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Do absentee abllots in PA support or abet voter fraud?

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dali71

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2003
1,116
21
81
Hey genius if you note in your own post the only proof required is writing the last 4 digits of your SSN on the application. They will then mail you an absentee ballot. You fill it out and send it back in.

State issued picture ID not required

I do not have to have a picture ID for an absentee ballot.

Maybe if in person they would accept a form everyone has such as a utility bill this would go away. But remember is is not about fraud!!!!

Remember Republicans say if you don't support strict voter ID laws you support voter fraud. Title follows GOP playbook.
'Loophole' in ID law disproved

Is there a loophole in Pennsylvania's new voter ID law?
Several clever readers have written in recent weeks to say there appears to be a way to cast your ballot without having to show photo identification at the polling place as now required by Pennsylvania law.

It's called an absentee ballot.

"When you get it, fill it out and return it within 4 weeks of the election day, they'll mail you an absentee ballot, you fill in and mail back," wrote one county resident who described himself as being in his 70s and without a driver's license or other form of photo ID.

If that strategy sounds a little too easy, that's because it is, according to the Department of State.

A spokesman for the agency that oversees elections pointed us to the section of the new voter ID law that will require voters, for the first time, to provide proof of their identity with their application for an absentee ballot in the Nov. 6 election.

Here's the bottom line: If you have a driver's license or state Department of Transportation photo ID card, you'll be required to write down the number on your application for an absentee ballot. (Those with a religious objection to being photographed can use a valid-without-photo license number.)

If you don't have either of those, you'll be asked for the last four digits of your Social Security number, which will be checked against state and county databases.

If you plan to rely on just your Social Security number, though, be prepared to get a notice from the county board of elections; years ago, that information wasn't required when registering to vote, so it might not be on file.

In that case, you'll be asked to provide — you guessed it — a photo ID. And if you don't get it to the elections office within six days after the election, your vote won't count.


So, back to our question: Is there a loophole in Pennsylvania's new voter ID law?

No.

It's also worth pointing out that, even without the new voter ID requirements, voters are really supposed to use absentee ballot only if they're physically incapable — whether because of illness or travel — of getting to their polling place.

The application for an absentee ballot includes the following warning: "If you are able to vote in person on election day, you must go to your polling place, void your absentee ballot and vote there."
And Homer fails again! :D
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,730
10,799
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If she did not, then she got it when she voted in the last elections in April. The poll workers told EVERYONE about the new requirement and asked EVERYONE (not just the dems, which you seem to think for some odd reason) to see photo ID.

Do you even live in PA? I suspect not, or you would already know that.
I do live in PA that's why I started thread. I don't expect you to care about the ability of elderly black women to vote.

I don't know if she voted in April but that had no bearing on her rights this Nov.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
0
0
Of all the disgusting things the GOP has done to this country, this is by far the most egregious.

This is treason.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,730
10,799
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Can you show me the part of the law which only applies to democrats? I missed it. Thanks!



Can you show me the part of the law which says absentee ballots received after the deadline are allowed? Thanks!
If you will note I didn't use the word "only".

That's the clever part of voter supression. Republicans enacted restrictions to means of voting used predominately by Democrats knowing who would be more adversly effected.

It's the same reason Republicans are cutting back on early voting. More Dems use over Repubs.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,667
13,747
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How is giving someone 189 days (7.5 months) to get a free photo ID (and free replacement copy of their birth certificate) considered voter suppression when each of them can be obtained in the same day(making it 2 days total) if you go in person?
Wing nut fluffery. People don't necessarily live in the state where they were born.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
I do live in PA that's why I started thread. I don't expect you to care about the ability of elderly black women to vote.

I don't know if she voted in April but that had no bearing on her rights this Nov.
Ah, so you did know, but just pretended not to know so you could create a non-existant point which would be easily shut down. Odd.

She has the ability to vote, just like she has the ability to get a photo ID. If we pretend she found out about the law today (which is not true, but lets roll with it), she would still have 80 days to get her photo ID. Even if she needs to obtain a birth certificate, she will have 78 days left over (since she needs to use 1 day to get the certificate and 1 day to get the photo ID). Of course, there will be 24 weekends in there (though the larger PennDOT centers are open on Saturday, lets pretend they are not to make it even harder on her) and 2 state holidays, which reduce the total days to only 54, meaning she only has 52 left over days.

If she is unwilling to obtain her photo ID over the next 54 work days, then it is her own fault she cannot vote.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
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Wing nut fluffery. People don't necessarily live in the state where they were born.
So then they do the mail in request for the birth certificate, which takes 2 to 3 weeks. No fluffery needed to use the US Postal Service.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,730
10,799
136
This is in no way a fail. App states SSN can be used in lieu of photo ID. Photo ID would only come into play of the country does not have SSN. I don't remember if used my SSN when registering but I guess it wasn't always the case.

This was not enacted as part of new voter ID laws. This is just an unintended consequence. Stop making excuses for the lack of crackdown in absentee voting.

Since a PA elected official admitted the new voter ID laws were enacted to assist Romney in winning PA not for fraud, think they'll really check SSN #s????

BTW - When the absentee ballot is mailed out how do we know who filled it out? How is that verified?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
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If you will note I didn't use the word "only".

That's the clever part of voter supression. Republicans enacted restrictions to means of voting used predominately by Democrats knowing who would be more adversly effected.

It's the same reason Republicans are cutting back on early voting. More Dems use over Repubs.
So what you are saying is that dems are too lazy to get photo IDs and are so lazy they cannot possibly vote during the same time period the far more industrious reps can vote in.

That is not very nice of you.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,730
10,799
136
Ah, so you did know, but just pretended not to know so you could create a non-existant point which would be easily shut down. Odd.

She has the ability to vote, just like she has the ability to get a photo ID. If we pretend she found out about the law today (which is not true, but lets roll with it), she would still have 80 days to get her photo ID. Even if she needs to obtain a birth certificate, she will have 78 days left over (since she needs to use 1 day to get the certificate and 1 day to get the photo ID). Of course, there will be 24 weekends in there (though the larger PennDOT centers are open on Saturday, lets pretend they are not to make it even harder on her) and 2 state holidays, which reduce the total days to only 54, meaning she only has 52 left over days.

If she is unwilling to obtain her photo ID over the next 54 work days, then it is her own fault she cannot vote.
So the cost to travel possibly multiple counties, cost of BC on a 93 year old woman is of no concequence to you? I get it.

I assume you have proof a 93 old woman would be up to date on changes in voter laws real time?

To make it fair on everyone why not just have people without a picture ID bring a utility bill containing their name. Names can be checked and when they sign the register signatures can be verified?
 

nyker96

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
5,631
1
81
I believe for republicans to claim voter fraud you have to provide proof. And since disproportional more democratic constituents fall into those who cannot afford those id cards or pass the checks I think this is a political move by the Republicans.

However, why not do this, require an id card that is free, so people don't get charged for voting. If republicans are honest about this only been a matter of ascertaining identity then give every citizen a voter registration card for free.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,322
6,414
136
When you sign the ballot, you are asserting under oath that the signer is the person ballot addressed to.

Legal repercussions.

Such is not done at polling places
What an ignorant post. Please, continue posting about things you know absolutely nothing about.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,730
10,799
136
Why do you say that if we cannot stop all forms of voter fraud in one fell swoop, we should not stop any forms of voter fraud?
Even in the recent case PA admitted there is no proof the new laws would stop this kind of voter fraud so PA redered your question invalid.

Voter reform needs to be handled at the federal level so effects are felt proportionaly.

The 1965 Voting Rights Act says laws cannot be enacted that have a disproportinate effect regardless of intent.

BTW - I guess its safe to assume the cutbacks/elimation of early voting by Republicans only is just another coincidence?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
I believe for republicans to claim voter fraud you have to provide proof. And since disproportional more democratic constituents fall into those who cannot afford those id cards or pass the checks I think this is a political move by the Republicans.

However, why not do this, require an id card that is free, so people don't get charged for voting. If republicans are honest about this only been a matter of ascertaining identity then give every citizen a voter registration card for free.
PA offers both the replacement birth certificate and the photo ID card for free. It is a recent change, due to complaints about the cost. PA did the right thing and waived the cost and will even reemburse the cost of both if you request it.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Voter reform needs to be handled at the federal level so effects are felt proportionaly.

The 1965 Voting Rights Act says laws cannot be enacted that have a disproportinate effect regardless of intent.
Being lazy and deciding to not get a free ID is the fault of the lazy people and no one elses.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,730
10,799
136
PA offers both the replacement birth certificate and the photo ID card for free. It is a recent change, due to complaints about the cost. PA did the right thing and waived the cost and will even reemburse the cost of both if you request it.
Don't you think if Republicans were honest about "voter fraud" they would have enacted this the day after the previous election? (Nov 2011)

The fact that we are having these last minute changes show lack of thought and just wanting to execute their own agenda.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,730
10,799
136
Being lazy and deciding to not get a free ID is the fault of the lazy people and no one elses.
Same argument was used in the era of literacy tests and poll taxes.

Being stupid and so lazy that you don't have the money to vote is not an excuse.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Don't you think if Republicans were honest about "voter fraud" they would have enacted this the day after the previous election? (Nov 2011)

The fact that we are having these last minute changes show lack of thought and just wanting to execute their own agenda.
189 days is not "last minute". It is 7.5 months.

You are now saying "since they did not do it years ago, they should never do it". Bad reason to not do something.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Same argument was used in the era of literacy tests and poll taxes.

Being stupid and so lazy that you don't have the money to vote is not an excuse.
Being stupid is something you cannot do anything about - you are born that way. Being poor is not something you can always do something about. Getting a free ID in less than 189 days is something you can easily do something about.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Now it's OK to suppress voters because they're "lazy".

Any legal justification for that?
Voter Registration set a pretty fine legal precedent. If you are too lazy to register to vote, you are not allowed to vote.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
Same argument was used in the era of literacy tests and poll taxes.

Being stupid and so lazy that you don't have the money to vote is not an excuse.
Poll taxes were banned by the 24th Amendment.

Literacy tests were struck down because it was obvious they were being applied unfairly. As I recall from school even black judges were "failing" the tests.

No where in the constitution is the right to vote even if you are a lazy moron absolutely guaranteed.

And why are you so sure that Democrats are the ones that are stupid and lazy? I thought conservatives were the mentally defective ones :D
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
0
Now it's OK to suppress voters because they're "lazy".

Any legal justification for that?
It was a Supreme Court decision of 6-3.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/washington/28cnd-scotus.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court upheld Indiana’s voter-identification law on Monday, declaring that a requirement to produce photo identification is not unconstitutional and that the state has a “valid interest” in improving election procedures as well as deterring fraud.
But, as Justice Stevens noted, there have been flagrant examples of voter fraud in American history. He cited the 1868 New York City elections, in which a local tough who worked for Tammany’s William (Boss) Tweed explained why he liked voters to have whiskers: “When you’ve voted ’em with their whiskers on, you take ’em to a barber and scrape off the chin fringe. Then you vote ’em again with the side lilacs and a mustache. Then to a barber again, off comes the sides and you vote ’em a third time with the mustache. If that ain’t enough and the box can stand a few more ballots, clean off the mustache and vote ’em plain face.”

In 2004, Justice Stevens noted in a footnote, the hotly contested gubernatorial election in Washington State produced an investigation that turned up 19 “ghost voters” and at least one confirmed instance of voter fraud. And while Justice Stevens did not mention the elections in the career of Lyndon B. Johnson, biographers of the late president have suggested that he won at least one election in Texas in the 1940’s through ballot box-stuffing — and lost at least one the same way.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,667
13,747
136
I do love the disingenuous reference to 1868, when there were absolutely no forms of voter ID at all.

Perhaps another part of the article better explains what's going on-

Lawyers who challenged the case cited the experience of one would-be Indiana voter, Valerie Williams, who was turned away from the polling place in November 2006 by officials who told her that a telephone bill, a Social Security letter with her address and an expired driver’s license were no longer sufficient.
It's no surprise that the Bush Admin didn't support the suit or bring it on behalf of voters, or that an authoritarian conservative court upheld the Indiana statute.
 

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