Did Iran shoot down the airliner?

[brandonbull]

Good boy. Push those talking points. Push 'em hard.

And push those facts in your rebuttal.

 

[Vic]

I guess the Democrats will add "Making Iran shoot down a commercial jets full of Iranian citizens" to the Articles of Impeachment. What a joke. Why won't the Dems come out and admit that they support Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea more than the United States?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1178986524630802432

Trump: Kim Jong Un and I 'fell in love'

President Trump said he and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un "fell in love."

thehill.com

 

[brandonbull]

Trump Co is spewing a lot of rhetoric about how they stand with the Iranian people. Those same people he banned from visiting the US because they're muslim.

"Muslim" ban?

 

[Victorian Gray]

I guess the Democrats will add "Making Iran shoot down a commercial jets full of Iranian citizens" to the Articles of Impeachment. What a joke. Why won't the Dems come out and admit that they support Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea more than the United States?

Keep pushing those talking points. The ministry appreciate your efforts.

 

[brycejones]

I guess the Democrats will add "Making Iran shoot down a commercial jets full of Iranian citizens" to the Articles of Impeachment. What a joke. Why won't the Dems come out and admit that they support Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea more than the United States?

That is just a stupid statement on your part.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Why won't the Dems come out and admit that they support Russia, China, Iran, and North Korea more than the United States?

Who was it that sent his bimbo blond daughter to schmooze the NK dictator?

 

[Muse]

duh

 

[Kaido]

I know we have our differences of political opinions in this country, but maaaaaaan I'm glad I'm in the US & not somewhere else:

IRGC arrest person who uploaded video of missile striking Ukrainian plane | The Jerusalem Post

The results of the investigation will presented to the public, Fars said, without providing additional details.

www.jpost.com

IRGC arrest person who uploaded video of missile striking Ukrainian plane

30 people have been arrested in protests that were sparked by the Iranian government's failure to admit that they had shot down the plane. The protests continued for the fourth day on Tuesday.

Upload a video, go to jail? Protest the government covering up the fact that they screwed up, go to jail? Yeesh!

 

[Muse]

I know we have our differences of political opinions in this country, but maaaaaaan I'm glad I'm in the US & not somewhere else:

IRGC arrest person who uploaded video of missile striking Ukrainian plane | The Jerusalem Post

The results of the investigation will presented to the public, Fars said, without providing additional details.

www.jpost.com

Upload a video, go to jail? Protest the government covering up the fact that they screwed up, go to jail? Yeesh!

Yeah, I could hardly believe that either. They should overthrow that government.

 

[Kaido]

Yeah, I could hardly believe that either. They should overthrow that government.

tbh I think modern communications technology is going to be the cause of a LOT of governments being overthrown. People want & deserve democracy because no one wants to be ruled by crazy people who jail & kill their citizens for dumb reasons, and now that we have live video, photos, text, etc. the world is starting to see how other nations behave, as well as the citizens within their own countries.

Some countries are just so big & strong that it's going to take a lot of time, effort, and unfortunately bloodshed to make it happen...just look at the insanity of the protests in China & Hong Kong. Current figures say around 10 percent of the Uighur population of Xinjiang is locked up. They're saying they're basically repeating the Holocaust in China right now, just really really horrible stuff:

This dissident leaked explosive documents depicting China’s brutal treatment of Uighurs

The U.S. says more than a million Uighur Muslims are in detention or camps in China’s vast northwest Xinjiang province. The Chinese government counters that it is focused on the “re-education” of extremists. But in her first television interview, a Uighur dissident describes this Chinese...

www.pbs.org

This type of behavior has worked in the past, but it isn't going to stand for very long as information gets out there through technology like social media, especially as people collectively get fed up with how things are because they are aware of it on a nationwide scale. One of my buddies is from Egypt & goes back every couple of years & the stories he tells are just insane with what's gone down over the last decade, and how it compared to his childhood there. I wonder how long it's going to take places like North Korea to get up to speed on treating everyone equally & with respect, because it's so locked down there.

Like I said...despite the problems we have in this country, I'm extremely grateful that I live in America...the structure of our Constitution, our melting pot, the value of the American dream (which I still personally believe is still alive, despite what the media advertises) and other unique qualities make it a pretty nice place to live, in general. Even as divisive as Trump has been, nobody died during the elections, no civil wars were started, and no one gets to be king of the country here forever because terms are limited, which means our system of checks & balances is a lot more effective than what other countries have!

 

[thilanliyan]

tbh I think modern communications technology is going to be the cause of a LOT of governments being overthrown. People want & deserve democracy because no one wants to be ruled by crazy people who jail & kill their citizens for dumb reasons, and now that we have live video, photos, text, etc. the world is starting to see how other nations behave, as well as the citizens within their own countries.

That works if social media is not being controlled like it is in China. They control it specifically to avoid what you are describing.

 

[pmv]

I know we have our differences of political opinions in this country, but maaaaaaan I'm glad I'm in the US & not somewhere else:

IRGC arrest person who uploaded video of missile striking Ukrainian plane | The Jerusalem Post

The results of the investigation will presented to the public, Fars said, without providing additional details.

www.jpost.com

Upload a video, go to jail? Protest the government covering up the fact that they screwed up, go to jail? Yeesh!

Yeah, it's like that in an awful lot of countries. In fact I would guestimate it's that way for a majority of the world's population, considering it would include China. And it's not clear if its getting better or worse. Looked at in a long time-scale and maybe it's improved, but the more short-term trend seems to be for it to get worse.

 

[Muse]

That works if social media is not being controlled like it is in China. They control it specifically to avoid what you are describing.

It is that kind of censorship that results in taking it to the streets, as we see in Hong Kong (on steroids). It happened to some degree in America in the late 1960's. It wasn't social media then, it was TV, newspapers, magazines, etc. that weren't reporting factually and without major bias. Why? You can come to your own conclusions, it may not have been by virtue of direct government actions but the effect was the same.

 

[zinfamous]

Weren't you one of the Qanon wokers?

who, Dari? probably. He definitely comes around here when he's looking for advice on how to murder his girlfriend, though.

a true nut.

 

[Kaido]

That works if social media is not being controlled like it is in China. They control it specifically to avoid what you are describing.

China's social credit system & facial recognition system gives me the willies man. It was crazy with the protests, because China banned masks so they could facial ID you & lock you up & throw away the key. Like, I'm not totally opposed to the whole Big Brother idea, because I do think we need a level of security that makes sense, but I also don't think that we should be micro-managed & tracked mercilessly with no gray area. It's like stoplight cameras...well, what if there's an emergency, like you're taking someone to the hospital or something? You need that flexibility to account for individual situations, which only a human being can really review effectively.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

tbh I think modern communications technology is going to be the cause of a LOT of governments being overthrown. People want & deserve democracy because no one wants to be ruled by crazy people who jail & kill their citizens for dumb reasons, and now that we have live video, photos, text, etc. the world is starting to see how other nations behave, as well as the citizens within their own countries.

Some countries are just so big & strong that it's going to take a lot of time, effort, and unfortunately bloodshed to make it happen...just look at the insanity of the protests in China & Hong Kong. Current figures say around 10 percent of the Uighur population of Xinjiang is locked up. They're saying they're basically repeating the Holocaust in China right now, just really really horrible stuff:

This dissident leaked explosive documents depicting China’s brutal treatment of Uighurs

The U.S. says more than a million Uighur Muslims are in detention or camps in China’s vast northwest Xinjiang province. The Chinese government counters that it is focused on the “re-education” of extremists. But in her first television interview, a Uighur dissident describes this Chinese...

www.pbs.org

This type of behavior has worked in the past, but it isn't going to stand for very long as information gets out there through technology like social media, especially as people collectively get fed up with how things are because they are aware of it on a nationwide scale. One of my buddies is from Egypt & goes back every couple of years & the stories he tells are just insane with what's gone down over the last decade, and how it compared to his childhood there. I wonder how long it's going to take places like North Korea to get up to speed on treating everyone equally & with respect, because it's so locked down there.

Like I said...despite the problems we have in this country, I'm extremely grateful that I live in America...the structure of our Constitution, our melting pot, the value of the American dream (which I still personally believe is still alive, despite what the media advertises) and other unique qualities make it a pretty nice place to live, in general. Even as divisive as Trump has been, nobody died during the elections, no civil wars were started, and no one gets to be king of the country here forever because terms are limited, which means our system of checks & balances is a lot more effective than what other countries have!

An interesting facet of global communications and global social networking, I personally feel, is that it will lead to something vaguely between a worldwide government and a distributed governance model. Recent events like the HK protests, the Iran assassination, Australia fires, etc. have shown that in some cases, citizens of other countries can actually exert enough influence to affect change in the country where a given crisis is, due to their knowledge shared across the internet. It's created this system where all the average schmucks are connected with a common thread, and feel the need to share responsibility or at least pain for events. Given that, it's not hard to see a 'Woke 2.0' appear where most normie people feel as though there should be some kind of globally shared burden for catastrophes, and vote/chastise accordingly. Country governments will be seen more as 'states' to an overarching 'world government', though more in the ye olden United States model where the notion of a federal govt was a very, very small thing (think UN vs countries).

There'll be a lot of resistance to something like this of course, but I can see it happening eventually (generation or two), assuming we don't die from climate change first.

 

[Dari]

I'm having trouble seeing the derangement in holding leaders accountable for the unintended consequences of their decisions. While I hold Iran entirely responsible for downing the plane, it also seems reasonable IMO to fault the President for not knowing (or not caring) that escalating tensions in the ME was certain to result in civilian casualties. Perhaps the problem lies in the false belief that those 2 positions must be mutually exclusive?

This is ridiculous and a left-wing fantasy. It's like saying if a robber holds up a bank and the cops arrive. Then the robber gets nervous and shoots a hostage, it's the cops' fault? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? It's the robber's fault 100% for his own actions. Truth is, Iran's militias in Iraq had been shelling our bases for six to eight weeks prior to the American contractor's death, based on order from Soleimani (However, the ayatollah khameini told soleimani not to kill any Americans). Trump did nothing. After the death, Trump attacked the militia directly responsible. The Iranians, let by the terror general Soleimani, thought this was disproportionate and proceeded to attack the US embassy. Trump responded by killing that general. Notice how all of this took place in Iraq. The iranians sought revenge for their terror general and decided to expand the theater of war into Iran proper by firing missiles from Iran. Then they got nervous at the misery that would've followed had more Americans died and shot down an airliner. Follow? Trump and the Pentagon kept everything within iraq. It was Iran that brought the war to Iran. So, blaming Trump for the airliner being shot down by Iran's military is something someone suffering from TDS would say but it's not reality. Just the fact that we're debating this is sad. You're basically blaming good men for any fallout that occurs after they respond to evil. Your TDS is clouding your judgement.

 

[fskimospy]

This is ridiculous and a left-wing fantasy. It's like saying if a robber holds up a bank and the cops arrive. Then the robber gets nervous and shoots a hostage, it's the cops' fault? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? It's the robber's fault 100% for his own actions. Truth is, Iran's militias in Iraq had been shelling our bases for six to eight weeks prior to the American contractor's death, based on order from Soleimani (However, the ayatollah khameini told soleimani not to kill any Americans). Trump did nothing. After the death, Trump attacked the militia directly responsible. The Iranians, let by the terror general Soleimani, thought this was disproportionate and proceeded to attack the US embassy. Trump responded by killing that general. Notice how all of this took place in Iraq. The iranians sought revenge for their terror general and decided to expand the theater of war into Iran proper by firing missiles from Iran. Then they got nervous at the misery that would've followed had more Americans died and shot down an airliner. Follow? Trump and the Pentagon kept everything within iraq. It was Iran that brought the war to Iran. So, blaming Trump for the airliner being shot down by Iran's military is something someone suffering from TDS would say but it's not reality. Just the fact that we're debating this is sad. You're basically blaming good men for any fallout that occurs after they respond to evil. Your TDS is clouding your judgement.

How brainwashed does someone have to be to believe this nonsense.

Iran brought the war to Iran because they fired missiles from their territory after we assassinated a top ranking member of their government? lol. Talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome. Imagine how much we would laugh if someone said ‘This is all the United States’ fault because they launched some missiles at Iran after they assassinated the Secretary of Defense.’

The US chose to escalate the conflict and so we bear some measure of responsibility for the results. This is just common sense if you put rational thinking ahead of politics.

 

[Dari]

How brainwashed does someone have to be to believe this nonsense.

Iran brought the war to Iran because they fired missiles from their territory after we assassinated a top ranking member of their government? lol. Talk about Trump Derangement Syndrome. Imagine how much we would laugh if someone said ‘This is all the United States’ fault because they launched some missiles at Iran after they assassinated the Secretary of Defense.’

The US chose to escalate the conflict and so we bear some measure of responsibility for the results. This is just common sense if you put rational thinking ahead of politics.

Wow, how delusional are you? This general was in Iraq leading the many Shi'a militias controlled by Iran. He was telling these a-holes to fire at our soldiers. For weeks Trump did nothing. He decided to act after an American death. This Iranian general introduced some wicked weapons against US personnel in Iraq. Here is an article about your beloved Iranian general and the weapons he introduced against American soldiers in Iraq. Truth is, he's been fighting against the US for decades but you sound incredulous that Trump killed him. WTF is wrong with you?

Soleimani's legacy: The gruesome, high-tech IEDs that haunted US troops in Iraq

The targeted killing of Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani the head of Iran's Quds Force refocused attention on Soleimani's legacy in Iraq, where sophisticated weapons and tactics he oversaw menaced U.S. troops for years, leaving a trail of dead and wounded service members.

www.stripes.com

Brian Castner combed over the armored vehicle, mostly intact aside from entry and exit holes tipped with molten copper that had since cooled.

The U.S. soldiers who had been inside had already been medevaced near Kirkuk that summer in 2006, leaving the Air Force bomb technician alone with the vehicle. Pools of blood simmered under the Iraqi sun, near what one soldier left behind.

"There was still one foot left in the Humvee," Castner said.

The targeted U.S. killing Thursday of Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani, the head of Iran's elite Quds Force, has heightened tensions between Iran and the United States.

But it also resurfaced Soleimani's legacy in Iraq, where sophisticated weapons and tactics he oversaw menaced U.S. troops for years, leaving a trail of dead and wounded service members.

The vehicle that Castner inspected was eviscerated by an explosively formed penetrator (EFP), a weapon of Iranian engineering that was salted across battlefields wherever Iran-backed Shiite militias and fighters gathered, such as Kirkuk and Baghdad's Sadr City, he told The Washington Post on Friday.

The weapons, compact but potent, are deployed against armored vehicles in a way similar to traditional IEDs, but are much deadlier and more effective, Castner said.

Shaped like a coffee can but a little smaller, with a slightly concave end, the device is packed with plastic explosives that turn a copper plate into molten slugs that barrel through several inches of armor, sending molten shards tumbling through bodies and vehicle parts.

"They were really bad," Castner said, and by far the most-dreaded explosive device type he encountered because of their deadly efficiency.

EFPs killed at least 196 U.S. troops and wounded nearly 900 between 2005 and 2011, defense officials revealed in 2015, and Castner said a high number of amputations throughout the war were the direct result of the weapons. In the 2006 attack, slugs took the legs off a soldier and a gunner, he wrote in his memoir, "The Long Walk."

The copper slugs, which form into a tadpole shape, can reach Mach 6, or 2,000 meters per second, The Washington Post previously reported. By comparison, a .50-caliber round fired from a sniper rifle has a muzzle velocity of less than 900 meters a second.

Shaped charges have roots in World War II, but their variants, EFPs, were employed by Hezbollah as early as the 1990s against Israelis before migrating to Iraq in 2004, according to the U.S. Army's history of the war.

Soleimani's Quds Force provided training and logistics to militants in Iraq, along with far-reaching EFP supply routes and factories inside the country, the history said, where knowledge and tips on their construction filled CD-ROMs circulated among bombmakers.

Many were concealed in foam blocks made to look like curbs and rocks, with a telltale indicator of a passive infrared lens peeking through that earned the nickname the "Eye of Allah" from U.S. troops.

Iranian-backed bombmakers were also creative in their defeat of U.S. countermeasures, Castner said.

The infrared laser, operating in a manner similar to the safety beam used for garage doors, is used to trigger the explosion. So-called "rhino" horns were attached to vehicles to set them off prematurely, but bombmakers would revise their design to account for the horns and revamp the geometry of the array to make sure the slugs passed through drivers, passenger compartments and engines, he said.

"We honestly did not believe that these guys were capable of doing this kind of stuff," one senior defense official told The Post in 2007, speaking of Iranian foes. "We underestimated them."

The U.S. spent billions to curtail the threat of IEDs, but the killing continued long after measures such as radio signal jammers and other equipment saturated the country. The number of EFP attacks peaked in 2008, Military Times reported, and around 300 other deaths were linked to weapons from Iran.

Hundreds of victims of EFPs and family members of victims are seeking damages from Iran in federal court for their role in deploying the weapon, Military Times reported.

Quds Force activity in Iraq reached further than marbling roads with EFPs, and Soleimani's influence was imprinted on various Shiite militias that fought U.S. troops, such as Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army, which the cleric called on to reactivate in the wake of Soleimani's death.

One of the most daring insurgent operations of the war occurred in January 2007 in Karbala, south of Baghdad, that resulted in the deaths of five U.S. soldiers. Militants, brandishing U.S.-style uniforms, forged ID cards and using passable English entered a combined U.S.-Iraqi base in a column of SUVs.

A U.S. soldier was killed there and four others were abducted and driven miles away. Three were later found dead in and near one of the abandoned SUVs, and the other died on the way to a hospital, the Associated Press reported in 2007.

"The precision of the attack, the equipment used and the possible use of explosives to destroy the military vehicles in the compound suggests that the attack was well rehearsed prior to execution," a defense spokesman later said.

Officials later said the operation bore the fingerprints of Quds Force

Still think he was an innocent doe lost in the woods? Well, he had a United Nations travel ban imposed on him. Had he stayed in Iran he'd still be alive.

 

[fskimospy]

Wow, how delusional are you? This general was in Iraq leading the many Shi'a militias controlled by Iran. He was telling these a-holes to fire at our soldiers. For weeks Trump did nothing. He decided to act after an American death. This Iranian general introduced some wicked weapons against US personnel in Iraq. Here is an article about your beloved Iranian general and the weapons he introduced against American soldiers in Iraq. Truth is, he's been fighting against the US for decades but you sound incredulous that Trump killed him. WTF is wrong with you?

Soleimani's legacy: The gruesome, high-tech IEDs that haunted US troops in Iraq

The targeted killing of Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani the head of Iran's Quds Force refocused attention on Soleimani's legacy in Iraq, where sophisticated weapons and tactics he oversaw menaced U.S. troops for years, leaving a trail of dead and wounded service members.

www.stripes.com

Still think he was an innocent doe lost in the woods? Well, he had a United Nations travel ban imposed on him. Had he stayed in Iran he'd still be alive.

I didn’t say anything about his guilt or innocence so I don’t know who or what you think you’re arguing against.

Again this is common sense. The US chose to escalate the conflict by assassinating a high ranking member of a foreign government. We knew we were escalating the conflict, that was the whole point. When you choose to escalate a conflict sometimes bad things happen and so we bear some responsibility for that.

Not sure how much TDS someone has to be suffering from where suddenly the US has no responsibility for the easily foreseeable results of its actions.

 

[Dari]

I didn’t say anything about his guilt or innocence so I don’t know who or what you think you’re arguing against.

Again this is common sense. The US chose to escalate the conflict by assassinating a high ranking member of a foreign government. We knew we were escalating the conflict, that was the whole point. When you choose to escalate a conflict sometimes bad things happen and so we bear some responsibility for that.

Not sure how much TDS someone has to be suffering from where suddenly the US has no responsibility for the easily foreseeable results of its actions.

Wow, so you preferred we continue a tit-for-tat encounter with these iranians? They kill one of us and we kill one of them? The president has made it crystal clear he's not playing that game. The Iranians killed one American so we killed 27 of them. They then attacked our embassy so we go after the hidden power. Call it whatever you want but Iran is not our equal and we won't play by their rules. I mean, they want us out of the Middle east, right? Well, Trump wants us out of the middle east. Both camps were on the same page as far as that was concerned. What was not acceptable is thinking you can kill our men and women and not become a target. The terror general put himself in the theater. He chose to come to iraq and plan his next attack. What he didn't expect was that his invincibility shield had worn off and he was now fair game.There is no doubt in my mind that Trump and Co. were sick of this $hit. With that said, all this happened in Iraq. If some other Iranian moron had over-reacted and killed innocents in Thailand or Argentina or Israel, would you be blaming Trump too? Is that your type of common sense?

 

[IronWing]

The Iranian general was in Iraq at the invitation of the Iraqi government as was the US. We murdered a fellow house guest, delivering a grave insult to the people of Iraq. In doing so, we also murdered five of our hosts.

 

[fskimospy]

Wow, so you preferred we continue a tit-for-tat encounter with these iranians? They kill one of us and we kill one of them? The president has made it crystal clear he's not playing that game. The Iranians killed one American so we killed 27 of them. They then attacked our embassy so we go after the hidden power. Call it whatever you want but Iran is not our equal and we won't play by their rules. I mean, they want us out of the Middle east, right? Well, Trump wants us out of the middle east. Both camps were on the same page as far as that was concerned. What was not acceptable is thinking you can kill our men and women and not become a target. The terror general put himself in the theater. He chose to come to iraq and plan his next attack. What he didn't expect was that his invincibility shield had worn off and he was now fair game.There is no doubt in my mind that Trump and Co. were sick of this $hit. With that said, all this happened in Iraq. If some other Iranian moron had over-reacted and killed innocents in Thailand or Argentina or Israel, would you be blaming Trump too? Is that your type of common sense?

I’m not sure why you are getting so worked up about what should be common sense.

Trump chose to escalate the situation and that raises the probability of people getting killed. If it happens we have some responsibility for that. Now maybe you think killing Soleimani was a good idea anyway and was worth the increased violence. I think that’s wrong, but whatever. The idea that we aren’t responsible for the easily foreseeable outcomes of our actions is silly though. That’s a child’s argument.

I think we both agree that Trump is an incompetent when it comes to foreign policy so he probably didn’t understand the consequences of his actions. That doesn’t relieve him of them though.

 

[pmv]

This is ridiculous and a left-wing fantasy. It's like saying if a robber holds up a bank and the cops arrive. Then the robber gets nervous and shoots a hostage, it's the cops' fault? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? It's the robber's fault 100% for his own actions. Truth is, Iran's militias in Iraq had been shelling our bases for six to eight weeks prior to the American contractor's death, based on order from Soleimani (However, the ayatollah khameini told soleimani not to kill any Americans). Trump did nothing. After the death, Trump attacked the militia directly responsible. The Iranians, let by the terror general Soleimani, thought this was disproportionate and proceeded to attack the US embassy. Trump responded by killing that general. Notice how all of this took place in Iraq. The iranians sought revenge for their terror general and decided to expand the theater of war into Iran proper by firing missiles from Iran. Then they got nervous at the misery that would've followed had more Americans died and shot down an airliner. Follow? Trump and the Pentagon kept everything within iraq. It was Iran that brought the war to Iran. So, blaming Trump for the airliner being shot down by Iran's military is something someone suffering from TDS would say but it's not reality. Just the fact that we're debating this is sad. You're basically blaming good men for any fallout that occurs after they respond to evil. Your TDS is clouding your judgement.

If the cops react by assassinating another gangster associated with the robber, provoking the robber to shoot the hostages, then yes, it's partially the cops fault. Do you realise how stupid it sounds to ask how stupid that sounds?

The dilemma of how 'the good guys' should respond when the bad guys are very likely to react in a way that will cause innocent third-parties to suffer provides much of what passes for moral complexity in any number of action or superhero movies. It's generally acknowledged to present a moral quandry.

Yes, notice it all took place in Iraq - a country right next door to Iran, with strong cultural and religious links to it, and thousands of miles away from the US. Maybe you should notice that?

 

[Vic]

This is ridiculous and a left-wing fantasy. It's like saying if a robber holds up a bank and the cops arrive. Then the robber gets nervous and shoots a hostage, it's the cops' fault? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? It's the robber's fault 100% for his own actions. Truth is, Iran's militias in Iraq had been shelling our bases for six to eight weeks prior to the American contractor's death, based on order from Soleimani (However, the ayatollah khameini told soleimani not to kill any Americans). Trump did nothing. After the death, Trump attacked the militia directly responsible. The Iranians, let by the terror general Soleimani, thought this was disproportionate and proceeded to attack the US embassy. Trump responded by killing that general. Notice how all of this took place in Iraq. The iranians sought revenge for their terror general and decided to expand the theater of war into Iran proper by firing missiles from Iran. Then they got nervous at the misery that would've followed had more Americans died and shot down an airliner. Follow? Trump and the Pentagon kept everything within iraq. It was Iran that brought the war to Iran. So, blaming Trump for the airliner being shot down by Iran's military is something someone suffering from TDS would say but it's not reality. Just the fact that we're debating this is sad. You're basically blaming good men for any fallout that occurs after they respond to evil. Your TDS is clouding your judgement.

Simple logic is a 'left-wing fantasy,' while foreign policy is a kids' game of cops and robbers. I'm quite certain you don't realize how stupid that sounds.

Anyway, I don't share your unquestioning devotion to authority figures. Meaning that I have criticized every contemporary President's foreign policy in the ME, not just Trump's. Follow?