Did Atari not learn anything from EA and 3 activation limits?!

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: NoWhereM
It's possible that 4 people out of those 50,000 purchased the game after intentionally using an invalid serial number. It's also possible that 4 people who purchased the game mistyped or misread their activation code and were locked out of the game they just purchased by the activation server which banned their IP address.

Given the data he reports, he states that over 50,000 people tried to activate the game using a single serial number.

One Riddick serial number alone had over 50,000 activation attempts, so people do try and pirate games.

Then he goes on to report that 4 people had issues with DRM, and all of them were originally trying to use illegal serials

Only four people have been unable to play on the PC due to DRM. In all cases the parties involved first tried to activate illegal serials. They were banned initially but then were manually unbanned when they purchased legal copies of the game.

So they were banned initially (most likely using their IP address), but were unbanned after purchasing legit serials.

So he didn't intentionally mean to report that out of the 50,000+ only 4 additional sales were made, but given the data he provides it does in fact lead to that conclusion. If any more of that 50,000 were to buy a legit copies they would have previously been banned and thus have to contact Atari, but only 4 did, as he points out in his statement

Anyway, that's how I came up with that. But it's all there for anyone to see.

 

[NoWhereM]

I think I understand what you're saying and I'm willing to accept that as the correct interpretation of what Atari was reporting. I think I'll play it safe and just wait regardless. I've got a lot of games stocked away right now that I haven't played yet, so I can afford to just sit back and wait.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: NoWhereM
I think I understand what you're saying and I'm willing to accept that as the correct interpretation of what Atari was reporting. I think I'll play it safe and just wait regardless. I've got a lot of games stocked away right now that I haven't played yet, so I can afford to just sit back and wait.

Same here. If they drop the install limits completely or release an unprotected executable like promised, i'll gladly buy the game at that point. I'm not holding my breath though..

I as well have a few games that I haven't even opened. I'm working on Dark Sector right now, then Drakensang. After that I may finally install the Titian Quest copy that I picked up from one of the gogamer sales.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Red Irish
chizow, if I could convince you to stop using terms such as lies/liars, misinformation, pirates and BS every time you refer to those of us who are opposed to draconian DRM, that would be a start. Incidentally, I actually like "fallacious arguments", it has a nice ring to it.

Sure you could, that would of course, be contingent on you actually demonstrating you're not a liar intent on spreading misinformation in an attempt to promote your anti-DRM/pro-Piracy agenda. Up until this point, you've said and done nothing that would make me think otherwise.

I've systematically broken down and refuted all of your claims about DRM doing nothing to prevent piracy, only harming the end-user, when that's clearly not the case. Riddick's DRM emphasizes this point in refuting many of those fallacies, as it shows that effective DRM is absolutely effective in preventing piracy when you've repeatedly claimed otherwise. Are you disputing the fact you've claimed otherwise? No need to lie.

You are openly hostile as soon as you appear on any thread relating to DRM and the thread soon breaks down into meaningless and aggressive exchanges that often have little to do with the topic of the thread.

Of course I'm going to be hostile when the same few individuals continue to perpetuate the same lies and misinformation from thread to thread. As for the thread breaking down into meaningless and aggressive exchanges, I'd say its more like me breaking down your arguments with facts, external references and sources and you and the rest of the "scene" replying with baseless accusations about employment. Apparently I'm French this week donning my TaGES beret. They still wear berets in France right? :laugh:

I will bear my part of the responsibility for that, will you bear yours? Can we agree to disagree, accept that we have diametrically opposed philosophies and yet still try to ensure that debate occurs in a calm and civilised manner? I'm sorry, but defending the community against misinformation is no excuse for entering a thread, where people are expressing genuine concerns, and initiating a witch-hunt: no one has asked you to take on this role.

As I've stated early on, if you and people like you weren't intent on spreading misinformation and poorly researched BS about DRM, I would never have to post in one of these threads. The reality of it is, most people DO want to know how DRM actually works without having to wade through pages of bullshit and anti-DRM propaganda, so that they can make an informed decision based on the merits and flaws of said DRM.

Moreover, I am convinced that you could add meaningful input to any debate on DRM, so why not share you knowledge and perspective without trying to ridicule other posters. For my part, I will endeavour to do the same.

Uh, no, I attack the credibility and veracity of the information first and foremost, and it just so happens the source or author's credibility just so happens to come into question as well. That's very different than the baseless accusations about employment levied by a certain few individuals.

If this DRM is effective in combatting piracy, that does not make me unhappy, I don't like pirates. However, if it limits my ability to resell the game in the process, or causes inconveniences in terms of updates/new systems, then yes, I am unhappy. Whether or not this deters anyone from purchasing the game is a personal decision after that.

Which is another direct contradiction to your previous statements about DRM. Again, I'll ask you, what problem do you have with SecuROM given it does not limit your ability to resell your game, and does not pose any of the same inconvieniences as Riddick, provided you uninstall the game first?

As for limiting your ability to resell (or install, or whatever else), it clearly doesn't, as you haven't purchased the game. Its quite obvious the people who are actually impacted are busy playing and enjoying the game, not whining about its DRM and resellability on internet forums.

Have a pleasant day, and no, no irony intended.

P.S. thanks for the writing tips, and yes, irony is intended.

Oh I will, I get to play Riddick tonite after work. No pun (or crack) intended.

chizow, I was ignoring you as I began to suspect that you had no intelligent input to offer. Clearly I should have stuck with that line of action.

I'm happy for you, you obviously feel that you have won something, that's nice. However, I am sorry that you feel that possible violations of your own rights and the rights of others are no cause for concern. Forgive me if I refrain from joining in your celebrations.

I obviously have responses for all of the points you attempt to make, but I refuse to assist you in derailing another thread with meaningless exchanges and I am not about to address issues from other threads where you were made to look like an ass. I obviously made a big impact on you as you are unwilling to let things go.

The fact that you have attempted to take credit for information previously presented by other posters on this thread, well, that just about sums you up: it's all about winning, appearing to be more intelligent and attempting to ridicule fellow forum users, but when you dig beyond the authoritative and brash façade, we find a juvenile and petulant individual who is hell-bent on creating unnecessary controversy and a hostile environment. That's sad, really sad. With regards to your accustions of contradicting myself, all I have to say is that I have never wilfully attempted to deceive other forum users by rewriting what I had previously written. We both know that you can't say the same.

However, you are at least consistent, because, guess what chizow, you have just confirmed that you are an ass, again. I suggest that you stick to attempting to ferret out the Intel employees over at the overclocking section. Perhaps there, your crusade against what you define as misinformation will meet with wider acclaim.

I will not dignify any further posts from you with a reply, so you can "win" and get the last word in: congratulations.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: NoWhereM
I think I understand what you're saying and I'm willing to accept that as the correct interpretation of what Atari was reporting. I think I'll play it safe and just wait regardless. I've got a lot of games stocked away right now that I haven't played yet, so I can afford to just sit back and wait.

Same here. If they drop the install limits completely or release an unprotected executable like promised, i'll gladly buy the game at that point. I'm not holding my breath though..

I as well have a few games that I haven't even opened. I'm working on Dark Sector right now, then Drakensang. After that I may finally install the Titian Quest copy that I picked up from one of the gogamer sales.

:thumbsup:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: NoWhereM
I think I understand what you're saying and I'm willing to accept that as the correct interpretation of what Atari was reporting. I think I'll play it safe and just wait regardless. I've got a lot of games stocked away right now that I haven't played yet, so I can afford to just sit back and wait.

i'd like you all to know that FarCry2 has the same activation limit
- BUT - you are asked to revoke an activation if you reach your limit as i had to last night
.. no i didn't read the readme

and i may have to end up calling Ubi as i have another installation on another partition to complete
- i'll let you know how it goes
[i actually did a uninstall on that partition; but evidently it failed ]

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
chizow, I was ignoring you as I began to suspect that you had no intelligent input to offer. Clearly I should have stuck with that line of action.

Yes its obvious you choose what to ignore and what to reply to, and in this case, you've once again chosen to ignore answering questions that would once again catch you in a lie and contradiction. Again, simple enough question, what problems do you have with SecuROM given it has none of the issues you've claimed issue with this form of Tages Activation DRM?

I'm happy for you, you obviously feel that you have won something, that's nice. However, I am sorry that you feel that possible violations of your own rights and the rights of others are no cause for concern. Forgive me if I refrain from joining in your celebrations.

Won something? No, I'm happy because the truth has once again prevailed over misinformation and that there's no need for me or anyone else with a legitimately purchased copy of the game to worry about DRM limitations that they probably never would've encountered in the first place. There are no violations of my own rights, others have gone down that road and how'd that turn out? Oh right, it helped prove you and others didn't even know how SecuROM worked in the first place.

I obviously have responses for all of the points you attempt to make, but I refuse to assist you in derailing another thread with meaningless exchanges and I am not about to address issues from other threads where you were made to look like an ass. I obviously made a big impact on you as you are unwilling to let things go.

LOL, I've once again shown how a certain few individuals are intent on spreading unfounded misinformation and hysteria about DRM rather than uncovering the truth. In doing so, it becomes increasingly obvious said individuals will say anything to further their point and ignore questions or evidence that directly refutes their claims or shows them to be liars or hypocrites.

The fact that you have attempted to take credit for information previously presented by other posters on this thread, well, that just about sums you up: it's all about winning, appearing to be more intelligent and attempting to ridicule fellow forum users, but when you dig beyond the authoritative and brash façade, we find a juvenile and petulant individual who is hell-bent on creating controversy where none exists. That's sad, really sad. With regards to your accustions of contradicting myself, all I have to say is that I have never wilfully attempted to deceive other forum users by rewriting what I had previously written. We both know that you can't say the same.

Take credit for information presented by someone else? Rofl what the hell are you talking about? HAHA. No one's keeping score, if we were you would've been mercy ruled pages ago. :laugh: If we were deducting points for quoting something we agreed with, you'd be down to what? -45 points (and 2-3 posts)? HAHAHAH.

As for attempting to deceive other forum users by rewriting what was previously written? Are you referring to my clear use of satire in misquoting Mindcycle because he didn't catch an obvious misquote of something I said? LMAO good luck with that one, even he got a laugh out of it.

However, you are at least consistent, because, guess what chizow, you've just looked like an ass again. I suggest that you stick to attempting to ferret out the Intel employees over at the overclocking section. Perhaps there, your crusade against what you define as misinformation will meet with wider acclaim.

ROFL. You really should stick to what you know. Well, not quite, that'd be sticking to nothing. You should really stick to what you're passionate about (misinformation about DRM), as its obvious you have no clue what you're talking about. If you're referring to my comments in the CPU section referring to Intel employees....there are actually Intel employees who have openly admitted to their employment over the years and frequently post and contribute with valuable information and insight.

Unlike some forums and their attitudes toward corporations and authorities, there is no contempt directed at those employees, as their input is always seen as welcome and credible. That's very different of course, than the random BS and misinformation based on nothing but fear, uncertainty, and doubt from you and people like you. The comments about Atari's credibility in this thread even after Atari clearly communicated their intentions and reasoning for this DRM going forward clearly demonstrates this fact. But of course, any reasonable individual is going to believe the statement of a credible source from a reputable firm over the fearmongering of a few nobodies, like you.

I will not dignify any further posts from you with a reply, so you can "win" and get the last word in: congratulations, job well done.

Thanks! /highfiveself :beer::laugh: I would like to thank Atari, their awesome DRM, and especially Vin Diesel for making this awesome game possible, yet impossible for the pirates to crack. Not only does it give me an opportunity to play and enjoy the game, its also help to prove much of the lies and misinformation spread by those with an anti-DRM agenda are clearly false and baseless.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: thilan29
They can SAY it BUT who knows if they'll stand by what they said (that doesn't really look like an official statement from ATARI to me)...and who knows how long it will take for said increase.

The guy works for Atari, he's the one that made the original statements and is clearly identified as "Administrator" and "Atari, Inc Staff" on their official forums. Not sure what else you would need as proof.

As for whether its credible or not, in the real world, people and firms are held accountable for their actions and statements. Atari, through an employee, has gone on record stating their intentions, so there's really no reason to believe otherwise unless they've repeatedly shown cause or reason. If they don't hold to their word, then you have a right to complain, but clearly the people who have not purchased the game and can't be directly impacted by any DRM to begin with have no cause for concern.

What's clear to any reasonable individual however, is that Atari statement is far more credible than any fearmongering and anti-DRM propaganda from random nobodies. Now that Atari has clarified their position and plans for the future with Riddick's DRM, how many news outlets do you think will run updates or retractions? Not many, I would think.

 

[Red Irish]

Great job Atari. One-star rating on Amazon, 96 customer/potential customer reviews and already ten dollars cheaper. The XBOX version has almost 5 stars. We also have various threads voicing complaints on numerous other forums. So great PR, great measures to inform your clients and potential clients about the DRM and great clarfication to allay their concerns.

This is just another botched up fiasco, which is unfortunate, because the game looks good and I probably will buy it when the revoke tool is released.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
Great job Atari. One-star rating on Amazon, 96 cusomer/potential customer reviews and already ten dollars cheaper. The XBOX version has almost 5 stars. Various threads voicing complaints on numerous forums. So great PR, great measures to inform your clients and potential clients about the DRM and great clarfication to allay their concerns.

This is just another botched up fiasco, which is unfortunate, because the game looks good and I probably will buy it when the revoke tool is released.

it looks like a pirate inspired campaign to discredit them
- nothing more .. they talk like elitists that are "entitled" to rip off Atari because they are protecting themselves from THIEVES

FC2 has the same activation limits; the only difference is a revoke took .. and Dark Athena is a better game

You give a moronic comparison with the XBox - the XBox is DRM; there is just no campaign to discredit them
- it is the SAME game
-clearly, hell hath no fury like an inept pirate scorned
:laugh:

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Red Irish
Great job Atari. One-star rating on Amazon, 96 cusomer/potential customer reviews and already ten dollars cheaper. The XBOX version has almost 5 stars. Various threads voicing complaints on numerous forums. So great PR, great measures to inform your clients and potential clients about the DRM and great clarfication to allay their concerns.

This is just another botched up fiasco, which is unfortunate, because the game looks good and I probably will buy it when the revoke tool is released.

it looks like a pirate inspired campaign to discredit them
- nothing more .. they talk like elitists that are "entitled" to rip off atari because Atari is protecting themselves from THIEVES

FC2 has the same activation; the only difference is a revoke took .. and Dark Athena is a better game

Thanks for that insightful post, so we're back to anyone who dislikes draconian DRM is a pirate? Seriously, I am unable to maintain any form of intelligent conversation with regards to DRM when you start making generalisations and calling people names, mindcycle summed it up quite nicely a few posts back:

Originally posted by: mindcycle


They can claim whatever they want, but install limit DRM is not in their customers best interest no matter what the justification. The damage has already been done, so they can think about all the backlash it has caused and decide if it's worth it for future titles. I'd be very surprised if they release another big title with this crap on it again..

I find it funny you are attempting to defend justification for obnoxious DRM by quoting an obvious PR statement that doesn't address any real issues.

The real issue is that Atari put a DRM solution on their product that does one thing.. attempt to protect it's own interests (which is fine). What it doesn't do is protect any of our interests as consumers and simply adds additional headaches while diminishing many of our rights. From a consumer standpoint there is not a single plus from the additional DRM they employed, and thus there is a backlash from us, the potential Atari customers, who recognize this problem and won't just blindly accept it.

It's like the locks on doors example that EA CEO John Riccitiello made back when the Spore debacle was going full force. He claimed that DRM is necessary like locks on doors are necessary. What he didn't recognize is that locks on doors protect us, not the company that made the lock, so the comparison was inherently flawed. And unfortunately this is the mentality that many of these companies adhere to when making these decisions. Their actual customers are the farthest thing from their mind, which is what I and many others have problems with.

You seem to be unable to grasp the concept that many people are not happy about this type of DRM and yet are not pirates. It's not that we don't understand it, we simply don't like it. Incidentally, by telling everyone how great the game is, you are only rubbing salt in wounds. Perhaps you should try to see things from our perspective, rather than defending the interests of the company whilst ignoring the legitimate concerns of clients and potential clients. The pirates will get it eventually, probably before the revoke tool is released, so they also will undoubtedly be playing it before me.

 

[apoppin]

Such fake outrage

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Such fake outrage

Look at my posts. Look at my threads. Do you seriously think that someone who has a pirated copy of most recent game releases would go to so much trouble and suffer so much abuse and headaches talking to the likes of you? Don't you think that a pirate would be too damn busy playing his/her pirated games?

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Red Irish
Great job Atari. One-star rating on Amazon, 96 cusomer/potential customer reviews and already ten dollars cheaper. The XBOX version has almost 5 stars. Various threads voicing complaints on numerous forums. So great PR, great measures to inform your clients and potential clients about the DRM and great clarfication to allay their concerns.

This is just another botched up fiasco, which is unfortunate, because the game looks good and I probably will buy it when the revoke tool is released.

it looks like a pirate inspired campaign to discredit them
- nothing more .. they talk like elitists that are "entitled" to rip off Atari because they are protecting themselves from THIEVES

FC2 has the same activation limits; the only difference is a revoke took .. and Dark Athena is a better game

You give a moronic comparison with the XBox - the XBox is DRM; there is just no campaign to discredit them
- it is the SAME game
-clearly, hell hath no fury like an inept pirate scorned
:laugh:

I agree that the XBox 360 is DRM in physical form. However, the 360 version of the game can be resold and played on as many 360 consoles as there are in the world without fear of the game disc become a coaster (or at best having to phone ATARI). Pirates can't easily pirate the game and consumers are not inconvenienced or implicitly barred from reselling their game once they're finished with it. Everyone wins.

In contrast, the PC version can be activated 3 times and then you're at the mercy of ATARI to issue more activations. Furthermore, there is no activation BS to deal with on the 360 and the game can be played into perpetuity even if ATARI goes out of business, the activation servers are shut down, etc. I'd pay $10 extra for a PC equivalent with those features for sure.

 

[Red Irish]

Great post Golgatha, you have more patience than I do.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Such fake outrage

Hehe ya, if you wanna see real rage just check out the Suprbay forum I linked to earlier. The rage there is palpable lol. Hilarious seeing pirates breaking down and buying a game, then watching other would-be pirates berate them for doing so lol.

Originally posted by: Golgatha
I agree that the XBox 360 is DRM in physical form. However, the 360 version of the game can be resold and played on as many 360 consoles as there are in the world without fear of the game disc become a coaster (or at best having to phone ATARI). Pirates can't easily pirate the game and consumers are not inconvenienced or implicitly barred from reselling their game once they're finished with it. Everyone wins.

In contrast, the PC version can be activated 3 times and then you're at the mercy of ATARI to issue more activations. Furthermore, there is no activation BS to deal with on the 360 and the game can be played into perpetuity even if ATARI goes out of business, the activation servers are shut down, etc. I'd pay $10 extra for a PC equivalent with those features for sure.

Uh, except we've seen this same fake outrage in the past with titles that had no such limits on resale, like SecuROM activation titles. But of course in that case, it was completely unfounded and based on lies and misinformation perpetuated by the usual suspects and the anti-DRM "scene". So again, its clearly not the restrictions of the DRM, its clearly the existence of DRM as you can see anti-DRM activists are just going to shift their goal posts as it suits them. And in this case, its clearly obvious the biggest problem with Riddick's DRM is that it actually works.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

You seem to be unable to grasp the concept that many people are not happy about this type of DRM and yet are not pirates. It's not that we don't understand it, we simply don't like it. Incidentally, by telling everyone how great the game is, you are only rubbing salt in wounds. Perhaps you should try to see things from our perspective, rather than defending the interests of the company whilst ignoring the legitimate concerns of clients and potential clients. The pirates will get it eventually, probably before the revoke tool is released, so they also will undoubtedly be playing it before me.

Quote for MFing truth! I want to play this game badly, but I'm not willing to support ATARI's anti-consumer attitude. I am however begrudgingly willing to buy a used (and gimped IMO) product to get at that sweet gaming goodness. Even buying used, I feel like I'm giving away hard earned cash to purchase something which could be absolutely worthless in the future.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: apoppin
Such fake outrage

Look at my posts. Look at my threads. Do you seriously think that someone who has a pirated copy of most recent game releases would go to so much trouble and suffer so much abuse and headaches talking to the likes of you? Don't you think that a pirate would be too damn busy playing his/her pirated games?

You do go to that "trouble"
.. what can i say?

it is Fake outrage to anyone who has insight

the pirates are the ones we should be going after; Atari is attempting to just lock out the thieves who attempt to obfuscate the real issue with this stupid smokescreen attempting to blame Atari

Go after Ubi also .. they do the SAME thing with FC2
Steam is ten times more restrictive .. go after them

or is it just one game that is getting attention because the pirates are inept and cannot figure out how to break it

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: apoppin
Such fake outrage

Hehe ya, if you wanna see real rage just check out the Suprbay forum I linked to earlier. The rage there is palpable lol. Hilarious seeing pirates breaking down and buying a game, then watching other would-be pirates berate them for doing so lol.

Originally posted by: Golgatha
I agree that the XBox 360 is DRM in physical form. However, the 360 version of the game can be resold and played on as many 360 consoles as there are in the world without fear of the game disc become a coaster (or at best having to phone ATARI). Pirates can't easily pirate the game and consumers are not inconvenienced or implicitly barred from reselling their game once they're finished with it. Everyone wins.

In contrast, the PC version can be activated 3 times and then you're at the mercy of ATARI to issue more activations. Furthermore, there is no activation BS to deal with on the 360 and the game can be played into perpetuity even if ATARI goes out of business, the activation servers are shut down, etc. I'd pay $10 extra for a PC equivalent with those features for sure.

Uh, except we've seen this same fake outrage in the past with titles that had no such limits on resale, like SecuROM activation titles. But of course in that case, it was completely unfounded and based on lies and misinformation perpetuated by the usual suspects and the anti-DRM "scene". So again, its clearly not the restrictions of the DRM, its clearly the existence of DRM as you can see anti-DRM activists are just going to shift their goal posts as it suits them. And in this case, its clearly obvious the biggest problem with Riddick's DRM is that it actually works.

I wish I had your God-like powers, which allow you to see into the hearts and minds of men and expose their true intentions and diabolical schemes for everyone to see on the Internet.

I also don't appreciate you calling me or anyone else posting in this thread a liar without any proof. I can't fathom how you've made it as a professional in any field if you interact with people face-to-face the way you interact with others on these forums.

And in this case, its clearly obvious the biggest problem with Riddick's DRM is that it actually works.

(shakes head) You just completely don't get it and don't have the capacity to see this issue from any viewpoint other than your own. Enjoy Dark Athena, and once again, thanks for rubbing it in.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Go after Ubi also .. they do the SAME thing with FC2
Steam is ten times more restrictive .. go after them

1) Far Cry 2 is SecuROM based and refunds the activation token when the game is uninstalled. I don't agree with the way SecuROM stealth installs etc, but at least the game won't become a coaster in the near future (provided the activation servers don't go down, etc).

2) If the game is available outside of Steam, I buy it there (personal examples include Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Grid, Titan Quest, and several others most likely). In the case of FEAR 2, which is Steam only, I simply do without.

3) Thanks to the "scene", both FC2 and FEAR 2 can be played into perpetuity since they've both been cracked. I appreciate these cracks being available, as it ensures my legally acquired games will be playable well into the future no matter what happens to the companies who created them, and I also love the convenience of not having to put a disc in the drive or authenticate with Steam to play a single player game.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
Great post Golgatha, you have more patience than I do.

Comes from being a scientist and dealing with small children on a 24/7/365 basis (my boys are 2 and 5 years of age). Oddly enough, my 5 year old is more capable of empathy, reason, and caring about the feelings of others than some of the folks posting in this thread. The 2 year old is just happy, loves playing trains, smiles, and does what he's told...oddly enough, very similar to some of the folks posting in this thread minus the playing with trains thing.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Golgatha
I wish I had your God-like powers, which allow you to see into the hearts and minds of men and expose their true intentions and diabolical schemes for everyone to see on the Internet.

I don't need any God-like powers, all the information I need is given willingly by those attempting to deceive. Its *VERY* easy to tell when someone is being disingenuous or speaking of something they clearly know nothing about. Let me ask you, do you know when your children are lying to you?

I also don't appreciate you calling me or anyone else posting in this thread a liar without any proof. I can't fathom how you've made it as a professional in any field if you interact with people face-to-face the way you interact with others on these forums.

Golgatha, you know I've proven you and the others wrong with regard to SecuROM, resale, and activations and yet you all reacted similarly with clear misinformation about how its DRM worked for each of the games that used it. If you can't acknowledge this fact it'll just further serve to prove my point.

As for how I got this far in my interactions....believe it or not, people tend to lie and steal a lot less when approached face to face or when they can actually be held accountable for their actions and statements. As such, there's less need to be confrontational about any such trangressions. Only the anonymity of the internet provides refuge for this kind of behavior, as you will never see 80-90% loss or theft rates in any other industry. Its simply unheard of.

(shakes head) You just completely don't get it and don't have the capacity to see this issue from any viewpoint other than your own. Enjoy Dark Athena, and once again, thanks for rubbing it in.

I do get it, and have proven so repeatedly, it doesn't matter the kind of DRM, the same people will bitch and moan about it (often without reason). They just bitch and moan the loudest when the DRM actually works.

 

[Red Irish]

Good God!

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: chizow

Golgatha, you know I've proven you and the others wrong with regard to SecuROM, resale, and activations and yet you all reacted similarly with clear misinformation about how its DRM worked for each of the games that used it. If you can't acknowledge this fact it'll just further serve to prove my point.

The one point you "proved me wrong" on was that uninstalling a SecuROM game gives you an activation back. I admitted the wrong information in a previous thread, and lo-and-behold, I got it right in this thread just a few minutes ago when talking about FC2's DRM protection. Speaking of disseminating misinformation, does the phrase "The pot calling the kettle black" have any meaning for you (except I'm neither a pot or kettle because I try to post correct information and also admit when I'm wrong)?

Originally posted by: Golgatha

1) Far Cry 2 is SecuROM based and refunds the activation token when the game is uninstalled. I don't agree with the way SecuROM stealth installs etc, but at least the game won't become a coaster in the near future (provided the activation servers don't go down, etc).

Originally posted by: chizow

...people tend to lie and steal a lot less when approached face to face or when they can actually be held accountable for their actions and statements.

They also tend to be more polite and not accuse people of lying through their teeth. We're not pirates and we genuinely care about traditional implied consumer rights being stripped away.

Originally posted by: chizow

I do get it, and have proven so repeatedly, it doesn't matter the kind of DRM, the same people will bitch and moan about it (often without reason). They just bitch and moan the loudest when the DRM actually works.

Dark Athena was purposefully chosen by me as a topic for a new thread because as I see it, it is a step backwards in terms of consumer-friendly DRM; especially in light of the recently released revoke tools by EA. Just when things were getting more consumer friendly, ATARI has to set a precedent for a new status quo (which is really actually worse than the status quo in 2007).

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: Red Irish
Good God!

No kidding. We've got enough material for a book now.