Do high end user use AMD instead of Intel?

[AtenRa]

Given your ads are publicly posted and in plain sight for all to see, it's pretty obvious looking at advert after advert after advert, repeated by the dozens (if not hundreds).

Those are not adverts, they are advice given to the forum users asking advice about AMD hardware for building custom PC systems.

Its like someone here asking "what AMD CPU to use for a gaming PC" and i respond with "this AMD CPU its best for you because of that and this and the other reason"

Posting a single picture of a post i made in a thread consisting of lots of pages, of a user making a question and me giving advice its not advert. Get real and stop posting nonsense.

Are the same salesmen posting on Anandtech (and "forgetting" to mention they're salesmen even when directly asked and 3rd parties have to answer for them)? AFAIK, you're the only salesmen here with "money in the game". It's the difference between personal opinion and obvious occupational vested interests. If you own your own retail store and the bulk of your sales are predominantly AMD stuff (in line with your adverts), just be honest and say so, and drop the fake "I am completely unbiased" act...

What i sell in Greece has nothing to do with the AT forums. I can NOT possible have any profit by writing my opinion here. Also i havent advertised my company or any internet site selling PC Hardware here. And im not obliged (or any other AT forum member) by the AT forum rules to post my occupation, unless im working in a PC hardware manufacturer.
So since im not working for AMD or Intel or NVIDIA or any other company i dont have to mention my occupation here.

Clear ???

 

[BSim500]

Those are not adverts, they are advice given to the forum users asking advice about AMD hardware for building custom PC systems. Its like someone here asking "what AMD CPU to use for a gaming PC" and i respond with "this AMD CPU its best for you because of that and this and the other reason"

In that case, a lot of people must be running the "adviceblock plus" browser plugin... "I'm a salesman, and official Okabit partner, this AMD is best for you, please PM me for a price and listen to others promoting the Aten store that is completely brand neutral except that +95% of sales are AMD and we sell only AMD CPU's in certain tranches". Yeah, that's "exactly the same" as general AMD vs Intel forum banter by non salesmen that don't end each post with a self-plugging "message me for a price"...

"i dont have to mention my occupation here".

Sure but when people ask you directly (and over a dozen people have on half a dozen threads before this one, including people completely new to the forums) due to the suspiciously disproportionate daily effort you put into brand advocacy, and you remain silent and others have to answer for you, and then you attack them out of embarrassment, it doesn't exactly reflect very well on you in general does it? To me it isn't even about Intel vs AMD bias, but the rather weasely way you actively try and avoid answering "the question" of "does your job involve selling & promoting AMD hardware", to which the answer is "yes", whenever it gets asked, and the fake indignation that follows on whenever others have to answer for you.

As others have said, that so many people are asking only you that question in the first place (but not to other forum members with varying degrees of AMD / Intel / nVidia bias) should tell you something in itself as to the generally perceived "sales pitchy" tone of your posts even though they don't overtly state "FX chips! Buy now!"... Many people's posts here smack of fanboyism, but yours literally screams out "salesman". It's something a lot of people have (and still are) picking up on, even if you cannot perceive it yourself.

 

[richaron]

It's kinda amusing when one of the few dedicated pro AMD posters is the subject of a witch hunt by many of the dedicated anti-AMD posters (plus the rest ofc). I don't think any of the "trolls" are a surprise to forum regulars, but that doesn't mean we should accept it either way.

You may continue what seems to be some sort of group/self gratification in all the rest of the threads, but why not try to actually be objective sometimes?

The PC I'm writing this on has 4*HDD, 2*SSD, and 16GB RAM. That's a "high end" memory subsystem in anyones books (re' PCs), and CPU performance is more than enough for the job at hand.

Obviously the answers you should be saying are:
Should I use AMD for a high end system? It depends...
Do high end user [sic] use AMD instead of Intel? Yes, many do.

For the record, I vote CPUs & OC gets the same treatment recently done to video cards. Segregation. So the moderators will be given a bit more power to combat the rampant "trolls".

 

[DrMrLordX]

Well everyone knows that you cant have 4K AND minimum fps hovering at 60frames, unless you play older non IQ demanding games or you lower IQ significantly.

That's going to be the user's discretion beyond that point, but what you are generally describing is a situation where the user is GPU-limited. In some circumstances, the high-end user may drop back to 1440p or try other tactics to raise frames, which is where you'll see large increases in minimum fps on an LGA2011 v3 machine but you won't see it on AM3+ (at least not the the same extent, and certainly not on a budget CPU like an 8320e).

Also for the Metro benchmark just to point out that it seams that no matter what hardware combination you through at it it will always register a low fps even with SLI GTX980Ti (6GB) or CrossFire R9 390X(8GB).
I believe it has to do with the Metro benchmark itself and you will not experience anything like that playing the game. You can see from the graph bellow that even those two latest GPUs with 6 and 8 GB of memory also have low fps. Im sure you will not have that low fps playing the game at 4K with any of those GPUs in SLI/CF.

That may be a foible of Metro then, though I would also point to stuff like Unigine Heaven benchmarks you posted here and note that it had pretty bad minimum framerates too.

If you're in a GPU-limited scenario after you have gone out and bought SLI TitanX or Crossfired Fury XT (or whatever) and overclocked both cards without reaching the desired framerate target, you drop IQ until you get what you want. The faster the CPU you have under the hood, the less IQ you drop before reaching that point. And that is one of many reasons why high-end users stick to Intel right now.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The PC I'm writing this on has 4*HDD, 2*SSD, and 16GB RAM. That's a "high end" memory subsystem in anyones books (re' PCs), and CPU performance is more than enough for the job at hand.

Obviously the answers you should be saying are:
Should I use AMD for a high end system? It depends...
Do high end user [sic] use AMD instead of Intel? Yes, many do.

Bear in mind that, at one point, we did have an OP posting in this thread who had specific demands that would not have been well-met by an AMD processor. Unfortunately, the OP opted for an Intel CPU that might also struggle with his intended workload.

That's a fine storage/ I/O system you have there, but that doesn't really mean it's applicable to what the OP had in mind.

For the record, I vote CPUs & OC gets the same treatment recently done to video cards. Segregation. So the moderators will be given a bit more power to combat the rampant "trolls".

Other forums already do this. It might be a good idea to go in that direction. If you have an aquarium where fish are eating one another, you either put them in separate tanks or you get different fish. Getting different fish is not an option here.

The downside is that it'll be harder for us to have unified benchmark threads like the Cinebench R11.5 and R15 threads. If we are going to have an AMD/Intel forum split, it may be a good idea to have a separate benchmarking subforum as well, without it necessarily being limited to CPU benchmarking.

 

[AtenRa]

@BSim500

I dont have to answer anyone's questions about my personal life here. If you want to know my occupation you can PM and i will think about answering you. By doing so here you are off topic, thread crapping, personally attacking and insulting me.
And by AT forum rules you are not allowed to do so, so I will advice you to stop the anti-AtenRa crusade or i will report you and/or anyone else if you will continue posting false information about me in the public.

Anandtech CPU and Overclocking Forums
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2332179

No baiting, flaming, trolling, thread crapping, cussing or insulting. So if you have an opinion you can state without insulting people, do so, stating it as an opinion. If you have FACTS on a thread, link to a reputable source and state your summation. Anything else not pertinent to a thread is probably infractionable.

also on general forum rules,
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=60552

1) No trolling, flaming or personally attacking members. Deftly attacking ideas and backing up arguments with facts is acceptable and encouraged. Attacking other members personally and purposefully causing trouble with no motive other than to upset the crowd is not allowed.

 

[AtenRa]

That's going to be the user's discretion beyond that point, but what you are generally describing is a situation where the user is GPU-limited. In some circumstances, the high-end user may drop back to 1440p or try other tactics to raise frames, which is where you'll see large increases in minimum fps on an LGA2011 v3 machine but you won't see it on AM3+ (at least not the the same extent, and certainly not on a budget CPU like an 8320e).

Even at 1440/1600p most of the latest AAA titles are GPU limited with a single GPU. They may no be with latest high end GPUs like TITAN-X/GTX980 Ti and Fury X.
But im certain at 4K you can have the same playability with the FX 8-core at 4.4GHz and any other Intel CPU from Core i5 upwards.

That may be a foible of Metro then, though I would also point to stuff like Unigine Heaven benchmarks you posted here and note that it had pretty bad minimum framerates too.

I dont give a lot of interest in synthetics, they have a purpose but i wouldnt compare their performance to actual games.

If you're in a GPU-limited scenario after you have gone out and bought SLI TitanX or Crossfired Fury XT (or whatever) and overclocked both cards without reaching the desired framerate target, you drop IQ until you get what you want. The faster the CPU you have under the hood, the less IQ you drop before reaching that point. And that is one of many reasons why high-end users stick to Intel right now.

At 4K TODAY you will always be GPU limited in latest games even if you lower the IQ settings. This is not 1080p, we are talking about 4x times the pixel count. And as i have said before, with Mantle and DX-12 that is coming soon, CPU utilization will significantly improve the following months. Todays GPUs including Maxwell and Fury are not enough to make you CPU limited at 4K even if you lower IQ to Medium/High from Ultra. Hell many latest AAA games even at 1080p are GPU limited if you enable AA filters.
Any way, the fact is that people use AMD FX CPUs for 4K gaming today. Some others will prefer to use Intel, but that doesnt mean that nobody uses AMD FX CPUs for high-end Gaming today.

 

[2is]

Hey may not have all the "facts" in the strictest sense of the word. The circumstantial evidence however, is overwhelming. I suspect that's the reason you're getting overly defensive about the situation and are threatening to tell mother.

 

[TheELF]

I dont give a lot of interest in synthetics, they have a purpose but i wouldnt compare their performance to actual games.

Lol,the only kind of benchmarks that you post are synthetic ones,you never use actual gameplay but only the benchmarks provided by the games, and those are as synthetic as can be.
(except when you post benchmarks where the gpu is the limiting factor)

 

[DrMrLordX]

Even at 1440/1600p most of the latest AAA titles are GPU limited with a single GPU. They may no be with latest high end GPUs like TITAN-X/GTX980 Ti and Fury X.

. . . which is what the high-end users are going to be using very soon, if not already. TitanX has been around for awhile.

But im certain at 4K you can have the same playability with the FX 8-core at 4.4GHz and any other Intel CPU from Core i5 upwards.

Bollocks. Show me a 4k bench-off between a 4.5 GHz 5930k and a 4.4 GHz FX 83xx chip with any of the following configurations:

TitanX SLI
980Ti SLI
Fury XT Crossfire
390X Crossfire

Eliminate vendor-specific features like hairworks if you must, but I'll leave that for the GPU fanatics to fight over. The Intel system will push higher FPS and will be far more likely to bring minimums above 30/60 depending on the title.

If you start including DX12 software (what little there is now, there will be more later), Intel extends their lead with their hexacore and octocore Haswell-E offerings.

There will be the odd piece of poorly-written/poorly-optimized software that gives strange results (Homeworld: Remastered perhaps, or SC2), but the overall trend is going to favor the Intel machine. Furthermore, if we go back to what the OP was wanting to do with HIS machine - which is the point of this entire thread - you'll see that he wants to drive three different high-res monitors, one of which must run a game (OP cited Witcher 3 if I recall correctly) while the other two must run basic productivity apps, OC/system monitoring software, and other unspecified stuff, ALL AT THE SAME TIME. LGA2011 v3 or bust, no questions asked.

I dont give a lot of interest in synthetics, they have a purpose but i wouldnt compare their performance to actual games.

Okay . . . but you linked some regardless.

At 4K TODAY you will always be GPU limited in latest games even if you lower the IQ settings.

GPU-limited, or GPU-strangled? It's one thing to push resolution and IQ so high that the GPUs can't keep up, no matter what the underlying hardware. It's another thing to use better GPUs with more VRAM (or better VRAM with better texture management/compression, which is what AMD aims to do with Fiji) where the majority of the performance is indicated by a). the GPU used and b). the ability of the host CPU to handle draw calls + driver overhead.

In the end, the faster CPU will win provided the GPUs can handle the job in the first place (so the next frontier of "unplayable framerates" will be in the 5k and 8k resolutions, which will be the source of much consternation for high-end users). But if you're trying to sell us the false bill of goods that all high-end users are going to have to be satisfied with minimum framerates of 12.8 or lower in Bioshock Infinite at 4k, and that there's no way around it, and that we may as well just use a 4.4 GHz 8320e 'cuz it'll fail just as badly as a 4.5 GHz 5930k, you're nuts.

 

[frozentundra123456]

So basically we are back to the theory that we should save a hundred or two hundred dollars on a 2 or 3 thousand dollar system and force ourselves to play at gpu limited settings, no matter how terrible the framerate, just so the cpu wont be shown up to be inferior. Okay.....if you say so. Now I will grant that there *are* people that use an FX in such a system. However, people do a lot of things for a lot of reasons, that does not necessarily make it the best or most logical choice.

 

[Man I Suck]

@BSim500

I dont have to answer anyone's questions about my personal life here. If you want to know my occupation you can PM and i will think about answering you. By doing so here you are off topic, thread crapping, personally attacking and insulting me.
And by AT forum rules you are not allowed to do so, so I will advice you to stop the anti-AtenRa crusade or i will report you and/or anyone else if you will continue posting false information about me in the public.

Anandtech CPU and Overclocking Forums
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2332179

also on general forum rules,
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=60552

Holy crap, calm down Francis.

 

[soccerballtux]

It doesn't have to,as long as it is close it's a good deal,and not only is it close it is in the lead,despite having only two physical cores.

considering any fx-8xxx part for $100 can hit 4.4ghz, this basically negates the i3 lineup you're defending

 

[soccerballtux]

Is AtenRa on AMD's payroll? Honest question.

I think given the evidence he presented it's more likely ShintaiDK is on Intel's

 

[frozentundra123456]

considering any fx-8xxx part for $100 can hit 4.4ghz, this basically negates the i3 lineup you're defending

Sure, if you want to use 3 times the power for similar, or still even lower, performance in a lot of games and single or lightly threaded applications that dont use all the threads of an FX. And on top of it have a dgpu lying around to add, since it has no igp, and that will add even more to the already excessive power consumption.

Edit: Right now 8320e is 140.00 on new egg, and the cheapest I see it listed on PC Partpicker is 135.00. If you have a link where there is an FX-8xxx currently available for 100.00, please provide it.

 

[soccerballtux]

Holy crap, calm down Francis.

he has a right to be offended given some of the things being said. I've personally seen i2s flat out lie, and you came in here guns blazing too like you owned the place when you've only been here 2 months, so I'm not too inclined to listen to either ^_^

 

[soccerballtux]

Sure, if you want to use 3 times the power for similar, or still even lower, performance in a lot of games and single or lightly threaded applications that dont use all the threads of an FX. And on top of it have a dgpu lying around to add, since it has no igp, and that will add even more to the already excessive power consumption.

those are older games that don't matter.

most of the time it's at idle anyhow so. power consumption is just an excuse

 

[ShintaiDK]

I think given the evidence he presented it's more likely ShintaiDK is on Intel's

Could you show me this edvidence? Because for your sake I dont hope you base it on the fact that AMD uses Intel in their Quantum.

 

[Abwx]

Hey may not have all the "facts" in the strictest sense of the word. The circumstantial evidence however, is overwhelming. I suspect that's the reason you're getting overly defensive about the situation and are threatening to tell mother.

The only overhelming evidence is that people short of arguments invariably rely to ad hominem, exactly what you re doing in your post.

The kind of evidences that would have a value in this forum are the technical one, if you have none then you have no argument.

 

[frozentundra123456]

those are older games that don't matter.

most of the time it's at idle anyhow so. power consumption is just an excuse

Hmmm.. by this reasoning the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are a better football team than the New England Patriots. I mean, after all, the two games that they won during their pathetic season are the only ones that count. By that metric they had a perfect season.

Even though there are plenty of newer games where an i3 is as fast or faster than an FX, and I still dont see that link for the 100.00 FX, I am done with this. There is no point arguing with someone who obviously intends to ignore or disqualify any data that does not fit his agenda.

 

[jhu]

Do high end user use AMD instead of Intel?

Yes, but it's overwhelmingly Intel

 

[Man I Suck]

he has a right to be offended given some of the things being said. I've personally seen i2s flat out lie, and you came in here guns blazing too like you owned the place when you've only been here 2 months, so I'm not too inclined to listen to either ^_^

Guns blazing? Me?

The hell are you talking about?

 

[DrMrLordX]

I still dont see that link for the 100.00 FX,

I think he is probably referring to the mercurial FX-8310:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=9494388

It has (to date) been almost-exclusively available through TigerDirect, so you pay whatever it is they decide to charge for it. It has been as low as ~$80 for people using the first-time shopper discount deal they have (or sometimes have?). As of this posting it is $112, and it has gone as high as $125-$130.

I was originally quite bullish on the CPU, but I have since discovered that it is slightly inferior to the 8320e in terms of performance/watt. I do not think it's coming from the same wafers. Regardless, it will hit 4.4-4.5 GHz reliably, with about the same voltage characteristics as what you can expect from an 8350, at a much lower price. It occupies a price point similar to the i3-4160/4170. Sadly, if you put it on any motherboard cheaper than the 970a-ud3p (or so) you're playing with fire. You can stick an i3 into a ~$40 H81 board and, as long as you're okay with the board's features, you'll do just fine.

Mind you, neither the i3 nor the FX are what any sane "high end" user would want, so . . .

 

[svenge]

Holy crap, calm down Francis.

He's just salty that his backlog of unsold/unsaleable AMD products are going to have to be sold while denominated in Drachmas soon, cutting even further into his business...

 

[BSim500]

he has a right to be offended given some of the things being said.

I have no personal "crusade" with AtenRa or anyone else here, nor called him any names or used insults (unlike himself in this very thread), nor have I been moderated or warned for anything at all (now or in the past), nor posted any "personal" information about anyone or commented on anything that isn't already publicly visible, nor intended any genuine offense. Yet another person got suspicious of a certain consistent perceived 'advocacy' style of posting (whether intentional or not) and asked what he did for a living, I answered (simply because he didn't), and the resulting upset seems to be more out of embarrassment than "abuse". There's zero personal "hate" towards him personally (or anyone else) at my end though, the guy who asked the question has had it answered, and I see no value in clogging up the thread 'arguing over arguing' anymore. If he ever visits the UK, I'll happily have a beer with him.

those are older games that don't matter

Even in new games that are multi-threaded in general, you'll often find some areas / levels / maps, etc, that are less well threaded than others. There's a whole lot more to "Single thread performance" than just "90's games that run on only one CPU core". And "high end" to me means both strong IPC / per core performance and more cores (ie, +6 core Intel's), not just the latter with a disclaimer stapled to it to "avoid certain games" due to the significant IPC disparity... Likewise, high end gamers are "allowed" to replay golden oldies too, and there's more than one person over on the GOG forums with a top-end HEDT CPU (for other non-gaming use) but who plays mostly 90's / early 2000's games.

power consumption is just an excuse

I remember when a mere 50-70w disparity between P4's & Athlon 64's was enough to get the former labelled "space heaters". Now suddenly disparities of over 100-150w "don't matter"? There seems to be some general persistent "selective memory" when it comes to "remembering" how AMD were treated when they were in front in the perf/watt area:-

May 2005 CPU review : "The Athlon 64 X2 4200+ also consumes less power, at the system level, than the Pentium D 840-just a little bit at idle (even without Cool'n'Quiet) but over 100W under load. That's a very potent combo, all told... Remarkably, our test system consumes the same amount of power under load with an X2 4800+ in its socket as it does with an Athlon 64 FX-55, even though the X2 is running two rendering threads and doing nearly twice the work. Amazing."
http://techreport.com/review/8295/amd-athlon-64-x2-processors/16

April 2011 GPU review : "Conclusion: Low power consumption, excellent performance per watt" for the HD6670 is number one on the plus list:-
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_6670/26.html

When AMD were in front, they were indeed praised for low power consumption & high perf/watt, (for both CPU's & GPU's) and reviews in general have been commenting on it & giving credit where due to both as a metric for well over a decade, so I guess one man's "excuse" is another's "goalpost relocation" since the roles have been reversed... :hmm: