Disturbing Article about Obama and his minister

[Dari]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari


Africans that come here don't do either. The fact is, African-Americans came here as slaves and have had terrible things done to them. To compare them to immigrants is laughable.

And is there any African American alive today born as slave? African American has all the opportunity as anyone else, as long as they are willing to work hard, Obama is the perfect example himself.

You just proved my point. Obama is the son of an African immigrant and American woman. He is not the descendent of African-Americans. The African-American experience is a painful one and people don't forget easily.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Well since I'm not voting for Farrakhan or Obama's minister for President, I'm not entirely sure what this article has to do with anything. If Obama has been influenced by the ideas described in the article, he's hiding it really, REALLY well. Far more so than any candidate in recent memory, Obama is running a campaign that appeals to a broad range of folks from every race and religion...that would seem to contradict the insinuation in this "article" pretty well.

Really. So if McCain went the Church Of KKK you wouldn't hold it against him since you wouldn't be voting for his pastor? Read the article and look at the quotes attributed to the minster or to the church. Do they sound that much different than what white supremacists say? If so, how does that reflect on Obama?

I think the answer is obvious. Supremacists are fine and do not reflect on those associated with them, UNLESS they are white supremacists. The concept of equal treatment fails to pass even the most basic of tests.

It?s more about supporting those closest to you, in which case what Obama?s minister says isn?t far removed from any other liberal.

 

[Jmman]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: XMan
You've never heard of coolies, have you?

FWIW I don't know that it's necessarily fair to judge Obama by what his pastor says. I think all of us have friends, associates, etc., that believe and say things we may be vehemently opposed to.

Do we donate $20k+ to these friends and associates? Do we actively seek out their advice and use them as a moral compass. Go back and read what Obama has said about Wright's involvement in his life.

Look at Michelle Obama's statements about how 'mean' America is. How she's never been proud of America until now.

Go back and look at Obama's involvement with Rezco. Look at Obama's statements about his involvement and then the actual level of involvement.

Go back and look at Obama's involvement with William Ayers - a member of the 60s era terror group Weather Underground.

Taken separately, Obama could get a pass on it. Put it all together and a less than glowing picture is painted.

Agreed. And I think this story is only going to get bigger. Obama denied ever hearing any of these controversial statements or sermons by Wright, but on Monday evidently a story is going to be released that clearly places him at some of these sermons........

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Jmman

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: XMan
You've never heard of coolies, have you?

FWIW I don't know that it's necessarily fair to judge Obama by what his pastor says. I think all of us have friends, associates, etc., that believe and say things we may be vehemently opposed to.

Do we donate $20k+ to these friends and associates? Do we actively seek out their advice and use them as a moral compass. Go back and read what Obama has said about Wright's involvement in his life.

Look at Michelle Obama's statements about how 'mean' America is. How she's never been proud of America until now.

Go back and look at Obama's involvement with Rezco. Look at Obama's statements about his involvement and then the actual level of involvement.

Go back and look at Obama's involvement with William Ayers - a member of the 60s era terror group Weather Underground.

Taken separately, Obama could get a pass on it. Put it all together and a less than glowing picture is painted.

Agreed. And I think this story is only going to get bigger. Obama denied ever hearing any of these controversial statements or sermons by Wright, but on Monday evidently a story is going to be released that clearly places him at some of these sermons........

On Monday? What about today?

 

[rpanic]

Dang it sounds like Obama it changing from Lion to Black Panther overnight. I can already see republicans eating all this up.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: rpanic
Dang it sounds like Obama it changing from Lion to Black Panther overnight. I can already see republicans eating all this up.

Changing? Twenty-years of having this minister be his moral compass is not something that happened overnight. People have been to blind by his speeches to dig around.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: rpanic
Dang it sounds like Obama it changing from Lion to Black Panther overnight. I can already see republicans eating all this up.

Unless you hear Obama making similar speeches, it's doubtful that he would be hurt by this. Given his past, I find it hard to believe that he would approve of these things that the pastor says. But guilt by association is fair game in politics, I guess.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

And the Obamabots will continue to follow.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari


Africans that come here don't do either. The fact is, African-Americans came here as slaves and have had terrible things done to them. To compare them to immigrants is laughable.

And is there any African American alive today born as slave? African American has all the opportunity as anyone else, as long as they are willing to work hard, Obama is the perfect example himself.

You just proved my point. Obama is the son of an African immigrant and American woman. He is not the descendent of African-Americans. The African-American experience is a painful one and people don't forget easily.

So your point is that the immigrants of different races that come to this country and have to adapt to a new culture, language, and surroundings have it easier then those who were born in the USA, grew up in this culture, and speak English as well as the next person?

Wow, all I can say is that seems to be some serious self-delusion you have going there. I have to ask, are you black and are speaking from personal experience?

 

[nageov3t]

I think saying it's simply guilt my association is severely downplaying the relationship between this guy and Obama.

my best friend's wife is a huge racist. it bothers me, but I generally don't say anything because I only have a superficial relationship with her and don't want to create drama for my friend. accusing me of being a racist based on my lose relationship with her would be guild my association.

if I spent 20 years giving her money to further her vision of America, had her baptize my kids, speak at campaign rallies, and referred to her as my moral compass, then yeah... I think it'd be fair to question it.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Dari
On Monday? What about today?

If you want to bury news, you release it Friday evening or Saturday. If you want news to make a splash, you release it Sunday night/Monday morning. That's just the way the news cycle work.

News released on weekends typically gets lost.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari


Africans that come here don't do either. The fact is, African-Americans came here as slaves and have had terrible things done to them. To compare them to immigrants is laughable.

And is there any African American alive today born as slave? African American has all the opportunity as anyone else, as long as they are willing to work hard, Obama is the perfect example himself.

You just proved my point. Obama is the son of an African immigrant and American woman. He is not the descendent of African-Americans. The African-American experience is a painful one and people don't forget easily.

So your point is that the immigrants of different races that come to this country and have to adapt to a new culture, language, and surroundings have it easier then those who were born in the USA, grew up in this culture, and speak English as well as the next person?

Wow, all I can say is that seems to be some serious self-delusion you have going there. I have to ask, are you black and are speaking from personal experience?

Immigrants come here because they want to. Hence, the effort to succeed is built in. The adversities you experience won't stop you at all. It's true for all immigrants, whether they are asians or blacks from Africa or the Carribeans. They all come here and work hard here. These blacks don't really relate to the AAs in this country and vice versa.

Like I said before, AAs have a lot of legitimate reason to be pissed and they remember the terrible things done to them. But, TBH, they can't keep making excuses forever. Obama is closer to immigrants than native African Americans because his mother is white and his father was African. He's seeing their world from outside. That makes it a million times easier for him to disagree with them. That may be why he has such a positive attitude of America, compared to his wife, who is a native African American.

To outsiders, these differences may not mean much but all it takes is a minute of thinking to come to the realization of how easy it is for someone like Obama to disagree with this pastor (and for his wife to sympathize with him).

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: loki8481
I think saying it's simply guilt my association is severely downplaying the relationship between this guy and Obama.

my best friend's wife is a huge racist. it bothers me, but I generally don't say anything because I only have a superficial relationship with her and don't want to create drama for my friend. accusing me of being a racist based on my lose relationship with her would be guild my association.

if I spent 20 years giving her money to further her vision of America, had her baptize my kids, speak at campaign rallies, and referred to her as my moral compass, then yeah... I think it'd be fair to question it.

It's a fair question only if you listen to ALL his sermons. You can't make a scientific regression from two or three speeches. In politics, it may work, but you'd know damn well that you're lying to yourself and seeing what you want to see.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: rchiu
Clintons won't use this cause they still want black votes if Hillary is nominated. But Republican won't hold back. This is some serious stuff.

The Clintons don't need to directly use this stuff. They still have allies in the media that will constantly remind the super delegates of this issue for them. I would not be surprised if the Clinton campaign was behind this with their allies in the media doing ot for them.

 

[soonerproud]

Originally posted by: rchiu

And is there any African American alive today born as slave? African American has all the opportunity as anyone else, as long as they are willing to work hard, Obama is the perfect example himself.

No but many were born into the equivalent of slavery by being victims of institutionalized racism especially in the South and their Jim Crowe laws. The US essentially was an apartheid nation until 1974 when the Federal Government started wholesale enforcement of the constitution. Black Americans were denied up until that time their rights to freedom of speech, religion, expression and their right to vote due to polling taxes and laws that proclaimed you must know how to read to vote. Black America was denied education opportunities and integration into the rest of American society up until then.

I am not saying this is an excuse for racism of any kind. But to deny that Black America was denied the same opportunities as White America in the recent past is completely dishonest.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari


Africans that come here don't do either. The fact is, African-Americans came here as slaves and have had terrible things done to them. To compare them to immigrants is laughable.

And is there any African American alive today born as slave? African American has all the opportunity as anyone else, as long as they are willing to work hard, Obama is the perfect example himself.

You just proved my point. Obama is the son of an African immigrant and American woman. He is not the descendent of African-Americans. The African-American experience is a painful one and people don't forget easily.

So your point is that the immigrants of different races that come to this country and have to adapt to a new culture, language, and surroundings have it easier then those who were born in the USA, grew up in this culture, and speak English as well as the next person?

Wow, all I can say is that seems to be some serious self-delusion you have going there. I have to ask, are you black and are speaking from personal experience?

Immigrants come here because they want to. Hence, the effort to succeed is built in. The adversities you experience won't stop you at all. It's true for all immigrants, whether they are asians or blacks from Africa or the Carribeans. They all come here and work hard here. These blacks don't really relate to the AAs in this country and vice versa.

So the AA's that are here didn't ask to be here? Neither did I, but that and 50 cents might buy me a cup of coffee. Is that supposed to be some type of rationale that excuses one from working hard? Back in the day a lot of people used to bemoan the fact that they didn't ask to be born. I never understood that either?

Like I said before, AAs have a lot of legitimate reason to be pissed and they remember the terrible things done to them. But, TBH, they can't keep making excuses forever. Obama is closer to immigrants than native African Americans because his mother is white and his father was African. He's seeing their world from outside. That makes it a million times easier for him to disagree with them. That may be why he has such a positive attitude of America, compared to his wife, who is a native African American.

As somebody who looks black I don't see how his experience would be much different from any other black born in America? Indeed, it could be argued that he had it worse since he was half black.half white and never really fit in anyplace.

To outsiders, these differences may not mean much but all it takes is a minute of thinking to come to the realization of how easy it is for someone like Obama to disagree with this pastor (and for his wife to sympathize with him).

If he disagreed with him why has he been supporting that church for over 20 years? Why does he refer to him as the person who keeps "his moral compass calibrated"?

 

[Queasy]

Here's a quote from Obama's book where he is directly quoting a Wright sermon that moved him and he thought was important.

?It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks? greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere?That?s the world! On which hope sits!?

And so it went, a meditation on a fallen world. While the boys next to me doodled on their church bulletin, Reverend Wright spoke of Sharpsville and Hiroshima, the callousness of policy makers in the White House and in the State House.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari


Africans that come here don't do either. The fact is, African-Americans came here as slaves and have had terrible things done to them. To compare them to immigrants is laughable.

And is there any African American alive today born as slave? African American has all the opportunity as anyone else, as long as they are willing to work hard, Obama is the perfect example himself.

You just proved my point. Obama is the son of an African immigrant and American woman. He is not the descendent of African-Americans. The African-American experience is a painful one and people don't forget easily.

So your point is that the immigrants of different races that come to this country and have to adapt to a new culture, language, and surroundings have it easier then those who were born in the USA, grew up in this culture, and speak English as well as the next person?

Wow, all I can say is that seems to be some serious self-delusion you have going there. I have to ask, are you black and are speaking from personal experience?

Immigrants come here because they want to. Hence, the effort to succeed is built in. The adversities you experience won't stop you at all. It's true for all immigrants, whether they are asians or blacks from Africa or the Carribeans. They all come here and work hard here. These blacks don't really relate to the AAs in this country and vice versa.

So the AA's that are here didn't ask to be here? Neither did I, but that and 50 cents might buy me a cup of coffee. Is that supposed to be some type of rationale that excuses one from working hard? Back in the day a lot of people used to bemoan the fact that they didn't ask to be born. I never understood that either?

Like I said before, AAs have a lot of legitimate reason to be pissed and they remember the terrible things done to them. But, TBH, they can't keep making excuses forever. Obama is closer to immigrants than native African Americans because his mother is white and his father was African. He's seeing their world from outside. That makes it a million times easier for him to disagree with them. That may be why he has such a positive attitude of America, compared to his wife, who is a native African American.

As somebody who looks black I don't see how his experience would be much different from any other black born in America? Indeed, it could be argued that he had it worse since he was half black.half white and never really fit in anyplace.

He didn't fit and you can see that in his book. But that is an advantage because it allows you to see the world as an outsider rather than part of a group. To many, including myself, that is a powerful vantage point.

To outsiders, these differences may not mean much but all it takes is a minute of thinking to come to the realization of how easy it is for someone like Obama to disagree with this pastor (and for his wife to sympathize with him).

If he disagreed with him why has he been supporting that church for over 20 years? Why does he refer to him as the person who keeps "his moral compass calibrated"?

Perhaps, just perhaps, this pastor is more than what you see in these few speeches? Why is that so hard to wrap your head around?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Queasy
Here's a quote from Obama's book where he is directly quoting a Wright sermon that moved him and he thought was important.

?It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where white folks? greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere?That?s the world! On which hope sits!?

And so it went, a meditation on a fallen world. While the boys next to me doodled on their church bulletin, Reverend Wright spoke of Sharpsville and Hiroshima, the callousness of policy makers in the White House and in the State House.

So the pastor isn't very diplomatic in his speeches, does it make him wrong? Is saying "white folks" racist now? Aren't there people on Wall Street using the phrase "Greed is good" as their new tenet?

Is that Wright phrase supposed to be racist? Grow some backbone.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari


Africans that come here don't do either. The fact is, African-Americans came here as slaves and have had terrible things done to them. To compare them to immigrants is laughable.

And is there any African American alive today born as slave? African American has all the opportunity as anyone else, as long as they are willing to work hard, Obama is the perfect example himself.

You just proved my point. Obama is the son of an African immigrant and American woman. He is not the descendent of African-Americans. The African-American experience is a painful one and people don't forget easily.

So your point is that the immigrants of different races that come to this country and have to adapt to a new culture, language, and surroundings have it easier then those who were born in the USA, grew up in this culture, and speak English as well as the next person?

Wow, all I can say is that seems to be some serious self-delusion you have going there. I have to ask, are you black and are speaking from personal experience?

Immigrants come here because they want to. Hence, the effort to succeed is built in. The adversities you experience won't stop you at all. It's true for all immigrants, whether they are asians or blacks from Africa or the Carribeans. They all come here and work hard here. These blacks don't really relate to the AAs in this country and vice versa.

So the AA's that are here didn't ask to be here? Neither did I, but that and 50 cents might buy me a cup of coffee. Is that supposed to be some type of rationale that excuses one from working hard? Back in the day a lot of people used to bemoan the fact that they didn't ask to be born. I never understood that either?

Like I said before, AAs have a lot of legitimate reason to be pissed and they remember the terrible things done to them. But, TBH, they can't keep making excuses forever. Obama is closer to immigrants than native African Americans because his mother is white and his father was African. He's seeing their world from outside. That makes it a million times easier for him to disagree with them. That may be why he has such a positive attitude of America, compared to his wife, who is a native African American.

As somebody who looks black I don't see how his experience would be much different from any other black born in America? Indeed, it could be argued that he had it worse since he was half black.half white and never really fit in anyplace.

He didn't fit and you can see that in his book. But that is an advantage because it allows you to see the world as an outsider rather than part of a group. To many, including myself, that is a powerful vantage point.

To outsiders, these differences may not mean much but all it takes is a minute of thinking to come to the realization of how easy it is for someone like Obama to disagree with this pastor (and for his wife to sympathize with him).

If he disagreed with him why has he been supporting that church for over 20 years? Why does he refer to him as the person who keeps "his moral compass calibrated"?

Perhaps, just perhaps, this pastor is more than what you see in these few speeches? Why is that so hard to wrap your head around?

It's not hard for me to wrap my head around. He picked the side that could him the most good in Chicago politics and he played it for everything it's worth too.

There's nothing wrong with that, but if he's going to be running for POTUS then he needs to be forthright about that instead of feigning ignorance and trying to claim he was supposedly unaware of his mentor's views.

 

[Fern]

I don't know how long this story will go on, or whether it will hurt Obama.

But I do think one need consider if over +30 yrs they can only come up with about half a dozen crazy "soundbites" this might be a misrepresentation. Additionally, the sound bites are rather short, each maybe a minute. What was the guy saying for the other 59 minutes of the church service?

I saw Obama address this 2 or 3 different times last night. I recall seeing him on Fox and CNN. My wife and I thought he handled it extremely well. In denouncing the preacher's comments, he turned it from a messgae of despair (that's the preacher's) into a message of hope (Obama's).

If this preacher's "tirades" were very infrequent, I don't think Obama should have quit the church as many say. If you can only attend a church where you never ever disagree with something said, you'll run out of churches in a short time. Or perhaps need to look for one where nothing of substance is ever said.

I got the impression that some of these "sound bites" weren't not racist, although they were jammed in betweens ones that were making them look worse, but rather the preacher was "justifying" Obama's "blackness" to the African-American community. Things like Hillary ain't black, wasn't a black kid raised in a broken home like Obama etc. Remember that not long ago the black community didn't accept Obama, thinking he was not "black enough".

(Now, this is a problem, not because it's racists, but because IMO it's campaigning for Obama from the pulpit. That is not allowed under the 501(c)(3) (non-profit income tax) rules. I understand that the church is now being investigated by the IRS. I also understand that the preacher in question is retiring at the end of the month. Another reason not to quit.)

I'm a middle age white-guy. While surprised to think people would waste otherwise good "church" time on these topics, hear "GD" word and watch simulated Clinton sex acts in a church, blacks complaining about white dominance doesn't surprise or offend me.

I've grown up listening to liberal whites say the same thing. How can I be surprised or think it racist if black themselves say the same thing? Is this some white liberal double standard? White liberals can say these things but not black people?

Almost anything that pastor says I see here on the AT forum almost daily. Guilt for Hiroshima and Nagaski, that strikes me as run-of-the-mill liberal. Remember, the USA is the cause of problems in the world. White oppression of blacks? Well, excuse me. Here, on an almost daily basis, we who live in the South are referred to as incestuous nuckle-dragging backward redneck racists by those of you who live elsewhere. I see no outrage on the forums when that's posted, but I see it now when some Black preacher says it.

I guess I just think this is just blown out of proportion, and don't much personally care for guilt by association or bringing a church into politics.

Lastly, it occurred to me that those who say Obama is not ready to run against the Repubs because they will be tough and nasty and he untrested, can stop that line of argument now. I don't know of anything tougher and nastier than attacking a person's church or insinuating that they are a closet racists. This on top of "stealth Muslim". Nope, I think a battle against the Repubs will look like a cake-walk. Just a serious debate about policy & experience.(notwithstanding idiots like Hannity who will probrably keep harping on this crap.)

Fern

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dari


Africans that come here don't do either. The fact is, African-Americans came here as slaves and have had terrible things done to them. To compare them to immigrants is laughable.

And is there any African American alive today born as slave? African American has all the opportunity as anyone else, as long as they are willing to work hard, Obama is the perfect example himself.

You just proved my point. Obama is the son of an African immigrant and American woman. He is not the descendent of African-Americans. The African-American experience is a painful one and people don't forget easily.

So your point is that the immigrants of different races that come to this country and have to adapt to a new culture, language, and surroundings have it easier then those who were born in the USA, grew up in this culture, and speak English as well as the next person?

Wow, all I can say is that seems to be some serious self-delusion you have going there. I have to ask, are you black and are speaking from personal experience?

Immigrants come here because they want to. Hence, the effort to succeed is built in. The adversities you experience won't stop you at all. It's true for all immigrants, whether they are asians or blacks from Africa or the Carribeans. They all come here and work hard here. These blacks don't really relate to the AAs in this country and vice versa.

So the AA's that are here didn't ask to be here? Neither did I, but that and 50 cents might buy me a cup of coffee. Is that supposed to be some type of rationale that excuses one from working hard? Back in the day a lot of people used to bemoan the fact that they didn't ask to be born. I never understood that either?

Like I said before, AAs have a lot of legitimate reason to be pissed and they remember the terrible things done to them. But, TBH, they can't keep making excuses forever. Obama is closer to immigrants than native African Americans because his mother is white and his father was African. He's seeing their world from outside. That makes it a million times easier for him to disagree with them. That may be why he has such a positive attitude of America, compared to his wife, who is a native African American.

As somebody who looks black I don't see how his experience would be much different from any other black born in America? Indeed, it could be argued that he had it worse since he was half black.half white and never really fit in anyplace.

He didn't fit and you can see that in his book. But that is an advantage because it allows you to see the world as an outsider rather than part of a group. To many, including myself, that is a powerful vantage point.

To outsiders, these differences may not mean much but all it takes is a minute of thinking to come to the realization of how easy it is for someone like Obama to disagree with this pastor (and for his wife to sympathize with him).

If he disagreed with him why has he been supporting that church for over 20 years? Why does he refer to him as the person who keeps "his moral compass calibrated"?

Perhaps, just perhaps, this pastor is more than what you see in these few speeches? Why is that so hard to wrap your head around?

It's not hard for me to wrap my head around. He picked the side that could him the most good in Chicago politics and he played it for everything it's worth too.

There's nothing wrong with that, but if he's going to be running for POTUS then he needs to be forthright about that instead of feigning ignorance and trying to claim he was supposedly unaware of his mentor's views.

You have a point. But you are implying he's lying by saying he hasn't been forthright. In other words, you just don't believe him. I can't say I'm surprised considering you support Hillary. For me, looking at his history, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. If Obama has internalized any of the vitriol coming out of that Pastor's mouth, he would be a very bitter man. But he isn't.

 

[nageov3t]

I don't know how long this story will go on, or whether it will hurt Obama.

I know national polls are meaningless, but for what it's worth, Obama's lead over Clinton dropped from 8 points (50-42) to 1 point (46-45) according to rassmusen, and McCain holds a national lead over both democratic candidates.

http://www.rasmussenreports.co...idential_tracking_poll

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Fern
I don't know how long this story will go on, or whether it will hurt Obama.

But I do think one need consider if over +30 yrs they can only come up with about half a dozen crazy "soundbites" this might be a misrepresentation. Additionally, the sound bites are rather short, each maybe a minute. What was the guy saying for the other 59 minutes of the church service?

I saw Obama address this 2 or 3 different times last night. I recall seeing him on Fox and CNN. My wife and I thought he handled it extremely well. In denouncing the preacher's comments, he turned it from a messgae of despair (that's the preacher's) into a message of hope (Obama's).

If this preacher's "tirades" were very infrequent, I don't think Obama should have quit the church as many say. If you can only attend a church where you never ever disagree with something said, you'll run out of churches in a short time. Or perhaps need to look for one where nothing of substance is ever said.

I got the impression that some of these "sound bites" weren't not racist, although they were jammed in betweens ones that were making them look worse, but rather the preacher was "justifying" Obama's "blackness" to the African-American community. Things like Hillary ain't black, wasn't a black kid raised in a broken home like Obama etc. Remember that not long ago the black community didn't accept Obama, thinking he was not "black enough".

(Now, this is a problem, not because it's racists, but because IMO it's campaigning for Obama from the pulpit. That is not allowed under the 501(c)(3) (non-profit income tax) rules. I understand that the church is now being investigated by the IRS. I also understand that the preacher in question is retiring at the end of the month. Another reason not to quit.)

I'm a middle age white-guy. While surprised to think people would waste otherwise good "church" time on these topics, hear "GD" word and watch simulated Clinton sex acts in a church, blacks complaining about white dominance doesn't surprise or offend me.

I've grown up listening to liberal whites say the same thing. How can I be surprised or think it racist if black themselves say the same thing? Is this some white liberal double standard? White liberals can say these things but not black people?

Almost anything that pastor says I see here on the AT forum almost daily. Guilt for Hiroshima and Nagaski, that strikes me as run-of-the-mill liberal. Remember, the USA is the cause of problems in the world. White oppression of blacks? Well, excuse me. Here, on an almost daily basis, we who live in the South are referred to as incestuous nuckle-dragging backward redneck racists by those of you who live elsewhere. I see no outrage on the forums when that's posted, but I see it now when some Black preacher says it.

I guess I just think this is just blown out of proportion, and don't much personally care for guilt by association or bringing a church into politics.

Lastly, it occurred to me that those who say Obama is not ready to run against the Repubs because they will be tough and nasty and he untrested, can stop that line of argument now. I don't know of anything tougher and nastier than attacking a person's church or insinuating that they are a closet racists. This on top of "stealth Muslim". Nope, I think a battle against the Repubs will look like a cake-walk. Just a serious debate about policy & experience.(notwithstanding idiots like Hannity who will probrably keep harping on this crap.)

Fern

Well, you said it better than I ever could. The "racism" allegations were lite, very lite. And the guilt by association is dumb and unfair to him. I think his Uncle analogy was good. My cousin is a diehard feminist that rails against men all the time. I am very conservative when it comes to family. We definitely disagree on a lot of issues but that is never a reason to dis-associate from her because she has some excellent qualities about her that I like.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: loki8481

I don't know how long this story will go on, or whether it will hurt Obama.

I know national polls are meaningless....

http://www.rasmussenreports.co...idential_tracking_poll

You needn't say more.