Comments from within, May 1st rallies/boycott

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Amused
Did I read all that?

Yes.

Did it change my mind?

No.

Don't come here illegally and you wont be treated like a criminal.

It really is that simple.

It's really not that simple, just b/c you commit a crime, doesn't mean you should be treated like a criminal. It's not that black & white.

Actually, yes, it is. Immigration laws exist for a reason. Illegal immigration is NOT a victimless crime.

No one pretends it is, but neither is speeding.

And excessive speeders should be faced with stiff fines and increased insurance rates, i.e., treated like criminals. Habitual speeders should lose their license, i.e., treated like criminals. People who drive without a license should be fined and jailed, i.e., treated like criminals.

Exactly, the very low % of lawbreakers who make it an extreme crime should be treated like criminals. So why do you auctomatically want to make every illegal immigrant a felon. Again, it isn't so black & white.

Again, yes, it is. They are breaking the law, hence the "Illegal" part of the phrase "illegal immigrant." Obviously our current laws and justice system in this area do nothing to discourage people from breaking them.

Silly argument. Our current laws on legal immigration and the broken "system" are contributing factors to this mess. The current system encourages ILLEGAL immigration, and makes legal immigration a very tough thing to do. No one cares about fixing a broke system, they just want to make it about "enforcing the law." Much like the law that made 1 gram of crack equal to 100 grams of Cocaine? Gee, how much crack can you make with 100 grams of Cocaine? :roll:

Acting as if our system doesn't encourage certain types of malfeasance is silly, and equally silly is suggesting that the letter of the law be "followed" in a broken system. Saying this is a black & white issue is just simply scandalous on your part. I've always found it funny that you are a libertarian, but that you always are big on government and the law when it comes to certain conservative issues. Smoking ordinances elicit more mistrust of the government by you than the Iraq War or immigration policy. I find that sad. Not because you don't mistrust the government, but because it shows where your heart lies. Firmly entrenched in the neo-con hegemony and masquerading as a Libertarian. Where's your liberty and freedom spiel when it comes to these immigrants?

Everyone wants to act as if they are against all illegal immigrants, but that is simply NOT the case. You can argue that Mexicans are discussing the most because they are high in number, but I never EVER EVER EVER see anything about Eastern Europeans or Asians when it comes to discussing immigration policy. Or even Canadians...

Let's get real on this issue. Maybe 10% of people are really opposed to "illegal immigration" and the other 90% are just plain opposed to Hispanics. If the opposite were true, then the Minutemen would be checking ships on the LA Coast, tracking down student visa holders, and be doing something other than sitting by the Mexican border. It also doesn't help when the average "anti-illegal" protester is Jed, and Jed's white sheet just happens to be in the wash...

Amused? Did you care to respond, or can you not?

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: SampSon
These people need to file legal immigration papers and wait in line like everyone else.
I do not understand how they can even begin to justify how they deserve to just walk into this country and become a citizen.

Why is it that people expect America to have wide open borders and easy entry, while other countries have strict immigration laws?

These "immigrants" need to follow the laws (wether they like it or not, and how bad their current situation in their own country doesn't mean sh!t), they need to assimilate into American culture (creating a spanish american national anthem is a total insult), they need to drop their ridiculous sense of entitlement (you don't deserve a goddamned thing from this country), they need to stop claiming that we NEED them to do work, they need to play the game fair or get the fvck out.

:beer:

 

[SilentZero]

Those that come here illegally should not be given amnesty...period! If you came here illegally...you should go back where you came from and do it the right way. I am all for much tougher immigration policies, and think that these idiotic protests only serve to isolate illegal immigrants more. I am a democrat, but for once side with the republicans.

The whole point of the immigration problem also extends to national security. We must secure our borders by any means we can, and treat anyone here illegally as a fugitive.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Mike

Originally posted by: Amused
Did I read all that?

Yes.

Did it change my mind?

No.

Don't come here illegally and you wont be treated like a criminal.

It really is that simple.

It's really not that simple, just b/c you commit a crime, doesn't mean you should be treated like a criminal. It's not that black & white.

Actually, yes, it is. Immigration laws exist for a reason. Illegal immigration is NOT a victimless crime.

No one pretends it is, but neither is speeding.

And excessive speeders should be faced with stiff fines and increased insurance rates, i.e., treated like criminals. Habitual speeders should lose their license, i.e., treated like criminals. People who drive without a license should be fined and jailed, i.e., treated like criminals.

Exactly, the very low % of lawbreakers who make it an extreme crime should be treated like criminals. So why do you auctomatically want to make every illegal immigrant a felon. Again, it isn't so black & white.

Again, yes, it is. They are breaking the law, hence the "Illegal" part of the phrase "illegal immigrant." Obviously our current laws and justice system in this area do nothing to discourage people from breaking them.

Silly argument. Our current laws on legal immigration and the broken "system" are contributing factors to this mess. The current system encourages ILLEGAL immigration, and makes legal immigration a very tough thing to do. No one cares about fixing a broke system, they just want to make it about "enforcing the law." Much like the law that made 1 gram of crack equal to 100 grams of Cocaine? Gee, how much crack can you make with 100 grams of Cocaine? :roll:

Acting as if our system doesn't encourage certain types of malfeasance is silly, and equally silly is suggesting that the letter of the law be "followed" in a broken system. Saying this is a black & white issue is just simply scandalous on your part. I've always found it funny that you are a libertarian, but that you always are big on government and the law when it comes to certain conservative issues. Smoking ordinances elicit more mistrust of the government by you than the Iraq War or immigration policy. I find that sad. Not because you don't mistrust the government, but because it shows where your heart lies. Firmly entrenched in the neo-con hegemony and masquerading as a Libertarian. Where's your liberty and freedom spiel when it comes to these immigrants?

Everyone wants to act as if they are against all illegal immigrants, but that is simply NOT the case. You can argue that Mexicans are discussing the most because they are high in number, but I never EVER EVER EVER see anything about Eastern Europeans or Asians when it comes to discussing immigration policy. Or even Canadians...

Let's get real on this issue. Maybe 10% of people are really opposed to "illegal immigration" and the other 90% are just plain opposed to Hispanics. If the opposite were true, then the Minutemen would be checking ships on the LA Coast, tracking down student visa holders, and be doing something other than sitting by the Mexican border. It also doesn't help when the average "anti-illegal" protester is Jed, and Jed's white sheet just happens to be in the wash...

Awesome post Mill. :thumbsup:

 

[Kelemvor]

The part that cracks me up about the dumbass illegal immigrants is they use oen argument that says they have all the jobs tha tno one else wants and what would we do if they all got kicked out. THey mean they have jobs like janitors, cleaning people, etc.

Then they have a protest/boycott because they want to show how much financial power they have in this country.

I'm sorry but janitors and cleaning people don't make enough to have much of an affect on anything by having a boycott one day. This is just like the stupid "don't buy gas on Tuesday" threads. The news here had all kinds of people storming the stoers the day before to shop beacuse they didn't want to shop the next day. Umm, hello. You're still spendin gjust as much, just on a different day. WTF good does that do anyone? I guess it just goes to show how uneucated the illegals really are.

Solution One should be to make them all citizens so they start paying taxes like everyone else. Imagine how much more money that would bring into the governemnt. Solution Two shoudl be to get them all out of here and then cut most people off Welfare and say "There, we just freed up millions of jobs for you. Now go get one you lazy bums". Kills 2 birds with oen stone. heh.

But what I really don't understand is what part of ILLEGAL do people not understand? COme here legally like the millions of other people and you'll be fine. COme here illegally and you deserve to get sent home for breaking the law. Jsut because you've been breaking the law every day for years doesn't mean you're exempt from it. I could just go rob a store every day for the next 10 years and then say that I'm exempt because I've been doing it for so long. Yeah right.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
(Don't care) x (infinity)


Just another one of Bush's smoke screens to take the focus off of Iraq.

I do care about this issue but I agree with you 110% about the bolded. Immigration is the new gay marriage!!

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
(Don't care) x (infinity)


Just another one of Bush's smoke screens to take the focus off of Iraq.

I do care about this issue but I agree with you 110% about the bolded. Immigration is the new gay marriage!!

So Rove and Bush are behind the socialist/communist organizations, unions, Catholic Churches, Latino Radio Stations organizing all these massive protests?

Sneaky bastards.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
(Don't care) x (infinity)


Just another one of Bush's smoke screens to take the focus off of Iraq.

I do care about this issue but I agree with you 110% about the bolded. Immigration is the new gay marriage!!

So Rove and Bush are behind the socialist/communist organizations, unions, Catholic Churches, Latino Radio Stations organizing all these massive protests?

Sneaky bastards.

Funny how these anti Bush zealots hold dear the contradictory beliefs that Bush is dumber than a rock while at the same time he is such a brilliant politician that he can pull off things like organizing the illegal immigration issue as a misdirection for Iraq. I guess they missed the part where Bush has actually taken positions more closely aligned with the protestors than the prevailing political sentiment in the country.

 

[altonb1]

Originally posted by: darianandre
9.Am I fired? Will update later.
Update: I was not fired, our contract states that they can't fire me for not showing up, but they did enforce the voluntary quit rule, so I am out of a job.

Go pick veggies, then. Americans won't do those jobs...

Illegal is illegal. If you come in illegally, you should be deported once caught. I don't care your country of origin nor your nationality--send the illegals home.

Actually, the rally could be used to gather them all up in one easy swoop...

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
(Don't care) x (infinity)


Just another one of Bush's smoke screens to take the focus off of Iraq.

I do care about this issue but I agree with you 110% about the bolded. Immigration is the new gay marriage!!

So Rove and Bush are behind the socialist/communist organizations, unions, Catholic Churches, Latino Radio Stations organizing all these massive protests?

Sneaky bastards.

Funny how these anti Bush zealots hold dear the contradictory beliefs that Bush is dumber than a rock while at the same time he is such a brilliant politician that he can pull off things like organizing the illegal immigration issue as a misdirection for Iraq. I guess they missed the part where Bush has actually taken positions more closely aligned with the protestors than the prevailing political sentiment in the country.

oh my god what have you two been smoking? is it really that hard to see the point we were trying to make? Is Bush calling all the shots HELL NO. But lets take a step and look back at what has happened here.

Iraq
Oil
Economy
*insert your latest administration gaffle/goof up here* No wait, let me do it for you since it appears we need to take you every step of the way

Plame/Leaks/Rove/Libby/Cheney/Fitz
Katrina
Cheney shooting a man in the face
9/11 reports (or LACK THEREOF)
Wiretapping (I almost forgot that one)
Taxbreaks
Foreign Policy (Iran)
I could go on.....!!

there is a whole laundry list of things that we should be addressing now. Instead, we are wrapped up in illegal immigration.

why? Who proposed and sponsored the house bill that started this whole mess? that is all I am saying. This is not the work of one corrupt man (Bush) but many...

could you be anymore dense????

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
(Don't care) x (infinity)


Just another one of Bush's smoke screens to take the focus off of Iraq.

I do care about this issue but I agree with you 110% about the bolded. Immigration is the new gay marriage!!

So Rove and Bush are behind the socialist/communist organizations, unions, Catholic Churches, Latino Radio Stations organizing all these massive protests?

Sneaky bastards.

Funny how these anti Bush zealots hold dear the contradictory beliefs that Bush is dumber than a rock while at the same time he is such a brilliant politician that he can pull off things like organizing the illegal immigration issue as a misdirection for Iraq. I guess they missed the part where Bush has actually taken positions more closely aligned with the protestors than the prevailing political sentiment in the country.

oh my god what have you two been smoking? is it really that hard to see the point we were trying to make? Is Bush calling all the shots HELL NO. But lets take a step and look back at what has happened here.

Iraq
Oil
Economy
*insert your latest administration gaffle/goof up here* No wait, let me do it for you since it appears we need to take you every step of the way

Plame/Leaks/Rove/Libby/Cheney/Fitz
Katrina
Cheney shooting a man in the face
9/11 reports (or LACK THEREOF)
Wiretapping (I almost forgot that one)
Taxbreaks
Foreign Policy (Iran)
I could go on.....!!

there is a whole laundry list of things that we should be addressing now. Instead, we are wrapped up in illegal immigration.

why? Who proposed and sponsored the house bill that started this whole mess? that is all I am saying. This is not the work of one corrupt man (Bush) but many...

could you be anymore dense????

Ummm....Bush has nothing to do with the House bill (You know, seperation of powers and all that). That is Sensenbrenner(sp).

In actuality, Bush is proposing nothing short of amnesty for all the illegal aliens in the country. I find the ironing delicious in the fact that these illegal alien protests actually are protesting against Bush when he wants to give them what they want. If they had kept their mouths shut they probably would have gotten it too. Instead, they've been waving their Mexican flags and shoving their illegality in our faces...which results in Sensenbrenner's bill.

The two biggest news stories right now are illegal aliens/immigrants and oil prices. Bush has no control over that....free press and all that.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
(Don't care) x (infinity)


Just another one of Bush's smoke screens to take the focus off of Iraq.

This gets the Stupidiest Post in the Thread award.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
(Don't care) x (infinity)


Just another one of Bush's smoke screens to take the focus off of Iraq.

This gets the Stupidiest Post in the Thread award.

Yea I agree.

This is obviously a big problem facing ALL legal Americans Republican or Democrat

 

[Ricemarine]

Since when was there a rally at Seattle?...

If there was I didn't know about it cause it wasn't on komo 4 :laugh:

 

[intogamer]

So you are protesting that illegal immrigrants should be legal?

They are illegal for a reason

You just have to go through the naturalization process right? or just settle in canada

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
(Don't care) x (infinity)


Just another one of Bush's smoke screens to take the focus off of Iraq.

I do care about this issue but I agree with you 110% about the bolded. Immigration is the new gay marriage!!

So Rove and Bush are behind the socialist/communist organizations, unions, Catholic Churches, Latino Radio Stations organizing all these massive protests?

Sneaky bastards.

Funny how these anti Bush zealots hold dear the contradictory beliefs that Bush is dumber than a rock while at the same time he is such a brilliant politician that he can pull off things like organizing the illegal immigration issue as a misdirection for Iraq. I guess they missed the part where Bush has actually taken positions more closely aligned with the protestors than the prevailing political sentiment in the country.

oh my god what have you two been smoking? is it really that hard to see the point we were trying to make? Is Bush calling all the shots HELL NO. But lets take a step and look back at what has happened here.

Iraq
Oil
Economy
*insert your latest administration gaffle/goof up here* No wait, let me do it for you since it appears we need to take you every step of the way

Plame/Leaks/Rove/Libby/Cheney/Fitz
Katrina
Cheney shooting a man in the face
9/11 reports (or LACK THEREOF)
Wiretapping (I almost forgot that one)
Taxbreaks
Foreign Policy (Iran)
I could go on.....!!

there is a whole laundry list of things that we should be addressing now. Instead, we are wrapped up in illegal immigration.

why? Who proposed and sponsored the house bill that started this whole mess? that is all I am saying. This is not the work of one corrupt man (Bush) but many...

could you be anymore dense????

Ummm....Bush has nothing to do with the House bill (You know, seperation of powers and all that). That is Sensenbrenner(sp).

In actuality, Bush is proposing nothing short of amnesty for all the illegal aliens in the country. I find the ironing delicious in the fact that these illegal alien protests actually are protesting against Bush when he wants to give them what they want. If they had kept their mouths shut they probably would have gotten it too. Instead, they've been waving their Mexican flags and shoving their illegality in our faces...which results in Sensenbrenner's bill.

The two biggest news stories right now are illegal aliens/immigrants and oil prices. Bush has no control over that....free press and all that.

you do not get it.

It was the House bill which started this fiasco, not the other way around.

I am not blaming Bush so much as I am blaming a corrupt one party that is in control system. But since we all know where the, "Buck Stops" Bush will be in the hot seat until he is out of the office, so he gets to bare the lions share of the blame.

Oh and I forgot to mention a couple of other things we as a country should rather be up in arms about, so add these to my lists above:

-Abramoff scandal
-Delay scandal
-Oh and does anybody care about Diebold machines anymore?

But dont you see? this is how our politicians work! We all suffer from the same godamm short attention span these days we do ourselves a great disservice by failing to follow through and hold them accountable to us as a voting public.

we forget, we get distracted (which is what I think this immigration thing is really all about but you obviously disagree) and we get bowled over until the next scandal comes along and it starts all over again. God I wish America would wake the fvck up.

 

[Xcobra]

Originally posted by: Svnla
OP, very well written post.

As a first generation legal immigrant myself, I have mixed feeling about what going on in the last month or so about immigration.

I understand and sympathy of why people south of the border are coming here. I have been there and done that. We all want opportunities to better ourselves and families.

I just have one comment. Why people think they have the right to jump ahead of the long line of legal immigration process just because they live right next to the US? Other people from other continents have to wait for years, not year, but YEARS, to get here legally. It is a very hard and time consuming process. It took us over 10 years just to get my sisters here and we are not done yet.

you seriously have no idea, though you say you have "been there done that". its not as simple as you put it. most people that come here legally are able to do so because they have someboday that can help (i.e. someone whos are already here LEGALLY) which is how i got here. It is more difficult for poor people back in Mexico, el salvador, guatemala, etc. to be able to go through the legal process (either cuz they have no money or have little education to know how to do it). Trust me ive been there and taken that into account. most illegal immigrants have little education and dont have any one to support them. So no, they dont do it cuz they want to "jump ahead" of everyone else, its cuz they are in NECESSITY and need to survive and im sure you werent in the same situation. Just pointing that out, cuz just because they "jump ahead" of waiting legal immigrants doesnt necessarily mean that they have the advantage.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Mill

Everyone wants to act as if they are against all illegal immigrants, but that is simply NOT the case. You can argue that Mexicans are discussing the most because they are high in number, but I never EVER EVER EVER see anything about Eastern Europeans or Asians when it comes to discussing immigration policy. Or even Canadians...

Let's get real on this issue. Maybe 10% of people are really opposed to "illegal immigration" and the other 90% are just plain opposed to Hispanics. If the opposite were true, then the Minutemen would be checking ships on the LA Coast, tracking down student visa holders, and be doing something other than sitting by the Mexican border. It also doesn't help when the average "anti-illegal" protester is Jed, and Jed's white sheet just happens to be in the wash...

How many illegals actually come in on ships or out-stay their student visas. Yes something should be done about those too, but why would you waste man power nit-picking through those, when you got a flood of them coming across the border. Its like if you had a dam that had some small leaks and one major leak, which are you going to address first?

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: Xcobra
you seriously have no idea, though you say you have "been there done that". its not as simple as you put it. most people that come here legally are able to do so because they have someboday that can help (i.e. someone whos are already here LEGALLY) which is how i got here. It is more difficult for poor people back in Mexico, el salvador, guatemala, etc. to be able to go through the legal process (either cuz they have no money or have little education to know how to do it). Trust me ive been there and taken that into account. most illegal immigrants have little education and dont have any one to support them. So no, they dont do it cuz they want to "jump ahead" of everyone else, its cuz they are in NECESSITY and need to survive and im sure you werent in the same situation. Just pointing that out, cuz just because they "jump ahead" of waiting legal immigrants doesnt necessarily mean that they have the advantage.

First of all, our family came here without any help <nobody was here before us>. My dad used to work for the US government, that's how we got in legally.

They <folks from south of the US border> have the advantage of "close to or shorter distance". It is easier for them to travel by land to go to the US than other folks from other continents <Asia, Africa, Europe, Australia, and the like>. I am not saying the trip would be a cake walk but it is easier than by small boats. I know because I was one of the boatpeople that you saw on the news a few years ago.

You said that I have no idea? I barely survived the trip across the ocean by small boat <ocean sickness/diease/crowed and packed like sardines> then the crowed refugee camp, the hunger <barely had enough food to eat>, the thirst of not enough clean water, the heat, various hardships, you name it, I experienced it first hand while I was just a little kid. That's why I said "been there, done that". It was not like I jumped into an airplane and flied over here in first class. And don't let me start of how I began my humble life from the bottom crawling up in the US, that will be another long story.

Like I said in my previous post in this thread, I understand and symphathy why folks are coming here illegally. If their living conditions weren't so bad, most of them would not risk their lives to get here.

But the bottom line is, WHEN WILL IT STOP? We can't just sweep this under the rug and pretend all are well. What kind of nation or security condition will it be if we don't address it? If we give citizenship or amnesty to those folks that are here illegally, what kind of message we send to those folks that are waiting for YEARS to get in the legal way? What kind of message that we will send to those that want to come here illegally? "Oh come on in, as long as you can sneak pass our wide open border, you are good to go"?

I mentioned some suggestions in my previous post and I am sure it is just a small step. I don't have all the answers but I know that we can't let this goes on forever.

One question for you, the OP, and people that are from South/Central America. What do you suggest we should do to solve this problem?