Do you think the Big 3 Automakers are going to fold?

NuAlphaMan

Senior member
Aug 30, 2006
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After reading this article, I wonder how much longer GM, Ford and Chrysler will be viable companies.

I just don't know why it is so hard for them to see that their products aren't moving like they used to! Why not emulate what Toyota and Honda are doing?

The way they are bleeding now, I'll be surprised if we don't see one of them fall within the next 5 - 10 years. What do you think?
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,714
164
106
I buy their products from time to time. I'm not one of those people who buy them just to buy American...but if they put out a product that is at least as competent or nearly as competent as the foreign product...I generally lean toward the Big 3 product.

Examples of products I would have no problem buying:
- Corvette
- GM Large SUV's
- GM Full Size Pickup Trucks
- Ford F150
- Saturn Aura
- Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky
- Ford Fusion
- Dodge Viper

I'm eagerly awaiting the reviews on the Pontiac G8. It is very likely that if it lives up to the hype, that will be my next car purchase.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,414
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what do you think alan mulally is trying to do?

it's hard when you have a giant millstone around your neck that honda and toyota do not have, however.


there is a very good chance that my next car is a ford.
 

Chadder007

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
7,560
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Ford has good cars......just too bad they are ALL in Europe. (ie. Mondeo and the Euro version of the Focus)
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,924
45
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I don't own an American card, but I don't think the American car companies are going to fold. I think they're improving, and now they need to work on people's perceptions. They could build the greatest car in the world, and there would still be people hating on it just because it's American.

I drive a Honda, but there's a good possibility that my next car will be American.
 

imported_Goo

Member
Oct 4, 2005
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No, I dont' think they will fold, and yes I own their product.

And to OP, big three's product are getting better the last few years. And I don't want them to emulate what Toyota is doing, Toyota made very boring car and I don't want that.
 

desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,433
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I just bought a jap import, almost bought a Chev
Will they go bankrupt? maybe, but when you still sell millions of vehicles a yr there is a market and a solid dealership structure.
Its the legacy costs that kill NA plants with 2.5 workers on pension and benefits for every 1 working. Awfully hard to work around that, chapter 11 would allow them to renegotiate those rich pension deals and potentially come out stronger.
Nissan almost folded in the late 90's and have come on strong so it is possible.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
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No and no.

And there is no "Big 3." Chrysler is a German automaker that happens to have a lot of North American plants. Just ask anyone who works for DCX.
 
May 31, 2001
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If the federal government started pouring money into AmTrak (SP?) to keep it afloat, I think they would do at least that much with the auto industry.
 

Lounatik

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
1,845
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I dont think you will see them fold,rather they will merge with an existing company. There was a rumor floating around a few months ago that Nissan/Renault was talking merger with Ford. If that were to happen, it was also rumored that GM would have merged with Toyota. Now,GM merging with Toyota would not be unrealistic since they do share a design facility, I believe, and have joint ventures already (Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix) .

Peace

Lounatik
 

glutenberg

Golden Member
Sep 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: Goo
No, I dont' think they will fold, and yes I own their product.

And to OP, big three's product are getting better the last few years. And I don't want them to emulate what Toyota is doing, Toyota made very boring car and I don't want that.

What American car has been that exciting to you?
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
I honestly believe that cars from the big 3 are probably as good or nearly as good as a car from any other company as far as quality goes. I would imagine at 2006 Ford Fusion will be just as good of a car as a 2006 Camry, both being good cars. But, I think that their reputation is too tarnished from the 90's. I don't think they'll fold, but I think it'll take a lot of work to get back on their feet.

I only buy used cars, so I'm not helping any of them. I drive a 98 Mercury Sable for my daily driver (138,000 and going strong) and a Mitsu Eclipse Spyder for my toy.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
DCX will have issues, as the company as a whole blows. GM and Ford will eventually be fine though. GM has more or less finagled itself back into the black (it's last loss was basically from payoffs and restructuring). Ford, while they did post a massive loss for the year, also had a huge amount of its loss from restructuring and payoffs. Both companies have quite viable product lines. Hell, they both have some of the best selling vehicles in the world.

I'd have no problem with buying quite a few of their products. My next car might be a Malibu Maxx, if I can find a used one equipped close to the way I want.
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
I'm no economics major, but what happens for the year or so it would take for the industry to catch up? Suddenly 3 million cars are missing from production. My recollection of supply versus demand graphs leads me to think that prices would go up, since there would be less cars available to supply the demand.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
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Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
If the federal government started pouring money into AmTrak (SP?) to keep it afloat, I think they would do at least that much with the auto industry.

Yeah...AmTrak has turned out really well hasn't it?

There was an article I read today about an internal Toyota memo that was leaked that shows Toyota worried about having too much success in the United States. Link

Toyota Motor Corp. is bracing for possible political and consumer backlash caused by its rapid U.S. growth, according to an internal report obtained by the Free Press.

Toyota executives have publicly downplayed the importance of predictions that the Japan-based company will pass General Motors Corp. this year as the world?s largest automaker. But the Toyota report says the company could face criticism because its U.S. sales are increasing while Detroit?s automakers are losing sales and shuttering plants.

?With recent market-share gains and sales continuing to increase, we are becoming the de facto leader of the industry ? that brings risks and responsibilities,? according to a presentation by Seiichi (Sean) Sudo, president of Toyota Engineering & Manufacturing in North America. ?Our competitors are jealous of our success.?

...


The report, left unsecured on computers at the company?s Georgetown, Ky., complex, said Toyota could come under fire for:

? Selling vehicles to U.S. customers with high proportions of foreign-made parts. Less than half of all content of Toyota vehicles sold in the United States is made in the United States or Canada.

? Not including enough minority-owned businesses in its supplier base. The Rev. Jesse Jackson, leader of the Rainbow PUSH activist group, has asked Toyota to improve diversity efforts.

? Leaving a vacuum in U.S. communities as GM, Ford, Chrysler and their suppliers shed plants and workers.

?A Democratic Congress, particularly those members with districts hit by Big 3 and supplier plant closings, may call for further oversight of the industry and Japanese companies in particular,? the presentation said.

Less government is needed to help the US auto industry, not more.

My last two car purchases have been American cars - a new Ford Mustang and a used Dodge Grand Caravan. I'm thinking pick-up truck for when my Nissan Pathfinder dies so my next vehicle will probably be from an American motor company too.
 
May 31, 2001
15,326
1
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Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
If the federal government started pouring money into AmTrak (SP?) to keep it afloat, I think they would do at least that much with the auto industry.

Yeah...AmTrak has turned out really well hasn't it?

There was an article I read today about an internal Toyota memo that was leaked that shows Toyota worried about having too much success in the United States. Link

Toyota Motor Corp. is bracing for possible political and consumer backlash caused by its rapid U.S. growth, according to an internal report obtained by the Free Press.

Toyota executives have publicly downplayed the importance of predictions that the Japan-based company will pass General Motors Corp. this year as the world?s largest automaker. But the Toyota report says the company could face criticism because its U.S. sales are increasing while Detroit?s automakers are losing sales and shuttering plants.

?With recent market-share gains and sales continuing to increase, we are becoming the de facto leader of the industry ? that brings risks and responsibilities,? according to a presentation by Seiichi (Sean) Sudo, president of Toyota Engineering & Manufacturing in North America. ?Our competitors are jealous of our success.?

...


The report, left unsecured on computers at the company?s Georgetown, Ky., complex, said Toyota could come under fire for:

? Selling vehicles to U.S. customers with high proportions of foreign-made parts. Less than half of all content of Toyota vehicles sold in the United States is made in the United States or Canada.

? Not including enough minority-owned businesses in its supplier base. The Rev. Jesse Jackson, leader of the Rainbow PUSH activist group, has asked Toyota to improve diversity efforts.

? Leaving a vacuum in U.S. communities as GM, Ford, Chrysler and their suppliers shed plants and workers.

?A Democratic Congress, particularly those members with districts hit by Big 3 and supplier plant closings, may call for further oversight of the industry and Japanese companies in particular,? the presentation said.

Less government is needed to help the US auto industry, not more.

My last two car purchases have been American cars - a new Ford Mustang and a used Dodge Grand Caravan. I'm thinking pick-up truck for when my Nissan Pathfinder dies so my next vehicle will probably be from an American motor company too.

Nowhere did I say that government involvement was a GOOD thing, just that they would likely start pouring money into it before an imminent collapse. ;)
 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
8,153
619
126
Own a Chrysler, Ford, and GM.

GM is already turned around, look at their new product offering especially through 2009 when they bring back RWD to their mid-size lineup. Cadillac is doing well and Saturn is taking off. Pontiac is reinvigorated with the G6, G8, and perhaps a Firebird/GTO in a few years.

Chrysler is doing fine and after all it is owned by Daimler.

Ford needs to get its sh!t together and fast. Mustang, Fusion, and F-series are it's only great offerings. The new Edge and the 3.5L engine going into the 500, Freestyle, and Mercury/Lincoln models will help but it needs new offerings.




 
Mar 11, 2004
23,073
5,552
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Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
If the federal government started pouring money into AmTrak (SP?) to keep it afloat, I think they would do at least that much with the auto industry.

Yeah...AmTrak has turned out really well hasn't it?

There was an article I read today about an internal Toyota memo that was leaked that shows Toyota worried about having too much success in the United States. Link

Less government is needed to help the US auto industry, not more.

Nowhere did I say that government involvement was a GOOD thing, just that they would likely start pouring money into it before an imminent collapse. ;)

Totally different situation though. AmTrak represents the entire passenger rail system in the U.S., whereas there are plenty of other car manufacturers.

Not only that but even Bush said he wouldn't bail out any of them like what happened to Chrysler back in the 70s (or was it early 80s).