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Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,795
13,762
146
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: jonks
Topic: Do you KNOW what happens to you after you die?

Originally posted by: huberm
I believe that everyone goes to either Heaven or hell when they die. I came to this belief by examining the Bible. I determined that many things in it have been verified as historically accurate. I have also searched for anything that could have possibly been proven historically inaccurate, and found nothing. Therefore, if everything I have discovered in it can be sensibly determined as accurate, and nothing could be found and determined to be inaccurate, I can conclude that all of it is accurate. With that being said, it is my belief that what the Bible says about death is accurate and one determines which place they go to when they die according to who they live their life for.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

It always amazes me how atheists/agnostics (I am one too) spend so much time whining about how theists treat them like crap for their beliefs or lack there of... Yet so many do that very same thing to others.

I guess they have become what they hate...

Look up, something just went over your head.

No, not really. I know where the quote comes from. I addressed why you used it.

I used it because the OP asked if anyone KNEW and hub wrote about what he BELIEVED. It in no way answered or addressed the OP question. Hub brought his religious beliefs into a thread requesting knowledge, i.e. provable facts. It's my right to address that.

But that aside, his logic is pretty Amusing. He somehow determines that there are no historical inaccuracies in the bible, so concludes that it must be entirely accurate. ?

Additionally, atheists/agnostics should not take absolutest or mocking positions regarding the existence of a supreme being. Religion however is an entirely different animal, and I find no difference in mocking the bible when it is characterized as a factual document than in mocking someone who believes interdimensional aliens built the pyramids.

If you are not willing to respect (not embrace,, not endorse but simply respect) the beliefs of others you have absolutely no standing whatsoever to demand others respect yours.

You did not mock the bible. You called the man stupid for his beliefs and belittled him. His beliefs are his choice just as yours are your choice.
 

GasX

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
29,033
6
81
Originally posted by: ed21x
Originally posted by: jonks
Topic: Do you KNOW what happens to you after you die?

Originally posted by: huberm
I believe that everyone goes to either Heaven or hell when they die. I came to this belief by examining the Bible. I determined that many things in it have been verified as historically accurate. I have also searched for anything that could have possibly been proven historically inaccurate, and found nothing. Therefore, if everything I have discovered in it can be sensibly determined as accurate, and nothing could be found and determined to be inaccurate, I can conclude that all of it is accurate. With that being said, it is my belief that what the Bible says about death is accurate and one determines which place they go to when they die according to who they live their life for.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

In my opinion, this should be worthy of a ban.

why? huberm's post is not that of a devoted christian, it is either flame bait or the ramblings of a misinformed cretin.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,456
854
126
Originally posted by: ed21x
Originally posted by: jonks
Topic: Do you KNOW what happens to you after you die?

Originally posted by: huberm
I believe that everyone goes to either Heaven or hell when they die. I came to this belief by examining the Bible. I determined that many things in it have been verified as historically accurate. I have also searched for anything that could have possibly been proven historically inaccurate, and found nothing. Therefore, if everything I have discovered in it can be sensibly determined as accurate, and nothing could be found and determined to be inaccurate, I can conclude that all of it is accurate. With that being said, it is my belief that what the Bible says about death is accurate and one determines which place they go to when they die according to who they live their life for.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

In my opinion, this should be worthy of a ban.

In my opinion, this is not worthy of a ban.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,921
14
81
Originally posted by: Leros
I am 99.9999% confident that I will rot in the ground.

99.9999% because you can never be sure about anything. Reality included. I have no freaking clue if I live in a computer simulation or if I'm really in a coma dreaming.

Exactly. I'm sure I will rot in the ground -- as sure as one can be about anything.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,921
14
81
Originally posted by: Tweak155
Why we die:
Romans 6:23

Why everyone dies:
Romans 5:12

The state of the dead:
Ecclesiastes 9:5

Likened to sleeping:
Psalms 13:3

Hope for resurrection:
Acts 24:15

Why do people believe that quoting a book some sheep herders wrote is a legitimate argument for anything?

Seriously though, we're treating the possibility of an afterlife or not as if they are two equally likely possibilities, but lets pause for a minute:

"I pose that after one dies, something invisible, undetectable, and not even defined leaves the body and continues to live in some undefined place somewhere, only everything is awesome and it's black friday every day of the year..."

Is that really an equally likely possibility to "No, nothing happens and the corpse rots, as we can plainly see"

No, it's not. Realistically, an afterlife is just as silly as santa claus or homeopathy, except we all have an incentive to believe in it.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,422
8
81
No, nobody does.

Believing that there is anything but nothing is just human wishful thinking, though, IMO.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,422
8
81
Originally posted by: ed21x
Originally posted by: jonks
Topic: Do you KNOW what happens to you after you die?

Originally posted by: huberm
I believe that everyone goes to either Heaven or hell when they die. I came to this belief by examining the Bible. I determined that many things in it have been verified as historically accurate. I have also searched for anything that could have possibly been proven historically inaccurate, and found nothing. Therefore, if everything I have discovered in it can be sensibly determined as accurate, and nothing could be found and determined to be inaccurate, I can conclude that all of it is accurate. With that being said, it is my belief that what the Bible says about death is accurate and one determines which place they go to when they die according to who they live their life for.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

In my opinion, this should be worthy of a ban.
I LOL'd. It's a fairly famous line. ;)

 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,921
14
81
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: ed21x
Originally posted by: jonks
Topic: Do you KNOW what happens to you after you die?

Originally posted by: huberm
I believe that everyone goes to either Heaven or hell when they die. I came to this belief by examining the Bible. I determined that many things in it have been verified as historically accurate. I have also searched for anything that could have possibly been proven historically inaccurate, and found nothing. Therefore, if everything I have discovered in it can be sensibly determined as accurate, and nothing could be found and determined to be inaccurate, I can conclude that all of it is accurate. With that being said, it is my belief that what the Bible says about death is accurate and one determines which place they go to when they die according to who they live their life for.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

In my opinion, this should be worthy of a ban.

In my opinion, this is not worthy of a ban.

Agreed. This the first post there is mind bendingly poor logic. I mean, it's basically the assertion:

Someone gave me a list of 50 claims. I can verify that the fifth, twenty seventh, and fortieth are probably true. The ninth, eleventh and eighteenth seem reasonable. Therefore, I can conclude that all the claims in the list are 100% true. Even an elementary school child should be able to tell you that is nonsense.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
45,977
8,552
136
This is SO not worth flaming each other over. Whatever any ONE of us believes, NONE of us know.

As for me, I'm content to let the mystery be.
rose.gif
 

b2386

Member
Jan 30, 2005
130
0
0
How are some in here able to say that they are 99.9% sure there is no afterlife? Isn't it more like 50/50?
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: jonks
Topic: Do you KNOW what happens to you after you die?

Originally posted by: huberm
I believe that everyone goes to either Heaven or hell when they die. I came to this belief by examining the Bible. I determined that many things in it have been verified as historically accurate. I have also searched for anything that could have possibly been proven historically inaccurate, and found nothing. Therefore, if everything I have discovered in it can be sensibly determined as accurate, and nothing could be found and determined to be inaccurate, I can conclude that all of it is accurate. With that being said, it is my belief that what the Bible says about death is accurate and one determines which place they go to when they die according to who they live their life for.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

It always amazes me how atheists/agnostics (I am one too) spend so much time whining about how theists treat them like crap for their beliefs or lack there of... Yet so many do that very same thing to others.

I guess they have become what they hate...

Look up, something just went over your head.

No, not really. I know where the quote comes from. I addressed why you used it.

I used it because the OP asked if anyone KNEW and hub wrote about what he BELIEVED. It in no way answered or addressed the OP question. Hub brought his religious beliefs into a thread requesting knowledge, i.e. provable facts. It's my right to address that.

But that aside, his logic is pretty Amusing. He somehow determines that there are no historical inaccuracies in the bible, so concludes that it must be entirely accurate. ?

Additionally, atheists/agnostics should not take absolutest or mocking positions regarding the existence of a supreme being. Religion however is an entirely different animal, and I find no difference in mocking the bible when it is characterized as a factual document than in mocking someone who believes interdimensional aliens built the pyramids.

If you are not willing to respect (not embrace,, not endorse but simply respect) the beliefs of others you have absolutely no standing whatsoever to demand others respect yours.

You did not mock the bible. You called the man stupid for his beliefs and belittled him. His beliefs are his choice just as yours are your choice.

I don't ask anyone to 'respect' my beliefs. I ask they respect the difference between 'knowledge' and 'beliefs'.

As to me calling the man stupid for his beliefs, 1) I was quoting Billy Madison and anyone who gets insulted from a quote from a comedy is oversensitive, and 2) I wasn't mocking his beliefs, I was mocking his logic.

"I have also searched for anything that could have possibly been proven historically inaccurate, and found nothing. Therefore, if everything I have discovered in it can be sensibly determined as accurate, and nothing could be found and determined to be inaccurate, I can conclude that all of it is accurate."

!!!
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
45,977
8,552
136
Originally posted by: b2386
How are some in here able to say that they are 99.9% there is no afterlife? Isn't it more like 50/50?

Not knowing at all, which we don't, means just that, not knowing at all, and NOT 50/50.

 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: b2386
How are some in here able to say that they are 99.9% there is no afterlife? Isn't it more like 50/50?

Not knowing at all, which we don't, means just that, not knowing at all, and NOT 50/50.

I'll let Chuck Klosterman handle this:

Life is chock-full of lies, but the biggest lie is math. That's particularly clear in the discipline of probability, a field of study that's completely and wholly fake. When push comes to shove?when you truly get down to the core essence of existence?there is only one mathematical possibility: Everything is 50-50. Either something will happen, or something will not. When you flip a coin what are the odds of it coming up heads? 50-50. Either it will be heads, or it will not. When you roll a six-sided die, what are the odds that you'll roll a three? 50-50. You'll either get a three, or you won't. That's reality. Don't fall into the childish "it's one-in-six" logic trap. That is precisely what all your adolescent authority figures want you to believe. That's how they enslave you. That's how they stole your conviction, and that's why you'll never be happy. Either you will roll a three, or you will not; there are no other alternatives. The future has no memory. Certain things can be impossible, and certain things can be guaranteed?but there is no sliding scale for maybe. Maybe something will happen, or maybe it won't. That's all there is. What are the chances your sister will die from ovarian cancer next summer? 50-50 (either she'll die from ovarian cancer or she won't). What are the chances that your sister will become America's most respected underwater welding specialist? 50-50. It will happen, or it won't. There are two possibilities and both are plausible and unknown. The odds are 2:1. These facts are irrefutable. Quasi-intellectuals like to claim that math is spiritual. They are lying. Math is not religion. Math is the antireligion, because it splinters the gravity of life's only imperative equation: Either something is true, or it isn't. Do or do not; there is no try.

:laugh:
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
45,977
8,552
136
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: b2386
How are some in here able to say that they are 99.9% there is no afterlife? Isn't it more like 50/50?

Not knowing at all, which we don't, means just that, not knowing at all, and NOT 50/50.
When you roll a six-sided die, what are the odds that you'll roll a three? 50-50. You'll either get a three, or you won't. That's reality.

No, that semantically reductionist stupidity, masquerading as truth, and YOU are a troll. You buy the stupid premise, you deserve your stupid answer.

Even the four turtles that hold up our Earth, which is the center of the universe, know that.



 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,447
261
126
Originally posted by: So
Originally posted by: Tweak155
Why we die:
Romans 6:23

Why everyone dies:
Romans 5:12

The state of the dead:
Ecclesiastes 9:5

Likened to sleeping:
Psalms 13:3

Hope for resurrection:
Acts 24:15

Why do people believe that quoting a book some sheep herders wrote is a legitimate argument for anything?

Seriously though, we're treating the possibility of an afterlife or not as if they are two equally likely possibilities, but lets pause for a minute:

"I pose that after one dies, something invisible, undetectable, and not even defined leaves the body and continues to live in some undefined place somewhere, only everything is awesome and it's black friday every day of the year..."

Is that really an equally likely possibility to "No, nothing happens and the corpse rots, as we can plainly see"

No, it's not. Realistically, an afterlife is just as silly as santa claus or homeopathy, except we all have an incentive to believe in it.

I have reason for my belief. I can respect you do not - but you can say I don't know just as much as I can say you don't know.
 

Andrew1990

Banned
Mar 8, 2008
2,155
0
0
Reincarnation of some sort.

I say this because matter can not be destroyed nor created in my view. Everything that has been is still here.



Hopefully I am reincarnated as a squirl so I can bite my enemies and hide in a tree afterwards!

 

CrimsonChaos

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
551
0
0
For those saying it is not possbile to "know" what happens after you die, that isn't entirely true. It's possible people do "know" what happens after death, but have no way of proving it. I'll use a couple of very VERY simple examples:

First, what if someone asks you what will come up on the next roll of a hundred-sided die? There is a truth as to what will happen, but you really don't know for sure. So you guess a number. Now, what if you guessed right? Does this mean you "knew"? No, it was chance -- you believed something, and it happened to be true.

But, now let's take this example. What if you were told you must place the die under an opaque cup with the number 42 facing up. You are instructed that a stranger will then enter the room. It is your job to convince him of which number is facing up -- without using any words, and without moving any part of your body at all, not even your face.

In this second example, you KNOW which number is facing up, but you just don't know how to prove it to someone else within the contraints you were given. When the cup is lifted, he will see the truth (maybe he even guessed the truth correctly), but you knew it all along. In the same way, it MIGHT be possible that someone (somehow) knows what happens after death, but is not able to prove it within our human constraints. Maybe they returned from death; maybe their spirit is reincarnated and still has an understanding of its last afterlife; maybe the spirit is able to communicate with spirits of the dead.

Now please understand I'm not saying ANY of these possibilities absolutely exist, but just that it is possible one or more of them do, or maybe a different one altogether. It is possible someone knows the answer, but just is unable to prove it in the physical realm we are accustomed to.

I'll use my next post to explain a possible theory that I thought of one day.
 

CrimsonChaos

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
551
0
0
(Please read my previous post)

One strange theory I thought of (and I'm sure it's not original and has been thought up before), but what if you never die (or at least only die when your body fails in all dimensions)? To be more accurate, what if you die in one universe - but then your spirit (or stream of conciousness) traverses into another universe where you are still alive?

For example, have you ever thought of all the "near-death" experiences you've had? I remember one time when I was a kid I was in a terrible car wreck. The car was totaled, mangled beyond repair. I had but a few scratches on me. What if in that universe, I died in that wreck. My spirit moves into a different plane (perhaps this one), where now I'm in a universe where that same wreck leaves me relatively unscathed.

In the original universe, everyone grieves my death. But in the new universe, I continue life as though nothing had ever happened. Universes and their timelines all exist in parallel and perhaps simultaneously. In fact, the people that you see die in your life move to another timeline where they are still alive. You mourn for them "here", but as far as they are aware, they are still alive in a different universe.

It is only when your body fails in ALL universes and ALL timelines (if that is possible), that you truly cease to exist. Now of course, this is just a theory -- just another possibility of the millions of billions of quatrillions of possibilities of what happens when we die. And of course, this theory does not explain what happens when you do die in all timelines.

Or maybe it's just something interesting to think about.
 

SlickSnake

Diamond Member
May 29, 2007
5,237
2
0
Originally posted by: CrimsonChaos
(Please read my previous post)

One strange theory I thought of (and I'm sure it's not original and has been thought up before), but what if you never die (or at least only die when your body fails in all dimensions)? To be more accurate, what if you die in one universe - but then your spirit (or stream of conciousness) traverses into another universe where you are still alive?

For example, have you ever thought of all the "near-death" experiences you've had? I remember one time when I was a kid I was in a terrible car wreck. The car was totaled, mangled beyond repair. I had but a few scratches on me. What if in that universe, I died in that wreck. My spirit moves into a different plane (perhaps this one), where now I'm in a universe where that same wreck leaves me relatively unscathed.

In the original universe, everyone grieves my death. But in the new universe, I continue life as though nothing had ever happened. Universes and their timelines all exist in parallel and perhaps simultaneously. In fact, the people that you see die in your life move to another timeline where they are still alive. You mourn for them "here", but as far as they are aware, they are still alive in a different universe.

It is only when your body fails in ALL universes and ALL timelines (if that is possible), that you truly cease to exist. Now of course, this is just a theory -- just another possibility of the millions of billions of quatrillions of possibilities of what happens when we die. And of course, this theory does not explain what happens when you do die in all timelines.

Or maybe it's just something interesting to think about.

A Sliders fanboy, perhaps? ;)
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
45,977
8,552
136
Originally posted by: CrimsonChaos
I'll use my next post to explain a possible theory that I thought of one day.

Please don't! :Q

 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
45,977
8,552
136
Originally posted by: CrimsonChaos
(Please read my previous post)

One strange theory I thought of . . .

Too late. :(