Are you not proud to be a U.S. citizen? It seem like you are having trouble supporting the country you live in. Clearly, your arguments are not for the benefit of the U.S.Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Snoop
I dont remeber anyone confirming that the hiden compound they found in the desert was a weapons facility. It was speculated on by the press. As for the chem suits and antidote, it is factual and NOT speculation but of course your going to ignore this and keep spewing rhetoric.Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Snoop
Its funny that now that we have found 2000+ Iraqi chemical weapons suits along with atropine injection kits , you probably think Sadam bought all this stuff in case the US decided to use chemical weapons.
Yeah, and they also said they discovered a 100 acre chemical weapon factory.
Well, that's my point. With all those so called facts going around, how can we tell what is factual or speculation? Even if that is true, you are forbidding a country with 22 million from having ANY chemical suit or antidote? Who is spewing rhetoric now?
I swear to God man, are you really this blind or if not, are you trying as hard as you can to make yourself blind?
My goodness, you are so patriotic that you will believe in anything that justify the war. If all those make you sleep better knowing that all those cost and the people killed, both American and Iraqis, are doing something for our society, so be it.
If you want to believe the chemical suit/antidote is an absolute evidance of Iraqis having WMD, so be it. Who cares, right? they don't need to have it just so in case Iran attacks them with chemical weapon. Or they might be left over from chemcial warfare with Iran years ago. Or preparation for nuts like that Japanes guy releasing poisoneous gas. Well, whatever I say will be viewed as unpatriotic because that's not what you want to hear.
If you want to believe the chemical suit/antidote is an absolute evidance of Iraqis having WMD, so be it. Who cares, right? they don't need to have it just so in case Iran attacks them with chemical weapon. Or they might be left over from chemcial warfare with Iran years ago. Or preparation for nuts like that Japanes guy releasing poisoneous gas. Well, whatever I say will be viewed as unpatriotic because that's not what you want to hear.
It really has nothing to do with believing everything we hear. Clearly, there are some individuals in this world that can't be trusted - (e.g. Saddam Hussein.) Over the past few years, he's killed more of his own people than the allied forces will kill during this whole war. This war is taking place now so your grandchildren (heaven forbid you have any off-springs with your demeanor) will have a better life.
[Edit:] The time to stop Saddam Hussein is now. If he's not stopped, how far will he go? Since you seem to know everything, maybe you can provide me with some answers on why the allied forces should not continue the mission of liberating Iraq. I'm awaiting your response. Tick ... Tock ... Tick ... Tock ...
Don't tell me my grandchildren will have better life because Iraqi people are freed. You know what, my 3 year old was working with speech theropist and initially we heard there was a government funded program for free. But guess what, the program was stopped just this year thanks to lack of funding. Good thing I can afford to pay on my own for his theorpy, but how many kids may be affected by this. Well this may not be caused by this war, but I can only imaging how many more programs like this will be cut to pay for the war and to rebuild Iraq. My grandchildren may or may not have better life because of this war, but they are definitly going to miss something because of the war.
If all these are for a good cause, that is fine, I can live with it. But so far, no one is able to tell me why the war is for a good cause. Are we really freeing Iraqi people? You and I are a world away from Iraq, how do we tell if they want us to go in and fight for them? How do we know they are not capabile of fighting on their own and decide on what government is better for them. Do you really want to get into the racial conflict between all the tribes in Iraq? How do we know the new government, which I am pretty sure Bush will appoint from the political exile, is going to be good for Iraq? How do we know the new government is going to even be good for US, after all we are very much responsible for putting Hussein in power, look where it get us?
Saddam Hussien is a regional problem IMHO, and even if we want to take care of him, we should get International community to back us because we are getting rid of him for the good of the international community. Bush has not a proof that Hussein has WMD, and even if he has, he is no more dangerous then North Korean, who will soon have nuclear capability and missile capable of reaching US west coast. The war against terrorism is a difficult war, it is not a war to be fought with force. Terroist are fighting us using themself as weapon, not high tech weapons or large army. Unless we can win the battle of the mind, by not interferring other countries' policy and imposing other people with our culture and ideals, there is no way we can eliminate danger from our children.
You can put Bush on the not to be trusted list for me. The man is working hard to destroy our freedoms so that we can be just like the poor Iraqis.
You trust Bush , Cheney, Ashcroft, Mueller, George Tenant?
Why does Bush have a hard on for Saddam Hussein anyway. Why Saddam and not keep after the hard job of Al Qaeda? Why Saddam and not any of the other host of vicious, horrible dictators around the world?
Hint .... 43 out of the top 50 Bush Administration officials are from the oil industry.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,767
- 6,336
- 126
No SCUDs have been fired or even seen. Many media outlets claimed SCUD use, but had to stop claiming it after they were discovered to be Al Samouds.
Linked for your viewing pleasure. Fourth paragraph.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,767
- 6,336
- 126
Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech
Are you not proud to be a U.S. citizen? It seem like you are having trouble supporting the country you live in. Clearly, your arguments are not for the benefit of the U.S.Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Snoop
I dont remeber anyone confirming that the hiden compound they found in the desert was a weapons facility. It was speculated on by the press. As for the chem suits and antidote, it is factual and NOT speculation but of course your going to ignore this and keep spewing rhetoric.Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Snoop
Its funny that now that we have found 2000+ Iraqi chemical weapons suits along with atropine injection kits , you probably think Sadam bought all this stuff in case the US decided to use chemical weapons.
Yeah, and they also said they discovered a 100 acre chemical weapon factory.
Well, that's my point. With all those so called facts going around, how can we tell what is factual or speculation? Even if that is true, you are forbidding a country with 22 million from having ANY chemical suit or antidote? Who is spewing rhetoric now?
Ah yes, question one's patriotism.
I believe Bush will be voted out in 2004. Money talks and to put it bluntly, the economy blows. Bush started this war because his domestic policies have been complete bombs. The tax break was a joke, his handling of corporate scandals has been a blunder, and its obvious that he isn't a real bright man as when he is asked economic questions, he repeats the same line over and over (I'm assuming someone told him to say it). For all the Clinton bashing that went on during the past 8 years, deep down even the most diehard conservatives would trade it for the last 2 years. Our we better off now then we were 4 years ago? Majority of folks will say no. The people wanted morals and honesty. What we now have is high unemployment, bearish stock market, color alerts on our tv screen, homeland security, a war, and 2 guys who will make off like bandits when they award their buddies government contracts to rebuild Iraq. Give me a booming stock market, low unemployment, no terrorism, and Monica and Bill back any day.
I have a new name for bush, it's Triple B "BBB", short for Bird Brain Bush
shock and awe my behind
shock and awe my behind
I guess the Enron mess and Kenny boy the good old pal of Bush has nothing to do with this economy? And the witch hunt by the SEC, whose boss is appointed by Bush, after the Enron mess sure helped the economy.......and he sure did a good job staying out of the troubled Airline company, oh yeah and his tax rebate really stimulated the economy.
This all seems to have developed into two different topics: the war, and economics.
First, the war. I'm not opposed to the idea of eliminating people like Saddam Hussein, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who is opposed to that. Even countries that are not siding with us in this conflict would agree that it is not safe for him to be in the position he is in. The problem that most, myself included, take with the current situation is Bush's handling of it: why has he chosen this moment, after 13+ years of the same ol' s#$@ from Saddam, to start the attack? Why not take the extra time and resolve necessary to work things out with all of our allies? (Was he really going to get away with anything if we waited an extra month?). Does he really lack the political saavy to just shut up about the "we can go it alone, forget the rest of the international community" commentary? And most importantly, what happens to our status as an important global power now? We have alienated allies, ripped apart organizations that for all their flaws do serve a good purpose. Additionally, I think that in a situation where the U.S. was not pushing so strongly for war, unitarily, our chances of ousting Saddam from power (with the backing of a great many other countries), would have been much higher (i.e. Saddam is more likely to fight when it is mainly the U.S. than if it had been a wider global coalition).
Second, economics. For the person defending Bush and yet also asking somebody to "take an economics class," a quick review of one of the basics of macroeconomics, The Wealth Effect. Wealth is the combination of capital and government debt. When government debt increases (such as by a ludicrous deficit caused by outrageous tax cuts that anyone would be hard to justify... are the rich really the ones who need more money?), it displaces capital, slowing capital growth, one of.. and arguably, the most, improtant factor in economic growth. That's why his economic policies are poor, because his reasoning is poor, and his motives are questionable (if he really wanted to "stimulate" the economy, he wouldn't do anything for the richest bracket.. they can buy a lot already.. he would give more money back to the poorest, because in their situation they have little choice but to spend all the money they have, thus actually causing some stimulation).
Lastly, the accusations of anti-Americanism or being unpatriotic. I would in fact say the opposite; opposing voices are the key to a successful democracy. Without questioning our leaders, our ideas, our actions, would we ever make any improvement? It is a good thing when everyone doesn't agree, not a bad thing. Differences of opinion lead to discussion (valuable even on Anandtech Forums), reform, and progress. We don't question the U.S. because we hate it, but because we value it and are passionate about it and its future. And, despite being opposed to our going to the war in the first place, I say that now we are at war, I strongly support our troops (as would practically everyone who was opposed prior). Guys, kick some ass, keep safe, and come home alive when its over.
Damn, that was long. Sorry.
First, the war. I'm not opposed to the idea of eliminating people like Saddam Hussein, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who is opposed to that. Even countries that are not siding with us in this conflict would agree that it is not safe for him to be in the position he is in. The problem that most, myself included, take with the current situation is Bush's handling of it: why has he chosen this moment, after 13+ years of the same ol' s#$@ from Saddam, to start the attack? Why not take the extra time and resolve necessary to work things out with all of our allies? (Was he really going to get away with anything if we waited an extra month?). Does he really lack the political saavy to just shut up about the "we can go it alone, forget the rest of the international community" commentary? And most importantly, what happens to our status as an important global power now? We have alienated allies, ripped apart organizations that for all their flaws do serve a good purpose. Additionally, I think that in a situation where the U.S. was not pushing so strongly for war, unitarily, our chances of ousting Saddam from power (with the backing of a great many other countries), would have been much higher (i.e. Saddam is more likely to fight when it is mainly the U.S. than if it had been a wider global coalition).
Second, economics. For the person defending Bush and yet also asking somebody to "take an economics class," a quick review of one of the basics of macroeconomics, The Wealth Effect. Wealth is the combination of capital and government debt. When government debt increases (such as by a ludicrous deficit caused by outrageous tax cuts that anyone would be hard to justify... are the rich really the ones who need more money?), it displaces capital, slowing capital growth, one of.. and arguably, the most, improtant factor in economic growth. That's why his economic policies are poor, because his reasoning is poor, and his motives are questionable (if he really wanted to "stimulate" the economy, he wouldn't do anything for the richest bracket.. they can buy a lot already.. he would give more money back to the poorest, because in their situation they have little choice but to spend all the money they have, thus actually causing some stimulation).
Lastly, the accusations of anti-Americanism or being unpatriotic. I would in fact say the opposite; opposing voices are the key to a successful democracy. Without questioning our leaders, our ideas, our actions, would we ever make any improvement? It is a good thing when everyone doesn't agree, not a bad thing. Differences of opinion lead to discussion (valuable even on Anandtech Forums), reform, and progress. We don't question the U.S. because we hate it, but because we value it and are passionate about it and its future. And, despite being opposed to our going to the war in the first place, I say that now we are at war, I strongly support our troops (as would practically everyone who was opposed prior). Guys, kick some ass, keep safe, and come home alive when its over.
Damn, that was long. Sorry.
That seems to be a very uninformed opinion to me. The events that have happened that have slowed the economy would still have happened if Clinton had gotten a third term(if that were possible). I don't see anything in your examples that would have changed if Clinton or Gore were leading the US. Convince me that I am wrong.
Triple I have posted about the trials and tribulations of the Clinton military ad nauseum. It is not the same troops, same equipment, same morale or even close to anything resembling the Clinton military. You are woefully misinformed. Don't mistake a late term political move designed to make Gore look "defense friendly" as being anything even remotely tied to support of the military.
I suppose you'll also try and link Bush to the MCI-Worldcom accounting scandal or the Royal Dutch Ahold rebate/accounting scandal currently in progress, too. Bush could have been friends with Kenneth Lay of Enron, but Bush was not on the board of directors guiding or directing that company. Clearly, the mess and the creation of the mess lies within the executive offices of Enron.
we wouldnt be in the middle of deficit spending, cutting off the largest flow of investment capital the US had seen since ww2....
lol watched Bush speak to his nation last night (Im English, it was on the news) and heard him stutter and stumble through the entire speech. There is no doubt in my mind that Bush is the worst president I have ever seen. America as a nation may be great, no-one doubts that, but jesus your'e led by morons.
If you had a great President who could have actually got the UN friendly towards his country and made unbreakable links with Europe, you would have and could become the greatest nation in history. As it is youre merely incredibly rich, but pretty much universally disliked and held in low-regard by much of the world. If I was American I'd be going crazy about it. :Q
If you had a great President who could have actually got the UN friendly towards his country and made unbreakable links with Europe, you would have and could become the greatest nation in history. As it is youre merely incredibly rich, but pretty much universally disliked and held in low-regard by much of the world. If I was American I'd be going crazy about it. :Q
More like ENVIED by the rest of the world..
The rest of the world watches the US, while we watch T.V., why is it everyone is so on top of american affairs? I generally pay no attention to things I dislike....:Q
We are the greatest nation in history, we are the longest standing democracy, as well as the worlds premier superpower. Unlike Britian, we are not using our supremacy to expand our control and enslave other nations though....
The rest of the world watches the US, while we watch T.V., why is it everyone is so on top of american affairs? I generally pay no attention to things I dislike....:Q
We are the greatest nation in history, we are the longest standing democracy, as well as the worlds premier superpower. Unlike Britian, we are not using our supremacy to expand our control and enslave other nations though....
Actually, just the opposite affects me. If one speaks in too polished of a manner, I feel they have something to hide. Who cares if Pres. Bush stumbles a little bit in his speaking. He has a 'top notch' cabinet that is running the Government and doing a darn fine job.
I was always worried about Pres. Clinton. He could speak well ... but he had so much to hide. He could lie to us Americans and most would believe him. Shame on us.
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