Do you consider the Rebel Flag to be racist?

[zinfamous]

If tatoos weren't permanent, I'd do it claiming the original meaning just to ruffle the feathers of ignorant assholes on the street

Well, this doesn't surprise me.

but,

so I can argue with them and educate them so they feel stupid :awe:

this would end up making you out to be the more foolish of the bunch, I think.

 

[shiner]

the swastika itself is an ancient symbol of life and vitality, and is pretty much ubiquitous in world culture--you'll find it just about anywhere.

The nazis hijacked it and forever perverted its association. I find it amusing how people will pick out swastikas in ancient architecture or designs, or even work of the 20th century that predates Nazi Germany, and simply assume that it's Nazi propaganda.

Well, of course people will mostly (and probably accurately) assume that anyone flying it as a flag today, or as a tat, or whatever, will do so with white supremacist intentions. Likewise, anyone tattooing a swastika on their body and proclaiming that it's the original meaning--not the modern perverted meaning, would be stupid to do so.

:\

Yeah. While in college I worked one summer at a museum that specialized in Native American art. One day a woman came up to me and angrily demanded we remove the NAZI pottery we had on display. I had no idea what she was talking about and told her we didn't have any such thing. She persisted and I finally asked her to show me what she was talking about. Turns out it was some, Hopi if memory serves me, pottery that was on display. I tried explaining it to her but she insisted it was NAZI.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I've never seen that flag in my life (and it was only used for 2 years). I've seen Union Jack everywhere.

Dito, where the hell did that flag come from?

 

[Nik]

Dito, where the hell did that flag come from?

First, read the thread. Second, do so before posting.

 

[MJinZ]

It's hanging in my garage because 1) the owner likes the design of the flag, 2) the owner likes the harley davidson bike & symbol and eagle on it. It's a rug.

You can hang whatever you want for whatever reason.

The swastika itself isn't racist. It's just a symbol; the motivation behind its display is what has the capacity for racism.

Swastika is not racist, but any person with an education and culture is aware of what the connotations and implications are when you align yourself with the swastika.

To display one knowingly, regardless how much you may fancy the design, is disrespectful towards an important history in mankind. Which is really what it means, regardless of whether or not you are anti-semitic.

So if I see one, I will be offended as it is disrespectful overall.

 

[zinfamous]

Yeah. While in college I worked one summer at a museum that specialized in Native American art. One day a woman came up to me and angrily demanded we remove the NAZI pottery we had on display. I had no idea what she was talking about and told her we didn't have any such thing. She persisted and I finally asked her to show me what she was talking about. Turns out it was some, Hopi if memory serves me, pottery that was on display. I tried explaining it to her but she insisted it was NAZI.

the semi-famous Corn Palace in Mitchell, SD. exterior: 1907

http://attractions.uptake.com/blog/files/2009/04/corn_palace_in_1907.jpg

for those that don't know, they change the facade every year? every couple of years? it's entirely made of corn and corn products.

damn 1907 Nazis!!! :twisted:

oh...wait. :hmm:

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

If tatoos weren't permanent, I'd do it claiming the original meaning just to ruffle the feathers of ignorant assholes on the street so I can argue with them and educate them so they feel stupid :awe:

That's awesome. So, what happens when one opf these ignorant assholes that understand the modern meaning don't provide you the chance to explain because you are busy pulling your teeth from the back of your throat?

Where is the irony icon for Nik referring to the "others" as ignorant?

Step 1) show off tattoo
Step 2) ????
Step 3) Profit

Ya, you are a real genious


POLL: I consider them offensive and view them as a racist symbol. I don't have a good rationalization for this. It's jsut my understanding from being 34.

 

[KeypoX]

The south will rise again!

 

[feralkid]

If tatoos weren't permanent, I'd do it claiming the original meaning just to ruffle the feathers of ignorant assholes on the street so I can argue with them and educate them so they feel stupid :awe:

You can get a temporary tattoo, Nik.

I double dare you.

And don't forget pics.

 

[Nik]

That's awesome. So, what happens when one opf these ignorant assholes that understand the modern meaning don't provide you the chance to explain because you are busy pulling your teeth from the back of your throat?

Where is the irony icon for Nik referring to the "others" as ignorant?

Step 1) show off tattoo
Step 2) ????
Step 3) Profit

Ya, you are a real genious


POLL: I consider them offensive and view them as a racist symbol. I don't have a good rationalization for this. It's jsut my understanding from being 34.

Take me more seriously, dipshit.

 

[shiner]

the semi-famous Corn Palace in Mitchell, SD. exterior: 1907

http://attractions.uptake.com/blog/files/2009/04/corn_palace_in_1907.jpg

for those that don't know, they change the facade every year? every couple of years? it's entirely made of corn and corn products.

damn 1907 Nazis!!! :twisted:

oh...wait. :hmm:

The 45th Infantry also used the swastika as their symbol until 1939 when the dumbass NAZI's adopted it and ruined it for everyone else. After that the 45th switched to the Thunderbird symbol.

One of my great uncles was in the unit at the time and my Dad still has one of his old field jackets, for lack of a better term, and covers that has the original swastika symbol. Somewhere in a cedar chest unless they have rotted away by now.......

 

[Nik]

You can get a temporary tattoo, Nik.

I double dare you.

And don't forget pics.

Haha come film it.

 

[Nik]

The south will rise again!

In everything except IQ.

 

[Nik]

Swastika is not racist, but any person with an education and culture is aware of what the connotations and implications are when you align yourself with the swastika.

To display one knowingly, regardless how much you may fancy the design, is disrespectful towards an important history in mankind. Which is really what it means, regardless of whether or not you are anti-semitic.

See, this is exactly my point.

The symbol is just a symbol. It's a drawing. A painting. A flag. A tatoo. A rug. A whatever.

You want to think it stands for something. I want to think it stands for something different.

Why is your something more right than mine?

 

[MJinZ]

See, this is exactly my point.

The symbol is just a symbol. It's a drawing. A painting. A flag. A tatoo. A rug. A whatever.

You want to think it stands for something. I want to think it stands for something different.

Why is your something more right than mine?

Yours has no social or cultural value in our world. Meanings change. Words lose meanings. As do ideas and symbols.

Until the day that the Swastika's significance wanes in our collective psyches, you will always be offending people if you display such a thing. If you do it knowingly and blatantly, you will be even more offensive because it would be purposely disrespectful.

 

[Nik]

Yours has no social or cultural value in our world. Meanings change. Words lose meanings. As do ideas and symbols.

Until the day that the Swastika's significance wanes in our collective psyches, you will always be offending people if you display such a thing.

In your world, you mean.

Since this seems to be incredibly hard for you to comprehend, I'll use another example.

I like to draw. Art is something I've always been good at and I like to doodle and draw and paint and all sorts of shit. There's a little way I sign my name that doesn't look like anything unless I explain what the shapes mean. To me, it means something. To you, it looks like nothing.

Because it means nothing to you, does that somehow overwrite the fact that it means something to me?

You can project your will all you want, but all you're doing is jumping up and down waving your arms making a stink about something that you have no authority to make a stink about.

 

[MJinZ]

In your world, you mean.

Since this seems to be incredibly hard for you to comprehend, I'll use another example.

I like to draw. Art is something I've always been good at and I like to doodle and draw and paint and all sorts of shit. There's a little way I sign my name that doesn't look like anything unless I explain what the shapes mean. To me, it means something. To you, it looks like nothing.

Because it means nothing to you, does that somehow overwrite the fact that it means something to me?

You can project your will all you want, but all you're doing is jumping up and down waving your arms making a stink about something that you have no authority to make a stink about.

No, not in my world. In OUR world. The assumption is that you are educated past High School with a standardized curriculum set by US Education standards and you live in the USA on Earth, and not Mars.

I have no authority to project or define what the Swastika means to our collective social psyches. That has already been determined by History and the Educational system.

 

[Nik]

No, not in my world. In OUR world. The assumption is that you are educated past High School with a standardized curriculum set by US Education standards and you live in the USA on Earth, and not Mars.

What does my education have to do with the difference between a symbol and what it stands for? Because, you know, there is a difference.

You just refuse to accept that fact because it doesn't support your close-minded opinion.

 

[mmntech]

The flag itself isn't racist but it's certainly been used for racist means. Symbols only mean what people want them to mean. The swastika, even the cross. It can be a symbol of salvation, a symbol of execution and death, or just a big T.

 

[Nik]

Some crosses were the shape of an X, too, mmntech, but not many people know that. I could go to school, fuck up a math test, and sue the school because the teacher drew religious symbols all over my paper.

 

[Schadenfroh]

No

 

[MJinZ]

What does my education have to do with the difference between a symbol and what it stands for? Because, you know, there is a difference.

You just refuse to accept that fact because it doesn't support your close-minded opinion.

What?

The Symbol has everything to do with Education.

Let's take: Fuck.

The word means something. A Symbol and a Word have meanings, and are often interchangeable. See Chinese Characters or Egyptian Hieroglyphs.

If you were educated in the middle of nowhere, Africa or Antarctica - then "Fuck" means nothing to you or your society. Probably.

If you were educated here in the USA - you learn "fuck" by the time you're 4 years old.

Now you can say "Fuck" is an awesome word and you can use it however you want, but "Fuck" has a defined and fairly absolute meaning in OUR society and OUR psyches.

If you use "Fuck" in ways that are deemed ... unsuitable for the situation, you will end up offending people or being disrespectful. Your love for the word and it's pretty sounds is irrelevant to how society perceives it.

The same applies to the Swastika. You don't generally learn about it at 4 years old, but you usually do after you turn 14.

Once you are cognizant of a certain widely/generally held representation (symbol, word, sound whatever) in your society that is taboo, use of it in an inappropriate manner are usually intended to offend or disrespect.

 

[Binarycow]

If it's possible, I always steer clear of people that hang that flag/fly that flag/have that flag as a tattoo or a as a vehicle decal the way I steer clear of people who dress/speak/look like inner-city thugs and their wanna be's.

 

[preslove]

What?

The Symbol has everything to do with Education.

Let's take: Fuck.

The word means something. A Symbol and a Word have meanings, and are often interchangeable. See Chinese Characters or Egyptian Hieroglyphs.

If you were educated in the middle of nowhere, Africa or Antarctic - then "Fuck" means nothing to you or your society. Probably.

If you were educated here in the USA - you learn "fuck" by the time you're 4 years old.

Now you can say "Fuck" is an awesome word and you can use it however you want, but "Fuck" has a defined and fairly absolute meaning in OUR society and OUR psyches.

If you use "Fuck" in ways that are deemed ... unsuitable for the situation, you will end up offending people or being disrespectful. Your love for the word and it's pretty sounds is irrelevant to how society perceives it.

The same applies to the Swastika. You don't generally learn about it at 4 years old, but you usually do after you turn 14.

Dude, forget it. If they gave belt grades to trolls, Nik would be, like, a 5th degree blackbelt in 20 different fighting styles. NO ONE can hijack a thread with nonsense arguments like Nik. Dude is freaking Super Ninja Death Troll.

 

[keird]

The south will rise again!

With what arms industry?