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Thats a weird name. BIG GUY. Is he 5 feet tall?
BIG GUY means a well-known or Vip person that knows a lot. You could call them 'BIG V' in my country. That's all. lol.
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Thats a weird name. BIG GUY. Is he 5 feet tall?
Whether this post came first or this linux patch -Hi. Some BIG GUY said AMD is preparing 12nm Polaris refresh NEXT MONTH. I decided not post new thread about this news because it's not confirmed by any other site just by a BIG GUY at that forum, means it might not 100% accurate. Stay tuned.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.chiphell.com/thread-1911969-1-1.html&edit-text=
AMD has cards that are competitive Up to GTX1080 territory, they are also not in a rush to launch anything new and spend resources they would other wise put for 7nm cards.
So both are sitting comfortable on their ass waiting to see how consumers will react to new high prices of the RTX cards , gathering data for the new 7nm cards that will follow the next 12-18 months.
A possible middle ground is to ignore the extreme top end and just concentrate on the low-end to high mid-range where most of the products are sold. Not the best, but certainly not the worst situation. They have done this and its profitable for them.
Ngg path was driver specific and ought to have worked without developer support.
Some of the same features as in maxwell btw.
So its not a small deal its not working. Look at the raw shader numbers to give you an idea of the potential.
Irrelevant to the topic at hand. Zen's success does not preclude AMD from continuing to serve the consumer dGPU market. At. All. They maintained an entirely separate RTG division under Raja Koduri while developing Zen in the first place. Continued work on Zen+ and Zen2 could have continued while RTG refined Vega and moved it to GF's 12nm process, which according to many is not much more than a refined 14nm process anyway . . .
Maybe AMD has been too busy WIPING THE FLOOR OF INTEL WITH RYZEN AND EPYC to bother with Nvidia.
Just my OPINION
I lay blame on the lack of cutting edge node availability for high performance processors
I'm sure that plays an important part in the grand scheme of things in the end. The market ignoring their products and using them for nothing more than pricing pressure in the past I'm sure played a larger role in the decision to sit it out. You guys are naive if you think AMD employees don't hang out on the web after hours viewing reviews, arguments, goal post moving, etc after they launch a product. I'd imagine they're somewhat tired of reading all the too little, too late, can barely match a XXXX and have somewhat decided is it even worth it to try. Put yourself in their shoes and look back at the launches and view the old threads and maybe you'll understand what I said....Not aimed at you tviceman but at all whom read.
It has everything to do with the topic at hand, unless taken out of context like you did. The point was as i'm sure you know, that Zen's success proves that it was the right choice to balance their R&D in the way that they did. If that meant taking some resources from the GPU side even if their consumer GPUs weren't at the top of the charts then that's what they had to do. Focusing on 7nm compute and building on their strengths where they are still ahead of the nvidia's latest cards in many cases seems like the more important task at hand. 7nm brings major improvements to PPP.
I am not taking anything out of context. I'm saying that you're wrong. AMD had the R&D resources to do 12nm Vega in addition to everything else they are doing right now with Rome and Matisse. Zen/Zen+/Zen2 poached resources from the old CMT teams, not from RTG. AMD was able to develop Zen and Polaris/Vega simultaneously, so how are they now somehow unable to port Vega over to 12nm and tweak it a bit while working on Zen+ and Zen2? Impossible, especially with the enhanced revenues starting in 2017. It is fallacious to assume that AMD is that strapped for resources.
AMD has simply pulled out of the consumer market. They know they can sell all their cutting-edge GPUs (Vega, Vega 20) on the pro market, so there's no reason for them to sell those products to consumers. I have long suspected that the Vega shortages had less to do with HBM availability and miners than it did the pro market. So I understand why the pro market is getting Vega 20 and we aren't, I get it. But the pro market would never have wanted 12nm Vega refresh, certainly not with 7nm Vega 20 on the horizon. GF has the 12nm capacity to help AMD produce some more GPUs aimed squarely at the consumer market. It was all a matter of whether AMD had the desire to serve the market. Expanding production brings with it risks, and AMD simply did not want to take those risks.
If the rumors are true, then AMD is going to throw us a bone in the form of 12nm Polaris. I can understand why they might rehash Polaris since there is no need for them to find a new source of HBM2 for those cards (12nm Vega would still require HBM2). For people in the midrange, that might be just what the doctor ordered until Navi10 comes out. But for those of us looking for an upgrade from AMD to replace our Vega FEs and RX Vega 64s, there is nothing.
It is fallacious to assume that AMD is that strapped for resources. I can understand why they might rehash Polaris since there is no need for them to find a new source of HBM2 for those cards
Interesting take on the situation at AMD. If true this might explain what we're seeing with RTX prices. I'm sure NV knows what AMD is up to and vice versa. I'm going to have to chew on this a bit.
Being strapped and making a profit are 2 different things.
I'm skeptical about the polaris on 12 nm rumor.Simply not worth it to do a shrink, RX 580 is running at the limit already, especially also memory bottleneck. Higher clocks wouldn't add much. It would need to be a completely new die. A bigger die and gddr6 would be needed. And now you are making essentially a new chip so why use old polaris uarch and not vega?
AMD also doesn't need anything new and better to invest money in zen 2.
Because in order for AMD to design and make Zen architecture they HAD to pull resources from a lot of RTG projects. Now its good time it will pay dividends both ways.Why is anyone assuming that AMD needs to/wants to move funding between RTG and the Zen design team?
I am not taking anything out of context. I'm saying that you're wrong. AMD had the R&D resources to do 12nm Vega in addition to everything else they are doing right now with Rome and Matisse. Zen/Zen+/Zen2 poached resources from the old CMT teams, not from RTG. AMD was able to develop Zen and Polaris/Vega simultaneously, so how are they now somehow unable to port Vega over to 12nm and tweak it a bit while working on Zen+ and Zen2? Impossible, especially with the enhanced revenues starting in 2017. It is fallacious to assume that AMD is that strapped for resources.
AMD has simply pulled out of the consumer market. They know they can sell all their cutting-edge GPUs (Vega, Vega 20) on the pro market, so there's no reason for them to sell those products to consumers. I have long suspected that the Vega shortages had less to do with HBM availability and miners than it did the pro market. So I understand why the pro market is getting Vega 20 and we aren't, I get it. But the pro market would never have wanted 12nm Vega refresh, certainly not with 7nm Vega 20 on the horizon. GF has the 12nm capacity to help AMD produce some more GPUs aimed squarely at the consumer market. It was all a matter of whether AMD had the desire to serve the market. Expanding production brings with it risks, and AMD simply did not want to take those risks.
If the rumors are true, then AMD is going to throw us a bone in the form of 12nm Polaris. I can understand why they might rehash Polaris since there is no need for them to find a new source of HBM2 for those cards (12nm Vega would still require HBM2). For people in the midrange, that might be just what the doctor ordered until Navi10 comes out. But for those of us looking for an upgrade from AMD to replace our Vega FEs and RX Vega 64s, there is nothing.
Being strapped and making a profit are 2 different things. I'm skeptical about the polaris on 12 nm rumor.Simply not worth it to do a shrink, RX 580 is running at the limit already, especially also memory bottleneck. Higher clocks wouldn't add much. It would need to be a completely new die. A bigger die and gddr6 would be needed. And now you are making essentially a new chip so why use old polaris uarch and not vega?
As you say. Vice-versa. If AMD new NV doesn't have a new mainstream product in the GTX 1060 / RX 580 bracket, AMD also doesn't need anything new and better to invest money in zen 2.
AMD will not bother with a Polaris rehash unless the new card can match a GTX 1070 at a much reduced price, at least -15% cheaper. Of course I don't have data, but if you look up a "Which GPU should I buy" forum, many clearly state that the person is not interested in AMD solutions. So to have a fighting chance, AMD needs to offer the same sort of performance but with a hefty price-cut.
On a different note, AMD failed to create a Tonga like performer. There's a relatively huge gap between the 1050Ti - 1060 and the the RX560 and 570/580. According to my benchmarks the RX560 would perform much better with more BW so GDDR6 could bring some easy gains to that chip. AMD should focus on mainstream and entry level as the high-end is pretty much lost, don't think that the current tech can scale-up well, just look at Fiji and Vega and how efficiency went out of the window with Polaris as well.
Why is anyone assuming that AMD needs to/wants to move funding between RTG and the Zen design team? Zen 2 development effort is already fully-funded. They're hitting their targets on Rome, and personally I expect to see Matisse in April-June (hopefully April). Adding more cash does nothing for them, why keep bringing it up?
I believe that it doesn't require much reworking to go from 14nm->12nm. I think there was even some comments that they could directly port it and it'd come out ok, with a 5-10% improvement in perf/W.
I'd guess that 12nm is just GF's new 14nm (meaning, there isn't 14nm as it was when Polaris came out, so continuing production of Polaris chips means it has to be 12nm)
Because in order for AMD to design and make Zen architecture they HAD to pull resources from a lot of RTG projects.
No they haven't. If they have then Nvidia has almost as much, as the RTX cards are Nvidia's pro chips, and they never even released a consumer Volta and might not have new mainstream cards before Navi. They rode Pascal for over 2 years and possibly 3 for the mainstream chips.
You're ignoring that the entire industry has slowed because of declining advancements in production processes. So low margin markets are going to slow down.
Well, duh. Vega 20 is not a gaming GPU, it'd be stupid to try and sell it as one, especially if you have a market where you can make more money with the same chip. It probably would be better than Vega 64, but it'll still be stuck, limited by the basic setup of the GPU (and that its locked at the same number of shaders/CUs as Vega 64), plus it'll have a significant portion of the chip wasted on HPC/compute focused pieces (that if they could use for ray-tracing or inferencing, would be tacked on and probably not be impressive), so it could also be somewhat unimpressive in perf/W for gaming.
OEMs are usually fine with a rebadge, up the card designation number and be done with it.You're ignoring that they need to offer something to OEMs. They don't even have to offer something better than the performance those cards already offer, they simply need to have chips/cards available for OEMs.
I can only speak about what I can experience. Let me highlight the mindshare thing, just check out the very first response the guy gets. And BTW, it was me how called out the guy on the matter and therefore he edited his post - so yeah, sure, I'm on NV's payroll.Meh, we've been seeing that type of nonsense for over a decade. Granted yes, mindshare does matter, but plenty of the people saying that type of stuff know jack about anything so anecdotes like that aren't worth anything.
Yep, exactly. IMHO they couldn't believe their eyes when they saw the performance of the Pascal cards and had to act to get the RX cards into the same ballpark performance-wise.AMD pushing clocks out of the efficient range in order to try and offer a bit more performance?
The day AMD takes the performance crown is the day I set my G-Sync monitor on fire and dance around it.
Lol, obvious exaggeration but you get the gist of it. I hate nVidia.Sure you will. Not saying they will....Just that you won't.
Just like all the rome leaksI feel like if AMD had anything remotely competitive, remotely soon to the Turing release we would have seen intentional "leaks" to take a little wind out of the sails, as we have seen many times before. That we see no credible rumors or even really any rumors at all about a Turing competitive AMD GPU tells me they have nothing close to release.