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Confirmed - i9 9900k will have soldered IHS, no more toothpaste TIM

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Innokentij

Senior member
Jan 14, 2014
237
7
81
O yes, can't wait for this bad boy i9 9900K! Got me some G skill 3200 CL14 Samsung B die ram 32GB DDR4 just collecting dust for a month while i wait for it and new motherboard. Pairing that with 2080TI and going straight to top on 3dmark benches. Can't wait to OC GPU,CPU and RAM. Gonna be sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. Haters gonna hate yolo.
 

skaertus

Senior member
Mar 20, 2010
212
28
91
So be specific. What are you "disappointed" about? What do you want from this release? 10 cores, 12, 50? 6 ghz turbo? 300.00 price? Yes, the price is higher than AMD, but by all expectations, so is the performance. And just look at the other components of a build. You think 450.00 is expensive for a cpu? How about 1200.00 for a top end gpu? Honestly for a top end build, another hundred dollars for the cpu over Ryzen is a drop in the bucket.
Considering we are coming from the current 8th gen, a more reasonable 9th gen would be something like this:

Core i9-9900K, 10-core, 20-thread, 3.5-3.6 GHz base clock, USD 450
Core i7-9700K, 8-core, 16-thread, 3.6 GHz base clock, USD 350
Core i7-9700, 8-core, 16-thread, 3.0-3.1 GHz base clock, USD 300
Core i5-9600K, 6-core, 12-thread, 3.6-3.7 GHz base clock, USD 250
Core i5-9600, 6-core, 12-thread, 3.1 GHz base clock, TBD
Core i5-9500, 6-core, 12-thread, 3.0 GHz base clock, TBD
Core i5-9400, 6-core, 12-thread, 2.8-2.9 GHz base clock, TBD
Core i5-9400T, 6-core, 12-thread, 1.7-.1.8 GHz base clock, TBD
Core i3-9350K, 4-core, 8-thread, 4.0 GHz base clock, TBD
Core i3-9100, 4-core, 8-thread, 3.7 GHz base clock, TBD
Core i3-9000T, 4-core, 8-thread, 3.2 GHz base clock, TBD

It's not whether USD 450 is expensive or not. Intel could charge USD 1,000 if it wanted to, I do not care. But if you look down on the specifications of the line-up so far, you will see that:

(i) There seems to be no Core i7-9700, so no i7 version without an unlocked multiplier (which increases the minimum price for the i7 desktop);
(ii) The i5-9600K and the i5-8600K seem very similar, with a difference of 100 MHz of base clock speed, and 200 MHz in turbo speed with all cores working;
(iii) The i5-9600, i5-9500, and i5-9400 are virtually identical to their 8th gen counterparts, with minimal difference in speed, of about 100 MHz or so; and
(iv) The i3 line-up is identical.

So, the i9-9900K may be shiny and good, and everything, and some people may even find it a "bargain" for USD 450. But the rest of the line-up is not so much. Intel seems to be taking away the i7 with no unlocked multiplier, and only increasing very marginally the speed of most of the processors.

As for the GPU, the GeForce RTX 2080 is definitely a rip-off, but at least it seems to offer a huge performance improvement over the GTX 1080.
 
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LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,523
1,570
126
Rumor is that Intel will not use HT on desktop anymore except on i9 chips.
i3 4/4
i5 6/6
i7 8/8
i9 8/16
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
1,540
106
Rumor is that Intel will not use HT on desktop anymore except on i9 chips.
i3 4/4
i5 6/6
i7 8/8
i9 8/16

Having HT on and off at each step is just too many SKUs with too much overlap. To simplify you need to to be all on, or all off, except at the bottom (if all on elsewhere - How AMD does it) or at the top (If all off elsewhere, like Intel is reportedly doing it).

It potentially leaves Intel one more move next year if they don't have a beneficial architecture/process advance. Then can ditch the i9 name on desktop, and offer:

Pentium 4/4
i3 4/8
i5 6/12
i7 8/16
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
1,540
106
The cynic says no HT because it makes patching the various Meltdown/Spectre/Foreshadow exploits that much easier.
There is still HT on high end, and on laptops, and Pentiums, and Xeons...

IOW, it's everywhere, so it doesn't really support that cynical view.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,883
5,843
136
So be specific. What are you "disappointed" about?
The only things disappointing about the i9-9900k is that they're 14nm (again) and that they aren't Ice Lake.

I don't know if it's that Intel's rehashing of 14nm Skylake variants is depressing, or if it goes to show that the enthusiast desktop has so little to gain from die shrinks these days.
 

Borealis7

Platinum Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,756
101
106
At first, I too was disappointed that an i7 no longer has HT, but then I started thinking about it and I realized the 9700K does not need HT to be a top gaming CPU in it's price range.
I'm using a 7700K as i write this post - 4C/8T and it's a great gaming CPU. I believe 8C is the sweet spot these days, and I that don't need 16 or more cores for gaming. What I do need is higher frequency (turbo or OC). So, I'd rather Intel spend the power budget on higher frequency for gaming chips (or give us the OC head room on unlocked chips) over cramming in more cores on a CPU that will likely not utilize them fully.
If I was in the market for a CPU and money was no object, i'd go for the 9700K and not the 9900K because it will surely be easier to cool and OC better.
 

arandomguy

Senior member
Sep 3, 2013
531
148
116
Supposed 9th Gen Prices in Singapore Dollars(SGD)
.
Assuming the prices include GST (7%) that would mean the price + GST in USD is $483.57, removing that 7% GST gives us SG$622.43 (666/1.07) or US$451.89
Isn't it better for foreign price listings to compare relative prices instead of using direct conversion?

The same site lists the i7-8700k as 543 which could mean the 9700k will be cheaper than the 8700k.
 

Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,192
2,181
136
Isn't it better for foreign price listings to compare relative prices instead of using direct conversion?

The same site lists the i7-8700k as 543 which could mean the 9700k will be cheaper than the 8700k.
At those prices 9700K looks like the best bang for the buck for most workloads
 
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scannall

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,764
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Again, not the way business operates. It isn't the epic fan battle that we see in forums. It's all spreadsheets for profit maximization.

So I guess you will be shocked if Desktop Ryzen 3000 series has only 8 cores. Lets put a pin in that and see what happens.
I think 8 cores is most likely for the Desktop/Consumer 3000 series. Adding more complexity to the IF and topology adds more power consumption, and lowers max clocks.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,883
5,843
136
Nah, just that 14++++++++++++++++++++ at work.
Speaking of that: Intel allegedly has 14nm supply problems. I don't know if it's a wafer shortage, or too many customers/too few dice, or Intel relying too heavily on binning to hit performance targets from 14nm++/+++, or whatever.

Looks like the 9900k is shaping up to be 8c/16t @ 5.1 GHz (I had thought 5.3 GHz but eh whatever). Can Intel supply enough chips with these specs to meet market demand? The 8700k was already a paper launch last October, with a one-month lag until broad availability. Are we going to see the same from the 9900k? Or worse?
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,250
1,839
136
Speaking of that: Intel allegedly has 14nm supply problems. I don't know if it's a wafer shortage, or too many customers/too few dice, or Intel relying too heavily on binning to hit performance targets from 14nm++/+++, or whatever.
It's actually very easy to guess.

The answer? XMM 7560.

The XMM 7560 is an LTE modem using Intel's 14nm process. It goes into Apple's latest X series iPhones. Supposedly Intel is the sole supplier for the LTE modem.

That means, Intel needs to supply something like 200 million XMM 7560s to Apple. Considering the power Apple has over its suppliers, that likely needs to be guaranteed. Sacrificing a low end of a chipset to get that order working is a trivial deal. Needing to continue making 14nm CPUs just adds fuel to the fire.

200 million chips, even if the die size is pretty small at say 50mm2, are an absolutely enormous amount. If you assume Intel's average die size is 100mm2 and they sell ~250 million chips, Apple orders are going to take 30% of their entire wafer supply. Since the predecessor 7460 was on TSMC 28nm, that means this generation, they need to increase supply by 30% just for Apple.

Sources claim the next gen LTE modem, the 7660, was targeted at the 10nm process. I wonder if that has anything to do with the 10nm problems as well?
 
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StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,542
462
126
Hardware Unboxed have the 9900k already, they showed it to the camera in their 2080 review. Won't release the benchmarks until mid October apparently.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,719
2,003
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It's actually very easy to guess.

The answer? XMM 7560.

The XMM 7560 is an LTE modem using Intel's 14nm process. It goes into Apple's latest X series iPhones. Supposedly Intel is the sole supplier for the LTE modem.

That means, Intel needs to supply something like 200 million XMM 7560s to Apple. Considering the power Apple has over its suppliers, that likely needs to be guaranteed. Sacrificing a low end of a chipset to get that order working is a trivial deal. Needing to continue making 14nm CPUs just adds fuel to the fire.

200 million chips, even if the die size is pretty small at say 50mm2, are an absolutely enormous amount. If you assume Intel's average die size is 100mm2 and they sell ~250 million chips, Apple orders are going to take 30% of their entire wafer supply. Since the predecessor 7460 was on TSMC 28nm, that means this generation, they need to increase supply by 30% just for Apple.

Sources claim the next gen LTE modem, the 7660, was targeted at the 10nm process. I wonder if that has anything to do with the 10nm problems as well?
Apple doesn't sell 200 million of the latest model in a year, FWIW.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,250
1,839
136
Apple doesn't sell 200 million of the latest model in a year, FWIW.
They might not, but Apple devices have a user base that upgrades rapidly and their older models are quickly deprecated. Also they have a halo status among smartphones.

A report suggests iPhone 8 and X generation took 50% of total iPhones sold in its first year! That makes it more dramatic considering that they launch towards end of the year in Fall. By year end we might see it taking 65-75% of total phones sold.

It doesn't change the overall picture Intel will be very supply bound. And if they decide to use 10nm for XMM 7660 they need to make that much of them for Apple.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,883
5,843
136
It's actually very easy to guess.

The answer? XMM 7560.
Oh hell. They're sharing fab space between those modems and Xeons, HEDT CPUs, and desktop CPUs? Are they crazy?

Hardware Unboxed have the 9900k already, they showed it to the camera in their 2080 review. Won't release the benchmarks until mid October apparently.
Mid October? I thought the chip was supposed to launch in limited quantities (at least) in early October, e.g. one year after the 8700k. Somethin funny goin on there.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
3,387
2,332
136
Can almost make you believe in corporate karma. Not only is anything that can go wrong doing so, but its happening simultaneously.
 

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