Jesus states unequivocally that he is the only way to God (John 14:6). He tells us that "wide is the gate, and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many go through it. But small is the gate, and narrow is the road that leads to eternal life and few find it." universalism is not the one narrow road, its the broad one.
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Do Christians and Muslims believe in the SAME god?
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Zebo
Elite Member
Yea sure read it all from horses mouth unless you are an Islamic cleric too "wrong" will not surfice.
I especially like the part about Islamic conquest (religion of peace🙂)
Vic
Elite Member
You're mixing your quotes there. What you quoted was (and seriously, I'm not even looking this up right now but quoting from memory) Matthew 7:13-14 while John 14:6 is "I am the way and the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me."
Now who are you to tell Jesus who He accepts and who he does not? He also says in John 14 that "In my Father's house there are many rooms." Which the Quran agrees with (except IIRC it calls them "gates").
Zebo
Elite Member
Where? Chapter and verse please. Or better yet find me one, just a single Islamic Cleric that says Jews are gods chosen as well.
While you're broswing the Qu'ran at USC or quraonline looking for what you will not find, take a look at the part about how Allah stamping wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. 002:061
Jews are further cursed by Allah in 005:013
Allah turned Jews into apes and called Jews greediest of all humankind. 002:065-066 and 002:096
Scholar, Qu'ran the trifecta should come when visiting Allahs followers violence against Jews for 1350 years.
didn't misquote. john 14:6 is "i am the way, the truth, and the life..." i just didn't give reference to matt. 7 about the narrow gate.
yes, John 14:2 jesus tells his disciples, "In my Father's house are many rooms." Rooms for the children of God to dwell, i.e. those who have found the way to the Father through Christ (John 14 in context, Jesus is the way to the Father).
yes, John 14:2 jesus tells his disciples, "In my Father's house are many rooms." Rooms for the children of God to dwell, i.e. those who have found the way to the Father through Christ (John 14 in context, Jesus is the way to the Father).
Now who are you to tell Jesus who He accepts and who he does not? He also says in John 14 that "In my Father's house there are many rooms." Which the Quran agrees with (except IIRC it calls them "gates").
Who does Jesus accept? Easy answer, see John 8:31-36:
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." 33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can you say, 'You will be made free'?" 34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
Those who follow Christ are his disciples. Those who have been set free from the bondage and penalty of sin and adopted into the family through God's Son.
Who does Jesus accept? Easy answer, see John 8:31-36:
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." 33 They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can you say, 'You will be made free'?" 34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
Those who follow Christ are his disciples. Those who have been set free from the bondage and penalty of sin and adopted into the family through God's Son.
Vic
Elite Member
What is sin? Who are Christ's followers? Those who vainly invoke His Name?
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." -- Matthew 7:21
Nope, not them.
Those who do works in His Name?
"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" -- Matthew 7:22-23
Nope, not them either.
Hmm... what about these?
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." -- Matthew 7:7-14
Yep. Them.
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." -- Matthew 7:21
Nope, not them.
Those who do works in His Name?
"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" -- Matthew 7:22-23
Nope, not them either.
Hmm... what about these?
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." -- Matthew 7:7-14
Yep. Them.
But don't you see? Belief in his atoning work is not the same as sharing his sacrifice. To share his sacrifice you personally have to die on the cross, you have to experience the death of your ego. THAT is why, in my opinion, the gate is narrow and few pass over. Neither the faithful nor rejectors want to go through that. This is why faith is its own reward because we pride ourselves in a belief we have not actually done. I seem to remember that Jesus was abandoned by God on the cross. Doesn't that tell you that to enter the kingdom of heaven you have to first lose all hope and all faith? You have to leave behind everything you love, let go of all you believe, no? Seems to me the door of heaven will open only to those who completely disappear in their suffering.
I think people would rather believe anything than this. The truth, in my opinion, looks like the Devil.
ericlp
Diamond Member
god only helps those who help themselves...
That's all you need to know!
BTW, don't care what faith you believe in... The way I heard it... Weather you were a Muslim, Buddhist, Catholic...Etc...etc.... According to a real christrain nut job I use to work with only the TRUE christain was gonna go to heaven. Even tho they believed in the same god. Hahaha Hmmm, I think we should have another war....!!!!
I'm going to heaven and I prefer NOT to go to the one that christains are going to....
That's all you need to know!
BTW, don't care what faith you believe in... The way I heard it... Weather you were a Muslim, Buddhist, Catholic...Etc...etc.... According to a real christrain nut job I use to work with only the TRUE christain was gonna go to heaven. Even tho they believed in the same god. Hahaha Hmmm, I think we should have another war....!!!!
I'm going to heaven and I prefer NOT to go to the one that christains are going to....
Orignal Earl
Diamond Member
A lady named Javada once asked me if I believe in God. I had answered something to the effect of yes. She smiled and said * Ah good good, you follow the One God*
Yes she was Muslim and apparently was lying to me 😉
Yes she was Muslim and apparently was lying to me 😉
blackllotus
Golden Member
John, you can quote from the Bible all day and you still won't get anywhere. All you will be able to do is show that Muslims don't believe the same thing as Christians regarding Christ, which is irrelevant. They both believe that Jesus was a prophet. Just because they don't believe the exact same things regarding Jesus and God does not suddenly mean that they believe in different gods.
I don't even know why this debate is still going on. Read any history book on Muhammad and you will find that he believed in the Christian god (also called Allah).
I don't even know why this debate is still going on. Read any history book on Muhammad and you will find that he believed in the Christian god (also called Allah).
Rumi, Quatrain 745
http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/rub-0745.html
Rumi, Quatrain 996
Trans, Jonathan Starr
http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/rub-0745.html
Rumi, Quatrain 996
Trans, Jonathan Starr
we believe he is God's Son who came to this earth in the flesh, born of a virgin. he lived a sinless life. he died on the cross as a substitute for our sin, a perfect sacrifice. he was buried in the tomb, and 3 days later he rose from the dead.
muslims also agree jesus was born of a virgin and that he was sinless and did miracles. they deny his death and resurrection, as well as his saving work, not to mention his deity.
muslims also agree jesus was born of a virgin and that he was sinless and did miracles. they deny his death and resurrection, as well as his saving work, not to mention his deity.
Look man, every religion says that the other people got it wrong. Regardless of what christians think, they are worshipping the same god. Christians worship the god of Abraham as described in the old testament, they just think he gets a bit of a personality makeover for the new one. Same deal with muslims. They worship the god of the old testament, who also tends to change his mind on a few things after mohammad stops by. They both (along with their good friends the jews) worship the god of the old testament.
Why do you care if other people are worshipping the same god? It's simply a fact. cant everyone just accept that the other 2 branches of their same religion are going to hell for slightly different reasons, but due to the wrath of the same guy?
EDIT: Oh also, jews don't believe in the divinity of christ either, does this mean that they don't worship the god of the bible? This creates a lot of problems... as jesus was a jew, and would therefore not be worshipping...the...himself...uhmm... I don't know. That would be a tricky one though.
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