Diablo 3: Auction house to accept real cash

[BD2003]

How dare they charge a fee for a service provided! They should follow in the footsteps of ebay and paypal and offer a fee-free auction house transaction system.

Like the one in WoW you mean?

They're not providing a service that requires fees. It's just some in game code, some minor database transactions. It requires about as much infrastructure as a stats server. Probably even less.

 

[stlcardinals]

I think most people need to read the interviews that Diablofans.com posted yesterday. It might clear up a lot of the misconceptions in this thread.

ex:

Q: Do you feel that since people are going to be able to buy items, and therefore essentially power, do you think that will polarize the community based on the top elite, especially in PvP, versus the casual player and what repercussions might there be if that is the case?

A: I think if you look at a lot of games where power gets sold, you run into a lot of different types of games. Take a game like WoW: if we started selling items there, it would pretty much destroy the game. The core of the game is guild/raid progression; that is your top tier and that’s where everyone is focusing on. If you now give me the ability to circumvent that using money, you’ve kind of destroyed the need for having guilds in the first place. Microtransaction games tend to be very successful, but have very short lives because people tend to buy out everything. Essentially, it’s like “what if the government started printing money?” It’d be really awesome for a short time, and then we’d all be screwed. That’s kind of what a microtransaction game is; the key difference between them and this system is that it’s player-driven so we’re not generating items, players are. We’re not doing anything different than what D2 already did. Players could trade items in D2 and buy them using real money. All we’re doing is facilitating it so that it’s a good experience for everyone. We don’t expect that it’s going to feel very different from D2 at all, and to kind of separately address the PvP issue, will people buy power to be more successful in PvP? Yes they will, that’s why our PvP system is very casual and not an e-sport. It’s meant to be a “I wanna go in and see what this build can do against people who are of equivalent power.” The nice thing is with a really good match-making system, you’re going to have a good game regardless because you’re going to get matched with someone who’s roughly equivalent to you and gear’s a part of that.

 

[Chiropteran]

It requires about as much infrastructure as a stats server. Probably even less.

WoW's auction house has fees too. You need to wrap your head around the fact that virtual items and gold have real money value, even if blizzard wants you to think you can't sell them. As shown previously, 1000g = $1. As such, the AH gold fees can be calculated out to see the real dollar cost. It's not free.

Also, it's funny you say that about stats servers.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/accounts/subscribe/

Nothing is free. Anything that seems free is probably supported via ads. If you didn't have a cash AH, you would be using ebay or some other site that charges a fee.

 

[darkewaffle]

No surprises here, no way in hell I'll be using it though. Frankly I don't really even want the game that much, Diablo 2 was fun at the time but since then pretty much every other game has adopted the same model of "lottery gear grind" to keep people hooked. If they expand on that I'd be interested to see how but if WoW is any indication they're just going to stick with what works.

 

[Chiropteran]

This thread just proves the old statement that blizzard could give everyone who plays free money and some people would find reasons to complain about it.

 

[BD2003]

WoW's auction house has fees too. You need to wrap your head around the fact that virtual items and gold have real money value, even if blizzard wants you to think you can't sell them. As shown previously, 1000g = $1. As such, the AH gold fees can be calculated out to see the real dollar cost. It's not free.

Also, it's funny you say that about stats servers.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/accounts/subscribe/

Nothing is free. Anything that seems free is probably supported via ads. If you didn't have a cash AH, you would be using ebay or some other site that charges a fee.

I don't recall WoW having any fees associated with the AH when I played years ago. If that's changed, that sucks. You can't be serious if you're equating the virtual fees with real money though.

In any case, the argument isn't for or against fees. It's how those fees are collected, and who they're collected by. Just because they made the game doesn't mean they deserve a cut of every transaction remotely associated with it. Charging a sub for a game that requires significant infrastructure and ongoing maintenance is a straightforward, honorable transaction. Microtransactions for cosmetic stuff, also fine. It's when the dev has an interest in tinkering with the game beyond just making it a good game where the problem is.

Maybe you're just plain incapable of seeing the slippery slope here. Maybe you've got dollar signs in your eyes because you are looking forward to making money off of this.

All I know is that I like my games to have a barrier between the game economy and my bank account, in both directions. I'll be satisfied if there's a non-hardcore, non-greed realm.

 

[Anubis]

there are no real money fees with the wow AH

it costs in game gold to list things and the AH takes a cut, it always has

 

[BD2003]

there are no real money fees with the wow AH

it costs in game gold to list things and the AH takes a cut, it always has

He's saying that it's not free because you can sell gold on the grey market. So if the fee to sell an item is 10g, and 1000g can be sold for $1, that blizzard just charged you a cent.

It's the kind of logic youd use if you've either completely lost your mind, or if you make zero distinction between fantasy and reality. It's frightening. Even if it's coherent in some freakish way, it's just a bridge too far for me. Maybe I'm just getting old and this is what the kids really want nowadays, but I just don't like it.

 

[Chiropteran]

there are no real money fees with the wow AH

it costs in game gold to list things and the AH takes a cut, it always has

I thought I was clear enough, but I'll break it down.

1000g = $1.

Therefore, a 10g AH fee = $.01 in "real money".

If you choose to ignore the real money value of wow gold, you can also choose to ignore the real money value of diablo 3 items. It's really no different, except if you want to sell your diablo 3 stuff you can do so without risking your account getting banned.

 

[Ross Ridge]

This thread just proves the old statement that blizzard could give everyone who plays free money and some people would find reasons to complain about it.

Fortunately this isn't a problem for Blizzard/Activision. Between the fanboys that will buy anything with the Blizzard name attached to it and all the money they'll make off the auction house they have no reason to worry about what people think of their game.

 

[BD2003]

I thought I was clear enough, but I'll break it down.

1000g = $1.

Therefore, a 10g AH fee = $.01 in "real money".

If you choose to ignore the real money value of wow gold, you can also choose to ignore the real money value of diablo 3 items. It's really no different, except if you want to sell your diablo 3 stuff you can do so without risking your account getting banned.

See. Anyone else disturbed by this?

 

[Chiropteran]

He's saying that it's not free because you can sell gold on the grey market. So if the fee to sell an item is 10g, and 1000g can be sold for $1, that blizzard just charged you a cent.

It's the kind of logic youd use if you've either completely lost your mind, or if you make zero distinction between fantasy and reality. It's frightening. Even if it's coherent in some freakish way, it's just a bridge too far for me. Maybe I'm just getting old and this is what the kids really want nowadays, but I just don't like it.

Do you think it's going to be different in diablo 3? The sort of items you sell for 10g on wow are going to be the sort of junk in diablo 3 you don't even bother posting on the AH. The stuff on WoW that goes for 20k gold or more are more or less equivalent to what I expect to see people dealing with on diablo 3, which are also the sort of things that on wow cost thousands of gold in listing fees (which does equate to a real dollar cost).

 

[Chiropteran]

See. Anyone else disturbed by this?

I know math can be a scary thing but we can get through this together.

FWIW, I wasn't trying to imply a $.01 fee is significant. I also don't think that the items that sell for so cheap in wow gold would be the sort of items people would try to sell on diablo 3 for cash. I was simply showing for every 10g in fees you pay 1 penny. 5000g fee = $5. That isn't insignificant.

 

[BD2003]

I know math can be a scary thing but we can get through this together.

FWIW, I wasn't trying to imply a $.01 fee is significant. I also don't think that the items that sell for so cheap in wow gold would be the sort of items people would try to sell on diablo 3 for cash. I was simply showing for every 10g in fees you pay 1 penny. 5000g fee = $5. That isn't insignificant.

It's not your math that's disturbing, its your reasoning.

 

[Chiropteran]

If you don't think virtual property should be worth real money, don't sell it on the real money AH, problem solved. If you do think virtual property is worth real money, surely that gold you spent in AH fees was worth real money too.

It's not your math that's disturbing, its your reasoning.

Is this your thinking?

"Virtual gold is virtual, so I don't mind paying fees with it, it's not real money.

Virtual items I buy with virtual gold are still virtual, and worthless.

I sell my virtual item for real cash and instead of getting the full cash sale price I only get 95% of it, blizzard is a bunch of greedy criminals for stealing that 5%!"

There just seems to be a huge disconnect to me. On one hand you don't care about throwing away virtual gold, it's not real, not worth anything, even though it clearly is worth real money to some people. And then you turn around and call blizzard greedy for taking a similar cut when you sell your virtual item for real money.

 

[BD2003]

If you don't think virtual property should be worth real money, don't sell it on the real money AH, problem solved. If you do think virtual property is worth real money, surely that gold you spent in AH fees was worth real money too.




Is this your thinking?

"Virtual gold is virtual, so I don't mind paying fees with it, it's not real money.

Virtual items I buy with virtual gold are still virtual, and worthless.

I sell my virtual item for real cash and instead of getting the full cash sale price I only get 95% of it, blizzard is a bunch of greedy criminals for stealing that 5%!"

There just seems to be a huge disconnect to me. On one hand you don't care about throwing away virtual gold, it's not real, not worth anything, even though it clearly is worth real money to some people. And then you turn around and call blizzard greedy for taking a similar cut when you sell your virtual item for real money.

Because one of my main issues is that blizzard is now the beneficiary of that activity. You really don't see how that's an issue?

 

[darkewaffle]

Any word on whether D3 will adopt any of the 'binding' item principles? (BoE vs BoP vs no bind)

 

[rivan]

This whole thing has me very conflicted.

On one hand, I'm terribly bothered by the idea of buying items. It seems just seriously cheesy somehow. It cheapens the experience, knowing someone spent $40 to get some awesome gear, rather than "earning" it (and yes, I'm aware of the obvious irony there).

On the other, I'll be more than happy to put a few bucks in my own pocket, if people are buying.

I'm terribly interested in the stake Blizzard has in this. Taking a portion of every transaction, they have a vested interest in manipulating the economy, where there was no such interest before. Now, virtual item rarity has an impact on shareholder value, and that's what's truly scary to me. I do NOT want a game I'd like to play to be driven in any measure by a stock price, and I won't be convinced that there won't be any influence.

 

[BD2003]

This whole thing has me very conflicted.

On one hand, I'm terribly bothered by the idea of buying items. It seems just seriously cheesy somehow. It cheapens the experience, knowing someone spent $40 to get some awesome gear, rather than "earning" it (and yes, I'm aware of the obvious irony there).

On the other, I'll be more than happy to put a few bucks in my own pocket, if people are buying.

I'm terribly interested in the stake Blizzard has in this. Taking a portion of every transaction, they have a vested interest in manipulating the economy, where there was no such interest before. Now, virtual item rarity has an impact on shareholder value, and that's what's truly scary to me. I do NOT want a game I'd like to play to be driven in any measure by a stock price, and I won't be convinced that there won't be any influence.

Just picture the guys in the back office meeting discussing how item sales are down because the top players are maxed out. Time to make them obsolete by introducing new, more powerful items and thus starting the cycle again.

Its no longer about attracting sales with fun gameplay mechanics. Now it's about maximizing profits through careful manipulations of the economy and items that drive item exchanges.

If anyone thinks thats not going to happen, you'd be a naive fool. That doesn't describe a game I want to be a part of.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I dont understand what everyone is up in arms about. This for the most part is a team game anyway. So what? Don't use it if you don't want it, save yoru $40 and buy the expansion when it comes out ;P

 

[Chiropteran]

Just picture the guys in the back office meeting discussing how item sales are down because the top players are maxed out. Time to make them obsolete by introducing new, more powerful items and thus starting the cycle again.

This is how blizzard already works though, I don't know why you think this would be something new. See world of warcraft, see patches, see new raid content and more powerful items added to keep things interesting.

 

[BD2003]

This is how blizzard already works though, I don't know why you think this would be something new. See world of warcraft, see patches, see new raid content and more powerful items added to keep things interesting.

There's nothing inherently dishonorable or manipulative about that. Making the game interesting keeps people playing and drives their profits. Fantastic. That's how it should be.

What theyre doing with D3 is something ENTIRELY different.

 

[masterxfob]

Just picture the guys in the back office meeting discussing how item sales are down because the top players are maxed out. Time to make them obsolete by introducing new, more powerful items and thus starting the cycle again.

Its no longer about attracting sales with fun gameplay mechanics. Now it's about maximizing profits through careful manipulations of the economy and items that drive item exchanges.

If anyone thinks thats not going to happen, you'd be a naive fool. That doesn't describe a game I want to be a part of.

d2 has always had ladder seasons that reset characters and equipment. i see no reason for them to do any differently with d3. if you don't like it, don't buy it. pretty simple concept i think.

 

[Ross Ridge]

And then you turn around and call blizzard greedy for taking a similar cut when you sell your virtual item for real money.

As far as Blizzard is concerned their "cut" of World of Warcraft auction house sales is not at all similiar to their cut of Diablo III auction house sales. Virtual gold in thieir own game is worthless to them.

Of course Blizzard is greedy. They're a for-profit limited-liability corporation, nominally repsonsible to their shareholders and no one else. The problem is that their greed is now now longer aligned with the same interests that resulted in Diablo II being such a big success. It's now shifted towards a different, if overlapping, market, one that Blizzard hopes will make them more money if they stuck with the revenue model they had in Diablo II. You refuse to admit that anything has changed, but your own posts have spelled out the differences as clearly as anyone in this thread.

Blizzard isn't dumb. They're aren't fooling themselves like one their fanboys. They know they're changing the game. They know they'll lose some customers because of it. They don't care because they believe they'll both attract a new set of customers and get increased revenue per customer.

So while you may not see any valid reason for anyone to complain about the changes, Blizzard does. Like Rob Pardo said about the related online-only requirement, if it's a problem just play a different game. Which is all that the people complaining in this thread have said they're going do.

 

[Juddog]

I don't see why Blizzard doesn't just take it to the next step.

Just offer pre- max level characters for dollars. They can generate a ton of income that way. Then instead of having players sell the items, just have the item sale go direct to Blizzard for upgrades. Have no cap on the upgrades, so that the more money players dump into the equipment, the more they can keep adding bonuses. If someone wants to spend $900 to add +900 strength to their favorite weapon of choice, then let them.

Meanwhile why not make the weapon rarity even higher? That way if a player has a one in one million chance of finding the weapon they want, it will make them that much more likely to buy one from the Blizzard shop instead.

Video games driven by stockholders will eventually take this step.