Cuba Thread

[CPA]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: sandorski
How much of it did you see though?

Even in the West/Free World we like to put a little more effort into making Tourist destinations pleasant places. IOW, other places in Cuba may very well be in far worse condition.

Well, like I said, my GF has visited one of their houses.

I saw pretty much the entire Varadero strip along with most of the city and the market. I also took a catamaran tour and swam with dolphins. We took a jetski tour through the jungle.

The apartment buildings the locals were living in looked just like those you'd find in Toronto. The low-rises looked like something you would find near a Taco Bell, but were colourful, well-kept, and beautifully landscaped.

Maybe you should take a look at these. Seems like you were hoodwinked.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: sandorski
How much of it did you see though?

Even in the West/Free World we like to put a little more effort into making Tourist destinations pleasant places. IOW, other places in Cuba may very well be in far worse condition.

Well, like I said, my GF has visited one of their houses.

I saw pretty much the entire Varadero strip along with most of the city and the market. I also took a catamaran tour and swam with dolphins. We took a jetski tour through the jungle.

The apartment buildings the locals were living in looked just like those you'd find in Toronto. The low-rises looked like something you would find near a Taco Bell, but were colourful, well-kept, and beautifully landscaped.

Maybe you should take a look at these. Seems like you were hoodwinked.

Yet another American who's never been to Cuba, telling me what it's like there. :roll:

 

[Chadder007]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
It's retarded that the US embargo still exists.

I completely agree 100%.

Apparently 99% of what you hear about Cuba here is generated by right-wing extremists in Miami. I guess they have a right to be upset; I'm assuming that they are the former 'Bourgeoisie' of Cuba that had their mansions and such expropriated. That said, they are spreading FUD that is nonsense.

Agreed....and im a Conservative.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Here's a 'quality of life' link

Cuba ranked 108th overall, but I think the numbers are a little skewed. They were given "0" for freedom. I understand they have less freedom than people living under a democracy, but really, they can pretty much do what they want when they're not at work.

They scored very high on environment and culture, which is what I experienced and I suppose what I base most of my opinions on.

You have no idea what freedom is, do you?

 

[SickBeast]

In response to all of these "therealcuba" links:

whether or not all of the pictures CURRENTLY up at therealcuba are genuine or not, the site has in fact published evidently fake (and badly photoshopped at that) pictures in the past.

The most notorious example being a rather brilliant photo of 2 oxen towing the driver's cabin of a bus/van type vehicle. It's the sort of genius for invento which might well be found in cuba (I mean, who would have imagined you could make a Chevy into a raft? and that DEFINITELY happened more than once in Cuba). However, in this case the picture WAS NOT taken in Cuba, it was from Vietnam.

And as it turned out, therealcuba had either accepted it without question, or had even commited faking of its own, because in the original version of the ox-drawn car picture, there was plenty of text in the picture ... written in Vietnamese.

Linkified

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: FoBoT
http://www.pics.bbzzdd.com/bet...itestorm/nocommies.jpg

To be honest, I think I would rather be a Communist than live under Bush's rule.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Bush is gone in a year...try getting rid of Castro...actually you'd die trying. Why don't you read up about all the atrocities that have occurred in Cuba before making ignorant statements. This ranks up there with those dumb asses that where Che shirts.

Actually I don't think Castro will be around much longer than Bush; he's really sick.

do you really think anything will change when Castro dies? nope nothing.

if you tihnk the stuff Bush and company has done is bad you really should read up on what Castro has done. then make a decision on who is more ethical.



I do think the Embargo is silly. but NOTHING will change until Castro is dead and whoever is in charge makes a effort with the US to to allow some freedoms to Cuba

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Here's a 'quality of life' link

Cuba ranked 108th overall, but I think the numbers are a little skewed. They were given "0" for freedom. I understand they have less freedom than people living under a democracy, but really, they can pretty much do what they want when they're not at work.

They scored very high on environment and culture, which is what I experienced and I suppose what I base most of my opinions on.

You have no idea what freedom is, do you?

Canadians have more civil liberties than Americans.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
You know what amazes me the most about this thread? A bunch of beligerant and rude Americans that have never even been to Cuba have had the audacity to tell me what it's like there, and that I'm flat-out wrong. :thumbsdown:

because believe it or not many of us have talked with people that have ran from Cuba.

you went on a State sponsored trip. you did not go see teh majority of it.

Go to Florida and talk to people that have ran from cuba. they lived it and will tell you how bad it was.

I will believe what they say over someone that went on a trip for a short time.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: SickBeast
You know what amazes me the most about this thread? A bunch of beligerant and rude Americans that have never even been to Cuba have had the audacity to tell me what it's like there, and that I'm flat-out wrong. :thumbsdown:

because believe it or not many of us have talked with people that have ran from Cuba.

you went on a State sponsored trip. you did not go see teh majority of it.

Go to Florida and talk to people that have ran from cuba. they lived it and will tell you how bad it was.

I will believe what they say over someone that went on a trip for a short time.

I very much doubt that most of these people have ever spoken to a Cuban.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: abaez
Whatever you think about the country, it is one of the most amazing places. I went there three months ago and had the time of my life. Casa de la musica club was one of the best experiences.. bands don't start until midnight and people were just dancing all night.

Yes, there are alot of things wrong with the country and right now it is untouched by the corporations (going to be sad once they come in), but I am convinced it is one of the best places I will ever visit.

You can see some pics I took here: http://tinyurl.com/2p9a39

Some are from Cancun, but most are in Cuba.

This just amazes me. So, because you were able to party in some swank hotel at all hours of the night, the people of Cuba are better off now than they will be when corporations (ie, EMPLOYERS) come in and set up shop? God, are you people that blind?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: SickBeast
You know what amazes me the most about this thread? A bunch of beligerant and rude Americans that have never even been to Cuba have had the audacity to tell me what it's like there, and that I'm flat-out wrong. :thumbsdown:

because believe it or not many of us have talked with people that have ran from Cuba.

you went on a State sponsored trip. you did not go see teh majority of it.

Go to Florida and talk to people that have ran from cuba. they lived it and will tell you how bad it was.

I will believe what they say over someone that went on a trip for a short time.

I very much doubt that most of these people have ever spoken to a Cuban.

Well i know i have.

The guy came over on a raft with 15 other people (a raft that SHOULD only hold maybe 4). he left his parents and friends and risked his life to ge away from Castro.

He loves Cuba. BUT says for the avarage Cuban its is very bad.

the options for the avarage Cuban is limited.


but saying that i do think the embargo should be lifted. but it wont for a another decade or two.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Here's a 'quality of life' link

Cuba ranked 108th overall, but I think the numbers are a little skewed. They were given "0" for freedom. I understand they have less freedom than people living under a democracy, but really, they can pretty much do what they want when they're not at work.

They scored very high on environment and culture, which is what I experienced and I suppose what I base most of my opinions on.

You have no idea what freedom is, do you?

Canadians have more civil liberties than Americans.

I'm not comparing Canada and America, I'm commenting on your supposition that the people of Cuba have freedom because they can "pretty much do what they want when they're not at work."

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: abaez
Whatever you think about the country, it is one of the most amazing places. I went there three months ago and had the time of my life. Casa de la musica club was one of the best experiences.. bands don't start until midnight and people were just dancing all night.

Yes, there are alot of things wrong with the country and right now it is untouched by the corporations (going to be sad once they come in), but I am convinced it is one of the best places I will ever visit.

You can see some pics I took here: http://tinyurl.com/2p9a39

Some are from Cancun, but most are in Cuba.

This just amazes me. So, because you were able to party in some swank hotel at all hours of the night, the people of Cuba are better off now than they will be when corporations (ie, EMPLOYERS) come in and set up shop? God, are you people that blind?

sadly they see the nice (or bad) stuff and say thats how it is.

same thing happens in the US. someone goes to a crappy town and meets one or two rude people and says everyone in the area is poor and rude. when if htey jus twent another few blocks off the beaten trail they would see something more.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: FoBoT
http://www.pics.bbzzdd.com/bet...itestorm/nocommies.jpg

To be honest, I think I would rather be a Communist than live under Bush's rule.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Bush is gone in a year...try getting rid of Castro...actually you'd die trying. Why don't you read up about all the atrocities that have occurred in Cuba before making ignorant statements. This ranks up there with those dumb asses that where Che shirts.

Actually I don't think Castro will be around much longer than Bush; he's really sick.

do you really think anything will change when Castro dies? nope nothing.

if you tihnk the stuff Bush and company has done is bad you really should read up on what Castro has done. then make a decision on who is more ethical.

Castro took Cuba from extreme poverty and corruption under the previous regime (Batista) and made it into what it is today.

Basically what happened was:

1. Cuba was democratic with very rich people controlling most of the country.

2. Castro came in with communism and upset the rich by expropriating their property.

3. The rich fled to Miami, only to attempt to kill castro with the help of the Americans (which in my eyes is just as bad as Castro's coup to kill Batista).

4. The Cuban Missle Crisis occured, really in response to the attempted overthrow/murder of Castro.

5. The US embargoed Cuba.

I agree that Castro is evil in the sense that he is essentially enslaving all of Cuba.

IMO Bush has killed way more people than Castro ever has. The Iraq war has caused more casualties each year than 9-11 did. It is shameful to make money killing people.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Here's a 'quality of life' link

Cuba ranked 108th overall, but I think the numbers are a little skewed. They were given "0" for freedom. I understand they have less freedom than people living under a democracy, but really, they can pretty much do what they want when they're not at work.

They scored very high on environment and culture, which is what I experienced and I suppose what I base most of my opinions on.

You have no idea what freedom is, do you?

Canadians have more civil liberties than Americans.

I'm not comparing Canada and America, I'm commenting on your supposition that the people of Cuba have freedom because they can "pretty much do what they want when they're not at work."

I was simply making the point that they do have *some* freedom. There were even some civilian Cubans staying at the resort I was at. The report I read gave Cuba a score of "0" when it came to freedom. Like I said, to me a "0" means everyone is locked up in jail or something ridiculous.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: CPA

Originally posted by: abaez
Whatever you think about the country, it is one of the most amazing places. I went there three months ago and had the time of my life. Casa de la musica club was one of the best experiences.. bands don't start until midnight and people were just dancing all night.

Yes, there are alot of things wrong with the country and right now it is untouched by the corporations (going to be sad once they come in), but I am convinced it is one of the best places I will ever visit.

You can see some pics I took here: http://tinyurl.com/2p9a39

Some are from Cancun, but most are in Cuba.

This just amazes me. So, because you were able to party in some swank hotel at all hours of the night, the people of Cuba are better off now than they will be when corporations (ie, EMPLOYERS) come in and set up shop? God, are you people that blind?

sadly they see the nice (or bad) stuff and say thats how it is.

same thing happens in the US. someone goes to a crappy town and meets one or two rude people and says everyone in the area is poor and rude. when if htey jus twent another few blocks off the beaten trail they would see something more.

If you actually took the time to read what he linked to, he said that Havana was very clean everywhere he saw. IMO an extensive tour of Havana is enough to get a decent taste of how ordinary Cubans live. It's their largest city and over 1/4 of their population lives there.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: SickBeast
You know what amazes me the most about this thread? A bunch of beligerant and rude Americans that have never even been to Cuba have had the audacity to tell me what it's like there, and that I'm flat-out wrong. :thumbsdown:

because believe it or not many of us have talked with people that have ran from Cuba.

you went on a State sponsored trip. you did not go see teh majority of it.

Go to Florida and talk to people that have ran from cuba. they lived it and will tell you how bad it was.

I will believe what they say over someone that went on a trip for a short time.

I very much doubt that most of these people have ever spoken to a Cuban.

Well i know i have.

The guy came over on a raft with 15 other people (a raft that SHOULD only hold maybe 4). he left his parents and friends and risked his life to ge away from Castro.

He loves Cuba. BUT says for the avarage Cuban its is very bad.

the options for the avarage Cuban is limited.


but saying that i do think the embargo should be lifted. but it wont for a another decade or two.

Did he ever go into detail about why he left?

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: FoBoT
http://www.pics.bbzzdd.com/bet...itestorm/nocommies.jpg

To be honest, I think I would rather be a Communist than live under Bush's rule.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Bush is gone in a year...try getting rid of Castro...actually you'd die trying. Why don't you read up about all the atrocities that have occurred in Cuba before making ignorant statements. This ranks up there with those dumb asses that where Che shirts.

Actually I don't think Castro will be around much longer than Bush; he's really sick.

do you really think anything will change when Castro dies? nope nothing.

if you tihnk the stuff Bush and company has done is bad you really should read up on what Castro has done. then make a decision on who is more ethical.

Castro took Cuba from extreme poverty and corruption under the previous regime (Batista) and made it into what it is today.

Basically what happened was:

1. Cuba was democratic with very rich people controlling most of the country.

2. Castro came in with communism and upset the rich by expropriating their property.

3. The rich fled to Miami, only to attempt to kill castro with the help of the Americans (which in my eyes is just as bad as Castro's coup to kill Batista).

4. The Cuban Missle Crisis occured, really in response to the attempted overthrow/murder of Castro.

5. The US embargoed Cuba.

I agree that Castro is evil in the sense that he is essentially enslaving all of Cuba.

IMO Bush has killed way more people than Castro ever has. The Iraq war has caused more casualties each year than 9-11 did. It is shameful to make money killing people.

Good grief! Krushchev risked nuclear war between the US and USSR because of a CIA assasination plot? Is that really what you learned in history? And do you really believe it was just the rich that fled Cuba? I'm glad you enjoyed your trip to Cuba, now please visit a library and read up on what really took place in the aftermath of the Cuban Revolution. Be sure not skip over all those executions presided over by Che Guevarra.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I've visited both the US and Cuba. Based on how the people treated me alone I would rather be in Cuba.

WTF, were you wandering around main cities during business hours interrupting people trying to conduct commerce or were you at Knotts Berry Farm where people are paid to be friendly? Cause you're going to get a slightly different reaction.

Still, if most of what comes out of your yaphole is half as stupid as this post, I can't blame anybody for rolling their eyes and telling you to take the next ferry back to Canuckistan. And screw ANYBODY who thinks less of America for sending our men and women to risk their lives to stabilize Iraq. The original questionable mission to defeat Saddam's regime was over after a few months. The NEW mission is to try to keep the place safe while they form a new government. And the rest of the world doing nothing but thumbing their noses at the situation is deplorable.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: FoBoT
http://www.pics.bbzzdd.com/bet...itestorm/nocommies.jpg

To be honest, I think I would rather be a Communist than live under Bush's rule.

you obviously are very ignorant of both governments then, or are simply a commie through and through. so which is it... possibly both?

better yet. just take it to P&N. :roll:

I would say you're a little deluded there yourself. I agree with Sickbeast: communism>fascism. (not that I'm a fan of communism, and not that Bush is 100% fascist, but Cheney's policies sure as shit are, by every quality of fascism.)

anyhoo, I also agree that this likely belongs in P&N

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I've visited both the US and Cuba. Based on how the people treated me alone I would rather be in Cuba.

WTF, were you wandering around main cities during business hours interrupting people trying to conduct commerce or were you at Knotts Berry Farm where people are paid to be friendly? Cause you're going to get a slightly different reaction.

Still, if most of what comes out of your yaphole is half as stupid as this post, I can't blame anybody for rolling their eyes and telling you to take the next ferry back to Canuckistan. And screw ANYBODY who thinks less of America for sending our men and women to risk their lives to stabilize Iraq. The original questionable mission to defeat Saddam's regime was over after a few months. The NEW mission is to try to keep the place safe while they form a new government. And the rest of the world doing nothing but thumbing their noses at the situation is deplorable.

Seeing as the US destabilized Iraq to begin with, you guys had better well clean up the mess.

All of the current instability is simply the insurgents attacking the American troops. Get rid of the troops and Iraq will settle down.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: SickBeast
In Cuba I could live with a cleaner conscience than I could in the US. I have enormous issues with the Iraq war.

You didn't start the war. You're defined by your own actions, not by those of your government.

By paying taxes I would be supporting their actions. Honestly I would contantly feel compelled to start a revolution and protest all the time.

not to mention, I'm uncomfortable living among those who vote for and support such asshats. There are only so many highly populated, (not to mention highly educated) regions of this country that allow one to escape such ignorance...

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
anyhoo, I also agree that this likely belongs in P&N

This thread de-generated into P&N via a flame-war.

I agree it should *now* be there. I started this thread to talk about a vacation in Cuba so I figured it belonged here. :shrug;

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
LOL. Dude goes to the touristy parts of Cuba and formulates an impression. Feels strongly enough about it to post on a message board forum. Canadian public school system FTW!!!!

it's like defining Mexico based on Cancun (meaning the resort area where the tourists are confined from the real Cancun)

 

[So]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Here's another opinion of Cuba...I may not be so far off

There is a joke about Cuba and Fidel Castro that suggests that if Fidel could walk on water, the United States would report that he is too old to swim, i.e., here, everything about Cuba receives a negative spin.

He also talks about how good their education and health care systems are, among other things.

political persecution.....but they have free healthcare!

authoritarian police state.....but they have free healthcare!

almost zero economic mobility.....but they have free healthcare!

dismal industrial and agricultural efficiency....but they have free healthcare!

no personal freedoms.....but they have free healthcare!

independent and UN human rights agencies not allowed in the country.....but they have free healthcare!

standard of living stuck in the 1950s.....but they have free healthcare!

Don't forget the free healthcare.