Does this scare the hell out of anyone else?

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: DOSfan

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: ThaPerculator

Because the dude that physically busts his arse all day will never see $100k....

Sounds like good incentive to get an education. I'm sick of the victim mentality that says, I'm going to choose to make poor decisions in life so I have to work hard for no pay, and I want society to feel sorry for me.

Lets see...

1) I have an education.

I don't mean to pick on you, but since you put yourself out there... First of all, you have Associates degrees. Why didn't you get a Bachelor's degree? You had the choice. I chose to get a Bachelor's because I knew an Associates couldn't get me a decent paying job. And don't give me excuses, because that proves the victim mentality.

2) I do not have the victim mentality.

Well, your statement about your low paying jobs, and how your roommate only sent 3 resumes last year because there's only 3 job openings due to a bad economy tells me that you play the victim role a bit. The only reason you and your roommate don't have $50,000+ jobs is because you guys didn't take the steps necessary to get one. I'm sure I'm not the only one who heard sob stories in your posts.

3) I have not made "poor" decisions. (I have made some bad ones, but not as a habit.)

See #1. Why associates degrees? That decision cost you about $25,000/yr in salary. I had a rough time deciding what I wanted to do, and didn't get my degree till 7 1/2 years after high school. Just a business degree, nothing difficult or technical. And my first job out of college paid $42,000. It's the importance of a 4-year degree.

4) I do not care if society feels sorry for me or not.

So don't expect to pay a lower percentage of taxes than me. You want me to give up a larger portion of my paycheck because I decided to sweat out college, in order to make more? If you don't feel you're a victim, and you don't want society or the government to feel sorry for you, then pony up the same percentage of taxes that I do, and don't expect the "wealthy" to pay for most of the services in this country.

And I make... About $25,000 a year.

And guess what? This is almost 100% more than I made last year. (Which is about 50% more than I have ever made in a year.)

So, I guess it is all my fault then?

More victim mentality.

So when I get my paycheck, and I have 20% taken out just in Federal Taxes alone I shouldn't get upset?

Well, like I said, that's too much. Claim a deduction or 2, and you'll get more per paycheck, and a smaller refund. But no, I don't think you have the right to be upset about anything but your own decisions in life.

My brother dropped out of college and got a job with a small company that sets up inflatable rides and attractions at parties and festivals. He works the events and is their webmaster with the very limited HTML knowledge that he has. http://www.ppimfg.com He made $30,000 last year. He used to think that was good for someone without a 4 year degree, but just got reaccepted to ASU to finish his degree, because he knows he doesn't want to make $30,000 the rest of his life.

 

[PunDogg]

i love that plan, but truely the politcs forum is over there chief

Dogg

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: DOSfan

Oh well, you will just have to trust me on this.

My gross weekly pay is about $500. That is assuming, of course, that I do not work the 8-10 hours overtime a week that my supervisers would like all of their employess to do. My weekly Federal Withholding is around $90 a week. Okay, you got me. I rounded a bit. It is a little less than 20%. But no where near 9%.

I don't think you're making anything up, but I think you are paying way too much in Federal Taxes, and should expect a nice refund. Accoring to the 2003 Tax Brackets (which can be found here), you will be taxed 10% on the first $7000 you make ($700), and 15% on the other $18,000 ($2700). So you should pay a total of $3400 in taxes. If you paid $5000, expect a $1600 refund. Actually more, because I didn't take your standard deduction into account. So your taxable income is even less than $25,000.

Don't bother him with facts. It will only cause more confusion.
Look DOSFan, if you can explain to me why you pay 5000 a year in federal taxes when all the tax tables say you should be paying 15% of 18,000, which is $2700, then I will believe you.

Maybe the IRS just makes an exception for you and forces you to pay twice as much as everyone else that is in your tax bracket.

And I don't know why you would expect it to be easier to find a good paying job when you don't have an IT education.
The fact remains that you don't pay your share. You pay far less than your share because the people who decided to get the education they needed and the skills they needed to make more money, are the one's paying much more than their share.

So quit whining. You're getting a nearly free ride from this government compared to those who make more money.

EDIT: And maybe if you would become a fan of something a little more current than DOS, you'd have better luck getting a better paying job.

 

[DOSfan]

Originally posted by: Rob9874
I don't mean to pick on you, but since you put yourself out there... First of all, you have Associates degrees. Why didn't you get a Bachelor's degree? You had the choice. I chose to get a Bachelor's because I knew an Associates couldn't get me a decent paying job. And don't give me excuses, because that proves the victim mentality.

You do have something of a point there. But the fields dried up before I finished school. I saw no reason to draw from my parents any further, for little or no gain. It was a choice I made to actually start working. And as of this point in my life, it is paying off.

Well, your statement about your low paying jobs, and how your roommate only sent 3 resumes last year because there's only 3 job openings due to a bad economy tells me that you play the victim role a bit. The only reason you and your roommate don't have $50,000+ jobs is because you guys didn't take the steps necessary to get one. I'm sure I'm not the only one who heard sob stories in your posts.

If you heard sob stories, you were looking for it. I was trying to educate the ones who thing everything is running smoothly in this country as it is, that it really isn't. The bottom sucks. Really hard. And if you do not think that something needs to be done to improve it, then here are examples of what it is like down here. And if my temperment was a little off, that is because those same fools assumed I was an idiot, just because my life did not work our the way they thought it should. Or flat out blamed me that Auto Mechanics make absolute sh!t wages now. And if you do not believe me on that, just look in the paper for Auto Mechanic jobs. Most entry level, or middle level posisitions make less than me. And for the really juicy ones, you need 10-15 years experience. At my current rate of advancement, I will be making that amount in about 3 years. So, no, there are no sob stories there.

See #1. Why associates degrees? That decision cost you about $25,000/yr in salary. I had a rough time deciding what I wanted to do, and didn't get my degree till 7 1/2 years after high school. Just a business degree, nothing difficult or technical. And my first job out of college paid $42,000. It's the importance of a 4-year degree.

See answer to #1. It was a calculated financial risk. One that actually has paid off. Education <> money. Not anymore.

So don't expect to pay a lower percentage of taxes than me. You want me to give up a larger portion of my paycheck because I decided to sweat out college, in order to make more? If you don't feel you're a victim, and you don't want society or the government to feel sorry for you, then pony up the same percentage of taxes that I do, and don't expect the "wealthy" to pay for most of the services in this country.

Actually, for the record, I do not give a damn what you, or anyone else pays in taxes. I only care what I pay in taxes. And I am sick and tired of doing so. I do not care if all of the taxes are paid by the ultra rich, or removed entirely. Just as long as I do not have to pay them.

Daaaaaammmmnnnn...... I do sound rich, don't I?

And I make... About $25,000 a year.

And guess what? This is almost 100% more than I made last year. (Which is about 50% more than I have ever made in a year.)

So, I guess it is all my fault then?

More victim mentality.

Nope. Just trying to open the eyes of the priviledged of this board who think that all bad fortune is the fault of the "victim." Trying to prove that just about anyone who is "suffering on the bottom" did not necessarily bring it upon themselves.

So when I get my paycheck, and I have 20% taken out just in Federal Taxes alone I shouldn't get upset?

Well, like I said, that's too much. Claim a deduction or 2, and you'll get more per paycheck, and a smaller refund. But no, I don't think you have the right to be upset about anything but your own decisions in life.

My brother dropped out of college and got a job with a small company that sets up inflatable rides and attractions at parties and festivals. He works the events and is their webmaster with the very limited HTML knowledge that he has. http://www.ppimfg.com He made $30,000 last year. He used to think that was good for someone without a 4 year degree, but just got reaccepted to ASU to finish his degree, because he knows he doesn't want to make $30,000 the rest of his life.

Um, I do claim a deduction or two. 3 I think was what I put in for this job. Quit thinking you know what I have done in my life, and trying to prove where I have screwed up. Contrary to what you think you know, I am not looking for sympathy, or for someone to fix my problems. So why don't you come down of that high horse for a while.

And as for your brother, I hope he does well. Really. But do not be surprised when he gets that degree, and all it really does is decorate his wall.

As I have said, education <> money anymore. Those who keep spoonfeeding that mentality are the ones propogating the problems.

 

[DOSfan]

Originally posted by: ShantiEDIT: And maybe if you would become a fan of something a little more current than DOS, you'd have better luck getting a better paying job.

Hahahahaha..... Think that one up all by yourself? Or did your education come up with it for you?

Why don't you try living in the real world for a change. Take off those rose collored glasses and get a small sample of what the majority of the country live in.

After you do that, then just maybe you will understand why we are the angry mob forming outside your house getting ready to take what we need.

I don't expect you to care about me, or my situation.

But at least take of the hazardous material suit when you are shoveling sh!t our way.

At least smell it before you fling it.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: DOSfan
And as for your brother, I hope he does well. Really. But do not be surprised when he gets that degree, and all it really does is decorate his wall.

As I have said, education <> money anymore. Those who keep spoonfeeding that mentality are the ones propogating the problems.

Well, keep believing that, so you don't have to second-guess your decision to forego a Bachelor's degree.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: DOSfan

Originally posted by: ShantiEDIT: And maybe if you would become a fan of something a little more current than DOS, you'd have better luck getting a better paying job.

Hahahahaha..... Think that one up all by yourself? Or did your education come up with it for you?

Why don't you try living in the real world for a change. Take off those rose collored glasses and get a small sample of what the majority of the country live in.

After you do that, then just maybe you will understand why we are the angry mob forming outside your house getting ready to take what we need.

I don't expect you to care about me, or my situation.

But at least take of the hazardous material suit when you are shoveling sh!t our way.

At least smell it before you fling it.

Well, my education isn't good enough to figure out wtf that was about.

You think you shouldn't have to pay taxes.
Obviously someone has to pay for the government, but I guess as long as it's not you, it's ok.
Unless you truly believe that you would enjoy living in a country with NO government at all.
And if you believe that, you are beyond reasoning with.

Why would you think I don't live in the real world?
My family is not rich, I'm not rich.
I paid for my own education with student loans and nothing else.
Nobody helped me.
I paid for my own education, worked hard, and got a good job.
Something anyone is capable of as long as they are willing to put in the work.

I don't expect you to support me and I don't know why you think other's should support you.

Exactly what is it you are forming an angry mob about?
You think you are somehow entitled to a good paying job and no taxes?
You think it's unfair that other people's success makes it possible for you to contribute far less than your share?
Sorry, I just don't understand what you are so pissed about.
You've got it pretty damn good.

 

[JBT]

Who cares hes not going to be elected anyways.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: JBT
Who cares hes not going to be elected anyways.

Dean's tax plan was on CNN..,guess I need to have 4 kids and have them reduce my salary to 50k then I won't have to pay a dime.

link

I'll be glad when someone other than the bunch of vote-whores we have running actually toss their ring in the hat.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: slag
it sucks for those wealthy people who have worked hard for their money, but it helps redistribute wealth and will aid in recreating the middle income class. As it is, we are spiraling towards a lower income class and an upper income class, with middle income generally dropping to lower income.

tax breaks for those who are having a hard time making ends meet seems to make sense to me.

Tell me this. Why is unemployment taxed? Obviously you need all the money you can get since you are unemployed so why can the govt tax this money? Hey, you are out of a job, lets tax you!!!

They work hard for their money, but no harder than poorer people. They can afford the higher tax.

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: slag
it sucks for those wealthy people who have worked hard for their money, but it helps redistribute wealth and will aid in recreating the middle income class. As it is, we are spiraling towards a lower income class and an upper income class, with middle income generally dropping to lower income.

tax breaks for those who are having a hard time making ends meet seems to make sense to me.

Tell me this. Why is unemployment taxed? Obviously you need all the money you can get since you are unemployed so why can the govt tax this money? Hey, you are out of a job, lets tax you!!!

They work hard for their money, but no harder than poorer people. They can afford the higher tax.

And all families with less than 5 children are exempt from the draft, but families with 5 children or more should be required to send 1 to the front lines of war. They can afford to lose a child.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: slag
it sucks for those wealthy people who have worked hard for their money, but it helps redistribute wealth and will aid in recreating the middle income class. As it is, we are spiraling towards a lower income class and an upper income class, with middle income generally dropping to lower income.

tax breaks for those who are having a hard time making ends meet seems to make sense to me.

Tell me this. Why is unemployment taxed? Obviously you need all the money you can get since you are unemployed so why can the govt tax this money? Hey, you are out of a job, lets tax you!!!

They work hard for their money, but no harder than poorer people. They can afford the higher tax.

Yeah, cause it takes just as much hard work and dedication to pump gas or cook hamburgers as it does to be a doctor or a lawyer.

If it's so easy to be rich, why isn't everyone?

And it's not about whether or not you can afford it.
It's about whether or not you should be obligated to pay someone else's share so they don't have to.

I'm sure you could afford to let some homeless people live in your house.
So why aren't you?

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: slag
it sucks for those wealthy people who have worked hard for their money, but it helps redistribute wealth and will aid in recreating the middle income class. As it is, we are spiraling towards a lower income class and an upper income class, with middle income generally dropping to lower income.

tax breaks for those who are having a hard time making ends meet seems to make sense to me.

Tell me this. Why is unemployment taxed? Obviously you need all the money you can get since you are unemployed so why can the govt tax this money? Hey, you are out of a job, lets tax you!!!

They work hard for their money, but no harder than poorer people. They can afford the higher tax.

Yeah, cause it takes just as much hard work and dedication to pump gas or cook hamburgers as it does to be a doctor or a lawyer.

If it's so easy to be rich, why isn't everyone?

It's not easy to be rich... That doesn't mean it takes more work to be rich than poor. Try telling the poor person who works two jobs to make ends meet that he's lazier than Donald Trump. How can you possibly say that medical school is harder than laying bricks? It takes more intelligence, but if you have more intelligence, it's not harder now is it?

And it's not about whether or not you can afford it.
It's about whether or not you should be obligated to pay someone else's share so they don't have to.
It is about whether you can afford it. The same percentage means more to a poor person who has less disposable income than a rich person. Are you opposed to the progressive tax we have now?

I'm sure you could afford to let some homeless people live in your house.
So why aren't you?
I don't see the connection between a poor worker and a homeless person.

The idea that rich people are rich because they all work harder than poor people is astounding. Wealth breeds wealth. Poverty breeds poverty. Of course, you can base policy on a few exceptions, but that would be stupid.

 

[vi edit]

The idea that rich people are rich because they all work harder than poor people is astounding. Wealth breeds wealth.

That just revolves around what people consider "rich". That, and physical labor can't be compared to impact of responsibility and job related stress.

As responsibility goes up - so does pay in general. And I can assure you that a doctor has much more responsibility and job related stress than some guy working a cash register for $5.25 an hour.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

The idea that rich people are rich because they all work harder than poor people is astounding. Wealth breeds wealth.

That just revolves around what people consider "rich". That, and physical labor can't be compared to impact of responsibility and job related stress.

As responsibility goes up - so does pay in general. And I can assure you that a doctor has much more responsibility and job related stress than some guy working a cash register for $5.25 an hour.

And the doctor gets paid substantially more in the end anyway. What's the problem?

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: SweetSweetLeroyBrown
Doesn't scare me...and I pull in more than 100K year

Do you have kids yet? Once you have kids you'll see how hard it is even with "more than 100k" in income. There's no reason why you should be cheated of your hard earned money. I do believe in a safety net and I believe in the need for welfare, but seriously everyone needs to pull some weight at least.



BTW: Investing in 4 companies is not diversification. You have to mix it up with different industries at the very least.

 

[Ornery]

I'm sure you could afford to let some homeless people live in your house.
So why aren't you?

I don't see the connection between a poor worker and a homeless person.

Sort of dodged the question there, sport. You have more space to live in than you need. Why not let some others "not as fortunate" move in with you? Where's the problem?

I just LOVE the Democrat's Robin Hood attitude. You have more than you need, so we'll just siphon a little more off. It's not like you actually earned it or anything.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteve

Originally posted by: Vic
Rush - "The Trees"

There is unrest in the forest,
There is trouble with the trees,
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas.

The trouble with the maples,
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light.
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made.
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade.

There is trouble in the forest,
And the creatures all have fled,
As the maples scream "Oppression!"
And the oaks just shake their heads.

So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights.
"The oaks are just too greedy;
We will make them give us light."
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.

That's what many seem to want. Easier to drag someone down to your level than put forth the effort to work your way up to theirs. A lot of people in this thread ought to go rent Harrison Bergeron. "All men are not created equal. It is the purpose of the Government to make them so."

No one has suggested dragging the rich down. Many have suggested that the rich are or will be dragged down though. Poppycock!

Actually, if you read the thread, that is exactly what some are suggesting.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: slag
it sucks for those wealthy people who have worked hard for their money, but it helps redistribute wealth and will aid in recreating the middle income class. As it is, we are spiraling towards a lower income class and an upper income class, with middle income generally dropping to lower income.

tax breaks for those who are having a hard time making ends meet seems to make sense to me.

Tell me this. Why is unemployment taxed? Obviously you need all the money you can get since you are unemployed so why can the govt tax this money? Hey, you are out of a job, lets tax you!!!

They work hard for their money, but no harder than poorer people. They can afford the higher tax.

Yeah, cause it takes just as much hard work and dedication to pump gas or cook hamburgers as it does to be a doctor or a lawyer.

If it's so easy to be rich, why isn't everyone?

It's not easy to be rich... That doesn't mean it takes more work to be rich than poor. Try telling the poor person who works two jobs to make ends meet that he's lazier than Donald Trump. How can you possibly say that medical school is harder than laying bricks? It takes more intelligence, but if you have more intelligence, it's not harder now is it?

And it's not about whether or not you can afford it.
It's about whether or not you should be obligated to pay someone else's share so they don't have to.
It is about whether you can afford it. The same percentage means more to a poor person who has less disposable income than a rich person. Are you opposed to the progressive tax we have now?

I'm sure you could afford to let some homeless people live in your house.
So why aren't you?
I don't see the connection between a poor worker and a homeless person.

The idea that rich people are rich because they all work harder than poor people is astounding. Wealth breeds wealth. Poverty breeds poverty. Of course, you can base policy on a few exceptions, but that would be stupid.

I'm not talking about physical exertion. Of course it's more physically exerting to work two jobs.
I'm talking about the dedication and motivation it takes to stay focused on getting an education and gaining the skills you need to be successful. I've had plenty of minimum wage jobs. The one thing they all had in common is that they required no particular skills. Yeah, some of them sucked, but they were all easy. Nobody has to be working min. wage jobs if they are willing to put in the time and effort it takes to learn a valued skill. I'm not a doctor, but I would really hesitate to make an assumption that medical school is easy for intelligent people. From what I've heard, that's not the case at all.

And I don't come from wealth at all. As I said, I paid for my own education with college loans. I don't consider myself rich at 50k a year, but a lot of people do consider that rich.

I still don't see why the issue of whether or not someone can afford something has anything to do with what they should be obligated to pay.
Of course I'm against the current progressive rate system. It's completely unfair. Those who make more money not only pay more, but they pay a higher percentage of their money. I don't care if they can afford it or not. Why should they be required to pay more than their fair share?
That is why in reality, even a flat tax is not fair to the high earners because they still end up having to pay more than their fair share. But obviously a flat dollar amount for everyone wouldn't be practical, so a flat tax is the best compromise.

The comparison with homeless people was to make a point that just because you can afford to provide something for someone else doesn't mean you are obligated to do that. If you think wealthier people should pay more than their share of what it takes to run the government just because they can afford it, then why aren't you letting homeless people live with you since you "can afford it".

The whole notion that everyone should contribute based NOT upon what they use, but upon what they can afford to contribute is communism at it's essence. The problem with that is that the more you punish people for success and reward them for failure, the less productive your society becomes until sooner or later, the only way to get anybody to do anything is to force them. That is not the kind of country I want to live in.

Luckily we are not at that point yet. Although the current system of taxing higher earners at a higher percentage rate is certainly unfair and anti-productive, it is not yet to the point where everyone ends up with the same amount of money regardless of their earnings. But moving in that direction is certainly not a good idea. Yet that seems like exactly what many of the liberals around here would like to see.

Hell, why not just throw everyone's money in a pot, then divide it equally between everyone. I'm sure some of you would love to see that system.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: slag
it sucks for those wealthy people who have worked hard for their money, but it helps redistribute wealth and will aid in recreating the middle income class. As it is, we are spiraling towards a lower income class and an upper income class, with middle income generally dropping to lower income.

tax breaks for those who are having a hard time making ends meet seems to make sense to me.

Tell me this. Why is unemployment taxed? Obviously you need all the money you can get since you are unemployed so why can the govt tax this money? Hey, you are out of a job, lets tax you!!!

They work hard for their money, but no harder than poorer people. They can afford the higher tax.

Yeah, cause it takes just as much hard work and dedication to pump gas or cook hamburgers as it does to be a doctor or a lawyer.

If it's so easy to be rich, why isn't everyone?

It's not easy to be rich... That doesn't mean it takes more work to be rich than poor. Try telling the poor person who works two jobs to make ends meet that he's lazier than Donald Trump. How can you possibly say that medical school is harder than laying bricks? It takes more intelligence, but if you have more intelligence, it's not harder now is it?

And it's not about whether or not you can afford it.
It's about whether or not you should be obligated to pay someone else's share so they don't have to.
It is about whether you can afford it. The same percentage means more to a poor person who has less disposable income than a rich person. Are you opposed to the progressive tax we have now?

I'm sure you could afford to let some homeless people live in your house.
So why aren't you?
I don't see the connection between a poor worker and a homeless person.

The idea that rich people are rich because they all work harder than poor people is astounding. Wealth breeds wealth. Poverty breeds poverty. Of course, you can base policy on a few exceptions, but that would be stupid.

I'm not talking about physical exertion. Of course it's more physically exerting to work two jobs.
I'm talking about the dedication and motivation it takes to stay focused on getting an education and gaining the skills you need to be successful. I've had plenty of minimum wage jobs. The one thing they all had in common is that they required no particular skills. Yeah, some of them sucked, but they were all easy. Nobody has to be working min. wage jobs if they are willing to put in the time and effort it takes to learn a valued skill. I'm not a doctor, but I would really hesitate to make an assumption that medical school is easy for intelligent people. From what I've heard, that's not the case at all.

And I don't come from wealth at all. As I said, I paid for my own education with college loans. I don't consider myself rich at 50k a year, but a lot of people do consider that rich.

I still don't see why the issue of whether or not someone can afford something has anything to do with what they should be obligated to pay.
Of course I'm against the current progressive rate system. It's completely unfair. Those who make more money not only pay more, but they pay a higher percentage of their money. I don't care if they can afford it or not. Why should they be required to pay more than their fair share?
That is why in reality, even a flat tax is not fair to the high earners because they still end up having to pay more than their fair share. But obviously a flat dollar amount for everyone wouldn't be practical, so a flat tax is the best compromise.

The comparison with homeless people was to make a point that just because you can afford to provide something for someone else doesn't mean you are obligated to do that. If you think wealthier people should pay more than their share of what it takes to run the government just because they can afford it, then why aren't you letting homeless people live with you since you "can afford it".

The whole notion that everyone should contribute based NOT upon what they use, but upon what they can afford to contribute is communism at it's essence. The problem with that is that the more you punish people for success and reward them for failure, the less productive your society becomes until sooner or later, the only way to get anybody to do anything is to force them. That is not the kind of country I want to live in.

Luckily we are not at that point yet. Although the current system of taxing higher earners at a higher percentage rate is certainly unfair and anti-productive, it is not yet to the point where everyone ends up with the same amount of money regardless of their earnings. But moving in that direction is certainly not a good idea. Yet that seems like exactly what many of the liberals around here would like to see.

Hell, why not just throw everyone's money in a pot, then divide it equally between everyone. I'm sure some of you would love to see that system.

What can be afforded should matter, because the less tax the rich pay, the more tax the poor pay. Our society needs these poor people as much as it needs rich people, and middle class people. Why should they have to pay more than they can afford when rich folks can easily afford to pay more?

You hate socialism ("communism") so much.. would you prefer that we have a purely capitalist society? That certainly didn't help when we had the depression did it? Time has taught us that a mix of capitalist and socialist values is optimal.

Progressive taxing is economically sound, not just socially sound. What do you suppose would happen to the economy if rich folks had a little more disposable income and poor people had almost none?

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
What can be afforded should matter, because the less tax the rich pay, the more tax the poor pay. Our society needs these poor people as much as it needs rich people, and middle class people. Why should they have to pay more than they can afford when rich folks can easily afford to pay more?

You hate socialism ("communism") so much.. would you prefer that we have a purely capitalist society? That certainly didn't help when we had the depression did it? Time has taught us that a mix of capitalist and socialist values is optimal.

Progressive taxing is economically sound, not just socially sound. What do you suppose would happen to the economy if rich folks had a little more disposable income and poor people had almost none?

I'm not suggesting we tax poor people at 100%. So in that respect, yes, what can be afforded matters.

We are not going to agree here because you fundamentally believe that people should have to pay based on what they can afford and I disagree. I believe that ideally everyone should be paying their own fair share to fund our government. But as I said, that obviously won't work because the majority of people couldn't afford to pay enough.

So it is inevitable that the wealthier people are going to be footing a disproportionately larger portion of the bill.
This is the case even with a flat tax rate.

No, I don't want a 100% purely capitalist society. I don't want anyone to starve to death in the streets and I don't want anyone to die because they can't afford medical treatment. We both agree that the best system is one that includes both capitalistic and socialistic aspects. It is simply a matter of which one we should move closer to that we disagree on.

And in reality, a flat tax is still a progressive system. You pay more if you make more. If I make 500k a year and you make 50k a year, I am still going to be paying 10 times more than you to fund our government. I see that as very progressive and the best compromise between what is truly fair(we both pay the same amount) and what is practical.

 

[DOSfan]

Originally posted by: Rob9874

Originally posted by: DOSfan
And as for your brother, I hope he does well. Really. But do not be surprised when he gets that degree, and all it really does is decorate his wall.

As I have said, education <> money anymore. Those who keep spoonfeeding that mentality are the ones propogating the problems.

Well, keep believing that, so you don't have to second-guess your decision to forego a Bachelor's degree.

I do not second guess my decisions. It is a waste of time.

And I do not have to believe that education <> money.

I have seen it.

Do you have any idea how many people who have better educations than me are not doing any better?

I can name five of the top of my head.

 

[DOSfan]

Originally posted by: Shanti


You think you shouldn't have to pay taxes.

Wrong. I said I do not want to pay taxes. I said I do not like paying taxes. I even said it pisses me off to pay taxes.

I never, ever, evar said I shouldn't pay taxes.

Do try and keep that straight.

Obviously someone has to pay for the government, but I guess as long as it's not you, it's ok.
Unless you truly believe that you would enjoy living in a country with NO government at all.
And if you believe that, you are beyond reasoning with.

Yes, it would be okay if I did not have to pay for the government. If you have to get a car fixed 3 times in a row for the same thing, you get your money back. How many times has the government tried to get taxes right?

And yes, I think I would enjoy living in a country without a government. I understand, and freeely admit that I might not live very long... But at least I would be in complete control of my money, and my life. Sounds like the best way to live if you ask me, even if it is for a short while.

Why would you think I don't live in the real world?
My family is not rich, I'm not rich.
I paid for my own education with student loans and nothing else.
Nobody helped me.
I paid for my own education, worked hard, and got a good job.
Something anyone is capable of as long as they are willing to put in the work.

I never made any statements about your wealth, or family background. I did not even bring up your education until after you made cracks about me not having the math skills to handle my own taxes.

I feel you do not live in the real world, because you seem (I am making an assumption here) to have the feeling that because someone is pissed about what they have to pay, they must not be able to think. Or that they do think - think they deserve to be given something.

The tax system does need to change. Despite whatever conclusions you have jumped too, I do not know what is the best way to fix it. I can still see it is broken as it is.

I don't expect you to support me and I don't know why you think other's should support you.

When did I ever say I expect someone to support me?

I did say I do not care if the nations taxes were payed by everyone but me, but that says nothing about me expecting everyone to support me. Not caring <> expecting.

Exactly what is it you are forming an angry mob about?
You think you are somehow entitled to a good paying job and no taxes?
You think it's unfair that other people's success makes it possible for you to contribute far less than your share?
Sorry, I just don't understand what you are so pissed about.
You've got it pretty damn good.

I am not necessarily forming the angry mob.

I meant we as in the 60% of americans making less than 30K a year. (I do not trust statistics myself, so I do not claim this one to be 100% accurate.) 1/3 of those that are making less than 10K a year. (Again, I do not claim this is 100% accurate. But these are based off of a published article.)

The ones who people think do not deserve a little bit of leniency to try and survive. The ones people feel are not educated. The ones people feel are stupid.

The ones people feel should be happy that they are even paying taxes.

And again, I never said anything about what I am entitled to.

Nor have I ever claimed anything is fair, or unfair. (Except life, see sig.)

And what I am pissed about is the claims that I am a stupid, uneducated, simplistic, moronic, unable to add, uninformed mother fvcker simply because I exemplified what it is like to be at the bottom of the wealth ladder. Oh, and I forgot unemployed.

If you take the time to reread my entrance to this thread, it was formed in responce to those who claim we (the lower rungs of the ladder) are not educated. And that we feel we are victims, and that we feel we should be given more than we deserve. That we all want society to pity us.

And as far as how good I have it...

Have I said otherwise? Never claimed to be bad off.

Just pissed about the money being taken from me.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: DOSfan

Originally posted by: Shanti


You think you shouldn't have to pay taxes.

Wrong. I said I do not want to pay taxes. I said I do not like paying taxes. I even said it pisses me off to pay taxes.

I never, ever, evar said I shouldn't pay taxes.

Do try and keep that straight.

Obviously someone has to pay for the government, but I guess as long as it's not you, it's ok.
Unless you truly believe that you would enjoy living in a country with NO government at all.
And if you believe that, you are beyond reasoning with.

Yes, it would be okay if I did not have to pay for the government. If you have to get a car fixed 3 times in a row for the same thing, you get your money back. How many times has the government tried to get taxes right?

And yes, I think I would enjoy living in a country without a government. I understand, and freeely admit that I might not live very long... But at least I would be in complete control of my money, and my life. Sounds like the best way to live if you ask me, even if it is for a short while.

Why would you think I don't live in the real world?
My family is not rich, I'm not rich.
I paid for my own education with student loans and nothing else.
Nobody helped me.
I paid for my own education, worked hard, and got a good job.
Something anyone is capable of as long as they are willing to put in the work.

I never made any statements about your wealth, or family background. I did not even bring up your education until after you made cracks about me not having the math skills to handle my own taxes.

I feel you do not live in the real world, because you seem (I am making an assumption here) to have the feeling that because someone is pissed about what they have to pay, they must not be able to think. Or that they do think - think they deserve to be given something.

The tax system does need to change. Despite whatever conclusions you have jumped too, I do not know what is the best way to fix it. I can still see it is broken as it is.

I don't expect you to support me and I don't know why you think other's should support you.

When did I ever say I expect someone to support me?

I did say I do not care if the nations taxes were payed by everyone but me, but that says nothing about me expecting everyone to support me. Not caring <> expecting.

Exactly what is it you are forming an angry mob about?
You think you are somehow entitled to a good paying job and no taxes?
You think it's unfair that other people's success makes it possible for you to contribute far less than your share?
Sorry, I just don't understand what you are so pissed about.
You've got it pretty damn good.

I am not necessarily forming the angry mob.

I meant we as in the 60% of americans making less than 30K a year. (I do not trust statistics myself, so I do not claim this one to be 100% accurate.) 1/3 of those that are making less than 10K a year. (Again, I do not claim this is 100% accurate. But these are based off of a published article.)

The ones who people think do not deserve a little bit of leniency to try and survive. The ones people feel are not educated. The ones people feel are stupid.

The ones people feel should be happy that they are even paying taxes.

And again, I never said anything about what I am entitled to.

Nor have I ever claimed anything is fair, or unfair. (Except life, see sig.)

And what I am pissed about is the claims that I am a stupid, uneducated, simplistic, moronic, unable to add, uninformed mother fvcker simply because I exemplified what it is like to be at the bottom of the wealth ladder. Oh, and I forgot unemployed.

If you take the time to reread my entrance to this thread, it was formed in responce to those who claim we (the lower rungs of the ladder) are not educated. And that we feel we are victims, and that we feel we should be given more than we deserve. That we all want society to pity us.

And as far as how good I have it...

Have I said otherwise? Never claimed to be bad off.

Just pissed about the money being taken from me.

I aplogize if I insulted you. That was not my intention.
The joke about math skills was because I still do not see how you can be paying 5k a year in taxes when all the tax tables say you should be paying about half that. I thought you were making stuff up or exaggerating.

I don't think everyone who makes less money than me is stupid or uneducated. But I do think that there is always opportunity in this country to be more successful and make more money. Whether or not you choose to take advantage of that opportunity is your decision. I do not look down on people that have less money. I just don't think it's fair for them to expect those who make more to pay their share of government costs for them.

Apparently I misinterpreted. When you ranted about how pissed you were about paying taxes, then went on to say the system was broken, I assumed that meant that you thought you should pay less. In that case, I disagreed with you because you already pay far less than those who make more money.

You say you don't want anyone to support you, but if you believe you should have to pay less tax while the rich pay even more, than basically you are asking for the rich to support you by paying your share. In fact, the rich already support the poor. Not directly in the case of poor people who make enough money to survive without government assistance. But even these people are indirectly supported by the rich because of the much higher tax burden.

What I got from your comments was not just that you were pissed, but that you thought it was unfair that you have to pay the amount of taxes you do. That is what I took issue with. If what you actually meant was that you were pissed but still thought it was fair, then I don't really understand why you would be pissed and talking about an angry mob.

 

[thetruth21]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I can't trust myself with my own money, so I welcome the government to manage it for me. I am just too wealthy, and my wealth makes me feel guilty.


Such is the thinking of 99.9% of the people living in MA.

Count me in the other .1% then. I seriously doubt there are many people who feel guilty and think the government would be more adept at handling their money. I hate the democrats as much as anyone but i don't see where you're coming from with that. Their mentality is more like "oh lets just give everything to everyone and everyone will be happy and as long as everyone is equal our rights don't matter" Life does not work like that.