DeSantis claims our rights come from God not government. Is that correct?

[woolfe9998]

Related to Disney you can’t sue him to stop it until he actually does it, and until just now he hadn’t.

Disney has a claim under 42 USC 1983, which addresses the government retaliating for exercising First Amendment rights. DeSantis has publicly admitted that this is why he did it, so it's open and shut. If they do not pursue legal action, I can only assume it's for tactical reasons.

 

[conehead433]

I'm certainly hoping that DeSantis will be shot down on a national stage. He thinks he rules by divine right.

 

[HomerJS]

I'm waiting for the interview from one of his former HS students to hear how he was sympathetic to the Confederacy.

 

[soundforbjt]

I'm certainly hoping that DeSantis will be shot down on a national stage. He thinks he rules by divine right.

That’s why I don’t want trump indicted until he buries meatball Ron.

 

[Greenman]

But what if those rough men with guns/weapons are acting in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ?

I guess they're doing the Lords work.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I guess they're doing the Lords work.

yes, this is how atrocities are committed in the name of “insert religious figure here”

 

[HomerJS]

I guess they're doing the Lords work.

U cool with it? It would be nice if you voted

 

[nakedfrog]

Our rights come from rough men with guns.

Those rough men with their wigs and stockings and high heeled shoes.

 

[trenchfoot]

I guess they're doing the Lords work.

I suggest you refrain from applying circular logic to support your point of view.

 

[balloonshark]

Obligatory: George Carlin - You have no rights (I 100% agree with George.)

**NSFW language**

 

[JD50]

U cool with it?

It's what he votes for

 

[Jaskalas]

DeSantis claims our rights come from God not government. Is that correct?

God Given Rights are a story we tell ourselves as Americans, to help accent that good old American exceptionalism. We are so glorious a nation that god created it, and our rights. We are so righteous we know that humans have unalienable rights and so we wrote some of them down.

It's not wrong to cherish what we have, but it is certainly fictional to embellish them or their origins. OTOH, the story serves some purpose, but I am not sure I can explain what they thought as they told it. Other than it was needed for a simple people of another era to feel good about complex things that needed to be made simple for their consumption. It helped them connect with a narrative they were familiar with, as good Christian God fearing people. Who liked to murder each other with guns and keep slaves. But hey, we can't all be perfect.

 

[IronWing]

God Given Rights are a story we tell ourselves as Americans, to help accent that good old American exceptionalism. We are so glorious a nation that god created it, and our rights. We are so righteous we know that humans have unalienable rights and so we wrote some of them down.

It's not wrong to cherish what we have, but it is certainly fictional to embellish them or their origins. OTOH, the story serves some purpose, but I am not sure I can explain what they thought as they told it. Other than it was needed for a simple people of another era to feel good about complex things that needed to be made simple for their consumption. It helped them connect with a narrative they were familiar with, as good Christian God fearing people. Who liked to murder each other with guns and keep slaves. But hey, we can't all be perfect.

The intelligencia at the time of the writing of the U.S. Constitution spent quite a bit of time discussing the origins of rights and the methods to best safeguard those rights. Opinion ran from god given to government granted. The idea of inherent, natural rights arising from our humanity had a lot of support. Thomas Paine articulated the concept in his Rights of Man and also suggested that a government that did not observe and protect the rights of the governed could never be legitimate.

Rights of Man - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mai72]

Which God? Allah, Jevoah, Brahma, Vishnu? Or the Aztec Gods Huitzilopochtli, Quetzalcoatl, Tezcatlipoca, and Xipe Totec?

Oh... HIS version of God.

BTW, many of the founding fathers were Deist, not Christians. Its a mistake to believe that they were all born again Jesus loving Christians.

Jefferson tore out the fairytales and magic parts from the bible, and made his own Jefferson Bible.

The Founding Fathers, Deism, and Christianity | Christianity, Enlightenment & Religion | Britannica

For some time the question of the religious faith of the Founding Fathers has generated a culture war in the United States. Scholars trained in research universities have generally argued that the majority of the Founders were religious rationalists or Unitarians. Pastors and other writers who

www.britannica.com

 

[Pens1566]

Which God? Allah, Jevoah, Brahma, Vishnu? Or the Aztec Gods Huitzilopochtli, Quetzalcoatl, Tezcatlipoca, and Xipe Totec?

Oh... HIS version of God.

FSM ftw

Or, maybe even Dark Lord Xenu.

 

[Pohemi]

FSM ftw

Or, maybe even Dark Lord Xenu.

THERE IS ONLY ZUUL.

 

[Mai72]

View attachment 77311

Christians forget that Jesus (if he truly was a real figure) was a Jewish rabbi. He had nothing to do with Christanity, and wasn't the face of Christanity until his passing.

Most historical NT scholars now believe that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet, who preached end times. The NT reads like an end of the world prediction that never happened. Its why Paul 20 years later was telling his followers to not get married, have children and start businesses. Why should they when the end was neigh? The end times are all over Paul's writings as well. He actually thought that the end was going to happen during his life time. The saying that all Christains love to quote: "A day is like a thousand years" is thought to be a forgery among many scholars. Its the get out card for Christains though. The other quote: no one knows when the end will come. Not even the son, only the father. And why? That doesn't make sense. If Jesus is truly God than he would know when the end would come? Unless he was a prophet and not God like Muslims propose. That is a whole other discussion...

 

[woolfe9998]

Obligatory: George Carlin - You have no rights (I 100% agree with George.)

**NSFW language**

Carlin is spot on, as usual. All our "rights" are created by man, and then you have them, to whatever extent they are enforced, and for however long they last. That is all.

 

[Greenman]

U cool with it? It would be nice if you voted

Cool with it? Nope. I don't need nor want religious rule in my life. That said, I have no issue with "Christion values", as long as they're not perverted by the words of some lunatic cult leader.
The founding fathers deemed our rights to be inalienable, and yes, they did indeed skip over everyone but whites, that's tribalism. On the plus side, whites did realize they made a mistake and corrected it, yes it took near 200 years, but they got there. If that makes you angry I understand, just don't be angry at me, I wasn't there.

 

[HomerJS]

Cool with it? Nope. I don't need nor want religious rule in my life. That said, I have no issue with "Christion values", as long as they're not perverted by the words of some lunatic cult leader.
The founding fathers deemed our rights to be inalienable, and yes, they did indeed skip over everyone but whites, that's tribalism. On the plus side, whites did realize they made a mistake and corrected it, yes it took near 200 years, but they got there. If that makes you angry I understand, just don't be angry at me, I wasn't there.

Just a few follow-ups.

Is DeSantis correct? God or man?
What do you mean "Christian values"? Who's standards? DeSantis?
Don't you think the treatment of black slaves was a little more then just tribalism?

 

[woolfe9998]

Don't you think the treatment of black slaves was a little more then just tribalism?

It was economics + tribalism.

 

[hal2kilo]

Why was slavery supported by non-slave owners? Slave owners were a very small minority within the white portion of the population in the south back then.

Why…it was God and the Bible’s teachings (distorted to fit narrative) that gave credence to blacks being sub-human and slave material, and if God is always right, then slavery of blacks was A-OK.

And these fundies seem to almost exclusively look to the Old Testament, completely ignoring, for the most part, the New Testament…ya know, the one that has love thy brother as thy self? Odd, that.
And it’s an attitude that exists today…a group’s interpretation of the Bible trumps everything, and God already said there’s no damned equality unless ur in the “right” group.

The Gospel, what's that?

 

[Pens1566]

Disney has a claim under 42 USC 1983, which addresses the government retaliating for exercising First Amendment rights. DeSantis has publicly admitted that this is why he did it, so it's open and shut. If they do not pursue legal action, I can only assume it's for tactical reasons.

Disney has apparently already said publicly that they're not going to challenge the legislation. So, no losing in court for DeSantis.

 

[Greenman]

Just a few follow-ups.

Is DeSantis correct? God or man?
What do you mean "Christian values"? Who's standards? DeSantis?
Don't you think the treatment of black slaves was a little more then just tribalism?

Clearly our rights were devised and guaranteed by man, though I won't write off Devine inspiration.
Christian values are simple, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

The treatment of black slaves was unconscionable by todays standards, if you go further back Christians didn't have a great time with the Romans either. The Irish had their own issues with slavery as well. All of those acts have to be measured against the general stupidity of the times. Lets be very clear on this point, being stupid, violent, and brutal was the way to the top for a very long time. In the realm of nations it still is.

 

[iRONic]

Yeah, bending over and accepting the debts and tax obligations. WTG, Disney. 😡