cost of the system (not including monitor) for anandtech's recommended budget system?
$375
Have fun.
link

Let's not forget the OS, which is included with the Dell, which will add on another $80=$90 bucks. Just to be the devil's advocate here.

 

[AIWGuru]

Yes, if the entire heatsink falls off an AMD chip will die. With 6 prongs holding the heatsink down, how likely is that??? Not very.

...

Actually, that's not true anymore. AMD has long ago mandated that mobo makers have to make use of the on die diode for the Athlon XP which will prevent thermal death EVEN if the heatsink comes right off. Tom's first video took place before this.

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: batmanuel

Originally posted by: AIWGuru
The cost of the system (not including monitor) for anandtech's recommended budget system?
$375
Have fun.
link

Let's not forget the OS, which is included with the Dell, which will add on another $80=$90 bucks. Just to be the devil's advocate here.

I guess that's true although I don't know anyone who's actually PAID for windows. I guess there are some who would though.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: batmanuel

Originally posted by: AIWGuru
The cost of the system (not including monitor) for anandtech's recommended budget system?
$375
Have fun.
link

Let's not forget the OS, which is included with the Dell, which will add on another $80=$90 bucks. Just to be the devil's advocate here.

$460
So around $650 (2500+, 9800 Pro) for a PC that will do the job, and accept incremental upgrades.

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: batmanuel

Originally posted by: AIWGuru
The cost of the system (not including monitor) for anandtech's recommended budget system?
$375
Have fun.
link

Let's not forget the OS, which is included with the Dell, which will add on another $80=$90 bucks. Just to be the devil's advocate here.

$460

Doesn't he already own a copy of windows on his current system? It's within the winodws liscence agreement to transfer the OS. The only limitation is that it can only be installed on one system at a time. So, if the old system is mothballed, $375

So around $650 (2500+, 9800 Pro) for a PC that will do the job, and accept incremental upgrades.

What are you talking about? It's a budget system. what don't you get about that word. It's already got a 9600. That's enough. It's already on an Nforce 2 400 ultra system which will accept upgrades. There's no need to make those upgrades you just suggested. You're thinking of a midrange system.

If you don't find anandtech's budget system to be acceptable, you can't be reasoned with.

Heck, my system which "Can't do the job" can play the leaked doom3 alpha moderately well. There are scenes (like when the moster breaks out of the wall) where it chops down to single digits...but this is a build made nearly 2 years before the game's release. On release, this system will play it exemplarily, all the time.

Oh well, I'm off to play the Unreal 2004 demo on my system that "can't get the job done"

 

[Cerb]

It's a new game, and the original poster wants to be able to play it with decent quality settings. What part of that escapes you? Budget and brand new games don't go together.
Everyone's been using a 9800 Pro as video card to add, given the bang/buck.
$650 is what, $50 more than that Dell with a plain 9600 video card?
Did I say anything about changing the mobo? No.
Lastly, if he wants to play Doom3 at any decent framerate, he'll need a better video card and more RAM. Any game out now needs more than Anand's budget system to run current games beyond low detail settings.

 

[SithSolo1]

Originally posted by: AIWGuru
The cost of the system (not including monitor) for anandtech's recommended budget system?
$375
Have fun.
link

I think it's safe to say that his son might as well be looking at DooM 3 screenshots if he were to try and play it on that rig.

And no he doesn't need a 9800Pro either, a 9600Pro will do just fine.

Bare minimum you're still looking at about :$570 for a complete system:

AMD XP 1800+ OEM
2x 256MB Kingston ValueRam PC2100
40GB 7200RPM Maxtor HD
Antec SLK1600 Case w/ 300 watt PSU
Samsung 16x DVD-Rom (you never know when they are gonna start releasing DVD only games)
Shuttle AN35N-Ultra (can take any Althon XP and certified up to PC3200 ram, also onboard sound and networking, good for future upgrades)
SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600PRO Bulk (128MB of memory, should late a while and give you a decent framerate)
Windows XP Home Edition with Service Pack SP1a

$543 shipped

Then throw in another $30 for a heatsink, 2x 80mm case fans, and shipping.

Total shipped w/ OS = ~$570 which is almost twice your stated budget.

How well that will play Doom 3, lord only knows but it should suffice. Best advice I have seen so far is "Just Wait."

 

[Markfw]

I have only one comment to add that hasn't been said already. I just got a new Dell 2400 at work. This thing is a piece of crap! It goes crazy and I have to re-boot it. Several other people on my floor have the same problem. Two of them bought Dells for home, then wanted me to upgrade them, Then I looked at them and had to tell them, "sorry, it doesn't have a AGP slot, or no room to expand memory, or no room for another drive", etc.... And then they said, well could I just replace the motherboard, and again the answer was NOPE.

And I am a father with a teenager. If you don't take these peoples advice, don't get mad when you son tells you he has a piece of crap.

 

[Soulkeeper]

you should be able to get atleast 30fps with their min requirements and maybe 800x600 resolution

he's gonna need atleast 512mb of system mem and something GF4 or stronger if he wants the game to run alright for game play