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Do absentee abllots in PA support or abet voter fraud?

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spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
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What bad motives can be ascribed to Dems in this whole fracas?

Reasonable ones, that is... not some grand conspiracy theory about legal & illegal aliens voting Democratic in droves.

If strict voter ID were obviously important and necessary, then we'd have a lot more evidence that such is the case rather than mere belief... proponents would be able to cite significant fraud, not a few edge cases. Not to mention that if good ideas have bad motivations, they're few & far between, entirely accidental, the result of unintended consequences.
The bad motives that dems could have is that they would lose the vote of illegals. I am sure you know how both parties send out buses to pick up people to vote. I don't see what would stop them from hustling up some illegals to support the cause, and there is nothing very "conspiracy theory" about this notion either. It is about getting every single vote that one can get, be it one more vote or 40 more votes.

Hypothetically, If there was a way to ensure that poor voters could get their photo IDs, would you still be against requiring photo ID?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
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The bad motives that dems could have is that they would lose the vote of illegals. I am sure you know how both parties send out buses to pick up people to vote. I don't see what would stop them from hustling up some illegals to support the cause, and there is nothing very "conspiracy theory" about this notion either. It is about getting every single vote that one can get, be it one more vote or 40 more votes.

Hypothetically, If there was a way to ensure that poor voters could get their photo IDs, would you still be against requiring photo ID?
I said *not* a crackpot conspiracy theory...
 

Thegonagle

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2000
9,774
0
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And in 2009 the Governor of Minnesota was a Democrat. Sounds to me like Democrats are in favor of voter fraud.
The Governor of Minnesota was Tim Pawlenty, a Republican. As a life-long Minnesota resident, I'm 100% certain I am correct.

Nobody's in favor of voter fraud. In fact, 2011, the democrats came out with a pretty decent (and inexpensive) plan that would address the voter ID issue (despite no evidence of this kind of fraud), modernize part of our election system, disenfranchise nobody. The republicans pretty much said "no way," refusing to compromise.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
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I said *not* a crackpot conspiracy theory...
It is not crackpot at all... you are not aware that both parties on the local level have people that round up voters in vans and buses and bring them to the polling stations??? Wow.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,658
13,740
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It is not crackpot at all... you are not aware that both parties on the local level have people that round up voters in vans and buses and bring them to the polling stations??? Wow.
Heh. Have you already forgotten your crackpot remark about Dems & illegals?
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
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Your confirmation bias is showing, as always.

While you may not like the slant from more progressive sources, what you really need to take issue with is the *content*, but only if you're claiming to make sense.

I read all the biased & dumb-ass links posted by our Rightie-tighties, you included, just for that purpose- to address the *content*, not the slant.

If you can't get past the spin to get to the facts, if the prospect of doing that offends your oh so tender sensibilities, then you really have no business commenting on what other posters have to say about the links they post.

Silence critics? Critics who don't read what they criticize aren't "critics" at all. They're willful know-nothings, desperately proud to remain ignorant, locked in denial, yet eager to shoot their mouths off.
I showed mine and you showed yours (confirmation bias) and showed yours and showed yours and showed yours.
No comment from you on thinkprogress being a blog not a media outlet?
I did like their cute little "Think Progress is a project of the Center for American Progress Action Fund. The Center for American Progress Action Fund is a nonpartisan organization
Non-partisan? They are as non-partisan as they are honest.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
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Heh. Have you already forgotten your crackpot remark about Dems & illegals?

I did not think you would question the addition of illegals to a group being rounded up to vote- I thought you were questioning that anyone got rounded up and brought to the voting stations (the jump to the latter belief is the much broader jump). If you know about people getting rounded up to vote, what makes you think they don't include illegals in those groups, whether on purpose or by accident? It is almost silly to think that illegals wouldn't be included considering the activists go through such measures to get people out to the polls to support their candidates. And considering that they go through such measures to get people to the polls, don't you think they would put forth the same effort to get IDs?
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
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Man this is stupid.
1) You must be registered to vote.
2) You must be a citizen to register.
Ergo 3) There's no point bringing illegal aliens to a voting place to vote, since they won't be registered

If you think they WILL somehow be registered, then your problem is with the registration process.

If you think somehow they're voting as someone else, well, that's stupid because there's no evidence of it, and there's no point using illegals for that since any citizen can fake being another citizen just as easily.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
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Man this is stupid.
1) You must be registered to vote.
2) You must be a citizen to register.
Ergo 3) There's no point bringing illegal aliens to a voting place to vote, since they won't be registered

If you think they WILL somehow be registered, then your problem is with the registration process.

If you think somehow they're voting as someone else, well, that's stupid because there's no evidence of it, and there's no point using illegals for that since any citizen can fake being another citizen just as easily.
Can you register to vote if you're not a citizen? How about if you're a felon? Do you have to show citizenship papers when you register to vote? a drivers license?
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
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Can you register to vote if you're not a citizen? How about if you're a felon? Do you have to show citizenship papers when you register to vote? a drivers license?
No, no, depends on the state. In California, if you register by mail you have to provide your CA driver's ID number; or if you don't have one, the last four of your social security number; or if you can't or don't for some reason, you have to show ID when you vote. https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/register-to-vote/app-pdf/english-blank.pdf

Note that in lots of states, if you gather voter registrations, you're legally required to submit those registration forms no matter what, in order to keep partisan registration drives from just tossing the other party voters' papers as "obvious frauds." As a result, you get groups like the League of Women Voters submitting some obviously silly registration forms, but they get filtered out when checking against social security or driver's ID records. In the case of ACORN, a few lazy gatherers filling out forms in order to get paid without doing the work - out of hundreds of such gatherers - led to the incredibly silly conservative uproar of "voter fraud" and "stolen elections," even though 1) they legally had to submit those forms anyway and rely on the government to filter them, and 2) Republican-led investigations concluded it was just some lazy workers (who were then prosecuted and convicted) rather than a plot to commit voter fraud.

Paperwork snafus might keep some felons on the voting registration rolls after they're not legally allowed anymore, but that's easy to check if it's happened and prosecute accordingly.
 
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monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
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We all know that illegal aliens really care if something is illegal or not. Good thing those criminals would never, never, ever do something ....errrr ......illegal. In terms of felons voting did you read the reports about the felons voting in Minnesota?

Either way the Supreme Court have already ruled on a simple requirement to show some type of ID when a citizen votes is legal, fair and not unreasonable or an undue burden.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,209
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I did not think you would question the addition of illegals to a group being rounded up to vote- I thought you were questioning that anyone got rounded up and brought to the voting stations (the jump to the latter belief is the much broader jump). If you know about people getting rounded up to vote, what makes you think they don't include illegals in those groups, whether on purpose or by accident? It is almost silly to think that illegals wouldn't be included considering the activists go through such measures to get people out to the polls to support their candidates. And considering that they go through such measures to get people to the polls, don't you think they would put forth the same effort to get IDs?
We all know that illegal aliens really care if something is illegal or not. Good thing those criminals would never, never, ever do something ....errrr ......illegal. In terms of felons voting did you read the reports about the felons voting in Minnesota?

Either way the Supreme Court have already ruled on a simple requirement to show some type of ID when a citizen votes is legal, fair and not unreasonable or an undue burden.
So you guys theorize that Dems ride around looking for illegal aliens on election day and then bring them to the polling place to vote? How do these illegals obtain the names and addresses of people who are registered to vote? After they do that, how do they know which of them will definitely not be voting so they can pretend to be those people specifically? After they do that, how are they able to forge the signature they are supposed to match?
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,652
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There is no "good reason" to ignore content.
There is plenty of good reason to ignore the content when someone links to garbage sites like thinkprogress. Those sites are filled with biased partisan hackery, including plenty of outright lies or heavily edited information to suit a particular agenda. Looking at that information and then refuting it is a waste of time and resources. Idiots who want to believe those sites will anyway.

Bottom line, want someone to read something, link to something more credible.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,652
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Note that this is an actual news article, not an op-ed.
These days that doesn't make a whole lot of difference if you look at most of the national media. What passes for journalism has declined to the point where the standards for a news article and some op-ed are just not all that different.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,658
13,740
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I agree, "good reason" was a poor choice of words. I should probably have said "easy excuse", or something in that vein. The point is that some people will immediately reject content from such blatantly partisan sources, regardless of the original source or its merits. (This applies on both the left and the right.) Of course as you note, many will also reject legitimate sources who state something they don't want to hear, but it's a smaller group.
I think you're being too charitable. The exchange you reference is a perfect example. After you linked the Columbus Dispatch, there has been zero, absolutely zero comments from monovillage about that, or from any of his ideological allies, either. It's as if you never did, as if it never existed. He just raves on about Think Progress, and the rest wander back into their usual memes & aspersions about Dems wanting illegals to vote, about their imaginary conspiracy of fraud.

Their faith, their system of belief, rules out the integration of contrary information entirely. Yet they claim to be rational, to formulate their opinions on the basis of reason while displaying an appalling rejection of it. They claim the right to critique material they refuse to even read. To them, facts don't matter, and they deserve all the ridicule & scorn they can possibly receive.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,658
13,740
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There is plenty of good reason to ignore the content when someone links to garbage sites like thinkprogress. Those sites are filled with biased partisan hackery, including plenty of outright lies or heavily edited information to suit a particular agenda. Looking at that information and then refuting it is a waste of time and resources. Idiots who want to believe those sites will anyway.

Bottom line, want someone to read something, link to something more credible.
Care to comment on Bow's link to the Columbus Dispatch?

Probably not... it's jes' that damnable libruhl media, right?
 

Pens1566

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2005
7,557
671
126
So you guys theorize that Dems ride around looking for illegal aliens on election day and then bring them to the polling place to vote? How do these illegals obtain the names and addresses of people who are registered to vote? After they do that, how do they know which of them will definitely not be voting so they can pretend to be those people specifically? After they do that, how are they able to forge the signature they are supposed to match?
You aren't going to get a legitimate response to this. And for good reason.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,652
199
101
Care to comment on Bow's link to the Columbus Dispatch?

Probably not... it's jes' that damnable libruhl media, right?
What is there to comment on? Just the usual blathering and whining, discarding all logic in favor of emotional arguments. The sec of state there set uniform hours for all counties, and set the policy for the polls the same as in surrounding states (ie, no early in-person ballots etc). Issue not found.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,483
1
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So you guys theorize that Dems ride around looking for illegal aliens on election day and then bring them to the polling place to vote? How do these illegals obtain the names and addresses of people who are registered to vote? After they do that, how do they know which of them will definitely not be voting so they can pretend to be those people specifically? After they do that, how are they able to forge the signature they are supposed to match?
Who says they do not register themselves? You just need a SSN to that matches with a name to register which is not difficult to obtain. In alot of cases, illegals already have SSNs.

Also, your first sentence seems to be a deliberate misrepresentation as I have already clarified twice, although I should not need to as it is common knowledge that both parties send out buses to cart people to the elections.

Also, since you are piping up as well, let me ask you the same question I asked Jnnn:

Hypothetically, if you could provide picture IDs for all citizens, would you still be against a law mandating that all voters present their picture IDs to vote?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,658
13,740
136
What is there to comment on? Just the usual blathering and whining, discarding all logic in favor of emotional arguments. The sec of state there set uniform hours for all counties, and set the policy for the polls the same as in surrounding states (ie, no early in-person ballots etc). Issue not found.
Yeh, he did perform a pretty spiffy 180, with you and all the rest of his fans acting as if nothing had happened.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/15/opinion/overt-discrimination-in-ohio.html

They seem to have figured out that what they were doing was entirely too obvious...
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,658
13,740
136
Who says they do not register themselves? You just need a SSN to that matches with a name to register which is not difficult to obtain. In alot of cases, illegals already have SSNs.

Also, your first sentence seems to be a deliberate misrepresentation as I have already clarified twice, although I should not need to as it is common knowledge that both parties send out buses to cart people to the elections.

Also, since you are piping up as well, let me ask you the same question I asked Jnnn:

Hypothetically, if you could provide picture IDs for all citizens, would you still be against a law mandating that all voters present their picture IDs to vote?
Hypothetically, if pigs had wings, would they fly? If Bigfoot wore a size 19, would they be Nikes?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,658
13,740
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The GOP faithful bought it. Who knew that so many others could think for themselves?
They didn't buy it, at all- they knew it for what it was all along & supported it entirely. They now pretend that it really never happened, that it was completely innocent.

It's like Jimmy Crow in the Doonesbury strip linked earlier.



Spittledip's disingenuous smears & denial are no better.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,483
1
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I did not smear anyone. If suggesting that both parties have bad motives regarding this issue is considered a smear, then why bother discussing this, or anything, at all?
 

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