Do Christians and Muslims believe in the SAME god?

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Muslim extremists dont need a reason to kill. Looked on the internet today and again the Sheite Pilgrims are being targeted by the Sunni's. Even branches of the same muslim religion are trying to kill each other. These people just use religion as an excuse to kill other people. It is all about control and power. It has nothing to do with religion.

Religion is about control and power.

This appears to be especially true in Islam given that you have to pray 5 times a day, and then there's also the Ramadan with its fasting and rules that keeps you weak and small.

It would seem that the mohamed really wanted to outdo the jews with their 3 daily prayers and a single day of fasting.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in the same "God". There's nothing to debate about that.

Funny, because millions of Christians would disagree with you. But if you say so, that settles it I guess.

...and every one of them would be wrong in saying so.

Lol, just cause you read it on t3h wiki or internetz doesnt make it truth.

weak evasion

You are right, your post is. It provides no room for discussion. Try proving your point rather than saying "it just is"

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in the same "God". There's nothing to debate about that.

Funny, because millions of Christians would disagree with you. But if you say so, that settles it I guess.

...and every one of them would be wrong in saying so.

Lol, just cause you read it on t3h wiki or internetz doesnt make it truth.

weak evasion

You are right, your post is. It provides no room for discussion. Try proving your point rather than saying "it just is"

How about the fact that Muhammad believed in Jesus?

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
How about the fact that Muhammad believed in Jesus?

Thats not a fact at all. Mohammed did not believe Jesus was the Son of God.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: sandorski
Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in the same "God". There's nothing to debate about that.

Funny, because millions of Christians would disagree with you. But if you say so, that settles it I guess.

...and every one of them would be wrong in saying so.

Lol, just cause you read it on t3h wiki or internetz doesnt make it truth.

weak evasion

You are right, your post is. It provides no room for discussion. Try proving your point rather than saying "it just is"

There is no discussion. Jews believe in a "God", Christians claim to also believe in that "God", Muslims also claim to believe in that "God". Seems to me that the only group with the possible argument that they're not the same is the Jews. Christians and Muslims are the ones who have deviated from the original concept. Can one Deviant judge another Deviant?

All 3 Religions make compelling claims to that "God". The "God" of Revelations, for eg, is very much like the type of "God" Muslims accept. That being a Judgemental "God" who rules with an iron fist. Read Revelations, you'll see that the (Christian)period of Grace ends with the Tribulation(Second Return). That change is very much the same as the change of the Old Testament "God" and New Testament "God".

The "God" of Abraham is the "God" that Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in. As mentioned by others, the difference is not in "Gods", it is in how the Religions perceive "God".

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
As an island can be reached by many bridges, God can be reached by many religions. The bridges are all different, but the island is the same. Sadly, what the religious worship is the bridge and not God. This is why they argue. Those who arrive at the island no longer care about the bridge. Those on the island are the Lovers, the people of heart.

Religion might be considered a bridge, but that's not the same as the path. It can be likened to a bathhouse on the way to the path, where you wash your outside to appear better, and hopefully to be better. On the path, you wash your inside and you don't care about the outside other than not wishing to appear better than you are. On the way to the path, you have faith, which wavers. On the path itself, you have conviction, and there's no going back.

There are many paths and turns of phrases describing paths. The path given by Jesus is clearly the path of love. This is a universal path, and given to all. I'm not sure about the path given by Mohammad, but it's a bit different, and might be better described as a path of worship and devotion to an impersonal transcendent God. It's a real shame that so many centuries later, we don't understand this clearly, and that the attitude of love and love itself is not extended to those following different paths.

 

[Moonbeam]

The Sufi Poet Rumi:

Some Kiss We Want



There is some kiss we want with

our whole lives, the touch of

spirit on the body. Seawater

begs the pearl to break its shell.

And the lily, how passionately

it needs some wild darling! At

night, I open the window and ask

the moon to come and press its

face against mine. Breathe into

me. Close the language- door and

open the love window. The moon

won't use the door, only the window.



Translator: Coleman Barks

 

[Vic]

Ah, Rumi is good stuff. I have that book.

Allah is Arabic for God. Do the Spanish-speaking worship a different God because they call Him Dios? That is literally how silly this argument is.

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: blackllotus
How about the fact that Muhammad believed in Jesus?

Thats not a fact at all. Mohammed did not believe Jesus was the Son of God.

No, Mohammed didn't believe in the divinity in Christ, i.e. that Jesus was God Himself. Which is fine, because neither did Jesus. That nonsense was invented at the Council of Nicea.

 

[Keblerelf04]

The "God" of Abraham is the "God" that Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in. As mentioned by others, the difference is not in "Gods", it is in how the Religions perceive "God".

I agree with this, but I disagree with the supposed millions of people who see Jesus as God's human form, even in my own church there are some people who see it this way. 4 words can sum up what the trinity really means "Father, Son, Holy Spirit". Now if you can show me someone who is their own father other than southern backwater jokes etc, maybe I'll give you some credit that they are not different entities.I don't want to hear the magical he can be two places at once thing, I'm sure god can do what he/she wants when they want, but its generally assumed god created Jesus his firstborn only son and Jesus was the God referred to as the one who created the world,angels etc. From that point Jesus gave up his place in heaven to be a mortal man and God sent him down as a seed in Mary's virginal pregnancy, it's not like god created him in that moment just to die for our sins, he was there way before we were. That's how I believe anyways, everyone is going to have a different opinion


As far as the OP's question it is the same God, the god of Abraham.

Did you ever do that thing in school where someone is told something at the beginning of the line and it is whispered down the line till the very end of the class, and its always at least a little different from what it started at and is usually quite a bit different, That is why there are differences in the way the books are written, with the exception of how Jesus is perceived. In the end though it is up to you to decide how you actually believe so if you (OP) think he is the same god after seeing all the differing opinions listed here and elsewhere then that is what he is to you. It is all an Ideal, God is real don't get me wrong, but you have to create your own path to see him for what he really is to you.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: blackllotus
How about the fact that Muhammad believed in Jesus?

Thats not a fact at all. Mohammed did not believe Jesus was the Son of God.

Where in his statement does blackllotus say that Mohammed believed Jesus was the son of God? Could you point it out to me, pelase? I must have difficulty reading today...

 

[imported_dna]

Define "believed", and then this discussion can move on 🙂

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
My theology prof says Allah is not God, even though Islam and Christianity overlap in a lot of places.

According to him, the god of Islam, Allah, is described and thought about very differently than God, the Christian god. For example, in the Muslim creation account, Allah brings all the animals to Adam and tells him their names. In the Christian creation account, God brings all the animals to Adam and lets Adam name them. It may be a subtle so-what difference, but it implies that Allah is a god that shows you everything then tells you what to do, while God is a god that shows you everything then asks you what you will do. That's important because it's the difference between orders being handed down, and the possibility for two-way communication.

Unfortunately that's the only example he's given so far, and this is my first theology class so I really don't know too much about it myself.

Was that same God of two-way communication the one who destroyed the tower of Babel?

Destroyed what? Babel was where the languages were confused; before babel everyone had the same language, then people decided they were so great and powerful that they'd just build a tower to heaven and go up there, so God confused them. They just gave up on babel once their languages were confused, there's no mention of it being destroyed.

Anyway, God isn't a flat personality, he's a three-dimensional person and you can't make wide-ranging conclusions off of one or two individual pieces of data. That would be akin to saying your dad doesn't love you because he spanked and sent you to your room when you were a kid, since no loving parent would ever want their kid to hurt. Just because God's goal is communication and reconsiliation doesn't mean he's bound to do nothing but continually reach out all the time.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
My theology prof says Allah is not God, even though Islam and Christianity overlap in a lot of places.

According to him, the god of Islam, Allah, is described and thought about very differently than God, the Christian god. For example, in the Muslim creation account, Allah brings all the animals to Adam and tells him their names. In the Christian creation account, God brings all the animals to Adam and lets Adam name them. It may be a subtle so-what difference, but it implies that Allah is a god that shows you everything then tells you what to do, while God is a god that shows you everything then asks you what you will do. That's important because it's the difference between orders being handed down, and the possibility for two-way communication.

Unfortunately that's the only example he's given so far, and this is my first theology class so I really don't know too much about it myself.

Was that same God of two-way communication the one who destroyed the tower of Babel?

Destroyed what? Babel was where the languages were confused; before babel everyone had the same language, then people decided they were so great and powerful that they'd just build a tower to heaven and go up there, so God confused them. They just gave up on babel once their languages were confused, there's no mention of it being destroyed.

Anyway, God isn't a flat personality, he's a three-dimensional person and you can't make wide-ranging conclusions off of one or two individual pieces of data. That would be akin to saying your dad doesn't love you because he spanked and sent you to your room when you were a kid, since no loving parent would ever want their kid to hurt. Just because God's goal is communication and reconsiliation doesn't mean he's bound to do nothing but continually reach out all the time.

That's what I mean by destroying. He ended the effort by destroying their ability to communicate, this God you claimed that prises communication. And don't even get me started on whether telling somebody the name of an animal is more top-down than is forcing everybody on earth to speak a different language. You are, in short, engaged in a profound case of rationalization that is utter rubbish. But one has to admire the fact that one in a first semester theology class is already able to speak for God on His parenting style. 😉

 

[johnnobts]

The God of Abraham is the God of Judaism and Christianity. He is a God who has revealed Himself via special revelation over the ages in the Holy Scripture. This is what makes the Bible unique, in that it was inspired by God, or "God-breathed" 2 Tim. 3:16-17. For this reason Scripture alone is sufficient for salvation.

Islam does not worship the God of Abraham. Some Muslims today of Middle Eastern descent trace their roots back to Abraham and his son Ishmael, or perhaps also Isaac's son, Esau, but these were not God's chosen line. They did not fall under the purview of God's Abrahamic covenant established in Genesis 12, where God told Abraham, "All the nations of the earth will be blessed through you." Abraham is special b/c his lineage became the seed of salvation which culminated in the birth of Christ.

Islam is an amalgamation of middle eastern paganism combined with little understanding of Judaism and Christianity mixed it. They still have strong elements of idolatry, including kissing the rock while on pilgrimage. the God of Islam is an idolotrous construct, a hollow image of the true living God. the God of Islam is devoid of the perfect nature of God, the perfect love and perfect righteousness of God. The God of Islam is not a God of faithfulness and mercy. There is no salvation by grace through faith in their God. i believe Mohammad was right in his assertion that it was a demon speaking to him and giving him a word, not an angel. It was his wife who convinced him to listen to the "angel."

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: johnnobts
The God of Abraham is the God of Judaism and Christianity. He is a God who has revealed Himself via special revelation over the ages in the Holy Scripture. This is what makes the Bible unique, in that it was inspired by God, or "God-breathed" 2 Tim. 3:16-17. For this reason Scripture alone is sufficient for salvation.

Islam does not worship the God of Abraham. Some Muslims today of Middle Eastern descent trace their roots back to Abraham and his son Ishmael, or perhaps also Isaac's son, Esau, but these were not God's chosen line. They did not fall under the purview of God's Abrahamic covenant established in Genesis 12, where God told Abraham, "All the nations of the earth will be blessed through you." Abraham is special b/c his lineage became the seed of salvation which culminated in the birth of Christ.

Islam is an amalgamation of middle eastern paganism combined with little understanding of Judaism and Christianity mixed it. They still have strong elements of idolatry, including kissing the rock while on pilgrimage. the God of Islam is an idolotrous construct, a hollow image of the true living God. the God of Islam is devoid of the perfect nature of God, the perfect love and perfect righteousness of God. The God of Islam is not a God of faithfulness and mercy. There is no salvation by grace through faith in their God. i believe Mohammad was right in his assertion that it was a demon speaking to him and giving him a word, not an angel. It was his wife who convinced him to listen to the "angel."

I have never understood why people use the internet to publish their bigotry and ignorance with authority. No one here is interested in the lies your faith-healing Bible Belt preacher told you about Islam.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
My theology prof says Allah is not God, even though Islam and Christianity overlap in a lot of places.

According to him, the god of Islam, Allah, is described and thought about very differently than God, the Christian god. For example, in the Muslim creation account, Allah brings all the animals to Adam and tells him their names. In the Christian creation account, God brings all the animals to Adam and lets Adam name them. It may be a subtle so-what difference, but it implies that Allah is a god that shows you everything then tells you what to do, while God is a god that shows you everything then asks you what you will do. That's important because it's the difference between orders being handed down, and the possibility for two-way communication.

Unfortunately that's the only example he's given so far, and this is my first theology class so I really don't know too much about it myself.

Was that same God of two-way communication the one who destroyed the tower of Babel?

Destroyed what? Babel was where the languages were confused; before babel everyone had the same language, then people decided they were so great and powerful that they'd just build a tower to heaven and go up there, so God confused them. They just gave up on babel once their languages were confused, there's no mention of it being destroyed.

Anyway, God isn't a flat personality, he's a three-dimensional person and you can't make wide-ranging conclusions off of one or two individual pieces of data. That would be akin to saying your dad doesn't love you because he spanked and sent you to your room when you were a kid, since no loving parent would ever want their kid to hurt. Just because God's goal is communication and reconsiliation doesn't mean he's bound to do nothing but continually reach out all the time.

That's what I mean by destroying. He ended the effort by destroying their ability to communicate, this God you claimed that prises communication. And don't even get me started on whether telling somebody the name of an animal is more top-down than is forcing everybody on earth to speak a different language. You are, in short, engaged in a profound case of rationalization that is utter rubbish. But one has to admire the fact that one in a first semester theology class is already able to speak for God on His parenting style. 😉

Actually it's a second-semester course, and half the class is made of upperclassmen 😉

When we say that God prizes communication, we mean God-human communication. Yeah of course human-human communication is great too, but the goal isn't just to talk and hang out and do whatever. Throughout the Bible, God's plan is to bring people back to him after they rejected him (the Fall in the Garden of Eden). You can't reconcile yourself to someone that you never have communication with, that's what I was originally getting at. God still has the ability to communicate with everyone, regardless of their native language, so Babel didn't complicate things for him. Babel complicated things for people; God did it because the people were so prideful that they thought they could build a tower to heaven and challenge God. It's not like God planned for us to have all these languages, but basically God just had to show us who's boss.

Cliffs:
Changing around people's languages wasn't something that took away from people's free will; we can still choose to ignore God. Changing the languages was God's way of humbling a bunch of people so prideful they thought they could build a tower to heaven and challenge God.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: johnnobts
The God of Abraham is the God of Judaism and Christianity. He is a God who has revealed Himself via special revelation over the ages in the Holy Scripture. This is what makes the Bible unique, in that it was inspired by God, or "God-breathed" 2 Tim. 3:16-17. For this reason Scripture alone is sufficient for salvation.

Islam does not worship the God of Abraham. Some Muslims today of Middle Eastern descent trace their roots back to Abraham and his son Ishmael, or perhaps also Isaac's son, Esau, but these were not God's chosen line. They did not fall under the purview of God's Abrahamic covenant established in Genesis 12, where God told Abraham, "All the nations of the earth will be blessed through you." Abraham is special b/c his lineage became the seed of salvation which culminated in the birth of Christ.

Islam is an amalgamation of middle eastern paganism combined with little understanding of Judaism and Christianity mixed it. They still have strong elements of idolatry, including kissing the rock while on pilgrimage. the God of Islam is an idolotrous construct, a hollow image of the true living God. the God of Islam is devoid of the perfect nature of God, the perfect love and perfect righteousness of God. The God of Islam is not a God of faithfulness and mercy. There is no salvation by grace through faith in their God. i believe Mohammad was right in his assertion that it was a demon speaking to him and giving him a word, not an angel. It was his wife who convinced him to listen to the "angel."

I have never understood why people use the internet to publish their bigotry and ignorance with authority. No one here is interested in the lies your faith-healing Bible Belt preacher told you about Islam.

Well I won't go as far as Vic, but you definitely could've said that in a better way.

 

[Ruptga]

whoops, doublepost

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: johnnobts
The God of Abraham is the God of Judaism and Christianity. He is a God who has revealed Himself via special revelation over the ages in the Holy Scripture. This is what makes the Bible unique, in that it was inspired by God, or "God-breathed" 2 Tim. 3:16-17. For this reason Scripture alone is sufficient for salvation.

Islam does not worship the God of Abraham. Some Muslims today of Middle Eastern descent trace their roots back to Abraham and his son Ishmael, or perhaps also Isaac's son, Esau, but these were not God's chosen line. They did not fall under the purview of God's Abrahamic covenant established in Genesis 12, where God told Abraham, "All the nations of the earth will be blessed through you." Abraham is special b/c his lineage became the seed of salvation which culminated in the birth of Christ.

Islam is an amalgamation of middle eastern paganism combined with little understanding of Judaism and Christianity mixed it. They still have strong elements of idolatry, including kissing the rock while on pilgrimage. the God of Islam is an idolotrous construct, a hollow image of the true living God. the God of Islam is devoid of the perfect nature of God, the perfect love and perfect righteousness of God. The God of Islam is not a God of faithfulness and mercy. There is no salvation by grace through faith in their God. i believe Mohammad was right in his assertion that it was a demon speaking to him and giving him a word, not an angel. It was his wife who convinced him to listen to the "angel."

I have never understood why people use the internet to publish their bigotry and ignorance with authority. No one here is interested in the lies your faith-healing Bible Belt preacher told you about Islam.

Well I won't go as far as Vic, but you definitely could've said that in a better way.

I don't follow you. Nothing johnnobts said was factually accurate.

 

[JS80]

Mohamed was a false prophet

 

[1EZduzit]

It seems to me that one man's God is another man's monster and whatever religion these two men happen to be has nothing to do with anything. They could both be Protestants, Catholics, or Muslims.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: johnnobts
The God of Abraham is the God of Judaism and Christianity. He is a God who has revealed Himself via special revelation over the ages in the Holy Scripture. This is what makes the Bible unique, in that it was inspired by God, or "God-breathed" 2 Tim. 3:16-17. For this reason Scripture alone is sufficient for salvation.

Islam does not worship the God of Abraham. Some Muslims today of Middle Eastern descent trace their roots back to Abraham and his son Ishmael, or perhaps also Isaac's son, Esau, but these were not God's chosen line. They did not fall under the purview of God's Abrahamic covenant established in Genesis 12, where God told Abraham, "All the nations of the earth will be blessed through you." Abraham is special b/c his lineage became the seed of salvation which culminated in the birth of Christ.

Islam is an amalgamation of middle eastern paganism combined with little understanding of Judaism and Christianity mixed it. They still have strong elements of idolatry, including kissing the rock while on pilgrimage. the God of Islam is an idolotrous construct, a hollow image of the true living God. the God of Islam is devoid of the perfect nature of God, the perfect love and perfect righteousness of God. The God of Islam is not a God of faithfulness and mercy. There is no salvation by grace through faith in their God. i believe Mohammad was right in his assertion that it was a demon speaking to him and giving him a word, not an angel. It was his wife who convinced him to listen to the "angel."

I have never understood why people use the internet to publish their bigotry and ignorance with authority. No one here is interested in the lies your faith-healing Bible Belt preacher told you about Islam.

Maybe the wife failed to warn them that the angel they thought they were listening to is really a demon.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
My theology prof says Allah is not God, even though Islam and Christianity overlap in a lot of places.

According to him, the god of Islam, Allah, is described and thought about very differently than God, the Christian god. For example, in the Muslim creation account, Allah brings all the animals to Adam and tells him their names. In the Christian creation account, God brings all the animals to Adam and lets Adam name them. It may be a subtle so-what difference, but it implies that Allah is a god that shows you everything then tells you what to do, while God is a god that shows you everything then asks you what you will do. That's important because it's the difference between orders being handed down, and the possibility for two-way communication.

Unfortunately that's the only example he's given so far, and this is my first theology class so I really don't know too much about it myself.

Was that same God of two-way communication the one who destroyed the tower of Babel?

Destroyed what? Babel was where the languages were confused; before babel everyone had the same language, then people decided they were so great and powerful that they'd just build a tower to heaven and go up there, so God confused them. They just gave up on babel once their languages were confused, there's no mention of it being destroyed.

Anyway, God isn't a flat personality, he's a three-dimensional person and you can't make wide-ranging conclusions off of one or two individual pieces of data. That would be akin to saying your dad doesn't love you because he spanked and sent you to your room when you were a kid, since no loving parent would ever want their kid to hurt. Just because God's goal is communication and reconsiliation doesn't mean he's bound to do nothing but continually reach out all the time.

That's what I mean by destroying. He ended the effort by destroying their ability to communicate, this God you claimed that prises communication. And don't even get me started on whether telling somebody the name of an animal is more top-down than is forcing everybody on earth to speak a different language. You are, in short, engaged in a profound case of rationalization that is utter rubbish. But one has to admire the fact that one in a first semester theology class is already able to speak for God on His parenting style. 😉

Actually it's a second-semester course, and half the class is made of upperclassmen 😉

When we say that God prizes communication, we mean God-human communication. Yeah of course human-human communication is great too, but the goal isn't just to talk and hang out and do whatever. Throughout the Bible, God's plan is to bring people back to him after they rejected him (the Fall in the Garden of Eden). You can't reconcile yourself to someone that you never have communication with, that's what I was originally getting at. God still has the ability to communicate with everyone, regardless of their native language, so Babel didn't complicate things for him. Babel complicated things for people; God did it because the people were so prideful that they thought they could build a tower to heaven and challenge God. It's not like God planned for us to have all these languages, but basically God just had to show us who's boss.

Cliffs:
Changing around people's languages wasn't something that took away from people's free will; we can still choose to ignore God. Changing the languages was God's way of humbling a bunch of people so prideful they thought they could build a tower to heaven and challenge God.

If God wanted to show who's boss he could have just named the animals Himself. Maybe what makes people uppity is when they think they get to name things themselves.

 

[Zebo]

One god says Jews are chosen peoples..

The other says Jews are the enemy of Allah.

Doesn't sound like the same God.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Zebo
One god says Jews are chosen peoples..

The other says Jews are the enemy of Allah.

Doesn't sound like the same God.

wrong