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Conservatives: Do you feel like you're losing the war?

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OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
I'm curious because it would seem to me on the great social issues of the day the United States is inching closer and closer towards progressive/liberal social viewpoints.

In 20 years, do you honestly think we'll still be debating issues like gay rights? Do you really think that Conservatives will be able to hold back social progress on these issues? Or do you think it's merely a matter of time before the dam breaks and Conservatives lose again like they did with segregation?
 
It's politics, it's not a war. In politics you try to convince other citizens what the priorities should be, what needs attention, important issues about freedom and economics. In war you kill people and destroy things. Even a liberal can usually tell the difference.
 
I think conservatives have painted themselves into a corner and it's going to be a painful process getting out of it. The republicans have embraced their extreme side far too much to viably lead the country any more. When I first registered to vote, I registered republican because I felt their ideas fit me better. I very quickly realized their ideals and their practices are two completely different things. That's not to say there aren't democrats like that as well, but the democratic party isn't a homogeneous unit like the republican party is so it's not the same imminent issue as it is with republicans.
 
AyashiKaibutsu said:
I think conservatives have painted themselves into a corner and it's going to be a painful process getting out of it. The republicans have embraced their extreme side far too much to viably lead the country any more. When I first registered to vote, I registered republican because I felt their ideas fit me better. I very quickly realized their ideals and their practices are two completely different things. That's not to say there aren't democrats like that as well, but the democratic party isn't a homogeneous unit like the republican party is so it's not the same imminent issue as it is with republicans.
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Always good to remember that it was the Democrats that fought so hard for segregation and that Abraham Lincoln is, was and always will be a Republican.
 
monovillage said:
Always good to remember that it was the Democrats that fought so hard for segregation and that Abraham Lincoln is, was and always will be a Republican.
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Yea, it's too bad that all died when the Southern Strategy was embraced. We're talking about when the republican party started having major shifts 40-50 years to the present. What republicans were in the past is meaningless compared to what they are in the present.
 
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I'm much more concerned about winning the Conservative and Constitutional fiscal war than social but many times they go hand in hand. There shouldn't be a federal war over most of these things that the left wants to claim the right wants to "ban" - they just aren't part of what the Federal gov't is charged with bothering with. Every time a new "right" is "won" by the left they create a new one so the war really should be on getting the Federal gov't back to the size and scope the Constitution restricted it to.
 
CADsortaGUY said:
I'm much more concerned about winning the Conservative and Constitutional fiscal war than social but many times they go hand in hand. There shouldn't be a federal war over most of these things that the left wants to claim the right wants to "ban" - they just aren't part of what the Federal gov't is charged with bothering with. Every time a new "right" is "won" by the left they create a new one so the war really should be on getting the Federal gov't back to the size and scope the Constitution restricted it to.
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As someone else pointed out marriage brings with it certain federal benefits.

Now you can stfu.
 
monovillage said:
Always good to remember that it was the Democrats that fought so hard for segregation and that Abraham Lincoln is, was and always will be a Republican.
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Always good to see that when someones discussing" the great social issues of the day" someone goes "but...but...1865..."
 
OneOfTheseDays said:
In 20 years, do you honestly think we'll still be debating issues like gay rights? Do you really think that Conservatives will be able to hold back social progress on these issues? Or do you think it's merely a matter of time before the dam breaks and Conservatives lose again like they did with segregation?
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Explain how conservatives lost on segregation.
 
OneOfTheseDays said:
I'm curious because it would seem to me on the great social issues of the day the United States is inching closer and closer towards progressive/liberal social viewpoints.

In 20 years, do you honestly think we'll still be debating issues like gay rights? Do you really think that Conservatives will be able to hold back social progress on these issues? Or do you think it's merely a matter of time before the dam breaks and Conservatives lose again like they did with segregation?
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Why do you think it is Social Progress?
 
I'd like to point to gun rights as an anomaly to your argument. Gun rights have steadily expanded over the last few decades and are continuing to do so. I personally thank mainstream video games.

But for the more mainstream social issues, yes conservatism is losing. As it should. Many of the social views they triumph are obsolete and function less efficiently as a society than their modernized counterparts.
 
I really dont think most liberals give a shit about spidey having a pile of weapons in his basement.

Its a wedge issue to get conservatives out and voting. The best thing the liberals could od would be to concede every point of gun ownership to the conservatives then they would only have to worry about prochoice rights
 
It's actually kind of nice that there is no official gay marriage, so companies are creating policies that accommodate non-married cohabitation.
Got the girlfriend covered under domestic partner policy at work.
In this case, the opposition to gay marriage is actually making "shacking up" a legitimate lifestyle that is recognized by employers for all couples, including straight 🙂
 
OneOfTheseDays said:
I'm curious because it would seem to me on the great social issues of the day the United States is inching closer and closer towards progressive/liberal social viewpoints.

In 20 years, do you honestly think we'll still be debating issues like gay rights? Do you really think that Conservatives will be able to hold back social progress on these issues? Or do you think it's merely a matter of time before the dam breaks and Conservatives lose again like they did with segregation?
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Gay rights is a non event, we all know and agree with where it is heading in 20 years.

The structure of our government and its centralization / abuse of power / destruction of the Bill of Rights is far more crucial. We're turning into North Korea and not enough people care because the Fox is guarding the Hen House.

When your life depends on their handouts they'll tell you to lick their boots and you'll gladly ask 'how shiny?' When the Fox eats the Hen next door you'll happily cluck that it wasn't you. You'll root and cheer cause golly, that one sure was annoying. When its teeth are around your neck is the moment you'll think twice, it'll also be far too late.
 
monovillage said:
wtf do you care? Try getting a vote on your EU referendum if you want to do something useful.
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WTF has the EU got to do with this?

It was an interesting discussion and conservatism exists all over the world, and is faced with the same problems, ie how to remain relevant in a modernising world.

They usually fall back to the "but in 1865" or "OMG youre brown/yellow/a foreigner/a commie what do you know" arguments unfortunately.
 
Jaskalas said:
Gay rights is a non event, we all know and agree with where it is heading in 20 years.

The structure of our government and its centralization / abuse of power / destruction of the Bill of Rights is far more crucial. We're turning into North Korea and not enough people care because the Fox is guarding the Hen House.

When your life depends on their handouts they'll tell you to lick their boots and you'll gladly ask 'how shiny?' When the Fox eats the Hen next door you'll happily cluck that it wasn't you. You'll root and cheer cause golly, that one sure was annoying. When its teeth are around your neck is the moment you'll think twice, it'll also be far too late.
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Whether the right is winning or losing their various arguments, I definitely don't see you convincing a lot of people with such ridiculous exaggeration. I can't help but feel that conservative arguments on economic policies would have a lot more success if they didn't rely on convincing people that Obama is a commi-nazi socialist secret Muslim North Korean Marxist.
 
monovillage said:
It's politics, it's not a war. In politics you try to convince other citizens what the priorities should be, what needs attention, important issues about freedom and economics. In war you kill people and destroy things. Even a liberal can usually tell the difference.
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I don't think it's a war, but it's not just the kind of politics you describe either. There is very little attempt at convincing people compared to the amount of time spent preaching to the choir. And you don't have to listen to commentators very long before it becomes pretty obvious that they really do view people with different views as the enemy. The idea that we're just reasonably debating important issues only lasts until you hear some conservatives hoping San Francisco gets attacked by terrorists because the city is very liberal (and there are liberal examples as well).

This may not be an actual war, but it's not exactly the Lincoln Douglas debate either.
 
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