Doom3 Capable Budget Upgrade? Update: Bought Xbox Instead, But New Dell Deal Linked

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
My son's birthday is March 15th. Right now he plays WarCraft III on a Celeron 900, 256MB SDRAM with Radeon 7000, using an Asus CUSL mobo.

If there was a decent Dell deal on a Dimension 4600, I'd just buy that. As it is, there's only a warm deal on the Dimension 2400. If there's a PCI based video card that can run Doom3, I'll just buy that card and the 2400.

I need a mobo, CPU, memory, PS or case, and video card capable of running Doom3 at a decent resolution with FX. It's only got a 17" monitor, so 1024x768 is OK. I'll pay the premium for Intel, but I want to find the best bang for the buck to accomplish this. Can it be done for under $300.00? Any more than that, and I'll wait for a Dimension 4600 hot deal.

Thanks?


Edit - April 13th Update:
  • Two-Day Dimension 4600 Desktop Deal! $399 AR, Free Shipping

    Not as good as that last deal, but my sister will be ording this tonight. Depending on whether we can get Dell to sweeten the deal, I'll order one too. (Yes, it has an AGP slot.)
Edit -- May 23rd Update:
  • I just finished rereading this ENTIRE thread. I didn't buy that last Dell deal on the 13th, as a few of my friends did. I didn't really need it at the time, so I held off. Now I'd like to get that same deal for my older son, who is having a graduation party in one month. Naturally, the latest deal ain't so great. It's $75.00 more than I could have gotten it for last month!

    I've got 4 weeks for a better deal to come along from them, or I'll have to build. That's why I read the thread over again, to see the different configurations. Just wanted you to know, NONE of the configurations you took the time to compile, were in vain.

    Thanks loads!
 

MDE

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
13,199
1
81
I'd wait until we close in on DIII's release. If you can't wait, look at the desktop system in my sig, it's about as good as you'll get (on the AMD side), minus the memory.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
DO NOT buy that dell....

athlon 2500 = 75
shuttle an35n = 60
2 * 256 pc-3200 = 75
decent HSF = 10
antec case w/PSU = 70
keep the opticals and periphials from the old computer


= 290 + shipping

granted this does not include a video card, you for under 300 you cannot get a decent setup including video card. save up 100 more bucks and get FS/FT 9600pro.

my prices may be off by a few dollars here and there, im going off memory ;)

and you say you will pay the premium for intel? do you like shooting yourself in the foot?
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
I don't want to listen to screaming fans needed to keep an Athlon cool. I've got Zalmen fan speed controls on ALL fans in the system for that reason. Can I trust the Athlon to keep running with low RPM on the fans? Will it it croak if the fan happens to not spin up, due to a low RPM setting? I think we both know the answer to that. I don't want to buy an expensive P4 rated PS, to meet requirements of an Athlon CPU, or be wondering if a lower powered PS is causing issues. Dell gets by with cheap 200watt PS units in their Intel systems, and they're rock solid. I'll stick with what I KNOW works.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Originally posted by: Ornery
I don't want to listen to screaming fans needed to keep an Athlon cool. I've got Zalmen fan speed controls on ALL fans in the system for that reason. Can I trust the Athlon to keep running with low RPM on the fans? Will it it croak if the fan happens to not spin up, due to a low RPM setting? I think we both know the answer to that. I don't want to buy an expensive P4 rated PS, to meet requirements of an Athlon CPU, or be wondering if a lower powered PS is causing issues. Dell gets by with cheap 200watt PS units in their Intel systems, and they're rock solid. I'll stick with what I KNOW works.

are you nuts? screaming fans? you obviously havnt built many athlon systems. an expensive P4 rated PS? i thik about 99.99999% of PSU's are "p4 certified" its just a marketing gimic, of course they will certify they highest selling CPU company, they would be nuts not to. you do know that you are WASTING money going with an intel on a budget system......

and whatever budget intel system you decide to make, i garuntee i could have made a fast system for cheaper.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
If I have a CPU burn up due to the fan not spinning, there goes all my savings. Not to mention the noise issue...

If I buy a $15.00 PS, and the system keeps crashing, that will be the first suspect. I feel confident that a P4 will run fine with whatever PS I use due to Dell's example.
 

oldfart

Lifer
Dec 2, 1999
10,207
0
0
These days, a P4 runs HOTTER than an AMD setup and uses MORE power. You can build either without a noisy fan. Either will need ~ the same spec PS.

As far as Dell Vs build your own, dont forget the cost of an OS and other software that may be part of the bundle.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Originally posted by: Ornery
If I have a CPU burn up due to the fan not spinning, there goes all my savings. Not to mention the noise issue...

If I buy a $15.00 PS, and the system keep crashing, that will be the first suspect. I feel confident that a P4 will run fine with whatever PS I use due to Dell's example.

i didnt say buy a $15 dollar PSU. i said buy a $70 antec case, which comes with a VERY nice PSU. and i feel confident you are a fanboy denying that AMD is obviously they better route to go this time...
 

oldfart

Lifer
Dec 2, 1999
10,207
0
0
$15 PS on a P4 system?? Not a good idea. El Cheapo PS can cause you grief with any system P4 or AMD.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
well, it looks like you have 3 options

1) suck it up and get the AMD system

2) buy a dell without an AGP slot JUST to have a P4....

3) make the same mistake twice and get your son another celeron.


 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
It's looking like a hot deal Dell system is the way to go. They have no trouble running a 2.66GHz CPU with cheap PS and super low RPM fan. Throw in the OS, mobo, memory, HDD, CDROM and ship it all free. I can't beat that...

"make the same mistake twice and get your son another celeron."

Like, if I had gotten a Duron, he'd be able to run Doom3 on it.
rolleye.gif


Like, the mobo used for the Duron (in the CUSL era), would accept a CPU that can Doom3.
rolleye.gif
 

oldfart

Lifer
Dec 2, 1999
10,207
0
0
What makes you think Dell uses a "cheap" PS? Low power rating does not mean cheap. You can have a high quality low power PS or a $20 "450W" piece of junk. I do like how quiet Dells are. My rig is 'Dell quiet". There is no reason to have a noisy rig whether it is pre built, or build it yourself, AMD or Intel based.

I would go for the 4600 over the 2400. No AGP slot on the 2400 is very limiting.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
I'm assuming it's cheap. I also am worried about an Athlon taking a sh|t if the cpu fan doesn't run at all. I'm always taking that chance with a fan speed control attached...

I'm just going to have to get him something different for his birthday. I'll be kicking myself for not waiting for a Dell deal.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
30,471
27,257
146
Originally posted by: Ornery
If I have a CPU burn up due to the fan not spinning, there goes all my savings. Not to mention the noise issue...
Thermal death due to fan failure or the heatsink falling off is largely a thing of the past now with AMD CPUs. They have an on-die temp sensor and most boards support overheat protection that is actually functional now. I've tested it with a Soltek SL-75MRN-L and 1700+ t-bred A, left the cooler off but with the fan plugged in and attempted to boot the system, the result was immediate shutdown before the fans could do more than start to spin. Subsequent attempts mimicked a dead CPU,remounted the cooler and it booted as if nothing happened.

As to the fan noise, others have addressed that but I'll add that you can have a near silent AMD system even with moderate overclocking. Heck, I just read yesterday that someone on the AT staff, I think Kristopher or Evan, has a AMD 64 system that's passively cooled :beer:
 

oldfart

Lifer
Dec 2, 1999
10,207
0
0
Thermal management has improved greatly on AMD CPUs from awhile back. If you really want to put together a fast budget system yourself, you should do some reading and see what is out there. You cant beat an AMD based system right now. I've pretty much always run Intel, but if I were looking to do what you are, it would be AMD, no question.
 

Kaieye

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,275
0
0
I would buy the ECS/Barton special for $90 bucks at Fry's, L&C 350 watt ps at SVC, refurbed 9700 pro video card from newegg and cheap memory advertised everyweek thru Bestbuys or circuit city.

The Power supply should run $20 and the video card should run around $160( I have seen it used for $160 on craigslist).
 

Elcs

Diamond Member
Apr 27, 2002
6,278
6
81
If you were in the UK, Id quite easily give you a list of components, price and then answer your questions/doubts.

Id advise AMD and I'll try to put your problems into an AMD context.

Your issues with heat (thermal meltdown) could be averted by the news that most boards will support Thermal Shutdown or even Throttling. The motherboard will 'throttle', slow down, the chip when it reaches a certain temperature to prevent it from reaching a stage where it will damage the chip. Most motherboards support this and AMD's thermal management can and will shutdown the machine if the throttling doesnt solve the heat issue.

Your issues with heat and therefore noise from fans is a bit more complex. Probably for a slight price premium, you can get a 'mobile' AMD chip. These run at lower voltages as they were desgined for low battery consumption in laptops. Mobile Bartons sold by most retailers will fit Socket A boards and have no issues with most, if not all nforce2 boards. Lower voltages = lower heat output which in simple terms means you can cut down on the noise factor.

A good power supply is recommended whatever platform you use. Its a fact that any power supply can go a bit loco and fry your entire system but these instances are very, very rare with quality power supplies. 5 years back, I was quite young and learned a lot off of my elders about PC's, in those days a 300W PSU was a 300W PSU..... brand meant nothing apart from £1 or £2 here and there. Nowadays some Power Supply manufacturers make cheap power supplies which arent of high quality and are more susceptible to not provide enough power where needed or to fry something. My dad recently fried 2 mobo's and 2 cpu's due to a Power Supply going crazy on him.... it wasnt a well-known brand. I dont know about anyone else but Id pay an extra bit of cash for quality on my PSU to minimise the risk of something going wrong.

If you can put together a whole unit without much trouble, it will 99% of the time be better than any 'deal'. From my experience with my AMD system and Anandtech forums, Ive never had trouble finding out what I want and their advice hasnt led me astray yet. Also, to achieve best results with your money and Doom3 performance, wait until its out and look for the best price/performance gear then.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
30,471
27,257
146
I had a L&C (Deer) 450W PSU recently that shipped with a case I used for a build and it was not very impressive. I tried it with the same system I had a true330w in and all the rails and the Vcore fluctuated under load far more than the Antec, and the 12v rating was only 18A on a 450W unit, so I just wouldn't recommend it personally despite having read a few good reviews of L&C PSUs. To paraphrase what mechBgon always preaches, a high quality PSU should be the foundation of the build and one of the components to never skimp on :beer:
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
so let me get this straight....your going to get a computer that DOESNT EVEN HAVE A AGP slot to run doom3?

are you on crack?
 

arod

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2000
4,236
0
76
Originally posted by: nick1985
so let me get this straight....your going to get a computer that DOESNT EVEN HAVE A AGP slot to run doom3?

are you on crack?

Yep your gonna be getting crap framerates on a p4 with PCI video card... the min req's are geforce 1 and radeon 7xxx series which is the bare min prob at 640x480 with no details.... theres no way it will be smooth at 1024x768 on a pci card.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
Originally posted by: arod
Originally posted by: nick1985
so let me get this straight....your going to get a computer that DOESNT EVEN HAVE A AGP slot to run doom3?

are you on crack?

Yep your gonna be getting crap framerates on a p4 with PCI video card... the min req's are geforce 1 and radeon 7xxx series which is the bare min prob at 640x480 with no details.... theres no way it will be smooth at 1024x768 on a pci card.
Not to mention it will look as crappy as it runs. The kind of card that Doom 3 will work best with will be a DX8/9 card(something that supports pixel shading), and the best PCI card you're going to find is a GeForceFX 5200(non ultra), with everything else being below that(9200SE's, GF4/2 MX's, etc). If you aren't going to get an AGP system, just don't even bother spending the money in the first place.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Originally posted by: Ornery
It's looking like a hot deal Dell system is the way to go. They have no trouble running a 2.66GHz CPU with cheap PS and super low RPM fan. Throw in the OS, mobo, memory, HDD, CDROM and ship it all free. I can't beat that...

"make the same mistake twice and get your son another celeron."

Like, if I had gotten a Duron, he'd be able to run Doom3 on it.
rolleye.gif


Like, the mobo used for the Duron (in the CUSL era), would accept a CPU that can Doom3.
rolleye.gif

nobody ever said get a duron. duron vs. celeron although they can kick the crap out of any celeron, even with 1000 more mhz, the celeron still blows.

and im not sure why you have a crazy idea that athlons burn up if you look at them cross-eyed. they are very durable. even IF the fan stops spinning, the CPU will overheat and the computer will shut off, no permanent damage. its not going to cause a chicago fire IF the fan stops spinning...
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Wait until the game s out.
In April there will be bencmarks comparing systems.
THEN BUY.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Originally posted by: Ornery
If I have a CPU burn up due to the fan not spinning, there goes all my savings. Not to mention the noise issue...

If I buy a $15.00 PS, and the system keeps crashing, that will be the first suspect. I feel confident that a P4 will run fine with whatever PS I use due to Dell's example.

1. P4 CPUs run hotter.
2. Get any new SiS- or NVidia-based board and the CPU will shut down if it overheats. I'v done an accidental tral by fire on my current board (Shuttle AN35N-Ultra) :).
2. You keep confident there in that $15 PSU. When your P4 setup sarts having problems as well, come back and whine to us, and we'll tell you that $17 more (shipped) wouldhave soled your problem.
3. AGP slot, AGP slot, AGP slot!!!
 

us3rnotfound

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2003
5,334
3
81
Originally posted by: Cerb
Originally posted by: Ornery
If I have a CPU burn up due to the fan not spinning, there goes all my savings. Not to mention the noise issue...

If I buy a $15.00 PS, and the system keeps crashing, that will be the first suspect. I feel confident that a P4 will run fine with whatever PS I use due to Dell's example.

1. P4 CPUs run hotter.
2. Get any new SiS- or NVidia-based board and the CPU will shut down if it overheats. I'v done an accidental tral by fire on my current board (Shuttle AN35N-Ultra) :).
2. You keep confident there in that $15 PSU. When your P4 setup sarts having problems as well, come back and whine to us, and we'll tell you that $17 more (shipped) wouldhave soled your problem.
3. AGP slot, AGP slot, AGP slot!!!

Yeah, come on Ornery, you're an elite member here at this forum. It's not that hard.