I wonder what the difference is for retention rate as far as active duty vs reserves when comparing officers and enlisted. It would be interesting, as officers do eventually do quite well, while enlisted not so much. Then again, there's the difference in what it takes to become an officer rather than an enlisted (the qualifications are actually kind of high).
Do you deny that this is the dominant news story at the perfect time and will cripple the democrats?
John Kerry...the gift the keeps on giving.
I don't think its going to help at all, especially once it becomes fully apparent how farfetched the accusation by Bush is once the full video becomes more distributed. IT IS going to shift the focus back to Iraq, and its not like Kerry is running this year anyways.
The Republicans are still going to get crushed in epic fashion in the House and almost certainly lose the Senate.
If you think this story is going to change the election, then get on it and ride it hard!! That's your perogative.
I think anybody with any sense knows what Kerry meant and knows it was directly meant as critizism of the NeoCons currently in power and particuarly Bush/Cheney.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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The full video is enough for me to give credence to the possibility that he meant to insult Bush rather than the troops. But it's certainly not obvious enough to be conclusive. So there you go. I'll say it: I think that he might have been talking about Bush, or the Troops, or who knows.
Nobody can watch that video and decipher the context difinitively. It was an awkward part of the speech. It could have been the second "one-liner" in his intro, aimed at Bush; or, it could have been the beginning of his serious discussion regarding education wherein he wanted to show the audience the consequences of doing badly in school; thus insulting te troops...
it's just not clear enough to tell.
Bottom line: I'm still glad that he stepped on his own junk. I don't care what he meant anymore. It's just exciting to watch the media go nuts and make fools of everyone! isn't politics fun!? It will be interesting to see what effect, if any, this whole thing has on next week's voting. After all, it didnt change my votes...
Nobody can watch that video and decipher the context difinitively. It was an awkward part of the speech. It could have been the second "one-liner" in his intro, aimed at Bush; or, it could have been the beginning of his serious discussion regarding education wherein he wanted to show the audience the consequences of doing badly in school; thus insulting te troops...
it's just not clear enough to tell.
Bottom line: I'm still glad that he stepped on his own junk. I don't care what he meant anymore. It's just exciting to watch the media go nuts and make fools of everyone! isn't politics fun!? It will be interesting to see what effect, if any, this whole thing has on next week's voting. After all, it didnt change my votes...
And if you were to see the whole speach, I bet you would be in a perfect position to interpret it.
I was thinking about what Kerry could have said in place of what he actually said. I hope I am the first to say it! 
"Education if you make the most of it, if you study hard, you do your homework, you make an effort to get smart you can do well, if you don't you get stuck in Iraq"
or:
"Education if you make the most of it, if you study hard, you do your homework, you make an effort to get smart you can do well, if you don't you get sent to Iraq"
Now, is there any difference between the two statements?
"Education if you make the most of it, if you study hard, you do your homework, you make an effort to get smart you can do well, if you don't you get stuck in Iraq"
or:
"Education if you make the most of it, if you study hard, you do your homework, you make an effort to get smart you can do well, if you don't you get sent to Iraq"
Now, is there any difference between the two statements?
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
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ya, the second would have definately been aimed at the troops while the real statement is much more ambiguous. I really can't tell what the heck that moron was trying to say, or who he was trying to insult.Originally posted by: eos
I was thinking about what Kerry could have said in place of what he actually said. I hope I am the first to say it!
"Education if you make the most of it, if you study hard, you do your homework, you make an effort to get smart you can do well, if you don't you get stuck in Iraq"
or:
"Education if you make the most of it, if you study hard, you do your homework, you make an effort to get smart you can do well, if you don't you get sent to Iraq"
Now, is there any difference between the two statements?
One of the other problems with Kerry's attack which equates poor performance in school to Bush is that Bush actually got better grades than Kerry himself; so it doesnt make much sense given the fact that alot of people know that. After all, Kerry's performance in school was worse than Bush's performance, so how is that joke funny or accurate? Does it mean that Kerry's poor performance could have gotten "us stuck" in worse places?!
that is why I tend to lean toward the comment meaning exactly what it says, but I'm willing to state that it's possible that Kerry did botch a joke aimed at Bush instead...
who knows... who cares?! it's still funt to watch unfold!
Tell me Palehorse, were you equally as "outraged" when Bush joked "No WMD under here. Nope, not here either."
Just curious.
Now that you've seen the full statement, in context, you're STILL wondering whether or not Kerry meant that as a joke toward the troops?
You still don't believe that it was simply a botched joke.
Granted, I will say this.... Senator Kerry, don't joke. You're not good at it. Your message is right on without the jokes.
Just curious.
Now that you've seen the full statement, in context, you're STILL wondering whether or not Kerry meant that as a joke toward the troops?
You still don't believe that it was simply a botched joke.
Granted, I will say this.... Senator Kerry, don't joke. You're not good at it. Your message is right on without the jokes.
theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
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I'm doubting it will change any democrat voters, but it can swing some of those who were undecided or abstaining from voting to go vote republican. Alot of people may not like the war, but they love the troops and will take Kerry's words at face value regardless of what he says he meant.
George Stephanopoulos said this morning that Kerry "benched himself", which basically is in line with what you said about the dems locking him in a closet. Because of this snafu, he already got uninvited from one campaign speaking engagement and canceled another.
The tipping point was his ludicrous "I won't apologize" rant. The media was all over that and will be asking every republican running for a seat in the universe what they think of Kerry's comments.
All Kerry had to do was sincerely apologize for the misunderstanding, and the liberal media would've covered it up instantly. It was his own fault this thing got out of hand, and the democrats will pay a price - perhaps small, but still noticeable - for his string of mistakes on this matter.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
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lol, isnt it funny how quickly people change their minds? Just a few months ago, while McCain was loudly opposing the Detainee Act, most moderates put him on a pedastool.. and now this simple condemnation of Kerry is enough for them to write him off?Originally posted by: senseamp
Originally posted by: TravisT
I think Kerry showed his true colors.
So did McCain. He aint going to win moderates in 2008.
lol.. ya gotta love the finicky populace!
1. Kerry was helping vets and the nation: helping to spread the truth against the lies being pushed by the right, helping to give vets a voice. "They told the stories..."
2. He criticized a *tactic* that was sometimes used. Identifying one tactic as a mistake makes you anti-military? No.
Funny, his comment showed concern about our alienating the Iraqi people - something that could harm our security, creating enemies.
Something that it seems is a bit of a problem for us now, eh? His leadership would address the problem; the current leadership gives us empty platitudes.
3. You are *dishonest* if you continue to repeat the false attack at this point that Kerry's comments were directed at the troops, and not the president.
There is overwhelming evidence, regardless of Palehorse's predictable obtuseness, that Kerry was directing his comments at the president and not the troops.
Although if he *did* make a comment against volunteering now with the current leadership, I think that'd be more pro-troop than anti-military.
My own Congressman, for example, a veteran, told a high school student he hoped he was not thinking of joining the military now. That's anti-Bush, not anti-military.
But, that's an opinion - and irrelevant to the fact that Kerry was insulting the president in a joke.
So, you have 0 for 3 in proving your claim that Kerry is 'anti-military'.
Was Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander in WWII, "anti-military" for saying that military spending robbed the nation and was no way to live on a 'cross of Iron'?
No, you are being an ideologue - determined to 'win' a point by attacking Kerry, you are saying anything, however false and absurd such as that he's 'anti-military'.
The saddest thing in this thread is the completely predictable reaction.
Folks, if you are too far to the right or the left that you've lost the ability to look at something objectively, then you may as well stop talking, posting, and reading about politics, because your mind is made up for you.
Two things here - if you watch the entire speech, Kerry was CLEARLY referring to this administration. Could it have been worded better? Certainly. Was he trying to insult the troops? Certainly not.
Since many of you jumped right on board with the 'he was talking about the education levels of our military personel' tangent, please save your "I'm in the military and I have 11 degrees, so Kerry is full of crap" comments.
Are there people in the military with college and more advanced degrees? Yes, of course their are. Are there outstanding students at our military academies? Yes, very much so, similar in acceptance policies to many of our finer universities. That said, anyone who can't see the recruiting centers, and where they are located, and draw any conclusions from that needs to open their eyes. Military recruiting targets poorer areas, period. It's not a question of intelligence, it's a question of class, and by class I mean upper/middle/lower income levels. This is fact, it can't be disputed. As such, people recruited from these areas, statistically speaking, end up as less-educated people than those that come out of higher income classes.
Do yourself a favor and watch Kerry's entire discussion, reading that one quote doesn't put the statement in it's proper context.
Also, hat's off to Kerry's new writers, his response has more teeth than just about anything they produced during the Swift boat flotilla of garbage.
Folks, if you are too far to the right or the left that you've lost the ability to look at something objectively, then you may as well stop talking, posting, and reading about politics, because your mind is made up for you.
Two things here - if you watch the entire speech, Kerry was CLEARLY referring to this administration. Could it have been worded better? Certainly. Was he trying to insult the troops? Certainly not.
Since many of you jumped right on board with the 'he was talking about the education levels of our military personel' tangent, please save your "I'm in the military and I have 11 degrees, so Kerry is full of crap" comments.
Are there people in the military with college and more advanced degrees? Yes, of course their are. Are there outstanding students at our military academies? Yes, very much so, similar in acceptance policies to many of our finer universities. That said, anyone who can't see the recruiting centers, and where they are located, and draw any conclusions from that needs to open their eyes. Military recruiting targets poorer areas, period. It's not a question of intelligence, it's a question of class, and by class I mean upper/middle/lower income levels. This is fact, it can't be disputed. As such, people recruited from these areas, statistically speaking, end up as less-educated people than those that come out of higher income classes.
Do yourself a favor and watch Kerry's entire discussion, reading that one quote doesn't put the statement in it's proper context.
Also, hat's off to Kerry's new writers, his response has more teeth than just about anything they produced during the Swift boat flotilla of garbage.
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