Do Christians and Muslims believe in the SAME god?

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johnnobts

Golden Member
Jun 26, 2005
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Jesus states unequivocally that he is the only way to God (John 14:6). He tells us that "wide is the gate, and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many go through it. But small is the gate, and narrow is the road that leads to eternal life and few find it." universalism is not the one narrow road, its the broad one.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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81
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Zebo
One god says Jews are chosen peoples..

The other says Jews are the enemy of Allah.

Doesn't sound like the same God.

wrong

Yea sure read it all from horses mouth unless you are an Islamic cleric too "wrong" will not surfice.

I especially like the part about Islamic conquest (religion of peace:))

Al-Qarni: "At any rate, if we return to our discussion of the heart of the matter? First of all, we must realize that Allah obligated us to disseminate this religion all over the globe. And first, it should be spread through outreach and calling people to Allah's word, through pleasing words, gently, and through good deeds. Through letting people hear Allah's words and showing them Islam. However, if we run up against someone who opposes this path and attempts to obstruct the spread of the upright religion and the light, and to obstruct their reaching others ? in this case it is a duty to fight such a person. And Allah said: 'Fight them until there is no more strife and Allah's religion reigns supreme.'

"We don't agree with those who disavow this completely and say that the religion [of Islam] doesn't use the sword. No. Islam uses the sword when there is no other alternative. Therefore wisdom, as the religious authorities say, consists in utilizing each thing in its proper place. If there is need for the sword, then it is wise to use the sword, and if the occasion requires kind words and outreach, then it is wise to utilize them."
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
You got it, Zebo. And Falwell, Robertson & Co. represent not only all that is Christianity, but all that is North American too.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,226
5,803
126
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Zebo
One god says Jews are chosen peoples..

The other says Jews are the enemy of Allah.

Doesn't sound like the same God.

wrong

Yea sure read it all from horses mouth unless you are an Islamic cleric too "wrong" will not surfice.

I especially like the part about Islamic conquest (religion of peace:))

Al-Qarni: "At any rate, if we return to our discussion of the heart of the matter? First of all, we must realize that Allah obligated us to disseminate this religion all over the globe. And first, it should be spread through outreach and calling people to Allah's word, through pleasing words, gently, and through good deeds. Through letting people hear Allah's words and showing them Islam. However, if we run up against someone who opposes this path and attempts to obstruct the spread of the upright religion and the light, and to obstruct their reaching others ? in this case it is a duty to fight such a person. And Allah said: 'Fight them until there is no more strife and Allah's religion reigns supreme.'

"We don't agree with those who disavow this completely and say that the religion [of Islam] doesn't use the sword. No. Islam uses the sword when there is no other alternative. Therefore wisdom, as the religious authorities say, consists in utilizing each thing in its proper place. If there is need for the sword, then it is wise to use the sword, and if the occasion requires kind words and outreach, then it is wise to utilize them."

The Koran states otherwise. What you are doing here is using the words of one person to define a whole religion. It would be like me using Mein Kempf to define Christianity.

You're statement is wrong.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Originally posted by: johnnobts
Jesus states unequivocally that he is the only way to God (John 14:6). He tells us that "wide is the gate, and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many go through it. But small is the gate, and narrow is the road that leads to eternal life and few find it." universalism is not the one narrow road, its the broad one.

You're mixing your quotes there. What you quoted was (and seriously, I'm not even looking this up right now but quoting from memory) Matthew 7:13-14 while John 14:6 is "I am the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me."

Now who are you to tell Jesus who He accepts and who he does not? He also says in John 14 that "In my Father's house there are many rooms." Which the Quran agrees with (except IIRC it calls them "gates").
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Zebo
One god says Jews are chosen peoples..

The other says Jews are the enemy of Allah.

Doesn't sound like the same God.

wrong

Yea sure read it all from horses mouth unless you are an Islamic cleric too "wrong" will not surfice.

I especially like the part about Islamic conquest (religion of peace:))

Al-Qarni: "At any rate, if we return to our discussion of the heart of the matter? First of all, we must realize that Allah obligated us to disseminate this religion all over the globe. And first, it should be spread through outreach and calling people to Allah's word, through pleasing words, gently, and through good deeds. Through letting people hear Allah's words and showing them Islam. However, if we run up against someone who opposes this path and attempts to obstruct the spread of the upright religion and the light, and to obstruct their reaching others ? in this case it is a duty to fight such a person. And Allah said: 'Fight them until there is no more strife and Allah's religion reigns supreme.'

"We don't agree with those who disavow this completely and say that the religion [of Islam] doesn't use the sword. No. Islam uses the sword when there is no other alternative. Therefore wisdom, as the religious authorities say, consists in utilizing each thing in its proper place. If there is need for the sword, then it is wise to use the sword, and if the occasion requires kind words and outreach, then it is wise to utilize them."

The Koran states otherwise. What you are doing here is using the words of one person to define a whole religion. It would be like me using Mein Kempf to define Christianity.

You're statement is wrong.

Where? Chapter and verse please. Or better yet find me one, just a single Islamic Cleric that says Jews are gods chosen as well.

While you're broswing the Qu'ran at USC or quraonline looking for what you will not find, take a look at the part about how Allah stamping wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. 002:061

Jews are further cursed by Allah in 005:013

Allah turned Jews into apes and called Jews greediest of all humankind. 002:065-066 and 002:096

Scholar, Qu'ran the trifecta should come when visiting Allahs followers violence against Jews for 1350 years.
 

johnnobts

Golden Member
Jun 26, 2005
1,105
0
71
didn't misquote. john 14:6 is "i am the way, the truth, and the life..." i just didn't give reference to matt. 7 about the narrow gate.

yes, John 14:2 jesus tells his disciples, "In my Father's house are many rooms." Rooms for the children of God to dwell, i.e. those who have found the way to the Father through Christ (John 14 in context, Jesus is the way to the Father).
 

johnnobts

Golden Member
Jun 26, 2005
1,105
0
71
Now who are you to tell Jesus who He accepts and who he does not? He also says in John 14 that "In my Father's house there are many rooms." Which the Quran agrees with (except IIRC it calls them "gates").

Who does Jesus accept? Easy answer, see John 8:31-36:

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." 33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can you say, 'You will be made free'?" 34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Those who follow Christ are his disciples. Those who have been set free from the bondage and penalty of sin and adopted into the family through God's Son.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,238
6,338
126
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Zebo
One god says Jews are chosen peoples..

The other says Jews are the enemy of Allah.

Doesn't sound like the same God.

wrong

Well, it does sound like the same kind of people.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
What is sin? Who are Christ's followers? Those who vainly invoke His Name?

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." -- Matthew 7:21

Nope, not them.

Those who do works in His Name?

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" -- Matthew 7:22-23

Nope, not them either.

Hmm... what about these?

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." -- Matthew 7:7-14

Yep. Them.
 

johnnobts

Golden Member
Jun 26, 2005
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Vic, we could do this all night. Who has eternal life according to Jesus? See John 6:54. Its those who share in his sacrifice:

NKJ John 6:54 "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
 

johnnobts

Golden Member
Jun 26, 2005
1,105
0
71
It was after Jesus said this, that many of the crowds left him. separates real belief (in Jesus and his atoning work) from merely belief in the spectacular.

John 6:66 "From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more."
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,238
6,338
126
Originally posted by: johnnobts
It was after Jesus said this, that many of the crowds left him. separates real belief (in Jesus and his atoning work) from merely belief in the spectacular.

John 6:66 "From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more."

But don't you see? Belief in his atoning work is not the same as sharing his sacrifice. To share his sacrifice you personally have to die on the cross, you have to experience the death of your ego. THAT is why, in my opinion, the gate is narrow and few pass over. Neither the faithful nor rejectors want to go through that. This is why faith is its own reward because we pride ourselves in a belief we have not actually done. I seem to remember that Jesus was abandoned by God on the cross. Doesn't that tell you that to enter the kingdom of heaven you have to first lose all hope and all faith? You have to leave behind everything you love, let go of all you believe, no? Seems to me the door of heaven will open only to those who completely disappear in their suffering.

I think people would rather believe anything than this. The truth, in my opinion, looks like the Devil.
 

johnnobts

Golden Member
Jun 26, 2005
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71
NKJ Hebrews 10:12 "But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,"

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,238
6,338
126
Originally posted by: johnnobts
NKJ Hebrews 10:12 "But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,"

That's what I said yet I feel you might think it means something else. If so why not elaborate....
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,134
223
106
god only helps those who help themselves...


That's all you need to know!

BTW, don't care what faith you believe in... The way I heard it... Weather you were a Muslim, Buddhist, Catholic...Etc...etc.... According to a real christrain nut job I use to work with only the TRUE christain was gonna go to heaven. Even tho they believed in the same god. Hahaha Hmmm, I think we should have another war....!!!!

I'm going to heaven and I prefer NOT to go to the one that christains are going to....



 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
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A lady named Javada once asked me if I believe in God. I had answered something to the effect of yes. She smiled and said * Ah good good, you follow the One God*
Yes she was Muslim and apparently was lying to me ;)
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
0
0
John, you can quote from the Bible all day and you still won't get anywhere. All you will be able to do is show that Muslims don't believe the same thing as Christians regarding Christ, which is irrelevant. They both believe that Jesus was a prophet. Just because they don't believe the exact same things regarding Jesus and God does not suddenly mean that they believe in different gods.

I don't even know why this debate is still going on. Read any history book on Muhammad and you will find that he believed in the Christian god (also called Allah).
 

Madwand1

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2006
3,309
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Rumi, Quatrain 745

http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/rub-0745.html

Beware: don't say, "There aren't any [real] travellers on the Way,"
(Or), "There aren't any who are Jesus-like and traceless."
Since you aren't an intimate of secrets,
You have been thinking that others are not as well.

Rumi, Quatrain 996
Trans, Jonathan Starr

The secret Heart-Ravisher has been exposed!
I have found traces of his footsteps all around.

If He is not God, He is the one sent by God.

O musician of my soul,
play His song
play His song with every breath
 

johnnobts

Golden Member
Jun 26, 2005
1,105
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71
the Christian God necessarily includes the person Jesus Christ. Muslims deny Christ as divine, and therefore do not worship the God of the Bible.

Its not irrelevant for me to point out the words of Christ that point to his identity as the co-eternal Son of God.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
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Muslims believe God is a force. God has no form.
Christians believe God is..? a force? man?

Muslims believe in Jesus, but they believe a) he was a prophet not the son of God b) he never died, he ascended to Heaven
Christians believe he was the son of God and died.

 

johnnobts

Golden Member
Jun 26, 2005
1,105
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71
we believe he is God's Son who came to this earth in the flesh, born of a virgin. he lived a sinless life. he died on the cross as a substitute for our sin, a perfect sacrifice. he was buried in the tomb, and 3 days later he rose from the dead.

muslims also agree jesus was born of a virgin and that he was sinless and did miracles. they deny his death and resurrection, as well as his saving work, not to mention his deity.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,586
50,771
136
Originally posted by: johnnobts
the Christian God necessarily includes the person Jesus Christ. Muslims deny Christ as divine, and therefore do not worship the God of the Bible.

Its not irrelevant for me to point out the words of Christ that point to his identity as the co-eternal Son of God.

Look man, every religion says that the other people got it wrong. Regardless of what christians think, they are worshipping the same god. Christians worship the god of Abraham as described in the old testament, they just think he gets a bit of a personality makeover for the new one. Same deal with muslims. They worship the god of the old testament, who also tends to change his mind on a few things after mohammad stops by. They both (along with their good friends the jews) worship the god of the old testament.

Why do you care if other people are worshipping the same god? It's simply a fact. cant everyone just accept that the other 2 branches of their same religion are going to hell for slightly different reasons, but due to the wrath of the same guy?

EDIT: Oh also, jews don't believe in the divinity of christ either, does this mean that they don't worship the god of the bible? This creates a lot of problems... as jesus was a jew, and would therefore not be worshipping...the...himself...uhmm... I don't know. That would be a tricky one though.