Do you consider the Rebel Flag to be racist?

[zinfamous]

I consider the OP racist.

 

[ccblazer44]

No- the confederates had a lot more to their political ideologies than just slavery, though that was obviously the flagship issue. I know people that declare themselves as confederates politically and are still extremely against slavery.

 

[DougK62]

I think that flag could be construed as racist by some, but for me I just see it as anti-American and anti-patriotic.

 

[AndroidVageta]

Nope. Got one hanging in my garage.

Why? What does this signify for your family?

Would hanging a Swastika be racist or hateful? I mean, the rebel flag is no longer racist apparently...even though originally I would argue that it was...

So considering the Swastika is a Buddhist symbol for universal harmony...can I hang one of those up?

 

[Kalmah]

I consider it to be racist.

 

[preslove]

Want a good lecture on the causes of the civil war?

http://academicearth.org/lectures/slavery-and-state-rights

The entire course is fucking fantastic and well worth the hours of your time it will take up. But that one video is incredible.

 

[zinfamous]

ITT: someone will point out that the civil war was fought over states' rights while ignoring the fact that it was fought over states' rights to allow slavery.


Regardless of what it may have represented in the past, racists have turned that flag into a symbol of racism. Knowing that, I don't think any reasonable non-racist person would fly it. Same with the swastika.

yup. Having grown up in the south, it's pretty awesome how the Civil War is taught from middle school-high school history.

You spend so much time learning about John Brown, Kansas, the maryland disputes--why those things happened, but whenever it comes to secession, the argument is directed towards slavery being an issue within states rights, rather than the singular issue involved in state's rights...which it was.

 

[Nik]

Why? What does this signify for your family?

Would hanging a Swastika be racist or hateful? I mean, the rebel flag is no longer racist apparently...even though originally I would argue that it was...

So considering the Swastika is a Buddhist symbol for universal harmony...can I hang one of those up?

It's hanging in my garage because 1) the owner likes the design of the flag, 2) the owner likes the harley davidson bike & symbol and eagle on it. It's a rug.

You can hang whatever you want for whatever reason.

The swastika itself isn't racist. It's just a symbol; the motivation behind its display is what has the capacity for racism.

 

[techs]

It will surprise you to note that most of the confederates that died in the civil war were too poor to even think about owning slaves.

If you actually ever studied history, it won't. You'll already have known that.

Wrong.
While most of the people were too poor to even think about owning slaves, it was the institution of slavery that molded their opinions and that of the slave owners and those who profited by the slaves that pushed most strongly to revolt. The souths economy was built on slavery. And poor white people owed what jobs they had to slaves, in every job from the dockworker, to the blacksmith, to the barrel maker, just as much as the slave owners

A simple answer is that the South seceeded because a President was elected who was anti-slavery, along with a Congress they believed would soon outlaw slavery. Or at least add new "free" states which would have given the abolitionists enough votes to abolish slavery.

In fact, can anyone remember reading of any 'states rights' issues except slavery that was a major issue? The south may have not liked protectionist tariffs that supported mostly northern industries, but you never hear of that as a make or break issue in secession.

If anyone has read any of the newspaper articles, or read speeches by southern politicians or preachers leading up to the civil war, you find the main focus was on how the north wanted to free the slaves and how that would destroy their economy, and destroy the social order by letting "savages" run wild.

 

[techs]

The swastika itself isn't racist. It's just a symbol; the motivation behind its display is what has the capacity for racism.

You fail.

 

[SlitheryDee]

No. Rednecks didn't start papering everything they own with rebel flags until it became a point of controversy. It probably started out as pride for being an autonomous political entity, however short a period that lasted for. Now I think it stands for "Fuck you yankee bastards who don't know shit about the south presuming to judge me and tell me why I like this flag". Many of these people are also racists, but I don't think the rebel flag has anything to do with that. It's like black people using the N word amongst themselves, rednecks have turned a derogatory into a point of pride.

 

[Nik]

You fail.

Hardly. Feel free to elaborate on how you think I fail, though.

 

[shiner]

No. Rednecks didn't start papering everything they own with rebel flags until it became a point of controversy. It probably started out as pride for being an autonomous political entity, however short a period that lasted for. Now I think it stands for "Fuck you yankee bastards who don't know shit about the south presuming to judge me and tell me why I like this flag". Many of these people are also racists, but I don't think the rebel flag has anything to do with that. It's like black people using the N word amongst themselves, rednecks have turned a derogatory into a point of pride.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

 

[mugs]

Don't you mean a state's right to leave the union? For the states that seceded, slavery was already legal in that area.

And they seceded because ________

(The answer rhymes with "blavery" )

http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html
You don't even have to read it, just ctrl-f and type "slave"


So yeah, it would be accurate to say that the civil war was fought over states' rights to disassociate themselves with our government, but the root cause was slavery.

 

[techs]

No. Rednecks didn't start papering everything they own with rebel flags until it became a point of controversy. It probably started out as pride for being an autonomous political entity, however short a period that lasted for. Now I think it stands for "Fuck you yankee bastards who don't know shit about the south presuming to judge me and tell me why I like this flag". Many of these people are also racists, but I don't think the rebel flag has anything to do with that. It's like black people using the N word amongst themselves, rednecks have turned a derogatory into a point of pride.

The Confederate Flag was flown at every protest against granting Negroes equal rights in the country thru the 1960's and beyond.
Turn on any anti civil rights rally video of the south and you will ALWAYS see Confederates flags. And I mean in a huge abundance.

It stands for racism, pure and simple.

 

[zinfamous]

It's hanging in my garage because 1) the owner likes the design of the flag, 2) the owner likes the harley davidson bike & symbol and eagle on it. It's a rug.

You can hang whatever you want for whatever reason.

The swastika itself isn't racist. It's just a symbol; the motivation behind its display is what has the capacity for racism.

the swastika itself is an ancient symbol of life and vitality, and is pretty much ubiquitous in world culture--you'll find it just about anywhere.

The nazis hijacked it and forever perverted its association. I find it amusing how people will pick out swastikas in ancient architecture or designs, or even work of the 20th century that predates Nazi Germany, and simply assume that it's Nazi propaganda.

Well, of course people will mostly (and probably accurately) assume that anyone flying it as a flag today, or as a tat, or whatever, will do so with white supremacist intentions. Likewise, anyone tattooing a swastika on their body and proclaiming that it's the original meaning--not the modern perverted meaning, would be stupid to do so.

:\

 

[techs]

You fail.

Hardly. Feel free to elaborate on how you think I fail, though.

If you don't think the swastika is racist then you fail. Its so simple even a racist can understand it.

 

[Taejin]

what the flag represented was in part racism. so yes.

 

[Nik]

If tatoos weren't permanent, I'd do it claiming the original meaning just to ruffle the feathers of ignorant assholes on the street so I can argue with them and educate them so they feel stupid :awe:

 

[preslove]

Wrong.
While most of the people were too poor to even think about owning slaves, it was the institution of slavery that molded their opinions and that of the slave owners and those who profited by the slaves that pushed most strongly to revolt. The souths economy was built on slavery. And poor white people owed what jobs they had to slaves, in every job from the dockworker, to the blacksmith, to the barrel maker, just as much as the slave owners

A simple answer is that the South seceeded because a President was elected who was anti-slavery, along with a Congress they believed would soon outlaw slavery. Or at least add new "free" states which would have given the abolitionists enough votes to abolish slavery.

In fact, can anyone remember reading of any 'states rights' issues except slavery that was a major issue? The south may have not liked protectionist tariffs that supported mostly northern industries, but you never hear of that as a make or break issue in secession.

If anyone has read any of the newspaper articles, or read speeches by southern politicians or preachers leading up to the civil war, you find the main focus was on how the north wanted to free the slaves and how that would destroy their economy, and destroy the social order by letting "savages" run wild.

Generally, the "Lost Cause" narrative harps on the tariff. But, yeah, any cursory reading of the primary sources of the time slaps you in the face with slavery. The whole ideology of slavery that evolved in the mid-19th century is pretty fascinating.

Here's another good resource on the causes of southern secession: http://www.amazon.com/Parties-Slaver.../dp/0820318981

I read it last year and it gives a really detailed view on the breakup of the Georgia Whig party because of slavery. It's a pretty easy political-history read.

 

[Nik]

If you don't think the swastika is racist then you fail. Its so simple even a racist can understand it.

I'm astounded at how stupid you are.

 

[zinfamous]

You fail.

No, Nik is right. The swastika, as with any symbol, means nothing on its own. It's simply a symbol. It's the meaning that people project into a symbol, based on certain associations that may or may not be accurate, or however they have been perverted, that provokes an emotional response.

As I mentioned above, the swastika is a funny example, as the response most commonly evoked by it is completely opposite of its original use.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I find about as much of an issue with that flag as I do the BMW logo.

 

[preslove]

No. Rednecks didn't start papering everything they own with rebel flags until it became a point of controversy. It probably started out as pride for being an autonomous political entity, however short a period that lasted for. Now I think it stands for "Fuck you yankee bastards who don't know shit about the south presuming to judge me and tell me why I like this flag". Many of these people are also racists, but I don't think the rebel flag has anything to do with that. It's like black people using the N word amongst themselves, rednecks have turned a derogatory into a point of pride.

Actually, the Confederate flag's last big comeback came during the civil rights era in the 1950's and 1960's.

That's when lynching came back into style, too.

 

[preslove]

And they seceded because ________

(The answer rhymes with "blavery" )

http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html
You don't even have to read it, just ctrl-f and type "slave"


So yeah, it would be accurate to say that the civil war was fought over states' rights to disassociate themselves with our government, but the root cause was slavery.

I thought of posting that, too. It's a classic page for countering the lost cause bullshitters