Crytek says they will not longer be pc exclusive

[jdelrio22]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
I think a lot of the people here who have a strong negative reaction to developers blaming poor sales on piracy are really just offended because they feel they're being lumped in with people who pirate games. It's like when the teacher punishes the whole class because a few rowdy kids were making trouble.

The fact is, though, piracy is a problem for PC games. I'm not sure anyone knows just how big of a problem it is, for several reasons, but I'm sure it affects PC game sales at least a little, if not quite a bit more. There are just too many factors involved to be able to narrow down its effects with any certainty.

1. Do PC gamers tend to buy more or less games than console gamers?
2. How big a role does the recent falling quality and lack of innovation in PC games play? Are gamers simply too demanding?
3. How many people pirate games without ever intending to buy them (e.g., given the choice between purchasing the game and simply never being able to play it at all, they would choose the latter)?
4. Does the economic downturn affect this as well?
5. Chicken and egg theory: Are gamers moving to consoles because more and better games are being developed for them, or are console games better because gamers are moving to consoles?
6. This probably represents a fairly small number, but how many of those pirated copies were downloaded by people who either eventually bought the game (i.e. used a pirated copy as a demo) or who already bought the game and are downloading it to bypass restrictive DRM schemes?

Even though you posted this some 5 pages back I gotta agree with a lot in regards to this statement.

A lot of people here seem to think that a loss of a potential sale isn't piracy if they "tried" the game and decided not to buy it. Realize that all that box art that they put on the box is to actually sell the game to you. So when you download, pirate, and decide not to buy you basically in a sense did just steal. So yes if you don't like a game and you bought it you are stuck with and thats where this whole used video games sale business like Gamestop came in for console gaming. PCs use things like CD keys and such and because of how easy it is for someone to retain a pc game on their machine, it is why you don't see this used games market.

Regardless if you support or don't support piracy, the reality is that this market is becoming less and less profitable because of multiple factors and with increasing development costs, it is natural for a company to look to other forms of distribution to earn a profit. Piracy just happens to be one and it does affect everyone from the seller to the consumer.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Too rushed to post the definition of piracy, which is quite different than that of theft?

Piracy is theft, theft is not necessarily piracy. Go ahead and compare the definitions of them all you would like.

Drawing parallels between someone downloading a game and corporate espionage is absolutely absurd, and you know as well as I do that has nothing to do with the topic.

How so? The only people I see try and make a distinction normally are those who are pirates but think they have too much moral fibre to do something like stealing.....

Pirates are NOT removing IP from the owners.

Keep the part in context.

Like I said, whether or not theyre morally equivalent is up for debate, but they are not the same action. Confusing the issue at hand is counter productive.

Stealing a car is not the same action as stealing a horse either- they are still both theft.

I think its absolutely absurd that the devs/pubs continue to force DRM upon paying customers, when it never has, and never will prevent piracy.

I absolutely agree- far moreso then you most likely. It is precisely because I agree with this so strongly that I want the criminals who made it necessary for millions of people to lose tme dealinig with DRM to be behind bars. Which starts to bring the discussion full circle. Publishers spend extra dev time and costs to create DRM to make it slightly more difficult for pirates- the extra time and money they spend leads to extra time and frustration on the part of honest people just trying to play the game they rightfully paid for. Add up the cumulative worth and you are well into the billions of dollars worth of actual money spent and man hours worth sunk into supporting these thieves. Just so you don't get the wrong impression- I do think that everyone involved in the root kit fiasco should have been sent to jail for their crimes also(as distributing virii that disrupts computers intentionally is also a criminal offense). I am far removed from a supporter of draconian DRM in any way shape or form- but something must be done to stop the criminals.

Can you really blame people? The extreme anti-piracy fundamentalists are constantly going around chastising everyone who isn't them for not being righteous enough and for not subscribing to their idea that each and every act of downloading media from file sharing networks, regardless of any mitigating circumstances, is a jail-worthy sin.

That has to be one of the more ignorant comments I have seen in this thread, and that is saying something. Point to me ever saying anything negative about file sharing networks in any way whatsoever. I have many years worth of posts on these forums- try and find it(you won't). I have an issue with pirates- they may like to utilize file sharing to facilitate, but I wouldn't have an issue with product shipped across the ocean despite the original pirates utilizing that as their main source for theft.

What if someone buys a game and has major difficulty using it because of a DRM scheme?

Crack it. You are removing parts of something you paid for there, not stealing. After you bought the game, have at it- mods are thriving and popular for good reason, removing DRM from a legally acquired game is much the same(modifying for increased enjoyment). You can likely find posts of me explaining to people how to crack games that were known to be problematic on these forums, if they legally purchased it then they should have at it. If what I have seen in this thread is any indication, you seriously need to work on your comprehension and research abilities. Your posts so far have been assuming to an absurd degree and ill informed overall.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Can you really blame people? The extreme anti-piracy fundamentalists are constantly going around chastising everyone who isn't them for not being righteous enough and for not subscribing to their idea that each and every act of downloading media from file sharing networks, regardless of any mitigating circumstances, is a jail-worthy sin.

That has to be one of the more ignorant comments I have seen in this thread, and that is saying something. Point to me ever saying anything negative about file sharing networks in any way whatsoever. I have many years worth of posts on these forums- try and find it(you won't). I have an issue with pirates- they may like to utilize file sharing to facilitate, but I wouldn't have an issue with product shipped across the ocean despite the original pirates utilizing that as their main source for theft.

Okay, in this situation you're latching on to the phrase "media from file sharing networks" when I probably should have narrowed it down to "games." Also, when I said "Can you really blame people?", I was referring to how you're getting a lot of resistance, not to how a lot of people pirate games.

To rephrase, what I'm saying is that you should expect to be met with a lot of resistance to your ideas from the people here, even if they are against piracy, because your stance is so extreme and you accuse everyone who doesn't share your extreme views of supporting piracy or of being mentally unstable.

You never actually did address my point anyway. This seems like a common strategy for you. Ignore 90% of someone's post and only respond to a single phrase that doesn't even have anything to do with the core meaning of the post. My question to you is, why do you take the approach of attacking people who aren't as hardline as you? Must everyone share your opinions for them to be "truly" anti-piracy? Isn't it possible to be anti-piracy but to take a more progressive stance? I'm not saying you should change your own opinions, but you seem to think that everyone who doesn't share your opinions with the same fervor isn't really against piracy at all.

If what I have seen in this thread is any indication, you seriously need to work on your comprehension and research abilities. Your posts so far have been assuming to an absurd degree and ill informed overall.

And yours have been packed with straw men, poor analogies, refusal to acknowledge any middle ground, and evasiveness. You'd be a slick politician. But I wouldn't vote for you.

 

[StrangerGuy]

I never wanted to touch Crysis a single bit . But I'm worse than pirates because as least pirates might buy the game if they liked it unlike me who gives a straight $0 to Crytek.

I am sooooooooooooo going to jail.

 

[ShawnD1]

I don't just seed torrents and crack their games, I send mail bombs to Crytek and kidnap board members

(not really)

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
I absolutely agree- far moreso then you most likely. It is precisely because I agree with this so strongly that I want the criminals who made it necessary for millions of people to lose tme dealinig with DRM to be behind bars. Which starts to bring the discussion full circle. Publishers spend extra dev time and costs to create DRM to make it slightly more difficult for pirates- the extra time and money they spend leads to extra time and frustration on the part of honest people just trying to play the game they rightfully paid for. Add up the cumulative worth and you are well into the billions of dollars worth of actual money spent and man hours worth sunk into supporting these thieves. Just so you don't get the wrong impression- I do think that everyone involved in the root kit fiasco should have been sent to jail for their crimes also(as distributing virii that disrupts computers intentionally is also a criminal offense). I am far removed from a supporter of draconian DRM in any way shape or form- but something must be done to stop the criminals.

I just want to address that one sentiment from your post, because the rest isnt worth my time.

Pirates are not to blame for DRM. The publishers are. DRM is an attempt to stop piracy, but it has failed miserably. Even the most draconian DRM scheme like the one in bioshock failed. Putting DRM in is nothing more than a backwards business decision that continues on from apparently nothing more than tradition. It's not as if DRM *ever* worked, so why they continue to even bother, when it only denigrates the product for their paying customers is absolutely beyond me. Its as if there's a whole anti-piracy dept. working in these publishers, and DRM ends up in the game just because these people need something to do. Someone should just fire them already - all their brilliant protection schemes are pointless.

Its as if airport security checks every paying customer on line, and ignores the terrorists just strolling by because they didnt feel like stopping and waiting. And their solution to the problem is to bother paying customers even more, because of the terrorists. Its stupid.

Its stupidity is only demonstrated further when you see sins of a solar empire topping the PC charts. The game doesnt even have a CD-check. It should be a wakeup call to the industry.

 

[Lithan]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

There is a VERY, VERY big difference between theft and piracy.

Not really.

Piracy involves copying, not taking.

They are taking the IP. If company A comes up with the design for a revolutionary fuel type that will change the world and company B pirates the design and gets it to market first, that isn't theft? That isn't taking something? By the standard you are putting in place, it wouldn't be. As they did not steal any durable or consumable good then it does not constitute theft.

Actually, that's industrial espionage and it's what made this country the superpower it is today.

Piracy? Yeah it's bad. No, it's not theft. If I sell the worlds most delicious apples after years and years of selective breeding, and someone buys my apple, plants a seed and grows their own tree, so that they have all the delicious apples they want, can I get them thrown in jail? Nope, so I'll start removing all the seeds from my apples prior to selling them. And then how many apples will I sell? Do you want a brown apple that's falling apart because some idiot punched all the seeds out of it? The protection of data as Intellectual property is just as stupid as if the publishing industry sued libraries. These entertainment industries need to realize that they must provide something that can't be gotten through piracy. Otherwise that they're just going to become more and more alienated from their audience like the RIAA and eventually crumble as they are replaced by superior business models.

Also, Crytek is full of shit blaming Piracy for their failings.

 

[BenSkywalker]

To rephrase, what I'm saying is that you should expect to be met with a lot of resistance to your ideas from the people here, even if they are against piracy, because your stance is so extreme and you accuse everyone who doesn't share your extreme views of supporting piracy or of being mentally unstable.

I have attacked people's posts, not the people. You talk about my viewpoint being extreme, why is that there hasn't been any counterpoints offered for what should be done to pirates? I have already provided the links to demonstrate that they do put pirates in jail the same as shoplifters, I am simply advocating increasing the enforcement level as it would certainly reduce piracy. Asking for enforcement of a law and sentencing already on the books may be extreme to some, I just have a hard time rationalizing how it can truly be viewed as extreme as what some of you are trying to make it out as.

You never actually did address my point anyway.

What point? If the developer didn't offer a demo? That doesn't change my stance at all. Pulbishers spend millions in marketing trying to get people to buy their games, if you buy and don't like it, unfortunately that's just too bad. If I had every dollar back I've spent on lousy games and movies I could probably take the family to Hawaii for a week. Doesn't mean I'm going to start stealing because I've made poor choices on my entertainment dollars.

And yours have been packed with straw men, poor analogies, refusal to acknowledge any middle ground, and evasiveness.

Really? We have had people try and claim that neither pirates nor shoplifters go to jail, that the issues are civil not criminal, and that piracy is not theft. By definition of the word, by letter of the law and with evidence to back myself up I have shown otherwise. Should I have attempted to take middle ground there? What exactly am I supposed to do with such ignorant comments? Ignore reality? Furthermore- I haven't seen anything suggested to counter pirates except one person's suggestion for civil litigation. The only thing that will assure is that the publishers will only have the ability to go after large scale operations and not the people who make those viable. That will have effectiveness comparable to DRM.

Hard to give serious thought to middle ground on a combination of misinformation and people saying I am way out of line with no counter measures offered. That is very much like a politician- point and finger and yell extremism without offering anything resembling a solution to the problem.

Pirates are not to blame for DRM. The publishers are. DRM is an attempt to stop piracy

DRM is a middle ground to my 'extremism'. If pirates didn't exist, there wouldn't be any DRM. Is DRM stupid? Absolutely. As a publisher- what would YOU do to try and stop piracy?

The protection of data as Intellectual property is just as stupid as if the publishing industry sued libraries.

Publish someone's book online and see where it gets you. Publishers at one point did try to sue rental companies of games, rightly so they lost their case as they had legally purchased the titles to start with.

These entertainment industries need to realize that they must provide something that can't be gotten through piracy.

Are you advocating the destruction of the game, movie, and music industry? Because no matter what method of distribution you use, pirates can get around them all.

 

[BD2003]

Common pirates should not be thrown in jail. Our jails are overcrowded enough as it is. Theres so many violent offenders let out early because of the overcrowding that it would be absolutely beyond stupid to throw someone in prison for a year because they downloaded a game. Our law enforcement is also already over-burdened, they don't need a whole new class of petty crime to fill their jails and squad cars with. Even if anyone were to take your ideas seriously, the amount of money, time and resources needed to implement such a system would be absolutely outrageous. I'm sorry that I dont put piracy up at the same level as rape, but I'd rather they spend more time finding violent offenders, tax cheats, etc etc than raiding some kid's PC in his mom's basement.

Publishers should be focusing more effort on taking down the distributors. Torrent sites, release groups, and especially resellers of pirated games. They have bigger fish to fry than the "users". They should focus on the "dealers."

Theres no point in focusing on unrealistic solutions to the problem. DRM is an unrealistic solution that doesnt solve the problem, which is unfortunately still around. Suing/jailing individual downloaders is inefficient - the time and resources are better spent elsewhere, not to mention it will be met by the same outrage the RIAA has to face.

While theyre at it, they should do as much as they can to make the product they sell better than what one can pirate. Include a serial with the game that provides access to a website/service where add-ons/mods can be DLed, tie it to online multiplayer etc. One could argue that they shouldnt *have* to do such a thing, but again - realistic solutions are needed, not finger pointing.

 

[batmang]

The console market is BOOMING. I don't blame them for jumping on the wagon. They have a ton of potential with their engines but not much income is coming in. Think about how much time and money was spent on making CryEngine 2. They need to apply that in a market that will repay them. Million plus copies sold of Crysis is great, but look how much money Halo has brought Bungie. CryEngine 2 has that kind of potential.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Theres so many violent offenders let out early because of the overcrowding that it would be absolutely beyond stupid to throw someone in prison for a year because they downloaded a game.

This is where the one year part comes in, they wouldn't be serving time in the same facilities as murderers and rapists, they would be sent to the local facilities used for people who commit minor crimes. They may push shoplifters and those caught with marijuana out of a cell.

Even if anyone were to take your ideas seriously, the amount of money, time and resources needed to implement such a system would be absolutely outrageous.

We are talking about billions of dollars worth now, what level would it take for you to consider it worth while? Not being argumentative at all on this one, just curious I agree that the initial cost would be high, but a force used to uphold these laws could also be utilized to help capture child pornography and id theft criminals.

Publishers should be focusing more effort on taking down the distributors. Torrent sites, release groups, and especially resellers of pirated games. They have bigger fish to fry than the "users". They should focus on the "dealers."

P2P networks have largely negated the effectiveness of that approach also.

While theyre at it, they should do as much as they can to make the product they sell better than what one can pirate. Include a serial with the game that provides access to a website/service where add-ons/mods can be DLed, tie it to online multiplayer etc. One could argue that they shouldnt *have* to do such a thing, but again - realistic solutions are needed, not finger pointing.

That is actually a very good idea. I would certainly strongly advocate that over anything close to the DRM we have seen to date.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
This is where the one year part comes in, they wouldn't be serving time in the same facilities as murderers and rapists, they would be sent to the local facilities used for people who commit minor crimes. They may push shoplifters and those caught with marijuana out of a cell.

There's still not enough room, and we have enough damn prisons already. Hell, theres a ton of drunk drivers that never see a jail cell, and even if then, not for very long. Even if there was space and money to jail individual downloaders, that space is better used for other criminals.

And I have to say, its pretty absurd that you think it's perfectly alright that they push a shoplifter out of a cell to throw the pirate in. I thought it was the same thing? If there is to be a criminal punishment for the downloaders themselves, it *must* be a fine, and it must be reasonable. Running a red light, which can potentially kill someone, is just a fine. It would be absolutely *insane* to throw downloaders in jail. The punishment has to fit the crime.

We are talking about billions of dollars worth now, what level would it take for you to consider it worth while? Not being argumentative at all on this one, just curious I agree that the initial cost would be high, but a force used to uphold these laws could also be utilized to help capture child pornography and id theft criminals.

Like I said, I'm not saying its not a problem. Its certainly worthwhile to fight piracy, but it needs to be done on the supply end. I absolutely do *not* want my tax dollars spent on hunting and jailing individual software pirates. This isnt armed robbery or aggravated assault. Theres no getting around the fact that resources are limited, and theres not enough money to solve even more important problems. Software piracy is way near the bottom of my list of things our gov should be spending money on. Child porn and id theft are much higher. It would be a much better idea to directly fight id theft and indirectly nab pirates than the other way around.

P2P networks have largely negated the effectiveness of that approach also.

Theyre not trying hard enough. Every dollar spent on DRM is one not spent on fighting the root of the problem. With torrents nowadays, its never been so damn easy to pirate. Again, their time is better spent on lobbying for legislation to catch the dealers, not the users.

That is actually a very good idea. I would certainly strongly advocate that over anything close to the DRM we have seen to date.

And such a thing would go much further towards a real solution, not to mention doesnt even further exacerbate the problem we have with the limited gov. funds needed to solve everyday problems.

 

[Lithan]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Are you advocating the destruction of the game, movie, and music industry? Because no matter what method of distribution you use, pirates can get around them all.

Matter of fact statement does not equal advocation.

 

[BenSkywalker]

There's still not enough room, and we have enough damn prisons already. Hell, theres a ton of drunk drivers that never see a jail cell, and even if then, not for very long. Even if there was space and money to jail individual downloaders, that space is better used for other criminals.

One year or less you are talking about non violent criminals of crimes comparable to piracy.

And I have to say, its pretty absurd that you think it's perfectly alright that they push a shoplifter out of a cell to throw the pirate in.

It would work the other way too. If the cell was filled with a pirate that had served part of a sentence and they needed the cell for a shoplifter the pirate would get booted. Give most software pirates a month in jail and they would likely learn their lesson.

If there is to be a criminal punishment for the downloaders themselves, it *must* be a fine, and it must be reasonable. Running a red light, which can potentially kill someone, is just a fine.

No, it isn't necessarily. Go run 20 red lights over the course of a couple weeks and get caught and tell me how it is just a fine . Read what I have been advocating and it is for habitual offenders.

It would be absolutely *insane* to throw downloaders in jail. The punishment has to fit the crime.

Larceny has always been punishable by jail time, why should it be different for games? Claiming it is insanity you then must deem the laws that call for the sentence to be insane, all I'm talking about is enforcing laws that are *already on the books*.

I absolutely do *not* want my tax dollars spent on hunting and jailing individual software pirates.

That's fine. EA, Nintendo, Sony and MS pay in billions in tax dollars, they can use some of their tax money instead of yours.

This isnt armed robbery or aggravated assault.

Over 300 people in CA in jail for life for shoplifting. What I am talking about is cuddly kittens compared to what we are already doing to people of comparable guilt.

Software piracy is way near the bottom of my list of things our gov should be spending money on.

Alright, what if I present from a different angle. What if the software publishers took every penny they were spending on DRM and instead financed law enforcement officials to go after pirates and then put them behind bars.

Child porn and id theft are much higher. It would be a much better idea to directly fight id theft and indirectly nab pirates than the other way around.

Agreed.

And such a thing would go much further towards a real solution, not to mention doesnt even further exacerbate the problem we have with the limited gov. funds needed to solve everyday problems.

It wouldn't be even close to a real solution, not remotely. Someone would buy one legit copy, get the content, crack the encryption and have it up on torrents in a modified package. That said, it would still be WAY better then the pathetic DRM that we have seen to date.

As somewhat of a side note, with P2P networks the distributors of most illegal content now is the typical pirate, not someone running some major site. Going after the distributors largely now would also be going after the individual end users.

Matter of fact statement does not equal advocation.

There are ways to avoid anarchy, even if they are not being utilized at the moment.

 

[BD2003]

I'm sure throwing pirates in jail, even for just a week, would go a long way towards curbing piracy. I just question the sanity and practicality of that as a solution. To prosecute a single pirate would require several hours of investigation by at least one detective, a search warrant to be issued by a judge, a raid to nab the computer on which the pirated software exists, an analyst to determine what exactly has been committed, several lawyers, 12 jurors and god knows what else.

Shoplifting, traffic violations and other petty crimes are different because the perpetrators are caught in the act, outside of their own home. You cant catch a pirate in the act and *prove a specific individual comitted the crime* without violating their rights by spying on their internet activity or raiding their home, going through a massive investigation and procedure that will probably cost thousands of dollars of the taxpayers money.

What you are suggesting is absolutely beyond reason for the crime being committed. That might be injustice to devs/pubs, but even they have to work within the bounds of reality to solve the problem. I've no doubt your theory is correct, and it is absolutely unfair that the gaming industry has to deal with the problem. Even if we were to agree on the moral equivalence and punishment of piracy and theft being equal, the nature of the crime makes trying the two of them in the same way impossible, because one takes place in public, and the other takes place in home.

Where those pennies can be spent best is raiding modding houses, distribution groups that leak the games before they even come out, and resellers, as has been done in the past, and will continue to be done.

To my knowledge, the RIAA has not actually brought anyone to trial yet - because they know that they cant *prove* a specific individual committed a crime by just an IP address. So they just extort individuals out of money by "cutting them a deal" so they don't get sued. Its outrageous that theyre able to get away with that kind of extortion because they have more money and lawyers than any average joe, and the law entitles them to something insane like 200k per song. And yes, before you ask, this is more outrageous than what the pirates get away with IMO.

Youre oversimplifying a very complicated problem..."just throw em in jail" isn't going to work when you actually think about what doing so would actually entail. In your fantasy world where such a thing can happen at a snap of a finger, you might be on to something, and your theoretical solution just might work. In the real world, you're out of your mind.

The most painful reality of all is that piracy has existed and always will exist. They've never found a good solution to it, and its possible they never will. And despite this injustice, the video game industry is not going to collapse.

 

[miniMUNCH]

It is crazy how people in this thread are throwing Crytek under the bus about sounding the alarm over piracy.

Piracy hits all for profit software to some degree and it hits PC games extremely hard.

But the industry is doing something about it... like i said... more and more games are going to go server side and then it will be effectively impossible to play a game you have not payed for.

 

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
I think a lot of the people here who have a strong negative reaction to developers blaming poor sales on piracy are really just offended because they feel they're being lumped in with people who pirate games. It's like when the teacher punishes the whole class because a few rowdy kids were making trouble.

The fact is, though, piracy is a problem for PC games.

No, you know why? 1 Pirated Game != 1 less sale. The fact is, for most pirates, just because they can't prate something does not mean they'll buy it.

Ergo, piracy causes almost 0 net loss.

 

[BFG10K]

I wish developers would officially remove DRM after their games are no longer "hot".

Epic and ID software have a great record with officially removing CD checks and I was also pleasantly surprised to see Prey's 1.4 patch remove the CD check along with Blizzard's latest Starcraft and Warcraft 3 patches.

I don't see why I should be hassled in inserting a CD 5 years after a game has shipped. That?s not helping sales, it?s only hindering me.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
I wish developers would officially remove DRM after their games are no longer "hot".

Epic and ID software have a great record with officially removing CD checks and I was also pleasantly surprised to see Prey's 1.4 patch remove the CD check along with Blizzard's latest Starcraft and Warcraft 3 patches.

I don't see why I should be hassled in inserting a CD 5 years after a game has shipped. That?s not helping sales, it?s only hindering me.

starcraft and WC3 are only 11 and 6 years old, respctively

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Originally posted by: videogames101

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
I think a lot of the people here who have a strong negative reaction to developers blaming poor sales on piracy are really just offended because they feel they're being lumped in with people who pirate games. It's like when the teacher punishes the whole class because a few rowdy kids were making trouble.

The fact is, though, piracy is a problem for PC games.

No, you know why? 1 Pirated Game != 1 less sale. The fact is, for most pirates, just because they can't prate something does not mean they'll buy it.

Ergo, piracy causes almost 0 net loss.

Challenge: Assume that Someone who pirated a game would not have bought that game anyway. Now prove that his pirating of that game did not impact his decision to buy/not buy other games. Given that other games are market competitors to legit game A, they should also be considered market competitors to stolen game A.

Or in short, if a man steals a game, even if he wouldn't have bought the game, he recieves free entertainment. And this devalues ALL entertainment, and creates a very tangible cost.



Assertation: A pirated game may not equal 1 less sale for legit game. But even if it equals .001 less sale for the legit game, it also equals .001 less sale for every other game in competition, and the net effect of a pirated game is far, far more then 0 net loss.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: videogames101

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
I think a lot of the people here who have a strong negative reaction to developers blaming poor sales on piracy are really just offended because they feel they're being lumped in with people who pirate games. It's like when the teacher punishes the whole class because a few rowdy kids were making trouble.

The fact is, though, piracy is a problem for PC games.

No, you know why? 1 Pirated Game != 1 less sale. The fact is, for most pirates, just because they can't prate something does not mean they'll buy it.

Ergo, piracy causes almost 0 net loss.

grade A baloney.

 

[JBT]

I can under stand why so many people would pirate Crysis. Its reqs are so high that you have to test it out to see if your PC is up to snuff. I'd wager most pirate it and found out their PC just doesn't cut it to run that game and end up not buying it. Frankly on my PC it doesn't run "great" but it is still acceptable. I like most people here on AT also probably have a video card better than the average Joe...

 

[EvilComputer92]

Originally posted by: JBT
I can under stand why so many people would pirate Crysis. Its reqs are so high that you have to test it out to see if your PC is up to snuff. I'd wager most pirate it and found out their PC just doesn't cut it to run that game and end up not buying it. Frankly on my PC it doesn't run "great" but it is still acceptable. I like most people here on AT also probably have a video card better than the average Joe...

They made a demo for a reason. That's a really stupid excuse to pirate.

 

[BFG10K]

starcraft and WC3 are only 11 and 6 years old, respctively

Ah well, better late than never.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I'm sure throwing pirates in jail, even for just a week, would go a long way towards curbing piracy. I just question the sanity and practicality of that as a solution. To prosecute a single pirate would require several hours of investigation by at least one detective, a search warrant to be issued by a judge, a raid to nab the computer on which the pirated software exists, an analyst to determine what exactly has been committed, several lawyers, 12 jurors and god knows what else.

Let's say we would need $200,000 per conviction per pirate(between man hours investigating, prosecuting and holding- that is WAY over what it would actually cost, just saying ). At $1Billion a year that would be enough to put 5,000 pirates behind bars- the software industry is losing more then that currently. Now, as mentioned previously, if you were to utilize the same resources to nab ID thieves, child porn/pedophiles and pirates you could reduce the cost to something far less then that. Start putting 5K-10K pirates in jail a year and I would wager heavily that you will start to see a steep decline in piracy.

Shoplifting, traffic violations and other petty crimes are different because the perpetrators are caught in the act, outside of their own home. You cant catch a pirate in the act and *prove a specific individual comitted the crime* without violating their rights by spying on their internet activity or raiding their home, going through a massive investigation and procedure that will probably cost thousands of dollars of the taxpayers money.

I understand what you are trying to say here but using traffic violations doesn't work the greatest. I have gotten traffic tickets while I was sitting at home- those little cameras they use in recent times aren't the most reliable things in the world . As far as how to enforce the laws we already have, the fact that we don't have any way of effectively dealing with it to me is an issue. Pedophiles/child pornographers to me are a FAR more serious issue to deal with(you want to see extreme, get me talking about what we should do to them) and yet we do not have an effective system in place to deal with them either. ID theft is also more serious then software pirates, again, we are lacking in effective means to deal with them too. To get back to traffic violations, how many billions of dollars a year are we currently spending to enforce traffic laws? I understand the potential for personal danger trumps that of material lost and easily, but the fact remains that is isn't realistic on a purely economical basis to devote nearly the resources we do to it, but on a societal one it needs to be done. Much the same with what we are talking about. Given it is one smaller part to a set of larger problems, but it is something that needs to be dealt with.

To my knowledge, the RIAA has not actually brought anyone to trial yet - because they know that they cant *prove* a specific individual committed a crime by just an IP address.

Two parts to this one, yes, the RIAA has indeed taken people to court in fact one of the cases pending is headline news at DT. Second point- those little cameras I mentioned earlier that auto hand out tickets- while I have managed to beat the one I have gotten because of minor legal detail(I drive a blue '06 Mustang, the car you have a picture of is a yellow 78 Camaro....) the fact remains that if I let anyone use my car and they did blow a red light I would be held liable on a legal basis and would have to pay the fine and have it on my record. They require not so much as a whiff of evidence that I did anything wrong at all. Is this fair? Not at all IMO, just bringing up the point that the law already is comfortable with convicting people based on what their 'hardware' is doing even if they aren't there

Its outrageous that theyre able to get away with that kind of extortion because they have more money and lawyers than any average joe, and the law entitles them to something insane like 200k per song. And yes, before you ask, this is more outrageous than what the pirates get away with IMO.

Agreed, and if it was handled by the criminal courts it wouldn't be allowed to continue as such.

Youre oversimplifying a very complicated problem..."just throw em in jail" isn't going to work when you actually think about what doing so would actually entail. In your fantasy world where such a thing can happen at a snap of a finger, you might be on to something, and your theoretical solution just might work. In the real world, you're out of your mind.

I know full well exactly what I am talking about entails. I think some people don't grasp that billions of dollars is a lot of money. That is the level of economic impact we are talking about. Spending $1Billion a year to convict pirates would still only entail a very small fraction of what we already collect from these companies for taxes. What right do we have to collect that money from them if we are not doing what it supposedly is used for? Upholding a civil state in which they can conduct business in proper accordance with the law? I would not dream of asking for a large portion of the general populace to fund this- I simply propose a fraction of the money the publishers themselves are paying be used to protect their interests in accordance with the already existing laws. Is that extreme?