DeSantis claims our rights come from God not government. Is that correct?

[cytg111]

The more I ponder the concept the stronger my conviction becomes that its a necessary evolutionary step for mankind to ditch religion. I dont think we're gonna make it with that attached to our feet.

 

[VRAMdemon]

He just won the governorship reelection in a landslide, and he is not popular in FL?

No, he's not. Just because he won handily doesn't mean everyone who voted for him "likes" him or agrees with everything he's doing. The problem in the state (like many other states) is that many have been programed to vote for the Republican over the Democrat no matter what.

 

[MrSquished]

No, he's not. Just because he won handily doesn't mean everyone who voted for him "likes" him or agrees with everything he's doing. The problem in the state (like many other states) is that many have been programed to vote for the Republican over the Democrat no matter what.

He seems to be doing quite well with the GQP in the state, of which most are the ones who voted for him.

Florida GOP likes DeSantis far more than Trump in new poll

Nearly 80% of the state's Republicans have a "very favorable" view of Gov. Ron DeSantis, outpacing their favorable views of Trump.

www.nbcnews.com

"Florida Ron DeSantis is the most popular political figure among Republican voters who favor him far more than his fellow Sunshine State Republican — and possible 2024 rival — former President Donald Trump, according to a new poll obtained by NBC News.

The survey, conducted by the GOP firm Ragnar Research Partners, shows that 86 percent of Republican voters have a favorable impression of the governor in the wake of his historic 20-percentage point thrashing of Democrat Charlie Crist in his re-election, while only 10 percent have an unfavorable view. His net approval rating of 76 percentage points is surpassed in the poll by the share of those Republicans who have a very favorable impression, 79 percent — a crucial measurement of intensity."

 

[Pens1566]

No, he's not. Just because he won handily doesn't mean everyone who voted for him "likes" him or agrees with everything he's doing. The problem in the state (like many other states) is that many have been programed to vote for the Republican over the Democrat no matter what.

I get your distinction, but in the end it's the votes he gets that matter.

 

[Moonbeam]

The more I ponder the concept the stronger my conviction becomes that its a necessary evolutionary step for mankind to ditch religion. I dont think we're gonna make it with that attached to our feet.

It is not my intention to argue against your point. I want simply to ponder a question:

Is it not the function of religion to improve the moral condition of humanity, to make us better people regardless of the fact, at least a fact, I would say, to you and me, that all those good intentions “gang aft-a-gley”? The road to hell is paved with them we say. That which was meant to enlighten turns into a way to enslave.

So might it not be the intention or really even some unseen motivation, some need to improve the human situation that somehow gets twisted and put to evil ends?

I ask because perhaps the answer to the problems religion creates lies not in all the various religions but in understanding human need, the demand for change. What if the problem lies in the desire to see change. What could go wrong if we had no intentions to change anything? Is it possible to be intention free?

Just wondering.

 

[UNCjigga]

Anyone who supports DeSantis, why doesn't this frighten you? Would it if we had a Muslim President?

I don’t support DeFascist, but I actually agree with him here.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed”

That is to say that it doesn’t matter which Creator you acknowledge or even whether you acknowledge one—your existence alone entitles you the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of your own happiness [though not at the expense of others]. Governments are formed to secure these rights, but they cannot provide them nor take them away.

 

[MrSquished]

I don’t support DeFascist, but I actually agree with him here.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed”

That is to say that it doesn’t matter which Creator you acknowledge or even whether you acknowledge one—your existence alone entitles you the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of your own happiness [though not at the expense of others]. Governments are formed to secure these rights, but they cannot provide them nor take them away.

So who enforces all these rights, our Creator? What's his role in all this. And different Creators have different rules. Has anyone spoken to this Creator, do we have proof of which Creator is real and what their rules really are and how they actually give us and protect our rights from government?

 

[cytg111]

It is not my intention to argue against your point. I want simply to ponder a question:

Is it not the function of religion to improve the moral condition of humanity, to make us better people regardless of the fact, at least a fact, I would say, to you and me, that all those good intentions “gang aft-a-gley”? The road to hell is paved with them we say. That which was meant to enlighten turns into a way to enslave.

So might it not be the intention or really even some unseen motivation, some need to improve the human situation that somehow gets twisted and put to evil ends?

I ask because perhaps the answer to the problems religion creates lies not in all the various religions but in understanding human need, the demand for change. What if the problem lies in the desire to see change. What could go wrong if we had no intentions to change anything? Is it possible to be intention free?

Just wondering.

I dont think so. The function of religion is to make an earlier version of mankind walk in lockstep. Its only when we walk in lockstep we achieve great things - and great things give a competitive advantage and thus selection favors the true believers. At that stage of evolution it matters less that what we're synchronizing our step to is a lie, like magical constructs and supernatural beings. The real problem with religion is the governing body and corruption. In modern society we keep each other accountable to the rule of law. Religion either shrugs it off or rotates assignments of its clergy.

*We the people cannot vote out a priest, an imam.*

The thing I would like humanity to synchronize around now is our democratic institutions. You saw it yourself with the evangelicals 2016.
How can you trust a man that needs a religious text to tell him what is right and what is wrong? A priest to interpret said text as to what is good and what is bad? Orange man good, adulterer, lust, greed wrath envy pride GO FORTH and make him a golden statue. Cheap medicine and singlepayer is the work of Satan.

If you really think about it, when someone proclaims to you, that he is a true believer of dungeons and dragons, demons and angels, magic places upside, magic places downside.. you surely must take precautions with this person. I mean common its crazy talk.

 

[HomerJS]

I don’t support DeFascist, but I actually agree with him here.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed”

That is to say that it doesn’t matter which Creator you acknowledge or even whether you acknowledge one—your existence alone entitles you the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of your own happiness [though not at the expense of others]. Governments are formed to secure these rights, but they cannot provide them nor take them away.

Then I will ask you the questions. Why did God determine black people didn't deserve the full suite of rights in the United States until 1965?

If our rights are inalienable how did SCOTUS manage to take away part of the Voting Rights Act in 2013? It's kinda important to people like me.

 

[Moonbeam]

I dont think so. The function of religion is to make an earlier version of mankind walk in lockstep. Its only when we walk in lockstep we achieve great things - and great things give a competitive advantage and thus selection favors the true believers. At that stage of evolution it matters less that what we're synchronizing our step to is a lie, like magical constructs and supernatural beings. The real problem with religion is the governing body and corruption. In modern society we keep each other accountable to the rule of law. Religion either shrugs it off or rotates assignments of its clergy.

*We the people cannot vote out a priest, an imam.*

The thing I would like humanity to synchronize around now is our democratic institutions. You saw it yourself with the evangelicals 2016.
How can you trust a man that needs a religious text to tell him what is right and what is wrong? A priest to interpret said text as to what is good and what is bad? Orange man good, adulterer, lust, greed wrath envy pride GO FORTH and make him a golden statue. Cheap medicine and singlepayer is the work of Satan.

If you really think about it, when someone proclaims to you, that he is a true believer of dungeons and dragons, demons and angels, magic places upside, magic places downside.. you surely must take precautions with this person. I mean common its crazy talk.

I think you have confused the purpose of religion with the result. I think the purpose is to harmonize a society under a common moral code to insure fidelity to that society. I think this is the result of the fact that the will to justice and fair play, equality and the decency one would like for oneself, is guaranteed to all. I believe it no accident that moral codes across time and space have great commonality in their seemingly varied laws.

The use of the law to control social classes, I would say, is a later evolution based on the ego need to maintain class privilege regardless of personal merit, the advent of psychopathology, the very thing religious law was intended to prevent.

This inalienable understanding of justice vs injustice I believe can be sensed without words, a universal language of the heart. It is for this reason that no matter how screwed up a religion becomes the ones the endure in the world will always have members who see the truth. There are millions of Christians, I believe, who absolutely abhor Donald Trump and can see in him everything we imagine about the anti-Christ, the god of the angry, sick, aggrieved ego. That's my opinion.

 

[soundforbjt]

I doubt meatball ron will be the force to be afraid of in 2024, my worry is if Youngkin gets the nod.

 

[cytg111]

I think you have confused the purpose of religion with the result. I think the purpose is to harmonize a society under a common moral code to insure fidelity to that society. I think this is the result of the fact that the will to justice and fair play, equality and the decency one would like for oneself, is guaranteed to all. I believe it no accident that moral codes across time and space have great commonality in their seemingly varied laws.

The use of the law to control social classes, I would say, is a later evolution based on the ego need to maintain class privilege regardless of personal merit, the advent of psychopathology, the very thing religious law was intended to prevent.

This inalienable understanding of justice vs injustice I believe can be sensed without words, a universal language of the heart. It is for this reason that no matter how screwed up a religion becomes the ones the endure in the world will always have members who see the truth. There are millions of Christians, I believe, who absolutely abhor Donald Trump and can see in him everything we imagine about the anti-Christ, the god of the angry, sick, aggrieved ego. That's my opinion.

Data driven analysis of religions past doesnt support your hypothesis. In my opinion. I dont think you need religion to be good and kind hearted. Justice fair play, equality and decency is exactly what we get when we band together and form rule of law. What institution has had the most success with raising personal rights and applying them broadly among the populous? The church? Any religious institution? Or democracy.
Is it perfect? Nope. Not yet. But its getting better by the decade, with the occasional hiccup.

 

[MrSquished]

I doubt meatball ron will be the force to be afraid of in 2024, my worry is if Youngkin gets the nod.

There is a long way to go and in politics that is an eternity. Youngkin would be a good fascist too.

 

[theeedude]

Florida GOP is insane, don't let them anywhere near federal power:

Florida bill would require bloggers who write about governor to register with the state

Florida Sen. Jason Brodeur (R-Lake Mary) wants bloggers who write about Gov. Ron DeSantis, Attorney General Ashley Moody, and other members of the Florida executive cabinet or legislature to regist…

www.wfla.com

If Florida GOP got its way, bloggers would need to register with the state before writing on state government officials, and need to file monthly reports with the state about their activity and revenues.
Even Putin has not thought about this level of fascism.

 

[gothuevos]

First they came for the bloggers...

 

[UNCjigga]

First they came for the bloggers...

Actually, first they came for the TikTokers (because fuck those wankers)…then they came for the bloggers.

 

[UNCjigga]

Then I will ask you the questions. Why did God determine black people didn't deserve the full suite of rights in the United States until 1965?

That had nothing to do with God. That was our government failing to secure their rights. Our Founding Fathers talked a big game but didn’t deliver for everyone.

If our rights are inalienable how did SCOTUS manage to take away part of the Voting Rights Act in 2013? It's kinda important to people like me.

”Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” The Roberts Court of originalists would contend that doesn’t mean the right to vote in free and fair elections. Donors get to choose their government, and government gets to choose their constituents now.

 

[WelshBloke]

I don’t support DeFascist, but I actually agree with him here.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed”

That is to say that it doesn’t matter which Creator you acknowledge or even whether you acknowledge one—your existence alone entitles you the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of your own happiness [though not at the expense of others]. Governments are formed to secure these rights, but they cannot provide them nor take them away.

Quite clearly your rights are given to you by politicians and lawyers. Those are the guys who right them up and enforce them.
If they were intrinsic in the human condition then they wouldn't need legislation, debate or enforcement.

You might have desires and needs that are intrisic but those are not rights.

 

[gothuevos]

In case you wanted an idea or blueprint of what they have in store for us in 2025+

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631654834716672003

 

[Pens1566]

In case you wanted an idea or blueprint of what they have in store for us in 2025+

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631654834716672003

I can almost guarantee that Meatball Ron has googled "where can i get novichok?".

 

[fskimospy]

That had nothing to do with God. That was our government failing to secure their rights. Our Founding Fathers talked a big game but didn’t deliver for everyone.

”Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” The Roberts Court of originalists would contend that doesn’t mean the right to vote in free and fair elections. Donors get to choose their government, and government gets to choose their constituents now.

I mean if our government can overrule god that’s not a strong statement in favor of god.

 

[fskimospy]

In case you wanted an idea or blueprint of what they have in store for us in 2025+

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631654834716672003

Are we back to inevitable Republican victory?

 

[gothuevos]

Are we back to inevitable Republican victory?

If it's DeSantis, then yes.

Happy to discuss further with you in the gulags.

 

[fskimospy]

If it's DeSantis, then yes.

Happy to discuss further with you in the gulags.

So no reconsideration of your position despite being repeatedly wrong?

 

[conehead433]

DeFascist has put forth a bill that would require bloggers who write about him will have to register with the state, Apparently it will only apply to bloggers who reside in the state of Florida. Give it some time and writing some innocuous statement just like this one will earn you a visit from the Gestapo and you may never be seen again. I missed the part in the US Constitution that necessitates registering to exercise their 1st amendment rights. The possible good news is that DeFascist will earn the disdain of most US voters and never sniff the Presidency.

MSN