Don't beat around the BUSH, beat the Bush.

[Richdog]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
More like ENVIED by the rest of the world..

The rest of the world watches the US, while we watch T.V., why is it everyone is so on top of american affairs? I generally pay no attention to things I dislike....:Q

We are the greatest nation in history, we are the longest standing democracy, as well as the worlds premier superpower. Unlike Britian, we are not using our supremacy to expand our control and enslave other nations though....

LOL hmm now I see it... people like THIS elect Bush...

 

[dangereuxjeux]

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

lol watched Bush speak to his nation last night (Im English, it was on the news) and heard him stutter and stumble through the entire speech. There is no doubt in my mind that Bush is the worst president I have ever seen. America as a nation may be great, no-one doubts that, but jesus your'e led by morons.

Actually, just the opposite affects me. If one speaks in too polished of a manner, I feel they have something to hide. Who cares if Pres. Bush stumbles a little bit in his speaking. He has a 'top notch' cabinet that is running the Government and doing a darn fine job.

I was always worried about Pres. Clinton. He could speak well ... but he had so much to hide. He could lie to us Americans and most would believe him. Shame on us.

Is this how ridiculous a sentiment has to be to justify Bush's inability to speak? You really find it comforting when the leader of the country is unable to express simple ideas, complete sentences regurally, or pronounce "nuclear"? Honestly, saying that people who make polished comments have something to hide is a desperate maneuver designed around one thing: it is virtually impossible to excuse the lack of intelligence exposed in his speeches (he might not be "stupid," but the lights not shinging all that brightly up there). If Bush was a sauve speaker and Clinton had spoken like a confused sixth grader, I imagine you would still be attacking Clinton. Let's face it, our leader cannot inspire confidence in us, display an understanding of the situation (hence his repeated use of the phrase "I understand"; if you really understand do you have to keep telling us so?), or work with the international community effectively through his speeches.

 

[Richdog]

Couldnt have put it better myself...

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
More like ENVIED by the rest of the world..

The rest of the world watches the US, while we watch T.V., why is it everyone is so on top of american affairs? I generally pay no attention to things I dislike....:Q

We are the greatest nation in history, we are the longest standing democracy, as well as the worlds premier superpower. Unlike Britian, we are not using our supremacy to expand our control and enslave other nations though....

No, we aren't the greatest in nation in history. 30 years of being a superpower is a drop in the bucket. Lets see the US continue this for 1000 years.

 

[NightTrain]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
president propses a budget and signs it into effect after congress has their say...

It's a legal requirement for the president to propose a budget. It's not a legal requirement for Congress to even consider it. Spending bills are written in the House...reconciled with the Senate and sent to the executive for signature.

 

[Yax]

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

So you think the war was created to distract us from our current economic condition in the U.S.??? Where were you during the previous recessions? Where were you when the unemployment rates were in the double-digits? Where were you when personal loans, automobile loans and mortgages were at 18%? I hardly think that our economy is in trouble - and if it is, how is Bush fully the one to blame? Did President Bush tell everyone to go out and over-extend themselves when it came to credit? Did President Bush tell everyone to take out home equity loans and buy two new SUVs to park in the driveway and to tow a new boat or a pair of jet skis around? Did President Bush tell people to invest lots of money in the stock market before it took a dive? I think you're getting the picture here. Clearly, you haven't been living long enough to realize that things are pretty good at the moment. Yes, we are at war, but it will end eventually - and we will prevail.

What, are you too stupid to realize that if this war didn't happen, Bush's chances of getting reelected are 0 because he has no clue how to make the economy better? What did Bush do when California had the power crisis? Nothing. He stuck his head between his legs and pretended everything was dandy while his friends in the power companies extorted billions from Californians.

What's he doing for the economy now? Nothing again? Okay, a tax cut. Big deal, lets pretend he cut 100% of taxes off the average unemployed person's salary, how much will that person get to pocket?

Another Republican flaw: Pass law that give Big companies tax breaks and save the company money so they can use the money to expand and hire more people.

The FACT: The money that company saved, they'll just poket till they see signs that the economy has improved and they can justify the risk of spending it. Meanwhile, the people are still unemployed and starving.

 

[Yax]

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: cheapbidder01
Why is Bush's approval ratings up? Shouldn't we be hammering him for failing to get UN behind us? I think he should go down in history as the most idiotic president ever. Well, at least he got us into this war which better be good for our economy. But, I wouldn't be suprised if he let the French and Russians steal all our loot after we take over, I mean, liberate Iraq.

Is this Moonbeam using a new name and a new avatar? I see quite a few similarities.

Who's Moonbeam? If there's similarities then Moonbeam is on the right track.

 

[Tiger]

Washington Whispers 03/24/03

Yep, real good authority, if your from the lunitic fringe.

He was also interviewed by MSNBC and Foxnews, which I saw. None of "team weasel" have denied it. But then again why would they, they'll go down in history as the largest congregation of pathalogical liars this country has seen since Nixon.

 

[Yax]

Originally posted by: Tiger

Washington Whispers 03/24/03

Yep, real good authority, if your from the lunitic fringe.

"I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a
cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an
attitude."
- -- Ted Nugent .

Defn:
Right Winger Republican:
1. Greedy old miser.
2. Stupid young kids who believe if they support the greedy old misers these misers will help them.
3. Ted Nugent

 

[SilverThief]

moron

 

[seawolf21]

Originally posted by: dangereuxjeux
This all seems to have developed into two different topics: the war, and economics.

First, the war. I'm not opposed to the idea of eliminating people like Saddam Hussein, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who is opposed to that. Even countries that are not siding with us in this conflict would agree that it is not safe for him to be in the position he is in. The problem that most, myself included, take with the current situation is Bush's handling of it: why has he chosen this moment, after 13+ years of the same ol' s#$@ from Saddam, to start the attack? Why not take the extra time and resolve necessary to work things out with all of our allies? (Was he really going to get away with anything if we waited an extra month?). Does he really lack the political saavy to just shut up about the "we can go it alone, forget the rest of the international community" commentary? And most importantly, what happens to our status as an important global power now? We have alienated allies, ripped apart organizations that for all their flaws do serve a good purpose. Additionally, I think that in a situation where the U.S. was not pushing so strongly for war, unitarily, our chances of ousting Saddam from power (with the backing of a great many other countries), would have been much higher (i.e. Saddam is more likely to fight when it is mainly the U.S. than if it had been a wider global coalition).

Second, economics. For the person defending Bush and yet also asking somebody to "take an economics class," a quick review of one of the basics of macroeconomics, The Wealth Effect. Wealth is the combination of capital and government debt. When government debt increases (such as by a ludicrous deficit caused by outrageous tax cuts that anyone would be hard to justify... are the rich really the ones who need more money?), it displaces capital, slowing capital growth, one of.. and arguably, the most, improtant factor in economic growth. That's why his economic policies are poor, because his reasoning is poor, and his motives are questionable (if he really wanted to "stimulate" the economy, he wouldn't do anything for the richest bracket.. they can buy a lot already.. he would give more money back to the poorest, because in their situation they have little choice but to spend all the money they have, thus actually causing some stimulation).

Lastly, the accusations of anti-Americanism or being unpatriotic. I would in fact say the opposite; opposing voices are the key to a successful democracy. Without questioning our leaders, our ideas, our actions, would we ever make any improvement? It is a good thing when everyone doesn't agree, not a bad thing. Differences of opinion lead to discussion (valuable even on Anandtech Forums), reform, and progress. We don't question the U.S. because we hate it, but because we value it and are passionate about it and its future. And, despite being opposed to our going to the war in the first place, I say that now we are at war, I strongly support our troops (as would practically everyone who was opposed prior). Guys, kick some ass, keep safe, and come home alive when its over.

Damn, that was long. Sorry.

Agree on the first part. I don't believe Europeans like Saddam either. The fallout from this is that other countries including France, Germany, and Russia will fear the new US foreign policy of shoot first and prove we were (maybe) right after. I also agree on the last part about anti-Americanism. Citizens of a democratic society are suppose to question what the ideas of their leaders and to choose to support/not support the government. Failing to question their leaders would be unpatriotic. The same goes for those who don?t vote.

However, I am on the fence as to whether to believe that the war is waged for oil. I don?t think the numbers add up. The cost of the war is going to be at least $100 billion. Bush asked for $75 billion but I believe it will go up as they always do and because we are deploying 120,000 more troops. I?m assuming reconstruction cost will be financed by Iraqi oil. I believe developing oil fields in other parts of the world cost less than $100 billion (Exxon spent $1.3 billion on exploration expenditures last year; Texaco $1billion), doesn?t alienate us from other major countries, and doesn?t result in the US flag draped over body bags.

 

[Thraxen]

No SCUDs have been fired or even seen. Many media outlets claimed SCUD use, but had to stop claiming it after they were discovered to be Al Samouds.

Oh, you mean the Al Samouds that inspectors found were modified to have a range greater than the UN imposed limit of 150 Km? Those missles?

 

[DaisyCutter]

Originally posted by: cheapbidder01
Why is Bush's approval ratings up? Shouldn't we be hammering him for failing to get UN behind us? I think he should go down in history as the most idiotic president ever. Well, at least he got us into this war which better be good for our economy. But, I wouldn't be suprised if he let the French and Russians steal all our loot after we take over, I mean, liberate Iraq.

No, idiotic President...as in STUPID would have to be William Jefferson C...
C

 

[DaisyCutter]

"Economy Blows"

Well not if the definitions of economic prosperity are known. Economic growth is stable and predictable. What economic predictors are you using to establish this fable of a bad economy?
C

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

No SCUDs have been fired or even seen. Many media outlets claimed SCUD use, but had to stop claiming it after they were discovered to be Al Samouds.

Oh, you mean the Al Samouds that inspectors found were modified to have a range greater than the UN imposed limit of 150 Km? Those missles?

If they actually went beyond the 150km(seems likely from what I've heard) range, yes those missiles. These(illegal Al Samoud 2s) were in the process of being scrapped when the war started.

 

[Thraxen]

These(illegal Al Samoud 2s) were in the process of being scrapped when the war started.

Again, they had more than a decade to do so...and again, this is called appeasement. You actually think they were planning to destroy them all?

 

[gonzo2k]

Don't agree with reality?
You are either "one of many" in a democracy...or "none of many" in a tyranny. Sorry we acted before your opinion was noted.
Please get out of the way, now.

Thank you.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

These(illegal Al Samoud 2s) were in the process of being scrapped when the war started.

Again, they had more than a decade to do so...and again, this is called appeasement. You actually think they were planning to destroy them all?

The Al Samoud 2s are a fairly recent design, so they didn't exactly have that much time. Also, IIRC, not all the tested Al Samoud 2s exceeded the UN mandated range.

 

[dangereuxjeux]

Economic growth is stable and predictable? Once again, even if you were to tune in to that arm of the Republican party, Fox News, you would hear that our current economic growth is not sufficient. The percentages of economic growth are way down from what is desirable for a healthy economy. Second, your assertion that economic growth is predictable: have you invented some new economic theory unknown to thousands of economists? If economic growth was stable and predictable, there would never be any doubt as to our economic future, and not even the most crackhead economist (or person who has taken an economics class) would believe that. I have no problem with an intelligent disagreement to the assessment of the economy, but to label as a "fable" (unintentional rhyming) the entirely obvious economic problems facing us with little or no actual thought is careless. Please visit any reputable news source and get some factual information about the economy.

 

[WeAdair]

Why is Bush's approval ratings up? Shouldn't we be hammering him for failing to get UN behind us? I think he should go down in history as the most idiotic president ever. Well, at least he got us into this war which better be good for our economy. But, I wouldn't be suprised if he let the French and Russians steal all our loot after we take over, I mean, liberate Iraq.

Being an idiot is one thing- being arrogant is another. Bush knows a lot more about the circumstances than you or I- or anyone else posting in this thread. You have to take many other variables into consideration when you're judging a President. Clinton was a GOOD president. (sorry, all you Republicans) He knew how to smooge politically to get things done, and it's a fact that he got an average of 4 hours of sleep every 24hrs while he was in office. (don't tell me that he was busy with interns for all that time) People who have studied American Presidents all their life who do not take a partisan stance say that Clinton was a workaholic. He would have won reelection easily against anyone you wanna put up against him. Everyone knew that. It was a shame that we only had the choices we had. I liked McCain, but his party wouldn't let campaign finance reform and less friendliness to big business get on the ticket. And of course he didn't have the money coming in like Bush had. So we end up with a lesson on how our Electoral College system, Congress, and our Supreme Court work. Then, we have the worst thing that's ever happened to our country during my short lifetime. Our PRESIDENT took initiative and led us in the right direction I believe. You cannot blame a man for something that is wrong in your own life when he is responsible for so many other human beings' lives throughout the world- not just our country! I do not agree with how he handled the situation with Iraq, but I understand more and more each day why we had to do what we're committed to now. The summer is coming. Chemical/nuclear resistant suits and masks are extremely heavy and hot. Iraq is very arid. You figure it out. A huge thing that Bush could have done was not slap Russia, France, and Germany in the face. He pretty much asked them for help, and then a few months later he tells them, "we don't need you." Arrogant US foreign policy is now in the heads of the rest of the world. You can say that it should be that way- it's your opinion. Trade is not a zero-sum game, though. Everybody wins when we specialize in what we do best. We're moving more towards all info and tech, while other parts of the world are paying us for that with what they can do cheaper than us. Look ahead at where the jobs will be, and choose a career that won't hang you out to dry as the world changes. I'm sorry this post jumps back and forth between subjects so much. It may be seen as all the same subject by anyone who "gets it," though. Please don't pick out one sentence or point in this thread and use it to typify the rest of what I had to say. That is childish and proves nothing. We all are entitled to say what we want on here as long as it's not nasty. I hope no offense has been taken from what I have said. I have the utmost respect for all of you. ... unless you do not vote and are old enough to- then you have no right to be complaining about our Government. Yes, I know not voting is a form of political expression. But weigh the effects- complaining here vs. voting or telling people who represent you how you feel and what you need. Thanks for your time- sorry this got so long.

-wes

EDIT:
a little fun fact- The DJI went down 500 points in one day during Clinton's 8. It came back up. Congress is not solely responsible for our economy. The President is not solely responsible for our economy. The Fed is not solely responsible for our economy. There are other things going on, people. Stop being so myopic, and do the best with what you've got. Our economy is cyclical. Bush did not make the economy go sour- and actually if you do a little research- it isn't sour at all. It just isn't GROWING. What do you think we are, China? They can grow 5% a year because they are coming upward from NOTHING just a half century ago!!!

 

[Yax]

Originally posted by: WeAdair

Why is Bush's approval ratings up? Shouldn't we be hammering him for failing to get UN behind us? I think he should go down in history as the most idiotic president ever. Well, at least he got us into this war which better be good for our economy. But, I wouldn't be suprised if he let the French and Russians steal all our loot after we take over, I mean, liberate Iraq.

Being an idiot is one thing- being arrogant is another. Bush knows a lot more about the circumstances than you or I- or anyone else posting in this thread. You have to take many other variables into consideration when you're judging a President. Clinton was a GOOD president. (sorry, all you Republicans) He knew how to smooge politically to get things done, and it's a fact that he got an average of 4 hours of sleep every 24hrs while he was in office. (don't tell me that he was busy with interns for all that time) People who have studied American Presidents all their life who do not take a partisan stance say that Clinton was a workaholic. He would have won reelection easily against anyone you wanna put up against him. Everyone knew that. It was a shame that we only had the choices we had. I liked McCain, but his party wouldn't let campaign finance reform and less friendliness to big business get on the ticket. And of course he didn't have the money coming in like Bush had. So we end up with a lesson on how our Electoral College system, Congress, and our Supreme Court work. Then, we have the worst thing that's ever happened to our country during my short lifetime. Our PRESIDENT took initiative and led us in the right direction I believe. You cannot blame a man for something that is wrong in your own life when he is responsible for so many other human beings' lives throughout the world- not just our country! I do not agree with how he handled the situation with Iraq, but I understand more and more each day why we had to do what we're committed to now. The summer is coming. Chemical/nuclear resistant suits and masks are extremely heavy and hot. Iraq is very arid. You figure it out. A huge thing that Bush could have done was not slap Russia, France, and Germany in the face. He pretty much asked them for help, and then a few months later he tells them, "we don't need you." Arrogant US foreign policy is now in the heads of the rest of the world. You can say that it should be that way- it's your opinion. Trade is not a zero-sum game, though. Everybody wins when we specialize in what we do best. We're moving more towards all info and tech, while other parts of the world are paying us for that with what they can do cheaper than us. Look ahead at where the jobs will be, and choose a career that won't hang you out to dry as the world changes. I'm sorry this post jumps back and forth between subjects so much. It may be seen as all the same subject by anyone who "gets it," though. Please don't pick out one sentence or point in this thread and use it to typify the rest of what I had to say. That is childish and proves nothing. We all are entitled to say what we want on here as long as it's not nasty. I hope no offense has been taken from what I have said. I have the utmost respect for all of you. ... unless you do not vote and are old enough to- then you have no right to be complaining about our Government. Yes, I know not voting is a form of political expression. But weigh the effects- complaining here vs. voting or telling people who represent you how you feel and what you need. Thanks for your time- sorry this got so long.

-wes

EDIT:
a little fun fact- The DJI went down 500 points in one day during Clinton's 8. It came back up. Congress is not solely responsible for our economy. The President is not solely responsible for our economy. The Fed is not solely responsible for our economy. There are other things going on, people. Stop being so myopic, and do the best with what you've got. Our economy is cyclical. Bush did not make the economy go sour- and actually if you do a little research- it isn't sour at all. It just isn't GROWING. What do you think we are, China? They can grow 5% a year because they are coming upward from NOTHING just a half century ago!!!

Nice response, but too serious. You must be new. We're all here to just poke fun at each other, really. When posting, I already knew there's no way in hell I'm going to convince anyone of my view. They either already think the way I do or they don't. But in the end, I have lots of fun just arguing with them. Thanks for your post.

I still dislike Bush, I don't like the way he talks (very arrogant). I think he sounds stupid (stutters too much). He can't even read a speech right. I especially dislike him for not lifting a finger to help out California during the power crisis. Had it been Texas or Florida, he'd be all over it. There's no doubt, he's vengeful against Californians for not voting for him.

 

[WeAdair]

I agree about your brownout stuff. Tell the libertarians around here about your little problem out there whenever they start talking about everything being privitized. You can add a few more things to your disgruntlement list like arms sales and oil sales in Texas, too Lest we not forget the Rangers down there, either... hehe - slap on the wrist- just like Reagan and his buddies, who are still hangin out with Bush Jr. now, got after Iran Contra. Oh wait, wasn't that when we were giving chemical weapons recipies to Saddam? erhem.. I mean Rumsfeld was giving recipes to Saddam. Timeout... Our Vice President wasn't into all that was he??? oh man how do I know about all this stuff when I'm only 21 years old!!!? lol and how come people who keep voting for these kats don't seem to care?? and still seem to trash other Presidents for doing what almost every President has done. Hey, Cleveland had a bastard that popped up later on. FDR got caught cheating on his cousin.. I mean his wife.. when he was only in the House. Wait a second. Eisenhower even had a thing goin on with a reporter. And I'll leave JFK alone so all the Republicans in here won't shoot that one down. lol
I realize my posting is on the serious side... I just like to be thorough the first time so I don't have to keep posting to support all the points I was trying to make. haha
NightTrain got me into this thing. Arguing with people you don't ever have to face in person is FUN! lol

later