do illegal immigrants really have it better?

[chucky2]

Of course it's serious. I can't help it if you're still in preschool. For f*ck sakes man, you actually think people need training how to bend down and pick up garbage off the ground. You purport yourself to be a bastian of intelligence?

Buwhahahahahahahahaa!!!!

 

[peonyu]

We need to go back to the 90s where an illegal Mexican was just cheap labor and not a welfare state leech. All we need to do is cut off welfare funding and the worthless ones will naturally leave and the ones that will work for below minimum wage will stay. Win/win.

/Thread.

 

[Ninjahedge]

It is not a 100% win.

the key here is simple.

IF you are an illegal coming from a poor background and have a good work ethic you can do pretty well for yourself, better if you are smart enough to learn english and other skills.

But you also have guys that do not use our "free" medical system because they are afraid of being deported. I saw a guy RUN OVER in Queens, pick up his bike, and limp away trailing blood.

Is that lucky?

Other houses in Chinatown have families crowding many more into a cramped space just because they have nowhere else to go.

And this is not just the Chinese. The Slavs coming in in Brooklyn had similar problems with one of the most brutal organized crime syndicates in existence. And our beloved hispanics, scrubbing the floors and cleaning the toilets of 90% of the people here.

As for the people saying "I would do it" in regards to the crappy jobs that nobody wants. Congrats, here's your prize.

Unfortunately, you are leaving out a few key points. First, what you yourself do. If you are NOT working as such and say you "would", I cry BS. Saying you would and doing so for years are not one and the same. Second, even if you WERE one of the few that would break his back to support himself, you are not one of the many. As sited, w/o immigrant labor, we do not have the people needed to do those jobs. A half dozen posters on a tech website does not get you a 99¢ head of lettuce at WalMart.

And that is about it. Call them "lucky", but the fact is, until you have experienced nothing, and the crappy lives and unrewarding jobs they are forced to do, stop calling them "lucky" and just try to find a way that they can be treated like humans and not hated for doing the jobs we ourselves do not want to do.



(PS - these illegals are not the problem. Our own multi-generational WGAS welfare families are. These illegals are willing to work hard and produce something, it is only after several generations that they start to find ways to take advantage of the system. What we need to do, again, is to stop lumping. I think a hard working illegal has more right to stay here than a lazy ass "natural born" Amerikun)

 

[airdata]

Why don't you just take a few seconds and imagine that you had to spend every day worrying that you'll be arrested and sent to a country where your job prospects are few, and barely paying anything.

I saw a couple of guys riding in the back of a pickup last night on the highway... I was thinking of what a vastly different life we have. Here I am going trick or treating w\ my infant and these guys are riding in the back of a pick up on a cold night. Probably worked all day for not alot of money. Probably worry about getting deported all the time.

This is america. If not for immigrants and revolutionaries going against the system, we wouldn't be having any of these discussions. The idea of being born to a patch of dirt and not being able to cross imaginary lines in the dirt is silly really.

 

[First]

Of course it's serious. I can't help it if you're still in preschool. For f*ck sakes man, you actually think people need training how to bend down and pick up garbage off the ground. You purport yourself to be a bastian of intelligence?

Buwhahahahahahahahaa!!!!

It's cute you still think intelligent people here take your posts seriously. You're a riot, kid.

 

[bfdd]

No it's bullshit hyperbole. I don't think they should get any perks, but they do not have it any better. Dumbasses who have never known these kinds of people spout this bullshit.

 

[chucky2]

It's cute you still think intelligent people here take your posts seriously. You're a riot, kid.

I can't help it that it's the only realistic solultion to stopping the illegal invasion we've been having the past 35 years or so. I know you want to just keep everyone that can possibly get here coming in, but there's a few 10Million of US that don't want that.

Short of what I said in my post, nothing else will truly solve the problem effectively in any realistic timeframe.

Sorry son if that's too Reality for you, maybe you could try convincing us instead how jobless people would need to be trained how to pick money up off the ground, and need reminding on where to report the next day to do the same thing. Lots of lulz with you there is...

 

[Ninjahedge]

Treating immigrants poorly does not help.

Why? Simply put it is this:

You can't really stop them without spending (and also losing) a LOT of money.

We are not building a wall with robotic sentries and checking every car trunk, boat hull and any other means of entry. It just costs too much money.

As for things like Health Care and Education... You keep them uneducated, you get slums, you get crime, you get problems.

You do not help them when they are sick, you get new strains of the Flue and other nasties that breed freely in the masses. Even so, many still do not use the "free" care for fear of deportation. (I have seen more gaping open wounds on "ethnic" patients than simply cases of the sniffles...).

Oversimplifying the problem is no way to deal with it. Pundits always like to fill their arguments with soundbites because they are easier to script a response with.

The BEST thing we can do is try and use what we have to make sure we all benefit. Many of these immigrants are very hard working and willing to do much more than our own (for the most part) lazy "natural"s. Use it, educate their kids, and assimilate them into the mainstream. You don't and you end up with VERY large areas of people that are very difficult to integrate.

 

[chucky2]

I agree completely about using what we have. Our military is awesome, lets use it. That's what it's for, to defend the US. When being invaded, you need to defend yourself. Time to bring them home from thousands of miles away in hostile countries, to their own, defending their own. Can't think of a more perfect present use for them.

 

[Infohawk]

We are not building a wall with robotic sentries and checking every car trunk, boat hull and any other means of entry. It just costs too much money.

There's another simple option. Make it impossible for them to get work by punishing people to hire them. If that were the case, they would leave. Neither political party has the willpower to do this though. On the left people like you get the Democrats to support illegals and on the right businesses want cheap labor so they don't have to hire Americans at first world wages.

 

[First]

I can't help it that it's the only realistic solultion to stopping the illegal invasion we've been having the past 35 years or so.

Uhhhh how is U.S. state-sponsored murder against men, women and children who have been residents of the U.S. for years or decades justified because they're simply physically in the U.S. illegally? Is their intent to come into the U.S. to suicide bomb, maim, kill or cause mayhem to deserve such brutal police-state-like force? rofl. What harm have they done exactly to deserve police-state behavior, and on what planet do you live on where you think the people would (lol) support this inane, overly expensive boondoggle?

I know you want to just keep everyone that can possibly get here coming in, but there's a few 10Million of US that don't want that.

They don't prefer murder far, far more than illegal "invasion", lol!

Short of what I said in my post, nothing else will truly solve the problem effectively in any realistic timeframe.

Mass murder isn't actually effective though, as the diplomatic nightmare and crimes against humanity of murdering thousands of illegals isn't in the cards for anyone particularly sane and, frankly, for people that aren't knuckle draggers. This is the king of knuckle dragging solutions. Congrats you win!

Sorry son if that's too Reality for you, maybe you could try convincing us instead how jobless people would need to be trained how to pick money up off the ground, and need reminding on where to report the next day to do the same thing. Lots of lulz with you there is...

lulz. What's funny is that you truly believe in your heart you're a sharp guy. I wonder if you will ever understand how thick that skull is someday. I guess someone has to say it to your face for you to ever truly get it. Eye-to-eye contact is more effective than cyber pummeling.

 

[Gintaras]

Not everything what's legal - is moral,
Not everything, what's illegal - is unmoral

To begin with, who was very 1st so called legal immigrant in North America, a country, today is named USA?

Many, who call themselves legal immigrants, came to this country THE VERY SAME WAY as so called illegal immigrants. Question: what difference between 2 of you?
Why some are legal, some illegal?

100% legal people in this country are native americans - indians, rest are illegal, because it was taken by agression, against will of native people - indians Or have they started issuing green card right away?...Some have deceided, that they're legally here...because they got some paper piece from somewhere...Corrupt goverment workers with the help of lawyers?

That's where need to start about


If Germany in last century won WWII and conquered US, it could be same legally called Germany...wouldn't it be?

Stalin(Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili) wasn't russian, none of those, who made a military coupe(called a Revolution) in Russia in 1917, were russians...
But most of you, consider russians and Russia of communists/communist country...
WHY?
People, who say something they don't really know - are NOT considered intelligent people, rather, stupid...
Russians, Russia didn't have any communist ideas in the past, nor even execute them...
But many consider, Russia as a communist country and russians as a communist people - thse are willing to pose as a stupid people with no knowledge....

While talking to legal or illegall immigrants in US is the same...some, with no knowlegde, nor morals - what's no good in the first place, try to judge other people, that may be better...

Just think for yourself....

 

[Ninjahedge]

I agree completely about using what we have. Our military is awesome, lets use it. That's what it's for, to defend the US. When being invaded, you need to defend yourself. Time to bring them home from thousands of miles away in hostile countries, to their own, defending their own. Can't think of a more perfect present use for them.

Nope.

One thing we set this country up on was to make sure our army was to defend against outside threats. You start bringing them in and you risk a military dictatorship or oppression through very direct measures.

I feel more wary seeing a soldier in Penn station than safe... Like I am in a military zone or under martial law.....

 

[Ninjahedge]

There's another simple option. Make it impossible for them to get work by punishing people to hire them. If that were the case, they would leave. Neither political party has the willpower to do this though. On the left people like you get the Democrats to support illegals and on the right businesses want cheap labor so they don't have to hire Americans at first world wages.

DING!

There you go.

It is EXACTLY like WalMart. Most people feel a bit of guilt knowing their employee policies (like 39 hours a week or less of work to avoid benefits, buying products from china, deliberately low-balling prices in an area to push out competition then raising them once they are the only ones there, etc etc), but most are not willing to pay a dime extra for Pampers.....

We do not like the idea of paying "so much" for these immigrants, but the irony being, we are probably paying less once you add up all the $$s... (How much would you pay to get your lawn mowed w/o Julio on the riding mower?)

 

[chucky2]

Nope.

One thing we set this country up on was to make sure our army was to defend against outside threats. You start bringing them in and you risk a military dictatorship or oppression through very direct measures.

I feel more wary seeing a soldier in Penn station than safe... Like I am in a military zone or under martial law.....

What are you talking about? I never said use our military internally[/I, I said put them on the border to defend against the illegal invasion: Invasions usually happen outside of whatever is being defended, not the other way around.

I can't think of a more clear and large scope item for our military to defend our country's long term welfare than keeping 1/2 of Mexico and South America from coming to the US, along with their kids, grandkids, great-grandkids, etc.

Chuck

 

[chucky2]

Uhhhh how is U.S. state-sponsored murder against men, women and children who have been residents of the U.S. for years or decades justified because they're simply physically in the U.S. illegally? Is their intent to come into the U.S. to suicide bomb, maim, kill or cause mayhem to deserve such brutal police-state-like force? rofl. What harm have they done exactly to deserve police-state behavior, and on what planet do you live on where you think the people would (lol) support this inane, overly expensive boondoggle?

Mmmmm...nice. Except, I never said anything about the illegals already here. (O')Bummer for you that I didn't huh?

They don't prefer murder far, far more than illegal "invasion", lol!

Unfortunately for large portions of our population that's true. They'd rather F the country of themselves, their kids, grandkids, etc., getting worse as population rises, continuing to get worse as - mostly, as designed - unchecked invasion continues, just so they don't have to see the media ratings images on TV/newspaper of people who decided to go get themselves killed. Why they're this self-defeating, I'll never understand. I know 10's of Millions more don't either, but hey, we're not represented really, it's you fringe F'rs who are the base of your respective parties.

Mass murder isn't actually effective though, as the diplomatic nightmare and crimes against humanity of murdering thousands of illegals isn't in the cards for anyone particularly sane and, frankly, for people that aren't knuckle draggers. This is the king of knuckle dragging solutions. Congrats you win!

It's not really mass murder, more like Border Defense. You could spin it as Mass Suicide, but, that's really the problem of those choosing to get themselves killed. Don't want to be killed? Legally immigrate rather than illegally invade.

Defending one's own borders is knucle dragging??? Maybe you should let every other country that bothers to control immigration, including, oh, hey look!, Mexico, know that. I'm sure they'll appreciate your take on things, given they do the exact opposite. I see you used 'lulz' below, was that in response to your post? Everything about it is lulz. Good call! :thumbsup:

lulz.

Yes, your posts are funny. Again, good call at laughing at yourself, I (and I'm sure others reading your sh1t) have been as well.

What's funny is that you truly believe in your heart you're a sharp guy. I wonder if you will ever understand how thick that skull is someday. I guess someone has to say it to your face for you to ever truly get it. Eye-to-eye contact is more effective than cyber pummeling.

What's truly funny is you feel qualified to say any of this, given you think I was talking about the illegal invaders already in our country, you equate effective border control - something every other significant country does - with mass murder, and then lulz at your own posts.

It must be your job training people how to pick up paper money off the ground. Working with people that brain dead must be tiring, but hey, even the mentally challenged need jobs, at least you've got one! :thumbsup:

Do you maintain eye to eye contact when demonstrating how to pick up the paper? Is that how you know it's more effective?

lulz indeed... :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Chuck

 

[Ninjahedge]

What are you talking about? I never said use our military internally[/I, I said put them on the border to defend against the illegal invasion: Invasions usually happen outside of whatever is being defended, not the other way around.

I can't think of a more clear and large scope item for our military to defend our country's long term welfare than keeping 1/2 of Mexico and South America from coming to the US, along with their kids, grandkids, great-grandkids, etc.

Chuck

I would prefer them on our border than another's, but it is still a colossal waste of cash over a non-issue.

 

[shortylickens]

DING!

There you go.

It is EXACTLY like WalMart. Most people feel a bit of guilt knowing their employee policies (like 39 hours a week or less of work to avoid benefits, buying products from china, deliberately low-balling prices in an area to push out competition then raising them once they are the only ones there, etc etc), but most are not willing to pay a dime extra for Pampers.....

We do not like the idea of paying "so much" for these immigrants, but the irony being, we are probably paying less once you add up all the $$s... (How much would you pay to get your lawn mowed w/o Julio on the riding mower?)

I hate shopping at walmart specifically because they abuse Americans and pander to illegals.
And I grew up in a time and place where it was generally considered pretty disgusting if you didnt mow your own lawn and shovel your own driveway.
Either those days have gone bye-bye, or I grew up in some weird alternate universe.

 

[chucky2]

I would prefer them on our border than another's, but it is still a colossal waste of cash over a non-issue.

I disagree, most emphatically, with your bolded. Given that, we can agree to disagree at this point.

 

[First]

Mmmmm...nice. Except, I never said anything about the illegals already here. (O')Bummer for you that I didn't huh?

Oh that's right you wrote a poorly worded sentence and are obfuscating. Too bad it takes little away from my original point. No one supports your proposed police-state insanity. What is their intent, to come into the U.S. to suicide bomb, maim, kill or cause mayhem, to deserve such brutal police-state-like force?

Unfortunately for large portions of our population that's true. They'd rather F the country of themselves, their kids, grandkids, etc., getting worse as population rises, continuing to get worse as - mostly, as designed - unchecked invasion continues, just so they don't have to see the media ratings images on TV/newspaper of people who decided to go get themselves killed. Why they're this self-defeating, I'll never understand. I know 10's of Millions more don't either, but hey, we're not represented really, it's you fringe F'rs who are the base of your respective parties.

"We" outnumber you. By a lot. Not many Americans are tarded enough to want to kill thousands of immigrants seeking a better life via work in the U.S. It's not particularly difficult to understand. No, 10's of millions of Americans don't want to murder these people. Sorry.

It's not really mass murder, more like Border Defense. You could spin it as Mass Suicide, but, that's really the problem of those choosing to get themselves killed. Don't want to be killed? Legally immigrate rather than illegally invade.

You couldn't explain if your life depended on it why immigrants crossing illegally should be murdered by the U.S. gov't. I'll repeat: is their intent to come into the U.S. to suicide bomb, maim, kill or cause mayhem to deserve such brutal police-state-like force? And I'll be bumping this constantly to make sure you won't forget that your wimp-out doesn't go unnoticed.

Defending one's own borders is knucle dragging??? Maybe you should let every other country that bothers to control immigration, including, oh, hey look!, Mexico, know that. I'm sure they'll appreciate your take on things, given they do the exact opposite. I see you used 'lulz' below, was that in response to your post? Everything about it is lulz. Good call! :thumbsup:

List which countries kill their immigrants crossing illegally, and be sure to link it. And why the hell are you using Mexico as the crux of your argument in a discussion about something that would clearly be inhumane and (btw) totally illegal under U.S. and international law.

Oh, and I'll keep reposting this question of mine til it gets through that special skull of yours: "Is their intent to come into the U.S. to suicide bomb, maim, kill or cause mayhem to deserve such brutal police-state-like force?"

What's truly funny is you feel qualified to say any of this, given you think I was talking about the illegal invaders already in our country, you equate effective border control - something every other significant country does - with mass murder, and then lulz at your own posts.

It must be your job training people how to pick up paper money off the ground. Working with people that brain dead must be tiring, but hey, even the mentally challenged need jobs, at least you've got one! :thumbsup:

Do you maintain eye to eye contact when demonstrating how to pick up the paper? Is that how you know it's more effective?

lulz indeed... :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Chuck

Sadly this was the best part of your post, lol.

 

[chucky2]

Oh that's right you wrote a poorly worded sentence and are obfuscating. Too bad it takes little away from my original point. No one supports your proposed police-state insanity. What is their intent, to come into the U.S. to suicide bomb, maim, kill or cause mayhem, to deserve such brutal police-state-like force?

My sentence was fine, you just couldn't wait to Bleeding Heart/White Guilt/DamnTheMan! so you jumped the gun and ASSumed...sorry you were wrong, but you were - and are.

I realize you've lost this debate and need to create a strawman to try and "win", so congrats, you've - sort of - "won" your strawman argument. Unfortunately for your "win", and for the long term welfare of our country, anyone with a brain (even one that needs to be trained to pick up paper) can understand that we're going to have to Amensty all the Illegal Invaders that are already here. I'm sure you just came in your pants, or panties, whichever you wear, envisioning that. So see? We can agree on something!

"We" outnumber you. By a lot. Not many Americans are tarded enough to want to kill thousands of immigrants seeking a better life via work in the U.S. It's not particularly difficult to understand. No, 10's of millions of Americans don't want to murder these people. Sorry.

Oh, I think I'm well within the bounds of "rightness" here on my estimate. If you asked every American if they'd rather:

1.) Just have Open Boarders and let Everyone that could get here in (I'm sure your stance), to turn the US long term into an overcrowded shithole.

2.) Just keep doing the charade we're doing, exploiting the illegals and letting the business owners effectively be modern day slave owners...along with F'ing over our legal citizens and those properly waiting in line (who are in just as bad - or worse - places than those streaming across our souther border).

3.) A new meaningless smokescreen solution that will not work and just in the end keep letting in high hundreds of thousands/Millions of people who don't belong her, basically #2, but with a new smokescreen remix.

4.) Bring home our military from ourseas, use them to lock down the southern border tight, with lethal force, and then Amnesty the illegals that are here.

I have very high confidence there'd be 10's of Millions that would be signing up for Option 4. Granted, there'd be a lot of you that wanted Option 1, however, given Option 1, you're the extreme Left: Even the moderates in your party laugh about you (not in your company/publically of course, they need you zealots for your guaranteed votes).

You couldn't explain if your life depended on it why immigrants crossing illegally should be murdered by the U.S. gov't. I'll repeat: is their intent to come into the U.S. to suicide bomb, maim, kill or cause mayhem to deserve such brutal police-state-like force? And I'll be bumping this constantly to make sure you won't forget that your wimp-out doesn't go unnoticed.

Bump it all you want. I don't need to explain it: It's the F'ing BORDER, It Exists For A Reason. And, please stop sensationalizing: It's not murder, it's killing. The people illegally crossing would decide they want to be killed rather than coming into the US legally. If caught and not able to be detained or forced back with a known degree of confidence they're back to their side, they'd be killed. They don't need to be suicide bombers, come here to maim or kill, whatever. They're simply choosing to cross a militarized border. If they don't want to be killed, don't cross it, do this thing we have here called: Coming to the US legally. I tried to make that as simple as I could for you. Did you follow it, or did I 'wimp out'? Let me guess: I didn't change my mind and chant, Open Borders For All!!! Open Borders For All!!! F*ck Whitey!!! F*ck Whitey!!! If We Don't Have Open Borders We're Racist Xenophobes!!!, so I 'wimp'd out', amirite?

List which countries kill their immigrants crossing illegally, and be sure to link it.And why the hell are you using Mexico as the crux of your argument in a discussion about something that would clearly be inhumane and (btw) totally illegal under U.S. and international law.

Don't care if it's illegal under international law. I could care less what any other country thinks of our illegal invasion problem. Don't give even 1/10th of a moldy f*ck. If Mexico, who'd have the largest problem with it, has a problem with it, then they can keep their people from crossing over our border. Since in Reality they do just about everything they can to encourage their folks to cross over our border (it gets population out of their country, and US $$$$ back into theirs), why would you ever, and I mean ever, bring up what Mexico, or any other country, thinks about our immigration policy??? Haha, Total Delusion. Perhaps this is where you've gone seriously wrong mentally (I'm assuming you're a US citizen btw): You actually care what Mexicans, Mexico as a country, and any other country in the world thinks about our border control policy with Mexico? Really?

Oh, and I'll keep reposting this question of mine til it gets through that special skull of yours: "Is their intent to come into the U.S. to suicide bomb, maim, kill or cause mayhem to deserve such brutal police-state-like force?"

Irrellevant strawman, but I answered it above for you since you seem to think it's important.

Chuck

 

[CitizenKain]

Reading a chucky post is never worth it, he's too stupid to string together a decent sentence, and if he does by accident, it isn't worth reading anyway.

 

[DCal430]

They have it better than people who come here on VISAs. People on Visa have to pay for all of their education while these who come here illegally get it for free. Now there is a push to give those who come illegally a path to citizenship, but those who lived here most of their life using a VISA have no path to citizenship and never will.

 

[Ninjahedge]

DC, I think you are singling out some shortcomings, but your examples do not look at the full picture.

Visa immigrants get minimum wage and actually have an ID. Illegals do not.

We are so quick to point out inequities that we see going in favor of an oppressed and exploited mass of people and cry "foul" without ever taking a look at what they actually have to deal with on all ends.

And free education? Can you say "vague statement"? Where did that come from?

 

[shortylickens]

They have it better than people who come here on VISAs. People on Visa have to pay for all of their education while these who come here illegally get it for free. Now there is a push to give those who come illegally a path to citizenship, but those who lived here most of their life using a VISA have no path to citizenship and never will.

Yeah if you ever need a non-American to tell you illegal immigration is wrong just go find a legal immigrant and ask them about all the crap they put up with.