Did the cops do the right thing?

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: FleshLight
Well if we're venturing into the hypothetical realm, what if the cops called off the chase and she lost control and plowed into a van full of preschoolers and rammed them into a tree? We just don't know...

What actually DID happen is that the Georgia State Patrol performed an extremely dangerous PIT maneuver causing a driver guilty of ONLY a misdemeanor to lose control and plow into a tree, killing her and her innocent passenger. But it's okay, because she was a criminal! :roll:

how are you so sure the passenger was innocent? for all you know, he/she could have been all for running from the police. and yes, it is okay, because the driver made the choice to run from the police, she should have expected such actions to be taken against her.

Why should potentially lethal force be taken against someone with a suspended license?

IMO, it's akin to an officer pulling his Sig and firing when he's chasing after a shoplifter. The force must equal the crime, and the only danger to the police in this situation was self-inflicted (by continuing the chase in such busy conditions).

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: flloyd
Definitely. Evading police, particularly at extremely high speeds on busy highways, is one thing that I don't belive the public or police should have any tolerance of. It is unfortunate that they chose to run when they had relatively minor infractions but the fact remains that they made that decision for themselves. Imagine the outrage had the SUV rear ended a family of four at 100 MPH. And no jumper the police did not kill them, the driver killed themselves.

What if the police had hit an uninvolved motorist in the process of chasing this driver? Is it okay to kill an innocent bystander in the name of 'justice?' Keep in mind, the only crime the offending driver committed was DWLS, which is a misdemeanor in Michigan.

if the police had hit an uninvolved motorist, the blame ought to be put upon the shoulders of the criminals.

 

[oogabooga]

not to sound harsh, but lets face it, she was a dengerous driver. The state trooper did his duty, and he excercised a practiced and accepted method to stop this driver. yes her "only" crime was a DWLS, but the state troopers had no idea that was her only crime. I may not recall correctly, but high-speed chases in georgia are uncommon... the fact that should would jet over an 86mph speeding ticket probally concerned the officer. The fact that she also had a DWLS only further justifies what the trooper did imo. You took this person who clearly disregarded the rules of the road, and had them stoped.
YES - there were probally better alternative options and methods, but the pit was what was executed. Was it the safer option than letting her continue to drive away from the police? Apparently the state of georgia thinks so. I don't really remember hearing after the pit was used succesfully in other high speed chases "yea sure they stopped that guy, but he might have died, they shouldn't have done it"
Do i think that what they (the police) did was the right thing? Yes, they stopped a dangerous driver. They reacted to a woman who thought it better to speed off at speeds over 100mph, thant take an 86mph speeding ticket.

(off-topic) Isn't there a law in LA now that states no more high speed chases unless well warranted [ie murder, terrorist attack, etcetc]?

 

[minendo]

Originally posted by: eigen
Agreed.People get so worked up about the word criminal,everyone on this board breaks on average 14 laws a day.It is a travesty that this happened. The police should aslo consider this from a liability issue, the innocent womans family is gonna sue ( and I hope win).They should have followed her from a helicopter, she was no danger to others, before the chase began.

Wrong. She was already doing 21mph over the speed limit before the chase began.

 

[sniperruff]

they should have used a tire spike and some road blocks and a chopper instead of killing them

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: eigen

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: FleshLight
Well if we're venturing into the hypothetical realm, what if the cops called off the chase and she lost control and plowed into a van full of preschoolers and rammed them into a tree? We just don't know...

What actually DID happen is that the Georgia State Patrol performed an extremely dangerous PIT maneuver causing a driver guilty of ONLY a misdemeanor to lose control and plow into a tree, killing her and her innocent passenger. But it's okay, because she was a criminal! :roll:

Agreed.People get so worked up about the word criminal,everyone on this board breaks on average 14 laws a day.It is a travesty that this happened. The police should aslo consider this from a liability issue, the innocent womans family is gonna sue ( and I hope win).They should have followed her from a helicopter, she was no danger to others, before the chase began.

yea, we break 14 laws a day... but most of us, being the sane, rational people we are, don't attempt flee from police.

 

[Gurck]

Since the link is dead, I'll assume this is a repost of the same thread we had yesterday? I'll reiterate that the police acted properly imo.

Originally posted by: XietyCOM

Originally posted by: slag
Most definitely yes.

They took a dangerous driver off the roadway.

I support what the officer(s) did 100%.

The only persons at fault were the people in the vehicle, specifically the driver.

How do you know the passenger was at fault?

We don't, but the police correctly assumed that the danger to the innocent (but probably criminal-minded, judging by his/her choice of company) passenger was outweighed by the danger to multiple other people.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: FleshLight
Well if we're venturing into the hypothetical realm, what if the cops called off the chase and she lost control and plowed into a van full of preschoolers and rammed them into a tree? We just don't know...

What actually DID happen is that the Georgia State Patrol performed an extremely dangerous PIT maneuver causing a driver guilty of ONLY a misdemeanor to lose control and plow into a tree, killing her and her innocent passenger. But it's okay, because she was a criminal! :roll:

how are you so sure the passenger was innocent? for all you know, he/she could have been all for running from the police. and yes, it is okay, because the driver made the choice to run from the police, she should have expected such actions to be taken against her.

Why should potentially lethal force be taken against someone with a suspended license?

IMO, it's akin to an officer pulling his Sig and firing when he's chasing after a shoplifter. The force must equal the crime, and the only danger to the police in this situation was self-inflicted (by continuing the chase in such busy conditions).

that's not true at all, she was severely over the speed limit... they needed to get her off the road ASAP

and furthermore, how are the police to know the whole story at the time of the chase? for all they know, she could have been running because she had a dead body in the car. you run from the police, it usually indicates you have good reason to.

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: FleshLight
Well if we're venturing into the hypothetical realm, what if the cops called off the chase and she lost control and plowed into a van full of preschoolers and rammed them into a tree? We just don't know...

What actually DID happen is that the Georgia State Patrol performed an extremely dangerous PIT maneuver causing a driver guilty of ONLY a misdemeanor to lose control and plow into a tree, killing her and her innocent passenger. But it's okay, because she was a criminal! :roll:

how are you so sure the passenger was innocent? for all you know, he/she could have been all for running from the police. and yes, it is okay, because the driver made the choice to run from the police, she should have expected such actions to be taken against her.

Why should potentially lethal force be taken against someone with a suspended license?

IMO, it's akin to an officer pulling his Sig and firing when he's chasing after a shoplifter. The force must equal the crime, and the only danger to the police in this situation was self-inflicted (by continuing the chase in such busy conditions).

that's not true at all, she was severely over the speed limit... they needed to get her off the road ASAP

and furthermore, how are the police to know the whole story at the time of the chase? for all they know, she could have been running because she had a dead body in the car. you run from the police, it usually indicates you have good reason to.

either that, or you've just sh!t your pants because the cops are on your tail and you hit the gas, which is probably the case here.

 

[jyates]

Poster child for what happens when you run from the law.
Sorry for her but she made her choices and made her stand
and she paid the price along with her passenger.

Pity

 

[brigden]

You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: FleshLight
Well if we're venturing into the hypothetical realm, what if the cops called off the chase and she lost control and plowed into a van full of preschoolers and rammed them into a tree? We just don't know...

What actually DID happen is that the Georgia State Patrol performed an extremely dangerous PIT maneuver causing a driver guilty of ONLY a misdemeanor to lose control and plow into a tree, killing her and her innocent passenger. But it's okay, because she was a criminal! :roll:

how are you so sure the passenger was innocent? for all you know, he/she could have been all for running from the police. and yes, it is okay, because the driver made the choice to run from the police, she should have expected such actions to be taken against her.

Why should potentially lethal force be taken against someone with a suspended license?

IMO, it's akin to an officer pulling his Sig and firing when he's chasing after a shoplifter. The force must equal the crime, and the only danger to the police in this situation was self-inflicted (by continuing the chase in such busy conditions).

that's not true at all, she was severely over the speed limit... they needed to get her off the road ASAP

and furthermore, how are the police to know the whole story at the time of the chase? for all they know, she could have been running because she had a dead body in the car. you run from the police, it usually indicates you have good reason to.

either that, or you've just sh!t your pants because the cops are on your tail and you hit the gas, which is probably the case here.

right, but that's not normal behavior, how are the cops supposed to guess that the person they're chasing has no good reason to run?

and btw, passengers should be more careful about who they ride with... don't get in the car of someone who's stupid like that!

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: jumpr

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should potentially lethal force be taken against someone with a suspended license?

IMO, it's akin to an officer pulling his Sig and firing when he's chasing after a shoplifter. The force must equal the crime, and the only danger to the police in this situation was self-inflicted (by continuing the chase in such busy conditions).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes but they only knew that she had a suspended license at the time of the chase. Why she was running away in the first place, during the chase, no one knew except her. Who knows she could have been a murderer but the thing is no one knew what motive she had. No one is a mind reader.

 

[Mardeth]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: FleshLight
Well if we're venturing into the hypothetical realm, what if the cops called off the chase and she lost control and plowed into a van full of preschoolers and rammed them into a tree? We just don't know...

What actually DID happen is that the Georgia State Patrol performed an extremely dangerous PIT maneuver causing a driver guilty of ONLY a misdemeanor to lose control and plow into a tree, killing her and her innocent passenger. But it's okay, because she was a criminal! :roll:

how are you so sure the passenger was innocent? for all you know, he/she could have been all for running from the police. and yes, it is okay, because the driver made the choice to run from the police, she should have expected such actions to be taken against her.

Why should potentially lethal force be taken against someone with a suspended license?

IMO, it's akin to an officer pulling his Sig and firing when he's chasing after a shoplifter. The force must equal the crime, and the only danger to the police in this situation was self-inflicted (by continuing the chase in such busy conditions).

I sincerely doubt that the cops knew what her crime was. Do you really think that the cop stopped the car, asked for the license, she didnt have one and the girl made a dash for it? The way I see it: she was speeding, cop decided to stop her. She refused. Raised serious suspicion, could have been a terrorist or something. I mean, its so easy to say that its wrong with the information you have now...

 

[DAWeinG]

Originally posted by: sniperruff

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: FleshLight
Well if we're venturing into the hypothetical realm, what if the cops called off the chase and she lost control and plowed into a van full of preschoolers and rammed them into a tree? We just don't know...

What actually DID happen is that the Georgia State Patrol performed an extremely dangerous PIT maneuver causing a driver guilty of ONLY a misdemeanor to lose control and plow into a tree, killing her and her innocent passenger. But it's okay, because she was a criminal! :roll:

how are you so sure the passenger was innocent? for all you know, he/she could have been all for running from the police. and yes, it is okay, because the driver made the choice to run from the police, she should have expected such actions to be taken against her.

Why should potentially lethal force be taken against someone with a suspended license?

IMO, it's akin to an officer pulling his Sig and firing when he's chasing after a shoplifter. The force must equal the crime, and the only danger to the police in this situation was self-inflicted (by continuing the chase in such busy conditions).

that's not true at all, she was severely over the speed limit... they needed to get her off the road ASAP

and furthermore, how are the police to know the whole story at the time of the chase? for all they know, she could have been running because she had a dead body in the car. you run from the police, it usually indicates you have good reason to.

either that, or you've just sh!t your pants because the cops are on your tail and you hit the gas, which is probably the case here.

That may very well probably be the case but cops are required to perform an action corresponding to the situation at hand, not after. But yes, it would be easy if we could go Minority Report on everyone who is about to break the law.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Mardeth

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: FleshLight
Well if we're venturing into the hypothetical realm, what if the cops called off the chase and she lost control and plowed into a van full of preschoolers and rammed them into a tree? We just don't know...

What actually DID happen is that the Georgia State Patrol performed an extremely dangerous PIT maneuver causing a driver guilty of ONLY a misdemeanor to lose control and plow into a tree, killing her and her innocent passenger. But it's okay, because she was a criminal! :roll:

how are you so sure the passenger was innocent? for all you know, he/she could have been all for running from the police. and yes, it is okay, because the driver made the choice to run from the police, she should have expected such actions to be taken against her.

Why should potentially lethal force be taken against someone with a suspended license?

IMO, it's akin to an officer pulling his Sig and firing when he's chasing after a shoplifter. The force must equal the crime, and the only danger to the police in this situation was self-inflicted (by continuing the chase in such busy conditions).

I sincerely doubt that the cops knew what her crime was. Do you really think that the cop stopped the car, asked for the license, she didnt have one and the girl made a dash for it? The way I see it: she was speeding, cop decided to stop her. She refused. Raised serious suspicion, could have been a terrorist or something. I mean, its so easy to say that its wrong with the information you have now...

Running from the police is a misdemeanor? Again, the police did what they had to do to ensure the safety of other motorists. Put some gauze on those bleeding hearts and apply pressure or soon enough you people will advocate letting murderers free :roll:

 

[cmdrmoocow]

Definitely the right thing.

A driver speeding like that, well, ok, that happens, so they go to pull her over.

She runs.

Ok... so now this is going through their mind: If she's running away from a speeding ticket, theres a lot more she's running from. Hence, they Really wanted her off the road.

 

[BurnItDwn]

The police did not do anything wrong.

The driver of the car SUV did make some mistakes.
For instance, not using the breaks and turn signal to slow down and pull over. The police were doing their job.

 

[FleshLight]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: FleshLight
Well if we're venturing into the hypothetical realm, what if the cops called off the chase and she lost control and plowed into a van full of preschoolers and rammed them into a tree? We just don't know...

What actually DID happen is that the Georgia State Patrol performed an extremely dangerous PIT maneuver causing a driver guilty of ONLY a misdemeanor to lose control and plow into a tree, killing her and her innocent passenger. But it's okay, because she was a criminal! :roll:

And they probably saved the lives of a van full of preschoolers.

 

[sniperruff]

and as i have recalled from many many episodes of COPS, cops usually stop chasing people after a while to prevent the criiminal to run into other people, or to prevent something like this to happen.

i think there should be a certain boundry of speed where you stop the engage and just follow. fish-tailing a car at 100mph is the same as battling a knife from a guy who has it at his throat. you try to persuade the person to stop psychologically, not physically.

as much as i hate criminals, i believe that all humans are innately innocent, and don't deserve to die

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: jumpr
What actually DID happen is that the Georgia State Patrol performed an extremely dangerous PIT maneuver causing a driver guilty of ONLY a misdemeanor to lose control and plow into a tree, killing her and her innocent passenger. But it's okay, because she was a criminal! :roll:

I read all your posts Jumpr, I am just quoting one to keep the quote chain down. There are a few misconceptions in your arguments which I will attempt to point out without insulting you .

#1. She was guilty of FAR more than just DWOL. She refused to stop for blue lights, ran from the cops, endangered every driver's life on the road. In Illinois fleeing from the cops is not a misdemeanor, it is punishable by 5-7 years (IIRC).

#2. Breaking off the persuit would not have ended the danger to the driver or anyone else. The driver was doing almost 90 when the cops first tried to pull her over. She was then chased for over an hour by a ton of cops. Do you think that as soon as the chase is over she will slow down and start doing the speed limit? hell no. She would run like a bat out of hell until she was in a safe location. Or she would have tried to loose the helio.

#3. The clip said the only PREVIOUS infraction was DWOL. Last I checked cops are not supernatural, and can not read minds. How were they supposed to know who was driving? they may have just shot someone, robbed a bank, had a nuke onboard, etc. THEY DON"T KNOW. They can't know unless the DRIVER STOPS. If the driver doesn't stop, they need to BE STOPPED by the cops. Until such time as there is a ray gun available to stop a vehicle, spike strips and the PIT are the few ways to stop the vehicle. At any speed, the PIT manuver is dangerous, usually for the person fleeing.

#4. All the driver had to do was pull over. IT WAS THE DRIVER'S choice to not stop. The only person to blame for this incident IS THE DRIVER. In fact, I would not be supprised if the driver is also found guilty of manslaughter of the passenger.

I am sad that the driver and passenger were killed. But the cops did what they had to do, and when it presented the lowest danger to other drivers on the road. I applaud the cops, and the persuit lead.

 

[KLin]

The driver shouldn't be the victim .They both died because of the driver's decision to break the law. It's a sad situation, but I'm not going to place any blame on the police officers that gave chase and got them off the road with that pit maneuver. just my opinion.

 

[thomsbrain]

yeah, it's totally ok to receive the death penalty without trial for allegedly speeding and evading an officer, and also to receive the death penalty for being a passenger in a car.

way to go, cops.

:|

 

[KLin]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
yeah, it's totally ok to receive the death penalty without trial for allegedly speeding and evading an officer, and also to receive the death penalty for being a passenger in a car.

way to go, cops.

:|

their deaths aren't the police's fault. It's the driver's fault.

 

[sniperruff]

Originally posted by: KLin

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
yeah, it's totally ok to receive the death penalty without trial for allegedly speeding and evading an officer, and also to receive the death penalty for being a passenger in a car.

way to go, cops.

:|

their deaths aren't the police's fault. It's the driver's fault.

its her parent's fault for not buying a volvo, or a H2