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Decriminalize Drugs ?

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Originally posted by: sao123
its intoxication that i oppose.

As a user of both 'soft' and 'hard' substances, I know that my intoxication does not help anyone else, but it certainly doesn't hurt anyone either - no more than any other private recreational activity anyway. After all, what good is someone who plays video games all nght, for example? Are they any more use to society than someone who's high all night? So long as both the gamer and the user work during the day and pay their taxes who cares what they do at night?

You stated above 'it always will eventually lead to' a bunch of unsavoury stuff. Why do you think this? Do you believe that something like cocaine can actually make a person perform an action like a parasitic organism using it's host? I can assure you this is not the case. A hallucinogen like LSD or 2CB can alter your perspective on reality, perhaps making you see and hear things which are not there, but at all times you are aware you are on the drug, and you can control yourself. Just because someone is intoxicated that does not change their morals or absolve them of responsibility. If someone commits a crime on drugs it is entirely the fault of the person. Not the drug.

1 beer does not make you intoxicated, unless you weight 100 pounds, neither would 1 joint.

One joint certainly makes you intoxicated.
 
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: sao123
its intoxication that i oppose.

As a user of both 'soft' and 'hard' substances, I know that my intoxication does not help anyone else, but it certainly doesn't hurt anyone either - no more than any other private recreational activity anyway. After all, what good is someone who plays video games all nght, for example? Are they any more use to society than someone who's high all night? So long as both the gamer and the user work during the day and pay their taxes who cares what they do at night?

You stated above 'it always will eventually lead to' a bunch of unsavoury stuff. Why do you think this? Do you believe that something like cocaine can actually make a person perform an action like a parasitic organism using it's host? I can assure you this is not the case. A hallucinogen like LSD or 2CB can alter your perspective on reality, perhaps making you see and hear things which are not there, but at all times you are aware you are on the drug, and you can control yourself. Just because someone is intoxicated that does not change their morals or absolve them of responsibility. If someone commits a crime on drugs it is entirely the fault of the person. Not the drug.

1 beer does not make you intoxicated, unless you weight 100 pounds, neither would 1 joint.

One joint certainly makes you intoxicated.

If not, you got ripped off! 😛
 
Originally posted by: Ns1
Originally posted by: sao123

fixed the link

I spent a minute searching that pdf and couldn't find shit, so maybe you can point it out.

2006 Emergency Room Drug related visits (includes deaths) Individual Mortality Statistics are no longer kept since 2004.

Table 2 page 20.


Total drug misuse/abuse ED visits 1,742,887 8.5 1,451,086 - 2,034,688
ED visits, illicit drugs 958,164 14.3 690,218 - 1,226,110
Cocaine Est 548,608 16.2 CI Low 374,579 - Ci Hi 722,636
Heroin Est 189,780 18.9 Ci Low 119,525 - Ci Hi 260,035
Marijuana Est 290,563 9.1 CI Low 238,737 - Ci Hi 342,388
Stimulants 107,575 19.7 66,105 - 149,046
Amphetamines 32,240 11.4 25,034 - 39,446
Methamphetamine 79,924 25.1 40,653 - 119,194
MDMA (Ecstasy) 16,749 16.1 11,470 - 22,029
GHB 1,084 26.7 517 - 1,652
Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) ... ... ... - ...
Ketamine 270 45.6 29 - 511
LSD 4,002 26.2 1,945 - 6,059
PCP 21,960 38.2 5,518 - 38,403
Miscellaneous hallucinogens 3,898 17.1 2,591 - 5,205
Inhalants 5,643 15.9 3,886 - 7,400
Combinations not tabulated above (NTA) 2,055 26.0 1,007 - 3,103


 
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Ns1
Originally posted by: sao123

fixed the link

I spent a minute searching that pdf and couldn't find shit, so maybe you can point it out.

2006 Emergency Room Drug related visits (includes deaths) Individual Mortality Statistics are no longer kept since 2004.


Total drug misuse/abuse ED visits 1,742,887 8.5 1,451,086 - 2,034,688
ED visits, illicit drugs 958,164 14.3 690,218 - 1,226,110
Cocaine Est 548,608 16.2 CI Low 374,579 - Ci Hi 722,636
Heroin Est 189,780 18.9 Ci Low 119,525 - Ci Hi 260,035
Marijuana Est 290,563 9.1 CI Low 238,737 - Ci Hi 342,388
Stimulants 107,575 19.7 66,105 - 149,046
Amphetamines 32,240 11.4 25,034 - 39,446
Methamphetamine 79,924 25.1 40,653 - 119,194
MDMA (Ecstasy) 16,749 16.1 11,470 - 22,029
GHB 1,084 26.7 517 - 1,652
Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) ... ... ... - ...
Ketamine 270 45.6 29 - 511
LSD 4,002 26.2 1,945 - 6,059
PCP 21,960 38.2 5,518 - 38,403
Miscellaneous hallucinogens 3,898 17.1 2,591 - 5,205
Inhalants 5,643 15.9 3,886 - 7,400
Combinations not tabulated above (NTA) 2,055 26.0 1,007 - 3,103

So what you're saying is the number of deaths = 0 and there have been 290k cases of people going to the emergency room for marijuana

fail.
 
Originally posted by: Ns1
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Ns1
Originally posted by: sao123

fixed the link

I spent a minute searching that pdf and couldn't find shit, so maybe you can point it out.

So what you're saying is the number of deaths = 0 and there have been 290k cases of people going to the emergency room for marijuana

fail.

What i am saying is tha tthe statistics no longer differentiate between the two.
290K = marijuana deaths + marijuana ER visits.
 
what the.... 😕

emergency room for pot? 😕

this guy is a peice of work. this is awesome. i think he actually believes pot is dangerous. this is truly one of my favourite moments on Anandtech, ever.
 
Originally posted by: sao123
What i am saying is tha tthe statistics no longer differentiate between the two.
290K = marijuana deaths + marijuana ER visits.

Hey guys, let's play with variables!

X = # of marijuana deaths
Y = # of ER visits

290k = X + Y

Now let X = 0

Solve for Y!
 
Intoxication does not invariably lead to any adverse effects other than those directly related to said intoxication (e.g., for alcohol, reduced inhibitions, slowed cognitive processing, etc.). Yes, you need to use a substance to become addicted to it, but intoxication does NOT always, or even most of the time, lead to physiological addiction. Look at the numbers for binge drinking (which, I'm sure most people would agree, leads to intoxication) or reports of lifetime intoxication, and then compare them to the numbers for alcohol dependence.

It actually takes a surprisingly large amount of alcohol use, over a long period of time, to result in permanent and significant cognitive dysfunction. And to the best of my knowledge, no study has yet linked marijuana use to any type of permanent cognitive sequelae. Does this mean that I support unrestrained legalization of any and all illicit substances? Nope. But it does mean that intoxication does not invariably lead to any condition other than the intoxication itself.
 
Originally posted by: Ns1
Originally posted by: sao123
What i am saying is tha tthe statistics no longer differentiate between the two.
290K = marijuana deaths + marijuana ER visits.

Hey guys, let's play with variables!

X = # of marijuana deaths
Y = # of ER visits

290k = X + Y

Now let X = 0

Solve for Y!

Ooooh... I wanna say... tricycle?
 
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Ooooh... I wanna say... tricycle?

You SOB I actually lol'd

Sao123, in case it wasn't written clearly enough, this:

What i am saying is tha tthe statistics no longer differentiate between the two.
290K = marijuana deaths + marijuana ER visits.[

Does not prove this:
Originally posted by: sao123
The DAWN report statistics do not agree with your assertion.

Because of this

X = # of marijuana deaths
Y = # of ER visits

290k = X + Y

Now let X = 0

Solve for Y!
 
Tehe...Marijuana deaths.

The only way the government could prove marijuana caused death or even brain deterioration was to pump the smoke equivalent of 100 joints continuously to strapped down apes. Which was just plain old suffocation.

But it technically WAS the marijuana smoke that killed them! :roll:

I'll try to find a link to that study.
 
:laugh: ROFL, more Saownage! Thanks for the laughs this morning, bud!

Anyone who hasn't been brainwashed by DARE propaganda knows that prohibition and the War on Drugs are expensive and ineffective. Legalization and regulation FTW.

Take Sweden, for example. Drug traffickers are aggressively pursued and all drugs, including marijuana and illegal and deemed dangerous. One of the few differences between Swedish and US policy is that Sweden has widespread treatment facilities (albeit users are coerced into treatment).

Has it worked? No.

Australian review of Sweden's drug policy

Deaths from illegal drugs is one of the most significant indicators of success of drug policies. In Sweden there has been an increasing death trend since 1989, not downward as one would expect if the policy was successful.

When compared with other European countries Sweden?s death rate of 28.4 per million in 1997 shows that its policies are no more effective in reducing drug deaths. The size of the problem drug-using group is approximately the same and therefore does not account for the difference. (Australia is shown for comparison.)

Country Overdose death rate
Australia 32.8
UK 31.1
Sweden 28.4
France 3.9
Finland 3.7
The Netherlands 2.1

Primer on Swedish drug policy

These links support the evidence that prohibition is ineffective, but they also show that treatment alone is not enough. Whether decriminalization or legalization is the better solution is up for debate, but Portugal provides a good argument for decriminalization.
 
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Ns1
nothing relevant

Text
Text
Text
Text

2003-2004 Deaths from Marijuana:

Just a few:
Detriot 83
Los Angeles 62
New Orleans 47
Newark - 37
New Hampshire - 16
Utah - 48

Even if I were to believe that those are deaths caused by using marijuana so what? Unless someone forced them at gunpoint to ingest the pot they died doing what they wanted to do. I do not feel I am any more responsible to stop people from killing themselves using drugs than I am responsible for stopping someone from killing themselves base jumping, rock climbing, sky diving, or pretty much any other risky endeavor a free person chooses to engage in.
 
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Ns1
nothing relevant

Text
Text
Text
Text

2003-2004 Deaths from Marijuana:

Just a few:
Detriot 83
Los Angeles 62
New Orleans 47
Newark - 37
New Hampshire - 16
Utah - 48

Even if I were to believe that those are deaths caused by using marijuana so what? Unless someone forced them at gunpoint to ingest the pot they died doing what they wanted to do. I do not feel I am any more responsible to stop people from killing themselves using drugs than I am responsible for stopping someone from killing themselves base jumping, rock climbing, sky diving, or pretty much any other risky endeavor a free person chooses to engage in.

i was simply rebutting an ignorant statement made by a previous poster that marijuana has never caused a death.
 
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Ns1
nothing relevant

Text
Text
Text
Text

2003-2004 Deaths from Marijuana:

Just a few:
Detriot 83
Los Angeles 62
New Orleans 47
Newark - 37
New Hampshire - 16
Utah - 48

Even if I were to believe that those are deaths caused by using marijuana so what? Unless someone forced them at gunpoint to ingest the pot they died doing what they wanted to do. I do not feel I am any more responsible to stop people from killing themselves using drugs than I am responsible for stopping someone from killing themselves base jumping, rock climbing, sky diving, or pretty much any other risky endeavor a free person chooses to engage in.

i was simply rebutting an ignorant statement made by a previous poster that marijuana has never caused a death.

Are those statistics similar to "alcohol related traffic incidents" statistics where you if you are stone cold sober and driving down the street and a drunk pedestrian steps out in front of you it becomes fodder for MADDs endless fundraising efforts?
 
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Ns1
Originally posted by: sao123

fixed the link

I spent a minute searching that pdf and couldn't find shit, so maybe you can point it out.

2006 Emergency Room Drug related visits (includes deaths) Individual Mortality Statistics are no longer kept since 2004.

https://dawninfo.samhsa.gov/files/ED2006/DAWN2k6ED.pdf">Table 2 page 20.</a>


Total drug misuse/abuse ED visits 1,742,887 8.5 1,451,086 - 2,034,688
ED visits, illicit drugs 958,164 14.3 690,218 - 1,226,110
Cocaine Est 548,608 16.2 CI Low 374,579 - Ci Hi 722,636
Heroin Est 189,780 18.9 Ci Low 119,525 - Ci Hi 260,035
Marijuana Est 290,563 9.1 CI Low 238,737 - Ci Hi 342,388
Stimulants 107,575 19.7 66,105 - 149,046
Amphetamines 32,240 11.4 25,034 - 39,446
Methamphetamine 79,924 25.1 40,653 - 119,194
MDMA (Ecstasy) 16,749 16.1 11,470 - 22,029
GHB 1,084 26.7 517 - 1,652
Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) ... ... ... - ...
Ketamine 270 45.6 29 - 511
LSD 4,002 26.2 1,945 - 6,059
PCP 21,960 38.2 5,518 - 38,403
Miscellaneous hallucinogens 3,898 17.1 2,591 - 5,205
Inhalants 5,643 15.9 3,886 - 7,400
Combinations not tabulated above (NTA) 2,055 26.0 1,007 - 3,103

You obviously didn't understand the findings of the article, you idiot.

A DAWN case is any ED visit related to recent drug use.
To be a DAWN case, the relationship between the ED visit and the drug use need not be causal; the drug needsonly to be implicated in the visit. This approach accommodates cases where one or more drugs were involved butmay or may not have directly caused the condition generating the ED visit, but at the same time avoids inclusion of current medications that are unrelated. Only recent drug use is included;4 the reason a patient used a drug need not be specified; and the criteria are broad enough to encompass all types of drug-related events, including explicit drug abuse. See Appendix C: DAWN Data Collection and Statistical Methods for a full description of DAWN cases and
data collected on those cases.
pg 13

This does not suggest that the majority of ED drug misuse/abuse visits involved a single drug. In fact, the typical drug-related ED visit involves multiple drugs, but these may be of a common type. For example, an ED visit involving illicit drugs alone often involves more than one illicit drug (e.g., cocaine and heroin).


pg 17

So, if a junky smoked some weed, then overdosed on Heroin and went to the ER, this pathetic study would show marijuana as being "implicated" in the visit.

You are a freaking moron.

 
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Ns1
nothing relevant

Text
Text
Text
Text

2003-2004 Deaths from Marijuana:

Just a few:
Detriot 83
Los Angeles 62
New Orleans 47
Newark - 37
New Hampshire - 16
Utah - 48

Even if I were to believe that those are deaths caused by using marijuana so what? Unless someone forced them at gunpoint to ingest the pot they died doing what they wanted to do. I do not feel I am any more responsible to stop people from killing themselves using drugs than I am responsible for stopping someone from killing themselves base jumping, rock climbing, sky diving, or pretty much any other risky endeavor a free person chooses to engage in.

i was simply rebutting an ignorant statement made by a previous poster that marijuana has never caused a death.

I don't know how they came up with those stats, but the simple fact is, marijuana is essentially non-toxic. The lethal dose is estimated to be over one million times the effective recreational dose. Potatoes are way more toxic. Now I'm sure lots of people die while stoned, which is reflected in those links, but that is not the same as dying from marijuana toxicity - this really truly never happens. You might say what's the difference? If the weed makes you do something to get yourself killed then you might as well have died from the toxicity right? Well, as I said above, drugs cannot make you do stupid things, only you can do that to yourself.

 
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Ns1
nothing relevant

Text
Text
Text
Text

2003-2004 Deaths from Marijuana:

Just a few:
Detriot 83
Los Angeles 62
New Orleans 47
Newark - 37
New Hampshire - 16
Utah - 48

Even if I were to believe that those are deaths caused by using marijuana so what? Unless someone forced them at gunpoint to ingest the pot they died doing what they wanted to do. I do not feel I am any more responsible to stop people from killing themselves using drugs than I am responsible for stopping someone from killing themselves base jumping, rock climbing, sky diving, or pretty much any other risky endeavor a free person chooses to engage in.

i was simply rebutting an ignorant statement made by a previous poster that marijuana has never caused a death.

Without knowing the actual facts behind the numbers I think it's impossible to directly attribute Pot to deaths. It's very peculiar that 90% of the states reported zero deaths from marijuana. Not 100 deaths. Not 20 deaths. Not even 1 death. None. I think the handful that did are using different metrics to measure that. Whether it's vehicle accidents, other drugs taken with the marijuana, or simply a drug dealer shot down by a cop or another gangbanger with a bag of pot in his hand, the numbers really don't help your stance.

Pot isn't like alcohol where you can die from a night binge or other hard drugs that can cause OD's.
 
Originally posted by: preslove
You are a freaking moron.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't really believe it - he's just pissed off that he doesn't get invited to those kind of parties.
 
Originally posted by: sao123
i was simply rebutting an ignorant statement made by a previous poster that marijuana has never caused a death.

I suppose I will concede your point, even though I have no idea how they define marijuana related deaths, seeing as how I have TRIED to OD on marijuana.


It's an interesting study seeing as how there is no other information readily available on the internet to back it up.

//edit

^^

I see they've done the research for me.
 
Originally posted by: preslove
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Ns1
Originally posted by: sao123

fixed the link

I spent a minute searching that pdf and couldn't find shit, so maybe you can point it out.

2006 Emergency Room Drug related visits (includes deaths) Individual Mortality Statistics are no longer kept since 2004.

https://dawninfo.samhsa.gov/files/ED2006/DAWN2k6ED.pdf">Table 2 page 20.</a>


Total drug misuse/abuse ED visits 1,742,887 8.5 1,451,086 - 2,034,688
ED visits, illicit drugs 958,164 14.3 690,218 - 1,226,110
Cocaine Est 548,608 16.2 CI Low 374,579 - Ci Hi 722,636
Heroin Est 189,780 18.9 Ci Low 119,525 - Ci Hi 260,035
Marijuana Est 290,563 9.1 CI Low 238,737 - Ci Hi 342,388
Stimulants 107,575 19.7 66,105 - 149,046
Amphetamines 32,240 11.4 25,034 - 39,446
Methamphetamine 79,924 25.1 40,653 - 119,194
MDMA (Ecstasy) 16,749 16.1 11,470 - 22,029
GHB 1,084 26.7 517 - 1,652
Flunitrazepam (Rohypnol) ... ... ... - ...
Ketamine 270 45.6 29 - 511
LSD 4,002 26.2 1,945 - 6,059
PCP 21,960 38.2 5,518 - 38,403
Miscellaneous hallucinogens 3,898 17.1 2,591 - 5,205
Inhalants 5,643 15.9 3,886 - 7,400
Combinations not tabulated above (NTA) 2,055 26.0 1,007 - 3,103

You obviously didn't understand the findings of the article, you idiot.

A DAWN case is any ED visit related to recent drug use.
To be a DAWN case, the relationship between the ED visit and the drug use need not be causal; the drug needsonly to be implicated in the visit. This approach accommodates cases where one or more drugs were involved butmay or may not have directly caused the condition generating the ED visit, but at the same time avoids inclusion of current medications that are unrelated. Only recent drug use is included;4 the reason a patient used a drug need not be specified; and the criteria are broad enough to encompass all types of drug-related events, including explicit drug abuse. See Appendix C: DAWN Data Collection and Statistical Methods for a full description of DAWN cases and
data collected on those cases.
pg 13

This does not suggest that the majority of ED drug misuse/abuse visits involved a single drug. In fact, the typical drug-related ED visit involves multiple drugs, but these may be of a common type. For example, an ED visit involving illicit drugs alone often involves more than one illicit drug (e.g., cocaine and heroin).


pg 17

So, if a junky smoked some weed, then overdosed on Heroin and went to the ER, this pathetic study would show marijuana as being "implicated" in the visit.

You are a freaking moron.

It's true, that is why all of Sao's stats are bogus.

I remember a big story where an autopsy was performed and the cause of death was cited as marijuana and it would of been a big deal because it would of been the first time that ever happened. Turned out the person performing the autopsy was much like Sao, and looking for a way to make the holy plant seem evil. The autopsy was redone, and marijuana has never been cited as the cause of death.
 
Originally posted by: Ns1
Originally posted by: sao123
i was simply rebutting an ignorant statement made by a previous poster that marijuana has never caused a death.

I suppose I will concede your point, even though I have no idea how they define marijuana related deaths, seeing as how I have TRIED to OD on marijuana.


It's an interesting study seeing as how there is no other information readily available on the internet to back it up.

//edit

^^

I see they've done the research for me.

I wouldn't if I were you, because he isn't correct. 😉
 
Originally posted by: vi edit
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Ns1
nothing relevant

Text
Text
Text
Text

2003-2004 Deaths from Marijuana:

Just a few:
Detriot 83
Los Angeles 62
New Orleans 47
Newark - 37
New Hampshire - 16
Utah - 48

Even if I were to believe that those are deaths caused by using marijuana so what? Unless someone forced them at gunpoint to ingest the pot they died doing what they wanted to do. I do not feel I am any more responsible to stop people from killing themselves using drugs than I am responsible for stopping someone from killing themselves base jumping, rock climbing, sky diving, or pretty much any other risky endeavor a free person chooses to engage in.

i was simply rebutting an ignorant statement made by a previous poster that marijuana has never caused a death.

Pot isn't like alcohol where you can die from a night binge or other hard drugs that can cause OD's.

Bingo.
 
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