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Covidiots thread

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sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
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Alabama lawmakers want to use pandemic relief funds to build prisons. Is this where they'll house all the unvaccinated?
Think about it.... If Trump along with his republican congress had allocated federal money to the states for what Trump thought was important to fight covid and then those democrat controlled state governors took that money and used it for something other that was intended, well... Trump would be fuming. Republicans in congress would be fuming. And you can be damn sure that Trump along with his republican congress would devise a way forcing those democrat governors to use that allotted money for what it was intended, to fight covid and to help the citizens.

Our republican governor took that Biden money, refused to help the unemployed and those facing home eviction, and instead she used that covid relief money to update state computer systems. She got caught, and was forced to refund that money back to what it was it was intended for... covid relief. So what is happening in Alabama is not unique. Many republican governors along with republican state legislators are trying to pull this same crap. What irritates me is that Joe Biden won't do anything about this. Biden could do something to stop this, and Donald Trump definitely would. Trump would probably sue those democrat states/governors and then block all federal funding to that state as punishment.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
23,239
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Man, this thread no longer provides the dose of schadenfreude it once did. When will it be enough for the unvaxxed to get a clue?

This past week I’m hearing more and more about vaccinated people succumbing to the virus and dying—including a popular fantasy football podcaster I listened to. Then I see stories like this too—these young ones who think they’re invincible are likely the reason why we still have so much spread.

 
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VRAMdemon

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Aug 16, 2012
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Well, I mean, he’s not exactly wrong. The practice of Christianity in the US has almost entirely abandoned the teachings of Jesus, and has replaced them with a weird cult of personality death cult centered around an obsession with how best (worst) to respond to CoV-19. Horse dewormer, bleach, UV light, fish tank algacide, nebulized H2O2. The list goes on. “We can’t trust those scientists! They keep changing their minds!”
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
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Man, this thread no longer provides the dose of schadenfreude it once did. When will it be enough for the unvaxxed to get a clue?

This past week I’m hearing more and more about vaccinated people succumbing to the virus and dying—including a popular fantasy football podcaster I listened to.
I've noticed that as well. Like this story from Michigan where a fully vaxxed couple (with undisclosed underlying conditions) died within a minute of each other. - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-vaccine-couple-death-b1928404.html

Get vaccinated but, vaccinated or not, be careful, wear a mask and avoid close contact whenever possible. Don't even start to think you're safe because you're vaccinated and only around vaccinated people. Vaccinated people are getting infected and spreading it too.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Oct 8, 2000
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I've noticed that as well. Like this story from Michigan where a fully vaxxed couple (with undisclosed underlying conditions) died within a minute of each other. - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-vaccine-couple-death-b1928404.html

Get vaccinated but, vaccinated or not, be careful, wear a mask and avoid close contact whenever possible. Don't even start to think you're safe because you're vaccinated and only around vaccinated people. Vaccinated people are getting infected and spreading it too.
See, this is disinformation (bolded) you are posting. You are safe if you are vaccinated compared to being unvaccinated. The risk of infection is always there, but its rare.
Go post your bullshit somewhere else.

Read this post I made a few days back.

You want some schadenfreude?
Here you go and there's more where that came from.

Tons and tons of anti-vaxxer obituaries.
Read them and see how many were unvaccinated nurses.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
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See, this is disinformation (bolded) you are posting. You are safe if you are vaccinated compared to being unvaccinated. The risk of infection is always there, but its rare.
Go post your bullshit somewhere else.

Read this post I made a few days back.

You want some schadenfreude?
Here you go and there's more where that came from.

Tons and tons of anti-vaxxer obituaries.
Read them and see how many were unvaccinated nurses.
The most important part of my post, also bolded. - Get vaccinated but, vaccinated or not, be careful, wear a mask and avoid close contact whenever possible. Don't even start to think you're safe because you're vaccinated and only around vaccinated people. Vaccinated people are getting infected and spreading it too.

Just read about almost 4,500 breakthrough cases and 37 deaths in Massachusetts among fully vaxxed people in the past week. I'm willing to bet most of them thought they were safe too. The disinformation bullshit I'm smelling isn't coming from my post. Letting your guard down because you've got the vaccine is just plain stupid.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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The most important part of my post, also bolded. - Get vaccinated but, vaccinated or not, be careful, wear a mask and avoid close contact whenever possible. Don't even start to think you're safe because you're vaccinated and only around vaccinated people. Vaccinated people are getting infected and spreading it too.

Just read about almost 4,500 breakthrough cases and 37 deaths in Massachusetts among fully vaxxed people in the past week. I'm willing to bet most of them thought they were safe too. The disinformation bullshit I'm smelling isn't coming from my post. Letting your guard down because you've got the vaccine is just plain stupid.
Yeah it's coming from you. You post without context.
That 4500 looks big until you see the rest of the numbers. You cherry pick data and conveniently left out a link.


The sentence under the headline says a much.
"Those breakthrough COVID infection figures make up a tiny percentage of the total number of all people who have been vaccinated "

The numbers show very low risk.
"Both figures remain a tiny percentage of the total number of all people who have been vaccinated -- just 0.03% of vaccinated people have been hospitalized, and 0.8% have confirmed infections. An even smaller percentage has died: 0.006%. The report also doesn't indicate how many of the breakthrough cases are in people with underlying conditions, though it also notes that "may be undercounted due to discrepancies" in records. "


"Don't even start to think you're safe because you're vaccinated and only around vaccinated people. Vaccinated people are getting infected and spreading it too. "

See, that's just making up a statement without anything to back it up. Put up numbers/links/data or GTFO.
I am not saying that a vaccinated person can't infect someone else but this is an unvaccinated surge.
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
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See, this is disinformation (bolded) you are posting. You are safe if you are vaccinated compared to being unvaccinated. The risk of infection is always there, but its rare.
Go post your bullshit somewhere else.
That also is disinformation. You may be "safer", but certainly not "safe"

The fact that fully vaccinated people have died of COVID is the proof. The fact that fully vaccinated people have become terribly ill from COVID makes it clear the correct word is "safer", not safe.

Over 1500 fully vaccinated in the US were not "safe"

We assume that seatbelts and airbags in our cars make us safe. But reckless behavior on the wheel can kill you even with these "safety" measures. Same with the reckless behavior regarding COVID. So in addition to wearing my seatbelt or a mask, I know that my behavior is an important part of the formula to keep me "safer".
 
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esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
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Yep, that's a typo. Yes you are safer.
I've acknowledged vaccinated people can get covid-19.
Breakthrough cases are still rare.
Breakthrough hospitalizations are more rare.
Breakthrough death even more rare.

Here's an article from Craig Spencer, ER doc

Exceeded my 'free article limit'. Annoying, as I've heard so many contradictory claims about this.

As I understand it, the vaccinated have just as much viral load (in their noses in particular) as the unvaccinated, but they will be in that position for a shorter length of time. So during that time they can spread the virus as easily as the unvaccinated, but that doesn't continue for as long. Is that the consensus view now? Not sure what that means quantitatively, though.
 

NWRMidnight

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2001
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Exceeded my 'free article limit'. Annoying, as I've heard so many contradictory claims about this.

As I understand it, the vaccinated have just as much viral load (in their noses in particular) as the unvaccinated, but they will be in that position for a shorter length of time. So during that time they can spread the virus as easily as the unvaccinated, but that doesn't continue for as long. Is that the consensus view now? Not sure what that means quantitatively, though.
(This is not directed at you pmv) People need to go educate themselves about all aspects of viral load, not just the contagious side of it. As an example, it usually takes a much, much higher infectious viral load to infect a vaccinated person than it does to infect a unvaccinated person, yet the contagious part of the viral load equation is similar. My point is there is much more to the viral load equation than just the contagious side of it. Also, the viral load numbers for vaccinated people are coming from the breakthrough cases, and are showing symptoms, testing positive. so it is no surprise that they would show similar viral load. Just as the viral load numbers for the unvaccinates are from those that have symptoms and test positive. Where are the majority of cases coming from? Not the vaccinated.
 
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RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
819
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Yeah it's coming from you. You post without context.
That 4500 looks big until you see the rest of the numbers. You cherry pick data and conveniently left out a link.


The sentence under the headline says a much.
"Those breakthrough COVID infection figures make up a tiny percentage of the total number of all people who have been vaccinated "

The numbers show very low risk.
"Both figures remain a tiny percentage of the total number of all people who have been vaccinated -- just 0.03% of vaccinated people have been hospitalized, and 0.8% have confirmed infections. An even smaller percentage has died: 0.006%. The report also doesn't indicate how many of the breakthrough cases are in people with underlying conditions, though it also notes that "may be undercounted due to discrepancies" in records. "


"Don't even start to think you're safe because you're vaccinated and only around vaccinated people. Vaccinated people are getting infected and spreading it too. "

See, that's just making up a statement without anything to back it up. Put up numbers/links/data or GTFO.
I am not saying that a vaccinated person can't infect someone else but this is an unvaccinated surge.
I never even insinuated that this wasn't an unvaccinated surge. Just pointing out the fact that breakthrough cases and deaths are rising and it's not the time to let our guard down. Your "tiny percentage of deaths" argument is the same one the antivaxxer's use. It may be true but that tiny percentage means more when it's someone you care about. Even so, I'm happy to admit you're right. You, of all people, should feel perfectly safe to gather maskless, in large groups with confidence that your vaccination will protect you.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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Here in Oregon our breakthrough cases are representing over 20% of all cases now.

During the week of September 12–September 18, there were 11,994 cases of COVID-19. 9,216 (76.8%) were unvaccinated and 2,778 (23.2%) were vaccine breakthrough cases. The median age of breakthrough cases was 49 years. 84 (3%) breakthrough cases were residents of care facilities, senior living communities or other congregate living settings. 700 (25.2%) cases were 65 or older. There were 68 (2.4%) cases aged 12-17.


Hospitalization rate remains low though. It's basically age driven. Which is a double whammy...1) elderly were some of the first to get the shot so efficacy of the original shots are waning. 2) Elderly have reduced antibody responses in general and are more vulnerable.

1632928502292.png
 
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Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
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Exceeded my 'free article limit'. Annoying, as I've heard so many contradictory claims about this.

As I understand it, the vaccinated have just as much viral load (in their noses in particular) as the unvaccinated, but they will be in that position for a shorter length of time. So during that time they can spread the virus as easily as the unvaccinated, but that doesn't continue for as long. Is that the consensus view now? Not sure what that means quantitatively, though.
@NWRMidnight 's post is really good.

One item I would add regarding viral load, is that the sampling technique of the PCR tests should be considered.

It's typically a nasal swab, and this is where the "high viral loads" is being observed in infected, fully vaccinated individuals.

It's important to consider that this is not necessarily reflective of a systematic (whole body, or even lung) infection like you would in an unvaccinated person. This is where the virus first enters the body and is already being fought by the prepared immune system.

The last science I was reading was that the correlation between PCR determined viral load and infectiousness was still not well understood, particularly as we add in vaccinations.

It's a bit academic, but it's even more weight to say that even if viral load may be "high" in a fully vaccinated person, it's still not indicative that fully vaccinated are as potentially infectious as an unvax individual.
 

NWRMidnight

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2001
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Here in Oregon our breakthrough cases are representing over 20% of all cases now.

During the week of September 12–September 18, there were 11,994 cases of COVID-19. 9,216 (76.8%) were unvaccinated and 2,778 (23.2%) were vaccine breakthrough cases. The median age of breakthrough cases was 49 years. 84 (3%) breakthrough cases were residents of care facilities, senior living communities or other congregate living settings. 700 (25.2%) cases were 65 or older. There were 68 (2.4%) cases aged 12-17.


Hospitalization rate remains low though. It's basically age driven. Which is a double whammy...1) elderly were some of the first to get the shot so efficacy of the original shots are waning. 2) Elderly have reduced antibody responses in general and are more vulnerable.

View attachment 50823
60.6% of Oregon's population is vaccinated. As more people get vaccinated, break through cases percentage will increase among new cases, as they represent more of the population as the unvaccinated decrease. That's how it works. Keep in mind, currently, in Oregon 40% of the population are where 76% of the new cases are coming from vs the 20% that is coming from 60% of the population.
 

Justinus

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2005
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60.6% of Oregon's population is vaccinated. As more people get vaccinated, break through cases percentage will increase among new cases, as they represent more of the population as the unvaccinated decrease. That's how it works. Keep in mind, currently, in Oregon 40% of the population are where 76% of the new cases are coming from vs the 20% that is coming from 60% of the population.
Yes and that means instead of being 3.3x more likely, unvaccinated people are 5x more likely to be infected with symptoms. Still not an excellent number, but significantly different than the breakthrough case numbers alone suggest.

I notice the paper says unvaccinated people are 4x more likely to be infected, but doesn't clarify how they determined that number.

I am not a fan of how Lane county infection rate is 80% higher than Multnomah county, especially given how Lane county is not incredibly congested like Multnomah. Population density is literally 22x higher in Multnomah county.

The demographic is extremely mixed here, instead of trending very blue like Multnomah, however.
 
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vi edit

Elite Member
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Oct 28, 1999
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60.6% of Oregon's population is vaccinated. As more people get vaccinated, break through cases percentage will increase among new cases, as they represent more of the population as the unvaccinated decrease. That's how it works. Keep in mind, currently, in Oregon 40% of the population are where 76% of the new cases are coming from vs the 20% that is coming from 60% of the population.
We've pretty much flat lined in vaccinations. It's not moved much since July. Most of the increase over the summer was the 12-18 getting approval and getting vaccinated.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
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Feed store in Las Vegas demands proof of horse.



It should be very easy to find a field with horses and lure them to the fence with treats, then take selfies of you and “your horse”. Or enterprising horse owners could charge $10 to take a photo of you and their horse that you could show proof of ownership with at the store. Although ... Now that I think about it - If they’re so desperate for off-the-shelf horse medicine that they’ll fake owning a horse to get it, they’re desperate enough to pay way more than $10 for that picture.

If it were me that owned the horses - I would only use one horse for all the pictures, and choose the horse with the most distinctive features, with the expectation that the guy at the store will likely clue in that all these idiots “own” the same horse.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
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word has it that the right's favorite cartoonist went and got himself some covid, of course he's at home self medicating

Soooo ... This particular MAGA political cartoonist says he has covid, and is treating it with ivermectin, vitamins, zinc, and beet juitce.

Remind me again how the these covidiots are spinning these non-vaccinated, un-hospitalized and home treatment Covid deaths? Fake news? Crisis actors? Extra-terrestrial intervention? Spiritual sublimation?

In my neck of the woods at least, the families of the dead person immediately set up go-fund me sites to grift off the brainwashed and the gullible.
 
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manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
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Yep, that's a typo. Yes you are safer.
I've acknowledged vaccinated people can get covid-19.
Breakthrough cases are still rare.
Breakthrough hospitalizations are more rare.
Breakthrough death even more rare.

Here's an article from Craig Spencer, ER doc
I don't even consider it a typo. You clearly meant probabilistically safe against getting severe COVID, which is true. You never meant to imply absolutely safe against transmission/infection. You should stop saying breakthrough cases are rare though, as that's not true.

The COVID vaccines don't prevent transmission of delta; but they continue to offer robust protection against bad outcomes as they were tested to do. Sadly we need both a high vaccination rate and still universal masking, and we're falling well short in both categories. Even Massachusetts which is relatively highly vaccinated isn't masking up much anymore.


But officials are optimistic their case rates will not dramatically shoot up a la winter 2020. I like Michael Osterholm's quote though; the COVID-19 pandemic has surprised many times with twists and turns and it's hard AF to predict trends several months out. My opinion is that anyone who thinks delta peters out over the next month and doesn't resurge will be disappointed. The U.S. simply has too many communities with low vax rates.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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Bolded is not true.
The vaccine does prevent a person from being infected. Yes, and if there is a breakthrough infection, the chances of
hospitalization are much lower than an unvaccinated person. Anywhere Ive read from10-30X less. There are breakthrough infections, but they are not the norm.
It is still uncommon in vaccinated people.

"Studies so far show that vaccinated people are 8 times less likely to be infected and 25 times less likely to experience hospitalization or death. Vaccines remain effective in protecting most people from COVID-19 infection and its complications. "
.

Read this from Dr Craig Spencer:
People may know him from from being interviewed on MSNBC

Data on percentage of breakthrough cases varies as not a lot data is on it and it has changed because of Delta variant.
Early on from the CDC on data collected from April -July was .01%. This was before Delta (link below)
More current data shows ranges from .72% in DC, 0.5% in Delaware and Pennsylvania Public health says 6% of cases are from vaccinated people.
That's quite a range but even if you took PA's worst cases data at 6%, its means that 16 of 17 vaccinated people are not getting infected with COVID-19.
With the others it shows less that 1:100 are getting breakthrough infections.
Here is my prediction.
The unvaccinated will soon claim the vaccinated are making them sick and vaccinated people should have special work spaces and shopping hours because the vaccinated get sick and leave their houses or even the vaccine makes the vaccinated get a new strain or something similarly crazy.
I am all but certain this will happen within the next few months.
 
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esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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I never even insinuated that this wasn't an unvaccinated surge. Just pointing out the fact that breakthrough cases and deaths are rising and it's not the time to let our guard down. Your "tiny percentage of deaths" argument is the same one the antivaxxer's use. It may be true but that tiny percentage means more when it's someone you care about. Even so, I'm happy to admit you're right. You, of all people, should feel perfectly safe to gather maskless, in large groups with confidence that your vaccination will protect you.
Dont put words in my mouth asshole. I have said nothing at all of what you wrote about going maskless in large groups. I have done nothing but provide links and data.
You? Nothing.
 

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