Doom3 Capable Budget Upgrade? Update: Bought Xbox Instead, But New Dell Deal Linked

[SithSolo1]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Thanks Punisher, but that deal's dead, and I missed it. Hell of it is, I send out a heads up about hot Dell deals to people that may need a new PC, all the time, and missed it when I needed it!

You're all killing me with this $200.00 video card stuff! This reminds me of why I coughed up the money for our consoles. We haven't felt the need to upgrade the PCs, thanks to the PS2 and Game Cube here. Maybe I ought to get him an Xbox for his birthday instead. He's still able to run WarCraft on his PC, so this might not be such a great idea after all...

Yes, I know everyone here is tired of me butting in on things like this but I just gotta say this:

***Regardless of what you do, DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT get him Doom 3 on a console.*** He will never forgive you, there is not place for a FPS w/o mouse and keyboard. Yeah, yeah Halo was a great game. Well it would have been better on the PC first.

As for the Video card, I've never spent less than $250 on one. I've had my last card for almost 3 years and it has servered me well.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Ornery
"Well, the Dell as configured was $499 with the following specs:

• P4 2.8B (533MHz bus)
  256MB PC2700 memory (two modules for dual-channel)
  onboard video
  onboard audio
  WinXP Home
  Plain CD-ROM drive
  40GB 5400rpm IDE hard drive

Here's the deal:

This deal is so outrageous, it can only last two days! For only $399, after $150 mail-in rebate2, you get an advanced Dimension 4600 desktop regularly priced at $549 with a FREE CD burner3, and your choice of a FREE Palm ZireTM 21 PDA, a DellTM Personal All-In-One A920 printer or a Largan ChameleonTM digital camera plus FREE 3-5 day shipping4! Hurry, offer is only available 03/02/04 and 03/03/04!

• Intel® Pentium® 4 processor at 2.8 GHz
  Microsoft® Windows XP® Home Edition
  FREE CDRW Drive!
  FREE PDA, Printer or Digital Camera!
  FREE Shipping!
  $150 mail-in rebate!
  Monitor not included.

On other 4600 systems, the cheap 40GB drive is able to be upgraded to Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive (7200 RPM) for $10.00. There are frequently free upgrades to 80GB 7200RPM, and free memory upgrades in other Outrageous Deals.

Now, listen CAREFULLY. I said in the original post, that if a viable upgrade could NOT be done for a reasonable price, I'd simply buy a Dell hot deal, be it the current 2400 with a PCI video, or wait for another 4600 deal to come along.

I was told that the 4600 could NOT take an AGP card, which has since been proven false. I was told the 4600 would cost $1,000.00, and it doesn't. Now I'm told it was actually $499.00 instead of $399.00. Again, not true. I was told Doom3 would require insane PC specs to run well, but the Minimum System Configuration is:

• 1GHz CPU
  256MB RAM
  GF1 or Radeon 7xxx series card

The 2.8GHz Dell can be brought up to speed with a $40.00 memory upgrade and video card, which can wait till the game is released.

In between the original post and this one, I have learned that since my last build, AMD has improved substantially, as well as the nForce chipset. Also, that I supposedly have a closed mind, unwilling to consider an alternative. Well, it seems nobody else is willing to entertain the possibility that the Dell, with a couple upgrades, just might be the best bang for the buck. Up till now, nobody has even been willing to admit to it's selling price 4 days ago, or even the fact that it can accept an AGP card! Yet, I'm the one with a closed mind?

I will now seriously consider the system configurations mentioned, and weigh them against the 4600 deal (with upgrades) mentioned several times...

Sorry Ornery, but if the Dimension 4600 is $399, you need to show me a link to that. It's coming up at $499 minimum for me, and if that's because the deal is dead, then my price is the correct one now, not yours. After I spent probably an hour of my time trying to help you with the purchase of your son's birthday present, respecting your desire for a fast, Intel-based, DoomIII-ready, quiet computer with Windows included, it seems I'm being accused of trying to misrepresent the truth. Uh... you're welcome.

 

[nick1985]

Antec slk2600-- $49
samsung 52*32*52- $33
Tr2TT HSF(SWEET HSF)-$7.99
Floppy- $6.99
samsung 80 gig 7200- $67
2*256pc-3200- $78
shuttle AN35N- $63.99
athlon 2500- $75
saphire 9600pro- $135

SUBTOTAL $515.97



END OFTHREAD

 

[Ornery]

Thanks for the help mechBgon, but the link is right in the lengthy post you quoted. As I said in the original post, I'll wait till another deal comes around.

nick wants to end the topic before finishing his abreviated list. Yeah, it's missing the operating system and shipping charges. Oh, and he said he'd build TWO better systems for the cost of the Dell!

 

[MDE]

From your link Ornery:
[After $150 Mail-in Rebate]
Expires 03/03/04.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Oh, and he said he'd build TWO better systems for the cost of the Dell!

Originally posted by: AIWGuru
That dell is over $1000. I could literally build a better system for $500. Whoever said he could too, is probably right.
edit: your ASUS keyboard issue is isolated. I've never heard of it before. I don't think it reflects on the brand at all.

i wasnt the one who said they could make 2. all i said was i can make a better computer for the money than a dell...

shipping charges dependson where you live and if you are going to BUY winXP....its $95

so with the rig i configured and BUYING xp...that puts you a little over 600 for a kick ass rig.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Ornery

You're all killing me with this $200.00 video card stuff! This reminds me of why I coughed up the money for our consoles. We haven't felt the need to upgrade the PCs, thanks to the PS2 and Game Cube here. Maybe I ought to get him an Xbox for his birthday instead. He's still able to run WarCraft on his PC, so this might not be such a great idea after all...

I know it's a bit painful to look at, but it's what you have to deal with. Video cards, for all intents and purposes, are a miniture computer in and of themselves; it has a core processing unit, memory, and several other do-dads all over the place. As such, a good one is priced pretty highly, since one can't make a quality cheap card(the cost of the RAM alone would push you above budget). It's just something you have to deal with.

 

[RollWave]

this thread is so frustrating...

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: rnp614
this thread is so frustrating...

especially since he doesnt listen well.

 

[RollWave]

amd is easily the better way to go, but this guy wont take the the advice he asked for, I love people like that.

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: rnp614
amd is easily the better way to go, but this guy wont take the the advice he asked for, I love people like that.

no crap. it makes me wanna pull my hair out...

 

[SithSolo1]

Ok, all of us AMD supporters are basically quoting different variants of the same system so to save everyone some reading time I thought I'd show the consensus:

Antec case w/ at least 300 psu: $ range = $45-60 shipping from Newegg.com is a flat $15 no matter where you live.

Sub $70 NF2 mobo (Shuttle, Biostar, Chaintec): $60-$70 shipping should be free. I recommend the Shuttle AN35N-Ultra because I put one in my little brother's rig and it's solid as a rock.

AMD Athlon XP 2500+: $75-80 shipping should be free. I recommend the Retail version as the new 2500+'s don't OC very well and OCing can decrease stability. Regardless of whether or not you OC it, the fact is that this is THE bang for buck AMD cpu right now.

512MB of name brand DDR ram: $70-90 shipping should be free. It doesn't matter as much what speed you get but 512MB is a must. One stick or two doesn't matter that much. And if you do not want to OC you don't need anything over PC2700 unless it's cheaper to get.

80GB HD: $70-80 shipping should be free. Brand doesn't really matter but most recommend Western Digital.

CD-Rom/CD-RW/DVD-Rom: $15-35 shipping should be free. Get what you know.

Floppy: ~$7 w/ $6 shipping. Personally I don't think you really need one.

Nvidia/ATi video card equal to or greater than Ati Radeon 9600 Pro: $135 and up shipping should be free. Make this your last purchase. For now just throw in a temp card.

OS = WinXP Home w/ SP1a: $95 shipping should be free.

Total shipped: $593 and up for a complete system that should play Doom 3 or anything else you throw at it for a while. You can save a few dollars by getting a smaller HD, no Floppy, and a slower CPU but even then you are only saving around $60 max.

I think that pretty much sums up the AMD side so let it rest. If anyone has any other ideas to help Ornery then by all means post them.

PS: You may already do this but if you do decide to built son(I don't know how old he is) one, I think he would really get a kick out of helping you put it together. I know I would. Just give him the parts all wrapped up and then spend the rest of the day putting it together even if he is only handing you the parts. Of course then there is always the chance that a part may not work and then he may have to wait a few days. Happened to my brother on Christmas. :Q

 

[Ornery]

Are these benches close to accurate? How would the $600.00 AMD system rank on there?

I found NewEgg's shipping to be very reasonable. nick's configuration came to $ 610.99 shipped, without HS/Fan, floppy, mouse, keyboard or Palm Zire that was included in the 4600 deal. That would total $585 with the HDD bumped up to 7200RPM, memory up to 512MB, and $135.00 video card added, and would include that Palm PDA, too. Whether that benches close to the AMD or not, I don't know...

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Are these benches close to accurate? How would the $600.00 AMD system rank on there?

I found NewEgg's shipping to be very reasonable. nick's configuration came to $ 610.99 shipped, without HS/Fan, floppy, mouse, keyboard or Palm Zire that was included in the 4600 deal. That would total $585 with the HDD bumped up to 7200RPM, memory up to 512MB, and $135.00 video card added, and would include that Palm PDA, too. Whether that benches close to the AMD or not, I don't know...

sorry the HSF i recommended wasnt in stock. another cheap great alternative is the speeze falconrock. and i had a floppy in my initial configuration, i dont know why you didnt include it. and cant he use his old keyboard andmouse? that thing works great. you will EASILY be able to hit 2.2Ghz, or 3200 speeds, with this setup. this setup will smoke a 2.8 533 bus P4 in just about any game IMO.

** and about the benchmarks...i wouldnt trust dells own "benchmarks" ** go to anandtech's homepage and look a its own un-biased benchmarks.

 

[Markfw]

Well, they might be accurate, but the video card they used is a Radeon 9800pro, which is $210, and the better part of a gaming system. They also went with better memory, more of it, and a better HD then you keep linking to. And then they put a 5800 nvidia in the AMD system to cripple it (compared to the 9800pro) They do everything to make the Dell look better, and in gaming, the AMD system still won.

Edited to remove frustating ranting text... Oh, and listen to nick, he know of what he talks about.

 

[Ornery]

Well, I for damn sure ain't paying $210.00 for a video card! The HDD can be upgraded for only $10.00, as I keep saying. I'm not sweating a HS/Fan, keyboard, or mouse, but I will have to add a couple Zalmen fan controllers to anything other than the Dell rig, and hope it's still happy. I'm also concerned about stability more than a scant speed difference.

 

[arod]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Well, I for damn sure ain't paying $210.00 for a video card! The HDD can be upgraded for only $10.00, as I keep saying. I'm not sweating a HS/Fan, keyboard, or mouse, but I will have to add a couple Zalmen fan controllers to anything other than the Dell rig, and hope it's still happy. I'm also concerned about stability more than a scant speed difference.

An AMD with proper parts will be just as stable if not more stable than a Dell because you know every single part would be quality in a home built machine vs you get what dell thinks you need... My AMD 2000+ is still rock solid ( I dont remember it crashing once in the 6 months now that Ive had it)

 

[Markfw]

If you don't spend the money, you get what you pay for, crap ! And it is not a scant speed difference. The 9800pro kills the 5800, and many others. Just take a look at This page and then you can see an example of why you need a $210 video card to play DoomIII nicely. There are many more benchmarks, but this should suffice. If you don't believe us, read more, and you will, we are just trying to save you 40 hours of reading (that we have already done) so you can make your son happy. When I want to make my sone happy with a nice present, I don't go cheap and hope he will like it. I research and buy WHAT IS NEEDED, and he IS then happy.

 

[Ornery]

I don't mean a scant speed difference between video cards, I mean between the final configurations. Either would be using the same video, whether it was $50.00 or $300.00. $300.00! God, that's sick! If that's what it takes to get the job done, then I'd be more inclined to wait till the $200.00 video cards cost $75.00. I know that doesn't take too horribly long.

I've already been looking at Xbox bundles, just to give you an idea of where I'm leaning at this point...

 

[Markfw]

When you are talking gaming, and speeds of the CPU over 2.5 ghz (or equivalent in terms of a P4), then the video card is the SINGLE most important thing in the system. If you want to run 640x480 graphics (xbox) with no anti-aliasing or anything, then of course its going to be cheap to build. Go to a computer store and ask to see a 9800pro in action on some of todays latest games. THEN you can see why the video card is so important. Oh, and also have them try the same game (HALO, splinter cell, BF1942, call of duty) on a 9600se of 5200 video card. You can see the difference night and day, and your son will notice too. The last thing you want is for all of his friends to laugh at him when they see a cheap video card, and watch the slideshow as the game goes on.

Oh, and by the time a 9800pro gets to $75, you will still need a $200 video card to play the games that are popular then, as the games continue to get more demanding. Suck it up and buy the card........

 

[AIWGuru]

Holy cow! That picture of the dell 4600's power supply amazes me. No more than 150 on the 5+3.3v combined rail?!?! What a piece of CRAP!
Wow. I wouldn't put too much in that thing. Got USB? Better get a powered hub! LOL!
Seriously, your kid is not likely to be as happy with this crappy dell. It's got a proprietary case, a proprietary motherboard, and a proprietary power supply (with special connector.)
What happens if you EVER want to upgrade? SOL.
What happens if your motherboard or power supply dies outside of the 1yr warranty? Gonna get one from Dell? Know how much THAT costs?

 

[Ornery]

WTF are you laughing about, nimrod? Have you finally gotten over the FACT that it DOES have an AGP slot? And, you were so GD sure it didn't! Now I'm supposed to listen to whatever else you have to add? FOAD.

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: Ornery
WTF are you laughing about, nimrod? Have you finally gotten over the FACT that it DOES have an AGP slot? And, you were so GD sure it didn't! Now I'm supposed to listen to whatever else you have to add? FOAD.

First, keep the personal insults out of it.
Second, I was basing the fact that it has no AGP slot on what other people in this thread posted.
You remind me of someone plugging their fingers and singing "LA LA LA LA LA! I DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS!"

 

[Varun]

Ok Ornery, you may as well leave the thread because you have gotten ample advice and choose to disregard all of it.

The AGP slot that was missing was the Dell 2400 that YOU linked to in your original thread. The Benchmarks you linked to were of a 4600 completely different than the 499 deal. Also, Bapco sysmark? I would check out Anandtech benchmarks if I were you to get a more unbiased view.

You have been shown many many times that you can make a system better than the Dell for less money. If you configure that cheap 4600 to even have a chance to play Doom 3 the price is no longer 499, but closer to 900 with no moniter, speakers, or software. Many times you have been shown that you can get a better system for around the 600 dollar mark.

Before you leave the thread, just please tell us why you would ask for advice, be given lots of great advice, and then call the people liars and ignore everything they say...

and then buy the Dell and hate it.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: Ornery
WTF are you laughing about, nimrod? Have you finally gotten over the FACT that it DOES have an AGP slot? And, you were so GD sure it didn't! Now I'm supposed to listen to whatever else you have to add? FOAD.

I didn't read the whole thread because it's mostly a flamefest, but how about waiting to see what the reviews say when the game comes out and then buying a PC for it? Just get your son a nice cake for his B-Day and tell him he's getting a new computer in a few weeks; I doubt he'll complain.