Crytek says they will not longer be pc exclusive

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: Modelworks
While people do pirate on the console side, its much harder to do and involves modifying the hardware. Something lots of people will not do.

Hardly, Xbox 360 simply requires a firmware flash of the ROM drive. DS simply requires something you can buy on thousands of sites around the net such as the

Go to a store like best buy and ask people buying console games what firmware is ?
Now in the same store ask people buying pc games what a crack is .

Most consumers do not want to go to the steps of flashing firmware or doing modifications on the console.
The number of consoles sold versus the number that is modified is huge.

On the pc side of things there is no risk of harming the pc and its extremely easy.
Download a torrent, install, copy crack, play.

About 8 years ago I was one of the people involved in cracking firmware on the dreamcast.
I also did code for satellite receivers.
I do nothing in that area now.
Mainly because I saw that the work was only going to people who wanted something for free.
The group I participated in mainly did it to prove it could be done.
I even had paid satellite subscriptions when I was involved with it because getting it for free was wrong.

I think to reduce piracy on the pc a couple things need to happen.

Players need a demo for every title.
Don't expect people to shell out $50 for a game that may not run correctly on their system , where a demo could help them decide.

Developers need to commit to their customers.
The days of when a developer made a title with love and care and poured their heart into it are almost gone. There are still some of those developers around, but its tiny compared to what it was. When I as a customer have purchased a title, the developer needs to be their night and day to make sure any problems I have are resolved.
Not take the money and run.

Protection Schemes.
I know everyone hates them.
Most people are aware that they do not work in the long term.
They do prevent the casual copier , but not the more informed.
Using protection schemes like starforce only serves to agitate the legit buyers.
If I were selling a game now I would probably use something like what is used with Adobe products.
It gives a little bit of copy protection without hurting the legit users.

I think a good example of a product that is thriving , yet easily copied is music.
I know the RIAA will disagree, but I have yet to see a band go bankrupt.
People buy the music not because they can't get a copy any other way, but because they want to support something they like. Gaming can be the same way.


Compatibility
This is an area where demos can help out tons.
Software is the only thing you can buy at retail that if you get it home and it doesn't work , you cannot return it for a refund. The odds of having software problems is fairly high.
This is what worried me about Fallout3. Here we have a game on a massive scale that will have no demo.
If the player gets it home and it doesn't work, their only recourse is to hope the developer supports them. I predict it will be one of the most pirated games of the year.


I see the solution as not to make it harder to get a copy of the game and play it, but to make the user like the game so much they want to pay you as a thank you for giving them a great experience. The pirates will always be there and no protection will ever stop that.

 

[AstroManLuca]

The other thing about Bioshock is that, in addition to the DRM, it stayed expensive for quite some time. I think it's still $60 for the Xbox 360, though the PC version did drop to $30 (at least on Steam) some time ago.

Let me draw an analogy to movies. I'd argue that games with tons of replay value through multiplayer are sort of like those super-special-edition box set movies with hours and hours of special features and stuff. Meanwhile, SP-only games that provide you with one or maybe two playthroughs are like your typical plain DVD release that includes the movie and maybe a short making-of film. Those special collector's edition DVD sets usually cost a lot more.

What's hard about this is that Bioshock probably cost almost as much to make as COD4, if not more, since Infinity Ward had a lot of existing material to use as the basis for the game. Yet I've put in nearly 40 hours in COD4 with no signs of slowing down, but Bioshock has only seen a few hours of play and I'll probably never replay it. Should they really both be $50?

Hell, I'd have paid $100 for COD4. But it's hard for me to justify spending more than $20 on Bioshock since I'm not going to get much more out of it than I'd get from, say, a movie.

And that brings me to the worrying thought of pay-for-play online modes. The daunting thing about that is that, unlike Xbox Live, there is no central authority to oversee the PC multiplayer community. I'd be afraid of having to spend an Xbox Live-like fee for each different game publisher.

EDIT: As for the demo thing, you can't return a movie you buy if you simply don't like it. No one's forcing developers to provide a demo, but there needs to be some recourse. With movies, you can rent for a fraction of the price of buying new. Can't you do the same with PC games, using Gamefly? It just seems unfair that the ONLY way to even see if a game is any good, if there's no demo, is to buy it for full price. I hardly ever buy movies since I usually only watch them once, and the same applies to single-player games.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: AMDZen
Even Steam had some kind of a pirated unofficial thing where you can play TF2, CSS and all of the multiplayer games on unofficial servers. Don't know what its called.

To play pirated games like TF2 or BF1942 online, you need to play on a server that is not connected to the authentication server, usually done by starting a LAN game. LAN games allow people with the same CD key to play against each other; the only downside is that your server is not shown in the world server list, and you need to manually type in the IP of the server you want. I used to do this so me and my friend could play together in my house, against my other friend and his brother in their house; 4 people using 2 CD keys.

I also had a non-authenticating Neverwinter Nights server so I could play coop with my brother. There's no way in hell we were going to pay $200 for 1 friggin game (it had 2 expansion packs).

 

[Maleficus]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Maleficus

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Maleficus

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: Maleficus
Developers blaming piracy makes me see red, I'm so sick of 'piracy' being the scapegoat for shitty devs.

And I'm so sick of you discounting it and instead blaming it on the product being shitty. But of course you think everything is shitty, which justifies your position that pirating is acceptable. Big surprise. :roll:

Sorry, I only buy games that don't suck. I'll try to lower my standards so i can be happy with every piece of shit game that comes out like you.

Yup, but you'll gladly pirate and play through them to make sure they suck right? As for standards, lmao, is that like those Honor Among Thieves stickers you randomly see on dumpsters? Whatever makes you feel better about stealing buddy.

keep talking out of your ass, it almost makes you look smarter.

Yes, like your comments about Titans Quest being a shitty title in a weak attempt to discredit their claim that piracy was a major factor in closing down. That kinda talkin out of your ass? You've already stated numerous times you have no problems pirating games just to make sure they suck so you don't have to buy them, so what games have you purchased in the last year (or decade)?

I haven't bought a game in the last year, I received Hellgate London as a gift from a friend, which completely blew.

as for games in the last decade:
Half-Life
Unreal Tournament
Warcraft III
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Half-Life Opposing Force
Baldurs Gate II
Unreal Tournament 2004
Diablo II

There is probably more but that's all I can think of.

Titan Quest completely and totally sucked, was riddled with problems at release, and Iron Lore is full of shit.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Maleficus
I haven't bought a game in the last year, I received Hellgate London as a gift from a friend, which completely blew.

lol, no surprise really. You don't buy games, you pirate them. But like I said, whatever makes you feel better about stealing.

as for games in the last decade:
Half-Life
Unreal Tournament
Warcraft III
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Half-Life Opposing Force
Baldurs Gate II
Unreal Tournament 2004
Diablo II

There is probably more but that's all I can think of.

I see a pattern there with the exception of BG2. They require online registration or a valid cd-key for online play. Shocker!

Titan Quest completely and totally sucked, was riddled with problems at release, and Iron Lore is full of shit.

Lmao, I think many would disagree with you even on these forums, but you seem very sure of yourself for someone who never bought the game, or even played it. Would it surprise me if you were the one complaining on Iron Lore's forums about your hacked/pirated copy of the game crashing? Not at all. :laugh:

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: AMDZen
Where exactly do you get this data from that says they have low piracy rates? There are unofficial servers for WoW that have thousands of players on them.

Stats are misleading. Nobody can say piracy rates are low for this game, or high for this game. All of those numbers are made up BS.

Here are the illegal TF2 servers:
link removed
number of players: about 400 at the time of this post
There are over 10,000 legal TF2 players online right now. Piracy rate is less than 5%.

The most populated illegal WoW server removed has 1300 players online (equivalent to the average legal realm for this time of day): link removed
Legal World of Warcraft has over 10 million active subscriptions. drop --> bucket.

Please do not post links to pirate sites, illegal servers, ect. as the information contained there in, might be considered as a "how to" on piracy, which isn't allowed here.

Just keep the discussion generalized, and leave the specifics out, thanks for understanding- Anandtech Moderator DAPUNISHER

 

[novasatori]

they should do digital distribution at like $10 a copy for a copy protection free game

Maybe I would buy Crysis then, but my pc can hardly run it and I'll be damned if I was going to waste an xmas present on that game.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: novasatori
they should do digital distribution at like $10 a copy for a copy protection free game

Maybe I would buy Crysis then, but my pc can hardly run it and I'll be damned if I was going to waste an xmas present on that game.

Do you mean $10 extra or just $10 period?

If the former, why charge extra? No copy protection? Steam works pretty well and they don't charge more than anywhere else (at least not at launch).

If the latter, how do you expect developers to turn a profit? These games take a LOT of money to make.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Go to a store like best buy and ask people buying console games what firmware is ?
Now in the same store ask people buying pc games what a crack is .

Most consumers do not want to go to the steps of flashing firmware or doing modifications on the console.
The number of consoles sold versus the number that is modified is huge.

Although you may feel like your arguments are valid, (and they are) they are only such because PC gaming is the best. If all of the best games move to consoles, all of the people (pirates) that are now cracking PC games will move over the console arena. All of those minds, a lot of very smart people, will be spending their time cracking and developing ways to crack console games.

Besides, more and more people are learning what firmware is. A lot of people have to flash DVD drives / Blu-ray players / HD-DVD drives to play new movies so consumers are learning.

I'm sorry but piracy is here to stay, people and companies should be thinking of ways to make more people want to buy their games and spend less money on ways to stop them from pirating.

Or they can continue to bitch, I could care less really. Its worked really well for the RIAA.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Originally posted by: AMDZen
Where exactly do you get this data from that says they have low piracy rates? There are unofficial servers for WoW that have thousands of players on them.

Stats are misleading. Nobody can say piracy rates are low for this game, or high for this game. All of those numbers are made up BS.

Here are the illegal TF2 servers:
link removed
number of players: about 400 at the time of this post
There are over 10,000 legal TF2 players online right now. Piracy rate is less than 5%.

The most populated illegal WoW server removed has 1300 players online (equivalent to the average legal realm for this time of day):
link removed
Legal World of Warcraft has over 10 million active subscriptions. drop --> bucket.

Ummm. That is one server and right now as I post this they have 12,116 active users on just right now. Also if you look at the link removed you will see that the server has 218,801 users just 12,116 of them are currently playing on it. And thats only one server, and its not the largest just has the most users playing right now. The #2 server has 346,266 users and 11,899 playing right now. The top 9 servers all have WAY over 100,000 users each. If you add them up you get close to 3 million for the top 10. Compared to the 10 million subscribers of official servers, that is more then a quarter, but believe what you want.

Please do not link to that kind of information, it might be considered a "how to" on piracy, which isn't allowed here. If someone wants to find out about illegal servers and such, let them use their favorite search engine, but do not help them by providing the information. Thanks for understanding- Anandtech Moderator DAPUNISHER

 

[BenSkywalker]

Although you may feel like your arguments are valid, (and they are) they are only such because PC gaming is the best.

The best for what? FPS/RTS/MMOs? In terms of any game publisher, consoles clearly dominate the FPS part of that equation already(look simply at dollars generated, take CoD4 as an example).

Seriously, they need to put pirates in jail. Start locking them up for a year for everyone who has pirated more then $1K worth of games(in line with other criminals) and keep doing it. They are thieves and crooks and should be treated as such. Put about 10K pirates in jail for a year and you may see a sharp decline in piracy. For the record- yes, I paid for every single one of my games and(shocker) all of my music too. If you can't afford to do that, get a second job- I don't feel like supporting your pathetic self anymore. I think law suits are silly on this front, put these people where they belong.

As far as devs making more money on consoles then PCs- each game sold on a console pays a royalty to the console maker. In past generations this was around $10 per unit for a full price retail game, it is likely more like $15 at this point. A lot of devs used to like sticking with the PC because it allowed them to keep more of the money then they would be able to on the consoles, but due to petty thieves in large masses that doesn't end up being quite accurate anymore.

 

[Maleficus]

Console games are cracked and released every bit as quickly, perhaps even more so, than PC games. Just wanted to point that out.

 

[mindcycle]

Gonna throw my 2cents in here.

I'm a big fan of single player RPG games, along the lines of the elder scrolls, gothic, two worlds, but I also enjoy some of the clickfest action RPG's like diablo, sacred, titan quest, etc.. When I buy a good RPG I know i'm going to get value out of it. Most of the good ones last for 30+ hours. I have no problem spending $50 bucks on these types of games. The ultimate slap in the face for me was Oblivion. I enjoyed morrowind so much that I pre-ordered the collector's edition of Oblivion. Man was I disappointed with that shitty game. Everything levels up with you, most loot is random, every dungeon looked the same, etc, etc.. It wasn't even in the same realm as morrowind.

Morrowind showed me how awesome and unique an RPG game could be, then it seems Bethesda got greedy and pumped out a subpar "adventure" game called Oblivion. Now I fear that lots of RPG developers are looking at the awesome sales that Oblivion had and are following suit. So what am I stuck with? Shitty RPG, oh wait, shitty RPG/adventure games that aren't fun at all. It's the main reason I haven't been buying many games recently.

So what's my point? Well, the point is, that as game designers start developing their games cross-platform or "consolize" their games, it seems the worse they become. I see this with FPS's to, like Rainbow 6 Vegas 2 and the spawning enemies, or UT3 and the shitty game menu. Hell, I just bought assasins's creed and it takes an hour just to exit the damn game (like it would have taken loads of extra work to program that simple feature).. So PC games lose features and gameplay elements that us PC gamers are used to and then sales go down... Seems pretty obvious to me. I would have much rather pirated Oblivion, realized it was junk, and gone on with my life. Instead I felt obligated to play thought the damn thing because I spend $60 on it or whatever it was..

I really loved Brad Wardell's (the Sins of a Solar Empire dude) response to the pirated games scapegoat, for those of you who read it. He basically said how they didn't put copy protection on their game because they knew they had made a great game that people would gladly pay for. I feel the same way. http://forums.sinsofasolarempi...ost.aspx?postid=303512

If it's a good game, people will pay for it. If it's not, they'll pirate it, play for 30 mins, then uninstall. Those people will then be more likely to pirate games from then on. What developers need to do is stop looking at console sales and just make good games.

 

[novasatori]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: novasatori
they should do digital distribution at like $10 a copy for a copy protection free game

Maybe I would buy Crysis then, but my pc can hardly run it and I'll be damned if I was going to waste an xmas present on that game.

Do you mean $10 extra or just $10 period?

If the former, why charge extra? No copy protection? Steam works pretty well and they don't charge more than anywhere else (at least not at launch).

If the latter, how do you expect developers to turn a profit? These games take a LOT of money to make.

they make about 10bux a game or less anyways after you factor in licensing, shipping, packaging etc etc

way more people would buy games at 10$ - there are a ton of games I never buy cause I don't want to pay $50, if they all came out at like $10-20 I would have bought them, and by the time those games that were $50 and in the bargain bin, I usually forget.

 

[Zenoth]

I can't say that I never pirated a game, that'd be blatantly lying. I can say however that I bought about 95% (yes I did count and I came up with this number) of the games I pirated. Why? Because those games had no demo. The other 5% had a demo, but it didn't give enough ideas of how the game can be, so I pirated them anyway and it turned out I didn't liked them (without finished them) and I never bought them, saving me money in the process. If I'd have bought those games (the 5% or so), then I would have returned them all. Call this being narrow minded, but I know I won't put my money into something I didn't try first. When I go at a clothing store, I try the shoes, the jackets, the t-shirts, I try everything first. When I want to buy a digital camera there's a demonstration of it attached to a shelf in the store, if there's none I quit the place and go elsewhere. When I buy a movie it's because I saw it first by renting it or going to the theaters.

Crysis for example had demo for it, and it was long, it was the entire first level, now THAT is what I call a good demo. Some people think that renting a PC game is feasible, well yes it is technically, but who's not going to make an illegal copy of the original disc when at home? PC gaming cannot profitably be rented, either you try a demo or you buy it used/brand new, and pricing PC games at $40, $50 and $60 won't stop the poor (or even the rich) from pirating. Release more demos, reduce the retail prices by $5 to $10 and it will certainly help. However it won't stop piracy, since piracy in itself is an industry, a dark one, but it is one. Some people make competitions to know which pirate "groups" will pirate this or that game first and release a functioning pirated copy.

In some countries there are independent stores selling pirated games on their shelves (some of them secretly), and no it's not just in China or Russia, it's in many countries you wouldn't suspect at first glance, I myself am corresponding with friends in France, and in some "non-registered" shops (I.E the region doesn't officially know about its untold merchandise) they do it, some others will go as far as doing it publicly on their shelves, but because they're so well pirated you cannot visually make a difference between a brand new copy and a pirated one, and usually the seller is the one who is himself pirating them (or as a group). Some of those shops sell different stuff such as food or clothes or anything that has absolutely nothing to do with video games, but if you go and tell the seller "hey, I'm here for a game", he'll understand what you mean.

Am I defending piracy? No. However I am defending the fact that all I want to do before buying a game is to try it first. Release me a demo of each PC games that I am interested in and I'll be willing to uninstall uTorrent from my HDD without a second thought. What I myself do not like are the pirates who pirated each and every single games they have (not "own") in their possession without ever considering even one time to buy it to thank the developers for the game they're enjoying (or not enjoying).

Open admissions of piracy aren't permitted here. Please refrain from doing so, or it will result in your posting privileges being suspended.-Anandtech Moderator DAPUNISHER

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: gorcorps
The best way to make a game 'harder' to pirate is make the multiplayer something worth buying.

I never play mutliplayer, this isn't a factor to me when I chose games.

Originally posted by: ShawnD1

Doom 3, Quake 4, and Bioshock were hit really hard with piracy for this reason. Did anyone actually buy Doom 3?

Alternatively, single player games can be sold in huge bundles to encourage people to buy.

I bought Doom3. Also the expansion, Quake4 and Bioshock(on Steam). Man do I miss the days when EVERY videocard game with a free game, or a set of game demos!

 

[pontifex]

bahahahahaha! piracy. crysis was a pile of shit. maybe make an original game and people would buy it.

 

[TehMac]

Crytek made an overhyped game, and like EPIC they're realizing that PC gamers are not tools for advertisement and hype like their console counterparts.

 

[BFG10K]

It should be worth noting that Crysis shipped over a million copies so it wasn't exactly a slouch in the PC department. For a PC exclusive with extreme requirements that is actually a damned good figure IMO.

I don't care what Crytek do on consoles as long as it doesn't affect the quality of their PC games.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Yeah, you put together a game is shiny graphics with uninspiring gameplay with insane system requirements and expecting it to sell. Even without factoring piracy in, these guys are complete tools.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: novasatori
way more people would buy games at 10$ - there are a ton of games I never buy cause I don't want to pay $50, if they all came out at like $10-20 I would have bought them, and by the time those games that were $50 and in the bargain bin, I usually forget.

I only bought Quake 4 because it was $15 in the bargain bin. Jus' sayin'

 

[lupi]

To place blanket blame on piracy is idiotic and intellectually untruthful as even explained by some devs that are going so far as removing CD checks on their games. The majority of the piracy occurence still centers around eastern europe and asia, places that ifpiracy was totally eliminated would see minimal sales growth as those doing it either could not afford the full retail price or pirate to make illegal copies to sell on the second hand market.

In the US the next gen consoles are selling about a million a mont, toss in the old ps and ds and you are at between 1.5 and 2 million. How many pcs are sold per month for computer game use. Instead of bitching and brining up the bullshit falacy of iracy, just admit it's easier to develope for console (which is nothing more than a scaled down pc with limited user input capability and a locked hardware suite of 2-5+ years old) and even if you toss up some craptastic shovelware you will probably make money.

 

[ShawnD1]

Originally posted by: lupi
even if you toss up some craptastic shovelware you will probably make money.

lol that accurately describes at least half of console games.

What companies need to realize is that PC games have much longer cycles than console games. You can expect Halo 3 to immediately die when Halo 4 comes out on Xbox 360, but it doesn't work that way with computer games.
Computer games get better with age, so the newer version needs to be a hell of a lot better before anybody switches to the new version. A good example of this is Quake 1 and Quake 2. Quake 1 was revolutionary, and it caught on fast. People modded the hell out of it. Quake 1 has literally hundreds of custom maps, and severs for Quake 1 were so different that you could join 5 servers and have 5 completely different experiences. One is running Quake coop, one is Team Fortress, one is Rocket Arena, one is a racecar game, and one lets you create your own character (Prozac mod for TF). I started playing Quake 1 online in about 2001, and at the time it was actually more popular than Quake 2 by a huge margin. So many custom mods and maps were out for Quake 1 that there was basically no reason to get Quake 2. While Quake 2 was the most popular online game in 1998, it quickly fell off because it simply didn't have the mod support to back it up.

The same exact thing happened to Half-Life 1 and 2. While Half-Life 2 is very popular and everyone owns a copy, Half-Life 1 and its mods still trump Source by about 10:1. There are 10x as many servers and players for original Counter-Strike as there are for Counter-Strike Source. We're talking about a game that is literally 10 years old, and it's still insanely popular. Excluding MMORPGs, Half-Life 1 from 1998 is the #1 most popular online game.

Companies that release a game every 1-2 years then bitch about poor sales simply haven't done their homework.

edit: It's worth noting that Valve and Blizzard really nailed the ideal model of how to release PC games. If you bought HL2 when it first came out, you probably paid $50 at that time. If you buy Orange Box, which includes HL2 as well as the expansions, you still pay only $50 and are still able to play online with people who do not have the expansions. When something like Episode 3 comes out, you can either buy that for a low price like $20, or someone who does not have HL2 can buy the bundle they sell at that time for $50, and it will still be able to play online with the people who only have HL2.
Blizzard has a similar thing with its expansion packs. Warcraft 2 came out, then an expansion came out, then Battle Chest came out at the same price and included both. They did that with Starcraft as well. Now they sell World of Warcraft and its expansion as a single box for $50. Rather than releasing the same game several times and completely breaking compatibility with past versions, they release bundles that include the past version and remain compatible for online play.

 

[derdrache]

Even though I "obtained Crysis through nefarious means" However, I have not played past the demo portion (first level/mission part) of the game because that is about as much as I can stomach. I am a college kid but I actually work so I have plenty of spending money. I just bought GTA4 on release day and think $60+ is a lot for most of my peers. I liked the demo of Crysis, even the first level and a half of the game was ok, but not enough for me to want to play again or further and definitely no worth my $50. It just didnt capture me like a game should and I think they focused too much on visuals. I could run it like butter on high for about 90% of gameplay, just choked during large battles or with many npcs.

Anyway, point is, even though I didn't pay a dime for it, even though I would have gladly bought it if I had liked it, I still didn't play it for more than 45 minutes. It was "free" and I wont play it, if weren't for nefarious means I may have wasted that $50 and could have domino effected my budget so I couldnt get GTA4. Then rockstar would be saying how pira... nope cant finish that sentence without laughing.. Sorry cryteck, better luck next time.

(For those wondering, yes I just recently got to play Crysis since I just recently got a new system plus 8800GT to help.)

Open admissions of piracy aren't permitted here. Please refrain from doing so, or it will result in your posting privileges being suspended.-Anandtech Moderator DAPUNISHER

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Seriously, they need to put pirates in jail. Start locking them up for a year for everyone who has pirated more then $1K worth of games(in line with other criminals) and keep doing it. They are thieves and crooks and should be treated as such. Put about 10K pirates in jail for a year and you may see a sharp decline in piracy. For the record- yes, I paid for every single one of my games and(shocker) all of my music too. If you can't afford to do that, get a second job- I don't feel like supporting your pathetic self anymore. I think law suits are silly on this front, put these people where they belong.

I'll just stop posting in this thread now. You are clearly out of your mind. Yea throw all pirates in jail, as if our prisons aren't overloaded enough. Nominee for most rediculous post I've read YTD.