DeSantis claims our rights come from God not government. Is that correct?

[pete6032]

For those us who haven't been indoctrinated with a whitewashed version of American History, blacks in America codified by law did not have the same rights as whites until 1965 (law only)

According to St. Ronnie God not government grants our rights. In case DeSantis forgot the history he taught the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Whose fault is it black people under law were denied rights until 1965?

Gods fault or man's fault? Geez, this guy taught history so maybe he can explain his answer.
Ron DeSantis on what being conservative means: 'Our rights come from God, not government' (msn.com)

I'm curious why do you make threads with polls when you already know that 95-100% will vote for one option? Why not just post your opinion?

 

[kage69]

Chasing that evangelical vote, just like his treason template Trump did. No surprise. This asshole mimics Trump to a T almost. Courtship of white supremacists, adopting Trump's hand gestures, even looks like he's using bronzer now.

For someone who went to a good school, Ron sure likes to act like he didn't learn much. Did this flabby jowled fascist dipshit get his own private militia yet? I recall him having a real hard on for that not too long ago.

 

[dawp]

Cool with it? Nope. I don't need nor want religious rule in my life. That said, I have no issue with "Christion values", as long as they're not perverted by the words of some lunatic cult leader.
The founding fathers deemed our rights to be inalienable, and yes, they did indeed skip over everyone but whites, that's tribalism. On the plus side, whites did realize they made a mistake and corrected it, yes it took near 200 years, but they got there. If that makes you angry I understand, just don't be angry at me, I wasn't there.

the issue I have with christian values is when the try to force them on everyone else, which they have a tendency to do, as with abortion rights, lbgt right, prohibition (which failed dramatically) among others.

 

[Meghan54]

I think the reason was different, it was that even though you’re a poor white farmer barelt getting by you could feel better knowing you were ‘better’ than the slaves. People like that.

Posted this before.....read again. Read what was being brayed from pulpits all over the southern states. Also remember, back in the 1800's, the church was the center of the town, much like churches had been in Europe.

"Shortly after Lincoln’s election, Presbyterian minister Benjamin Morgan Palmer, originally from Charleston, gave a sermon entitled, “The South Her Peril and Her Duty.” He announced that the election had brought to the forefront one issue – slavery – that required him to speak out. Slavery, he explained, was a question of morals and religion, and was now the central question in the crisis of the Union. The South, he went on, had a “providential trust to conserve and to perpetuate the institution of slavery as now existing.” The South was defined by slavery, he observed. “It has fashioned our modes of life, and determined all of our habits of thought and feeling, and molded the very type of our civilization.” Abolition, said Palmer, was “undeniably atheistic.” The South “defended the cause of God and religion,” and nothing “is now left but secession.” Some 90,000 copies of a pamphlet incorporating the sermon were distributed."

Why Non-Slaveholding Southerners Fought

Address by historian and author Gordon Rhea about why non-slaveholding southerners fought for the Confederacy

www.battlefields.org

'Reverend Furman of South Carolina insisted that the right to hold slaves was clearly sanctioned by the Holy Scriptures. He emphasized a practical side as well, warning that if Lincoln were elected, “every Negro in South Carolina and every other Southern state will be his own master; nay, more than that, will be the equal of every one of you. If you are tame enough to submit, abolition preachers will be at hand to consummate the marriage of your daughters to black husbands.”

'A fellow reverend from Virginia agreed that on no other subject “are [the Bible’s] instructions more explicit, or their salutary tendency and influence more thoroughly tested and corroborated by experience than on the subject of slavery.” The Methodist Episcopal Church, South, asserted that slavery “has received the sanction of Jehova.” As a South Carolina Presbyterian concluded: “If the scriptures do not justify slavery, I know not what they do justify.”

'The Biblical argument started with Noah’s curse on Ham, the father of Canaan, which was used to demonstrate that God had ordained slavery and had expressly applied it to Blacks. Commonly cited were passages in Leviticus that authorized the buying, selling, holding and bequeathing of slaves as property. Methodist Samuel Dunwody from South Carolina documented that Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, and Job owned slaves, arguing that “some of the most eminent of the Old Testament saints were slave holders.” The Methodist Quarterly Review noted further that “the teachings of the new testament in regard to bodily servitude accord with the old.” While slavery was not expressly sanctioned in the New Testament, Southern clergymen argued that the absence of condemnation signified approval. They cited Paul’s return of a runaway slave to his master as Biblical authority for the Fugitive Slave Act, which required the return of runaway slaves.

'As Pastor Dunwody of South Carolina summed up the case: “Thus, God, as he is infinitely wise, just and holy, never could authorize the practice of a moral evil. But God has authorized the practice of slavery, not only by the bare permission of his Providence, but the express provision of his word. Therefore, slavery is not a moral evil.” Since the Bible was the source for moral authority, the case was closed. “Man may err,” said the southern theologian James Thornwell, “but God can never lie.”

'It was a corollary that to attack slavery was to attack the Bible and the word of God. If the Bible expressly ordained slave holding, to oppose the practice was a sin and an insult to God’s word. As the Baptist minister and author Thornton Stringfellow noted in his influential Biblical Defense of Slavery, “men from the north” demonstrated “palpable ignorance of the divine will.” '

Just a taste of the article.

 

[Lezunto]

I am glad DeSantis has come out of as the rightful deputy ruler of God.

We will see how this plays out with most voters.

 

[MrSquished]

I am glad DeSantis has come out of as the rightful deputy ruler of God.

We will see how this plays out with most voters.

He crushed it in Florida. The GQP will love it and they will feed each other to shittier and shittier levels.

The primary should be interesting with Trump. Hopefully weaken DeSantis enough. Also plenty of time for others to bust through.

But if DeSantis wins. Game over for democracy is on the menu big time.

 

[Vic]

Rights are inherent. Some people call that "God given," which I don't find to be a big deal.
The important part is that rights are not derived from the govt but secured by it.
The irony here is that it is actually DeSantis' Republicans who believe that rights come from govt. As proof of this, I submit that Republicans don't believe that non-citizens, particularly certain immigrant groups, have rights. If rights are not universal but dependant upon citizenship then logically would be derived from the state and not "God" or whatever word one chooses to describe inherent from birth for all.

 

[trenchfoot]

If the day comes when DeSantis and Trump are in the Repub primaries for POTUS, it sure would be interesting to see which one God sides with. I mean the mere thought that both will be pitching who is more godly and deserves to win the nomination because of that is so ungodly, so sanctimonious and so sacrilegious it's unthinkable from any moral and ethical point of view, let alone a truly biblically doctrinal one.

And yet the fundies will be out and about spreading the word that either Trump or DeSantis is morally and religiously blessed to lead the nation. Imagine that - two of the nation's most vile fascist megalomaniacs will somehow be touted by the base of the GOP as being Christian America's heroes and representative of all that's holy.

 

[HomerJS]

I'm curious why do you make threads with polls when you already know that 95-100% will vote for one option? Why not just post your opinion?

There are plenty of people who claim to support DeSantis. I don’t have votes from them. Why don’t they vote?

 

[Zorba]

Of course but he will lose in the courts. That doesn't matter to him though because the goal is not to implement policy, it's to get attention.

Doesn't seem like the courts are doing much to reel him in. Even if they eventually do, they will slow roll it until the damage is already done. Some how policies conservatives don't like can get in front of the supreme court in a few months, but straight up trying to use the government to punish speech will take a decade to get there.

 

[trenchfoot]

There are plenty of people who claim to support DeSantis. I don’t have votes from them. Why don’t they vote?

From my corner of the room, it seems like most of them know it would be a futile attempt to defend the indefensible. DeSantis may be popular in his state but it's only because he's throwing shit from the cage he's in at the libs and that's pretty much hitting all the right emotional triggers from his supporters to keep them throwing shit from their cages right along with him.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

This is all very simple. It only requires a reverence for the Truth and its sister -- common sense, or applying logical inference to the facts.

For as long as Christianity itself or longer, the power-elite defined the universe as it pleased them, or as it served to control society. So, for instance, consistent with putting Man at the center of God's attention and following the sun's daytime pattern, the official view, promulgated by the clerics and their bishops, had the sun revolving around the earth.

Then, Galileo invented the telescope, pronouncing that things worked differently. The Church went after Galileo and other astronomers. But eventually, fact trumped imagination, superstition and illusion.

Why doesn't it seem apparent to thinking people that this aspect of human progress affected everything, including the ideas about government?

Instead, the naive look at the Declaration of Independence as if the document were written for an American audience. And if you look back at the political philosophers who paved the way for the Constitution, they were effusive in referring to God, Providence, the Almighty in exaggerated tones of reverence. But their books were written with the attention of kings in mind. It could almost be assumed, not long after Gutenberg, that the kings would be among the first to read the books of the thinkers.

And so the myth of a Divine Right of Kings influenced the language of the Declaration, whose primary intended audience was the court of King George. It had to be argued that the Rights of Man were ordained by God on High as inalienable and natural. Yet, there isn't any God or any religion in the Constitution, which specifies a two-way independence between religion and the state, despite a puerile contemporary argument that denies as much.

At the time of the Revolution -- remember that there was also a French Revolution and other experiments in government arose concurrently -- the human race determined to seize Rights and enshrine them in a constitutional contract.

If God had anything to do with it, it would've occurred with the death of Jesus. But since we're talking about Jesus, we should also reflect on a variety of religions in a variety of cultures for a variety of civilizations -- all of which brought into existence the concept of secular law.

To save everyone the cost, time and stress, the Evangelicals who put their particular brand of religion above the State -- they should just walk away.

 

[pete6032]

There are plenty of people who claim to support DeSantis. I don’t have votes from them. Why don’t they vote?

How do you know that no DeSantis supporters voted in your poll?

 

[Moonbeam]

I believe it would be useful if we seek the answers to existential questions, to consider a few things. Why do we seek them? Is it curiosity, is it some emotional need, conscious or otherwise? Do we seek regardless of any inner predilections for certain kinds of answers while filtering out those that might upset other forms of belief?

How, for example does throwing DeSantis into the equation affect whether rights are man made or God given?

It was suggested to me by people I felt know more than I do that the answers to such questions are always some third way, that they involve the resolution of paradox at a higher level of understanding.

And since the realization that is the result a resolution is said to be enlightenment itself, who but the enlightened can answer leaving aside the fact that whatever answer they give can only be understood by those who already do?

Theoretically, then, the answer is likely to be that rights are both innate as in God given and created by men.

The good news then is that everybody should be partially right.

 

[KMFJD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630714861524008961

meatball ron is a bit thin skinned is he not?, will be interesting to see them battle it out

 

[brycejones]

You

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630714861524008961

meatball ron is a bit thin skinned is he not?, will be interesting to see them battle it out

It’s amazing to see the party of alpha males, free speech, and cancel culture opposition always do the exact opposite while calling liberals “snowflakes”.

 

[HomerJS]

How do you know that no DeSantis supporters voted in your poll?

The number of votes is a hyperlink that displays the voters. Last time I looked no DeSantis supporters voted. Your question is a good one for them.

 

[Pens1566]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630714861524008961

meatball ron is a bit thin skinned is he not?, will be interesting to see them battle it out

Not defending Meatball Ron, but that's a security guard on private property. Fully legal to do what they're doing.

But it's not great optics for such a champion of freedom and free speech. He's a special kind of snowflake, which was always going to be a problem for him on a bigger stage than signing state legislation that allows lynching at a Publix in St. Pete.

 

[MrSquished]

Let's see how snowflake Ron handles his campaign and if they protect him from the real world enough.

 

[HomerJS]

Let's see how snowflake Ron handles his campaign and if they protect him from the real world enough.

What's Gov. Groomer going to do when Jimmy Kimmel makes too many DeSantis jokes if he is elected POTUS? Have Disney tax audited? FBI investigations?

 

[nOOky]

Someone had to be that guy, so I voted for God. God can change his mind at will, so if he thought slavery was acceptable until a certain date, it is what it is. Who are you chuckleheads to question God.

By the way, God backwards is Dog. Probably God's greatest creation. Dogs love you no matter how ugly you are, how conservative you are, or even if you are a penis puffer. We should all try to be more like dog's, and less like gods, and we'd get along just fine.

 

[MrSquished]

I don't think God gives me my rights. Personally I think penises give us our rights, because we live in a totally male-dominated society.

 

[Moonbeam]

So one of the facts that fall out of the enlightenment realization is that, lacking it, the reality we imagine we live in is nothing more than a dream, the unexamined acceptance that whatever we were programmed to think reality is it actually is. This equates to what is really meant by being asleep.

Thus, when the question is asked, are rights god given or man made the way we answer will be determined by the characteristics of the definitions of terms we use to define our dreams. If we imagine a world in which no god could possibly exist, having realized that the gods others imagine to exist are too absurd to actually be, we will say that rights are man made.

But if we are religiously trained and fixed in that delusion, we will realize that man can experience a spiritual evolution, that the existence of good and evil implies that the nature of one man to another is dangerously variable and that to accept that the rights any one man might believe could actually be profoundly evil.

So for the thinking man the choice is to pick your poison. You either define whatever delusion you hold rights to be, your own idiotic version of what you imagine God thinks your rights are, or you skip that step and declare whatever your personal delusion of what they are is what they are.

Meanwhile, far far away in another galaxy a man sits beneath a Bo tree in a state of awareness so completely present no thought can enter. Here there are no gods or men or right and wrong, no questions. There is only love and being.

Silly us, we love our sleep.

 

[soundforbjt]

Reviews of meatball ron’s Book are that he has zero charisma and almost no sense of humor. Wonder how many he’ll have to buy of his own book to get any ratings?

 

[Moonbeam]

Let's see how snowflake Ron handles his campaign and if they protect him from the real world enough.

I should probably mention that in my opinion you have come under the liberals hammer lately over your challenges to, as you see it, liberal complacency. I think you have a valid point. I o differ from you mainly, I think, on how upset you are about it.

You have not come to terms with the impotence of rage and the fact that humanity is asleep, that people are programmed, don’t know it, don’t want to know it, and are unaware they don’t want to change. You have to get used to the idea that we are fucked.